|
The walls of Minas Tirith had trebuchets, which can hurl much larger objects. Makes it much more likely to hit a siege tower or kill many more people. Kinda liked how in the movies the trebuchets were hurling like large chunks of city walls that had maybe crumbled or were left over from the building of the city or something.
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 13:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 14:46 |
|
|
Data Graham posted:Interesting They were also used to toss things over walls, like the severed heads of your enemy as psychological warfare, poo poo on fire, or diseased corpses in an early form of biological warfare.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 13:09
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:Interesting They were mostly used for removing the crenellations and soldiers from the walls. I don't know if they ever actually knocked walls down.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 13:16
|
|
|
The same as cannons on a Napoleonic battlefield. The Romans used artillery (catapults, ballistae) in field battles for a thousand years. They are very effective against heavily armored or massed infantry even outside the context of a siege.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 13:19
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:Interesting Counterbattery was absolutely a thing, and there's plenty of fortifications to reduce on the sieging army's side as well. I can't recall reading anything about anti-infantry use for trebuchet specifically.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 13:20
|
|
|
Tolkien implies there was some kind of artillery on the walls of Minas Tirith but that the besieging army had bigger and better ones. I don’t think he ever specifies what type of machine they were using. Data Graham posted:Interesting Defensive artillery is pretty effective as a deterrent. You probably can’t really count on precise aim but if the enemy is trying to take the city by storm, they do have to gather en masse inside your range to do it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 13:24
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:Interesting trebuchets weren't mobile, and other siege engines weren't very fast either, so even if your engines weren't very accurate, your enemy couldn't start dodging their missiles and as mossyfisk said, the siegers often had their own fortifications
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 13:45
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:It occurs to me that things like catapults are almost exclusively offensive weaponry, and ever since the Last Alliance the Good Guys have been almost 100% on the defensive. It got them pretty far til Sauron tricked them into attacking God. Numenor's army at its height was so impressive that Sauron's servants said "nah gently caress this I'm out" and left him alone. Unfortunately they decided to make Sauron into an advisor afterwards and yeah.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 14:49
|
|
|
Yeah, it was kind of the hubris I was meaning to allude to there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 15:00
|
|
|
ChubbyChecker posted:no, they can be, and also were used historically as defensive weapons in sieges Kingdom of Heaven has them used by the defenders of Jerusalem, and
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 16:12
|
|
|
Trebuchets are a bit much for defensive artillery. Historically it was far more likely to be things like ballistae mounted on the walls so you could harass people with big scary arrows at a range they can't return fire from. . Most actual fortified towns or fortresses just would not have had enough room to sacrifice for huge defensive artillery like trebuchets. it takes up a bunch of space that can be homes, armories, etc. Minas Tirith on the other hand absolutely can find space for them, especially with the multiple sets of walls allowing for extreme ranges to be reached. As they are shown in the movie, if you knew the ranges you could certainly use them to cause a bunch of mayhem as no one LIKES having to worry about big rocks falling from the sky and then bouncing or roiling through formations.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
Just rows and rows of ballistae like it's the end of Game of Thrones.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 17:49
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:Interesting Historically catapults were often used in defense, and they weren't particularly effective at knocking down walls. They were arguably more effective in defense used to throw debris and burning pitch at advancing enemies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 18:00
|
|
|
They were good for knocking down hoardings and crenellations that provided cover for men on top of the walls. Then you could shoot them with arrows.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2021 20:22
|
|
|
It’s been years since I read The Alexiad, but it covers heaps of sieges and Anna Komnena has the habit of vaguely referring to "engines" and leaving it at that.Zopotantor posted:Kingdom of Heaven has them used by the defenders of Jerusalem, and It's an incredible siege scene, anyway. I'll have to watch it again.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2021 00:47
|
|
|
Was watching The Green Knight tonight in which Sean Harris plays the king, and I think he would've made a better Aragorn than Vigo. I love Vigo and he was good as Strider but I never bought him when he was supposed to look regal. Harris can look scruffy too but he cleans up better as a king. And 
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2021 03:05
|
|
|
Yeah he was a good Strider and not-as-good Elessar.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2021 03:24
|
|
|
I like how in the movies Theoden isn't just stupid and old he's actually magically enchanted and instead of getting invigorated by fresh air and sunshine he's revived by Gandalf magic.
