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Speaking of which - so on my 5700G build, PBO is on by default (I did reset to defaults). PBO should be on, that's like normal opportunistic boost, right? It's PBO2 that's the actual overclocking mode? I still haven't figured out where the PPT limit setting lives on this BIOS, I'm wondering if Asus doesn't have this option on this board... (B550i Aorus Pro AX)
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Aug 20, 2021 00:32
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Not 100% sure, but with Zen 3 I think "Precision Boost 2" is the normal opportunistic boost, while "Precision Boost Overdrive" is basically the power limits off, go nuts mode. I don't fully get it, but I had to set PBO to "on" in my bios to do curve optimization, but it still defaults to off in Windows unless I enable a PBO profile in Ryzen Master.
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Aug 20, 2021 00:36
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as good as the functionality is - the naming scheme that AMD uses for their boost/power management/overclocking is absolutely infuriating
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Aug 20, 2021 00:41
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To be fair the way the've named these things is very confusing. As far as I know: Precision Boost 2 (PB2) is the standard clock boost. It is enabled by default and, at least on my board, there's no explicit setting to disable it. (You can set a manual clock rate, however.) Precision Boost Overdrive (PBO) is an overclocking option that increases the power limits for PB2 so your CPU will boost to higher frequencies for longer. On my board you have to go into the AMD Overclocking menu and click through the scary warning to enable it. Precision Boost Overdrive 2 (PBO2) is the latest version of the PBO algorithm that is used in Ryzen 5000 series CPUs only and was distributed via a BIOS update. It doesn't have a separate BIOS setting. Turning on PBO with a recent BIOS and a Ryzen 5000 series CPU means you're using PBO2. Edit: Incidentally I don't know what you guys think but it seems to me that the minor performance boost from enabling PBO isn't really worth the extra heat (and corresponding noise) generated. This isn't like the old days where you could get an easy 40-50% performance boost from overclocking. NoDamage fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Aug 20, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 00:45
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NoDamage posted:
The best part of pbo2 is using it to undervolt instead of overclock.
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Aug 20, 2021 01:05
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:After ignoring it for 8 months, I've started messing with the curve optimizer with my 5600X and am pretty happy with the results. I tried to take it slow and careful by going in increments of -5, one day at a time since I heard that instability can commonly occur in low-workload or idle situations that can only be exposed through normal use. For me, instability happened immediately on startup once I upped the offset to -25. Many of my desktop icons wouldn't load, and there was some unresponsiveness. I tried to restart the system and the start menu wasn't registering my clicks. So yeah, I force restarted, set the offset back to -20, and it's been stable for the couple weeks since then. Temps have been better during lightly threaded workloads, and i'm hitting higher boost frequencies (+150MHz or so) during all-core workloads. This is at the default power limit (PPT maxing out at around 75W). I guess it's possible to go further with the cores Ryzen Master marks as your best, but I'm just sticking with an all-core offset for now. I would recommend you use CoreCycler when doing Curve Optimizer because it tests each core in isolation, and it has various different algorithims you can run through it (small, large fft, avx2, etc) https://www.overclock.net/threads/corecycler-tool-for-testing-curve-optimizer-settings.1777398/ It's all pretty automated with only changing out your method or size-run. it helps a lot when doing CO stability because it also lets you know which cores you can decrease voltage to and which you need to increase. but yeah you can go further by doing difference in best cores vs worst cores. once you think you've got it set using shorter testing, then run really long and variable stressing overnight and wakeup in the morn and see how well it did. it's pretty straight forward and you can see their methodology in a spreadsheet there of how they did it and how you could do it. not saying you need to or anything, but if you get bored....... Xaris fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Aug 20, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 01:49
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I just picked up a 5900x for a couple reasons. I am on a 3800x now, with a PNY 3080. There's a handful of VR titles I play where I have seen consistent reports of smoother and to some extent overall higher framerates, using the same headset I do, and with a 3080. It looks like I can get $150-200 pretty easily for my processor, so this is a ~$350-400 cost. I had been thinking of just waiting until perhaps next summer and doing a complete system rebuild, but with chip shortages throwing a lot of things into question, I want to just get the most juice I can out of my existing setup and try to hold off doing anything else until, ideally, early 2023. From what I've read, even though the documentation says the chip should be water cooled, if I'm not going to push the clock speeds then using the stock Wraith Prism I have from my 3800 should be fine. Is anyone here using a 5900 or 5950 with a Wraith?
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Aug 20, 2021 21:17
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Just don't. It's a terrible idea. If you care about consistent frametimes, you care about consistent clock speeds, which you aren't going to get with a crappy OEM cooler letting everything heat soak to hell.
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Aug 20, 2021 21:27
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Cabbages and Kings posted:I just picked up a 5900x for a couple reasons. I am on a 3800x now, with a PNY 3080. There's a handful of VR titles I play where I have seen consistent reports of smoother and to some extent overall higher framerates, using the same headset I do, and with a 3080. It looks like I can get $150-200 pretty easily for my processor, so this is a ~$350-400 cost. I had been thinking of just waiting until perhaps next summer and doing a complete system rebuild, but with chip shortages throwing a lot of things into question, I want to just get the most juice I can out of my existing setup and try to hold off doing anything else until, ideally, early 2023. Don't spend $550 on a 5900X and then cheap out on the cooler via the Wraith. The 5900X is fine on air cooling (I have one and am doing so), but get a decent air cooler.
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Aug 20, 2021 21:41
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yeah kind of silly from a price/performance standpoint, even a 30-50 dollar cooler will out perform the stock pretty significantly. does VR use a bunch of cores more than traditional gaming?
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Aug 20, 2021 21:48
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thanks!SourKraut posted:Don't spend $550 on a 5900X and then cheap out on the cooler via the Wraith. The 5900X is fine on air cooling (I have one and am doing so), but get a decent air cooler. what cooler are you using, and would you recommend that particular one? I don't mind spending some more money, I just didn't want to if I don't need to; if it's a clear advantage, welp. CoolCab posted:yeah kind of silly from a price/performance standpoint, even a 30-50 dollar cooler will out perform the stock pretty significantly. does VR use a bunch of cores more than traditional gaming? as a general rule "lol no" and with some specific exceptions gains seen are only based on the increase in single core performace  -- and some titles (ACC, I'm looking at you) are notoriously poorly implemented especially for VR, and a CPU upgrade on that front is sort of silly.I have a 30 day return and If I don't see a difference in how smooth things are in a handful of things I care about, I will return it. edit: VV thanks!! -- I have a beQuiet! case and generally like things to not be noisier than they need to so I will do that. Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Aug 20, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 21:48
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Cabbages and Kings posted:thanks! I'm using a be quiet! Dark Rock TF (https://www.amazon.com/quiet-Dark-R...la-556656995517), but my build is also in a Cerebus X so there were limits on what air cooler I could get/use, and I wanted it to be as quiet as possible, which it is.
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Aug 20, 2021 21:51
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Cabbages and Kings posted:
well specifically because you're going to need more cooler for more cores - a 5600X is what we tend to sling a lot as a recommendation in the PC building thread mostly for price/performance because single core is king but also like, those six extra cores make a little more heat, lol. would an Arctic Esports Duo or similar be enough? in my mind i imagining something with at least two 120mm fans if you're going air cooling.
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Aug 20, 2021 21:56
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Cabbages and Kings posted:edit: VV thanks!! -- I have a beQuiet! case and generally like things to not be noisier than they need to so I will do that.
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Aug 20, 2021 22:34
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The Scythe Fuma 2 can have issues coping with the higher heatloads the 5900X is capable of putting out, though it should be okay if you keep the CPU strictly at stock settings. It'd at least be better than the stock cooler. The Dark Rock Pro 4 is Be Quiet's current premier cooler. I have one and it's a seriously chonky boy, but it is indeed quiet. I can't vouch for its performance at higher levels of load, but it's rated for 250W which the 5900X falls under. Alternatively, there's the venerable NH-D15 which will never let you down. The fans are even quieter than Be Quiet's at equivalent levels of airflow, but with a higher max RPM so it can really spin up when needed. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Aug 20, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 22:41
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The Scythe Fuma 2 can have issues coping with the higher heatloads the 5900X is capable of putting out, though it should be okay if you keep the CPU strictly at stock settings. It'd at least be better than the stock cooler.
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Aug 20, 2021 23:00
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NoDamage posted:I mean, it's within a couple degrees of the D15 at nearly half the price. If you want to do some heavy overclocking, then sure, pony up for the D15 or get an AIO. But I'm guessing most people don't want to spend $100 on a cooler and at stock speeds it's more than adequate, and pretty good value. The 100% fan speed tests tell the tale better than noise normalized tests in terms of maximum possible heat dissipation. I still think the Fuma 2 has the possibility of letting the 5900X throttle under max load if you have higher ambient temperatures or worse case airflow than these test benches, but you're right that it wouldn't be an issue under normal circumstances.