Teriyaki Hairpiece fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Aug 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2021 04:10
|
|
|
Reading the first book again, I started to wonder over the nature of the Old Forest, and what drives it to be so devious. I suppose the root cause (heh) is, like with all wicked things, the corruption of Morgoth, but the animosity between the forest trees and the Bucklanders intrigue me. The Hedge was apparently cultivated and maintained specifically because of the threat from the woods, but so far I haven't really found a stated purpose to this hostility.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2021 18:30
|
|
|
BigglesSWE posted:Reading the first book again, I started to wonder over the nature of the Old Forest, and what drives it to be so devious. I suppose the root cause (heh) is, like with all wicked things, the corruption of Morgoth, but the animosity between the forest trees and the Bucklanders intrigue me. The Hedge was apparently cultivated and maintained specifically because of the threat from the woods, but so far I haven't really found a stated purpose to this hostility. Huorns without Ents? Also the influence of Old Man Willow.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2021 18:41
|
|
|
The Old Forest is all that's left of the westernmost side of the greatwood and the trees are rather ornery as a result.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2021 18:47
|
|
|
Trees don’t like people because people—even decent people who aren’t openly intent on turning all of nature into a standing reserve for industrial production—think of it as necessary to kill them, cut them into bits, burn the bits, and take the land they live on. The trees of the Old Forest seem pretty much resigned to this state of affairs, they’re not leading crusades to wipe out the hobbits or anything, but whoever goes onto their turf is fair game.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2021 19:35
|
|
|
skasion posted:Trees don’t like people because people—even decent people who aren’t openly intent on turning all of nature into a standing reserve for industrial production—think of it as necessary to kill them, cut them into bits, burn the bits, and take the land they live on. The trees of the Old Forest seem pretty much resigned to this state of affairs, they’re not leading crusades to wipe out the hobbits or anything, but whoever goes onto their turf is fair game. This happens entirely because the elves thought it would be fun to talk to the trees, mind you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2021 19:42
|
|
|
I mean it’s all just that ATHF episode where the trees skin Carl, just a little less direct about it
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2021 19:46
|
|
|
sweet geek swag posted:This happens entirely because the elves thought it would be fun to talk to the trees, mind you. It's good that the trees can defend themselves.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2021 20:01
|
|
|
Still think the best line in the Silmarillion is the thing where Aulë is like "Nonetheless they will have need for wood" and goes back to hammering. The tone of that sentence, just so flippant and tongue-in-cheek and full of portent for the future, in the middle of all that sonorous Greek Gods stuff, it just cracks me up
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2021 20:28
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:Still think the best line in the Silmarillion is the thing where Aulë is like "Nonetheless they will have need for wood" and goes back to hammering. The tone of that sentence, just so flippant and tongue-in-cheek and full of portent for the future, in the middle of all that sonorous Greek Gods stuff, it just cracks me up Yeah, it’s a line thast makes you pause, for sure. Second best line is that description of Tulkas as a being interested solely in punching faces and laughing, followed by "...of no avail as a counsellor, but a hardy friend."
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2021 23:55
|
|
|
Data Graham posted:I mean it’s all just that ATHF episode where the trees skin Carl, just a little less direct about it quote:Merry and Pippin dragged themselves forward and lay down with their backs to the willow-trunk. Behind them the great cracks gaped wide to receive them as the tree swayed and creaked. They looked up at the grey and yellow leaves, moving softly against the light, and singing. They shut their eyes, and then it seemed that they could almost hear words, cool words, saying something about tree jail.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2021 00:26
|
|
|
Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:Merry and Pippin dragged themselves forward and lay down with their backs to the willow-trunk. Behind them the great cracks gaped wide to receive them as the tree swayed and creaked. They looked up at the grey and yellow leaves, moving softly against the light, and singing. They shut their eyes, and then it seemed that they could almost hear words, cool words, saying
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2021 12:44
|
|
|
lotr but every time sam takes a step towards mordor he says it'll be the farthest he's ever been: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHzF5KnoN20 It is over 9 hours long. You're welcome. my favorite comments: quote:Average K HIJK fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Aug 23, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 08:14
|
|
|
Alright so the runtime of the film is 178 minutes. Runtime of that video is 9 hrs 18 min or 558 minutes, so there's 380 minutes of the Sam scene. The Sam scene is about 24 seconds long which means, according to the creator of that video, Sam takes 950 steps in the movie, roughly. Give or take like 40 steps.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2021 08:52
|
|
|
Re: catapult, trebuchet and siege talk I don't know if these blog post series have made an appearance ITT (I suspect they might've), but a military historian dude does a deep dive on Helm's Deep and Pelennor/Siege of Minas Tirith in the books and films. They're pretty fun and interesting https://acoup.blog/2019/05/10/collections-the-siege-of-gondor/ https://acoup.blog/2020/05/01/collections-the-battle-of-helms-deep-part-i-bargaining-for-goods-at-helms-gate/
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 15:34
|
|
|
His siege of gondor series is fantastic for striking at the core of Tolkien's philosophy on conflict. There is never any doubt that the men of the west can prevent through feat of arms. What is in question is their will to fight. The Jackson films work on escalation to build tension, a back and forth between Mordor and Gondor where they each play trump cards to gain the upper hand. Tolkien's battlefield is psychological, where the hopes of victory and the despair brought on by fear and terror are more potent than any invincible ghost army crawling up an elephant like termites. The will to fight and to succeed can beat any numbers game.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2021 15:52
|
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:Alright so the runtime of the film is 178 minutes. Runtime of that video is 9 hrs 18 min or 558 minutes, so there's 380 minutes of the Sam scene. The Sam scene is about 24 seconds long which means, according to the creator of that video, Sam takes 950 steps in the movie, roughly. Give or take like 40 steps. Well the description implies it only counts if the steps are in the direction of Mordor.so discount some of the very first scenes and everything post-Mount Doom.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 06:26
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 17:35
|
|
|
I feel like the Incredible Tulk should be higher on the power level.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 17:50
|
|
|
Yeah, pretty sure Tulkas is the one true king of kicking rear end and taking names, he scares the poo poo out of Morgoth. Also where the hell is Orome, the wise yet still pretty powerful.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 17:56
|
|
|
Sauron having a higher power level than Huan, just lmao
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 18:00
|
|
|
lolling at Turin having negative wisdom
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 18:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 14:46 |
|
|
System Metternich posted:lolling at Turin having negative wisdom Yeah that’s the best part
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2021 18:02
|
|