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Aug 20, 2021 23:20
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the general rule of thumb for the 12&16 core parts is it's possible to use them stock on air cooling, but any amount of overclocking will probably need an AIO. I've got a 5900x with an nh-u12a and it maxes out at around 84-ish degrees stock. I imagine if I turned on PBO it would start throttling.
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Aug 21, 2021 00:05
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The Scythe Fuma 2 can have issues coping with the higher heatloads the 5900X is capable of putting out, though it should be okay if you keep the CPU strictly at stock settings. It'd at least be better than the stock cooler. Thanks!! Dramicus posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the general rule of thumb for the 12&16 core parts is it's possible to use them stock on air cooling, but any amount of overclocking will probably need an AIO. I've got a 5900x with an nh-u12a and it maxes out at around 84-ish degrees stock. I imagine if I turned on PBO it would start throttling. Yeah, it's been quite a while since I've OC'd anything besides GPU memory, but if I decide to futz around with it I will definitely go to liquid cooling first. I'm disinclined, initially, just because I've never mounted a liquid system before, cost, etc. I know the AIOs are supposed to be pretty easy and I am sure 10 year old kids all over have installed them. That said, when I was 10 my dexterity and patience about things install related were a lot higher.
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Aug 21, 2021 00:37
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yeah AIOs are basically split level air coolers, they're nowhere near as much of a pain in the rear end as any kind of open loop.
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Aug 21, 2021 01:08
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Cranking power limits on ryzen is mostly an exercise in diminishing returns - you're very unlikely to get meaningfully more performance out of an aio than you would from an NH-D15S. The fuma 2 is honestly fine for a 5900X, it's not going to throttle it just won't boost quite as high as the high end towers and 240/280 rads. It excels most at probably 100w heat loads at extremely low noise levels. It's maybe one of the best choices if your priority is a computer that's inaudible in all circumstances.
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Aug 21, 2021 01:45
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Any suggestions for quiet coolers with addressable rgb? I would hate to ruin my case aesthetics  If not I will probably get the dr4 or noctua.
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Aug 21, 2021 10:19
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Cabbages and Kings posted:Any suggestions for quiet coolers with addressable rgb? I would hate to ruin my case aesthetics What CPU? Everyone's favorite bargain-bin overachiever, the Cooler Master Hyper 212, has an RGB version, though it's not addressable and it's not suitable for higher-TDP CPUs. You could also always buy a dual-tower cooler and then replace the front fan with an ARGB one. (edit: poo poo, I totally missed that you were the 5900X guy. Sorry lol) Most of the RGB though seems to be in the AIOs. The Corsair iCUE series of AIOs are popular, but I think that's a proprietary RGB thing? Cooler Master has an ARGB AIO though. And EK, a popular maker of open-loop supplies, made an addressable RGB AIO. It's rather plain, but I like it. Just a big, dumb, light-up brick sitting on your CPU. (there's a 360mm one too.) Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Aug 21, 2021 |
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Aug 21, 2021 11:01
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If I end I end up going the water cooling route afterall just to get pretty lights, but the fans I am looking at at this point are $100 anyway. I guess if I spend $20 extra on a fan, then I can also muck with clock speeds if I decide to start doing things I am not doing now.
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Aug 21, 2021 14:24
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Cabbages and Kings posted:Any suggestions for quiet coolers with addressable rgb? I would hate to ruin my case aesthetics I ended up buying a Corsair AIO for my 5900X and it keeps things at like 35-40C in Quiet mode. Balanced mode sounded like a jet engine revving up, but Quiet mode cools nearly as well at a much lower sound level.
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Aug 21, 2021 18:44
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So it's suppose to be next year that AMD releases CPUs that are a major step up from anything else on the market correct?
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Aug 21, 2021 18:53
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punk rebel ecks posted:So it's suppose to be next year that AMD releases CPUs that are a major step up from anything else on the market correct? Yes.
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Aug 21, 2021 19:19
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i'm hoping they're going to announce like a 5500X or even 5300X or similar before they retire the socket. something more affordable than the G line or the 5600X, which is still a 240 quid part here even on promo. how long typically is it until they start filling out the stack?
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Aug 21, 2021 19:41
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I've always felt this was extremely touch & go on AMD's part, Intel is supposed to be releasing Alder Lake this year, and if it's as good as they claim, AMD could be under a lot of pressure. Intel was claiming that the e-cores alone are 40% faster than skylake cores, while consuming less than 40% of the power consumption. That's some pretty serious poo poo to go up against if they're being truthful about it. I am personally skeptical - Intel is probably using some obscure benchmark that may not be relevant for typical usage - but if they're in that ballpark, sparks will fly.
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Aug 21, 2021 19:54
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:I've always felt this was extremely touch & go on AMD's part, Intel is supposed to be releasing Alder Lake this year, and if it's as good as they claim, AMD could be under a lot of pressure. Yeah, 2022 should be the year where I finally build a new PC and upgrade my literally ancient CPU.
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Aug 21, 2021 19:57
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punk rebel ecks posted:So it's suppose to be next year that AMD releases CPUs that are a major step up from anything else on the market correct? yes but the estimates I've seen most recently are "late 2022", which to me, means I am maybe looking at parts that are available enough that I have some selection by march/april 2023. I, personally, don't wanna be on a 3800x that long. The six minutes of gaming a week I do demands it.
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Aug 21, 2021 21:09
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punk rebel ecks posted:So it's suppose to be next year that AMD releases CPUs that are a major step up from anything else on the market correct? I thought it was decided it seemed likely we'll see one more spin on AM4 before AM5 and DDR5 roll in, but the timing is not clear.
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Aug 21, 2021 21:16
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They better do a DDR4 Zen4 then. Can't be assed to deal with early DDR5. That and the lack of ECC UDIMMs for a while.
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Aug 21, 2021 21:40
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:I've always felt this was extremely touch & go on AMD's part, Intel is supposed to be releasing Alder Lake this year, and if it's as good as they claim, AMD could be under a lot of pressure. Either. Same latency at 40 percent less power, or 40 percent more latency perf at the old power. Not both. Whatever the hell they claim "latency perf" means, but at least that's comparing 1c1t to 1c1t E-core to Skylake. On the other hand, they are still also claiming "80% more throughput performance OR 80% less power consumed" when comparing 2c4t Skylake to 4c4t E-core, so.... maybe they're just making up numbers that don't mean anything again and we just gotta wait for reviews. But then they're also saying that they want to use this for the next decade, and we all saw what happened the LAST time they sat on a core architecture for a decade. INTEL: Benchmarks, but only when it benefits us, and if not, then we abstract the gently caress out of everything to meaninglessness!
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Aug 21, 2021 23:54
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:I've always felt this was extremely touch & go on AMD's part, Intel is supposed to be releasing Alder Lake this year, and if it's as good as they claim, AMD could be under a lot of pressure. I suppose my "yes" was more about the timing of the thing than the performance claim, as in we're supposed to see Alder Lake in late 2021 (rumors say just the unlocked K-SKUs this year, with the rest following next year), and Zen 4 coming in 2022 there's been very light rumors that we might see a Zen 3 refresh, or even a Zen 3 with the 3D-stacked cache tech by late this year, but Zen 4 was always only mentioned as a 2022 release
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Aug 22, 2021 03:23
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gradenko_2000 posted:I suppose my "yes" was more about the timing of the thing than the performance claim, as in we're supposed to see Alder Lake in late 2021 (rumors say just the unlocked K-SKUs this year, with the rest following next year), and Zen 4 coming in 2022 That's what I'm hoping for, and would justify in my mind going from the 3600X I'm currently running. If it doesn't, I might try to get a 5600X or higher if they go on a fire sale or something, but it's harder to justify.
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Aug 22, 2021 07:59
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I'm awry on buying six cores, since the new generation of games are using 8c/16t CPUs as baseline. I'm sure the 5600 is more than fast enough for a couple years yet but you never know.
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Aug 22, 2021 08:47
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:I'm awry on buying six cores, since the new generation of games are using 8c/16t CPUs as baseline. The raw number of cores doesn't matter, because the performance of any individual core can vary hugely between architectures Yes, the consoles have eight cores (with seven used for gaming), but you don't need to aim for a CPU with eight cores to keep up with a console. Rather, you with a CPU with as much overall performance, of which a 5600X can meet, compared to a 3700X as an analogue to a console CPU
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Aug 22, 2021 08:54
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:I'm awry on buying six cores, since the new generation of games are using 8c/16t CPUs as baseline. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ6k-cQ94Rc&t=928s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkfjICH1VqY The 5800X has virtually identical performance to the 5600X in almost every gaming benchmark, and I suspect it will stay that way for many years to come. Games being coded for 8-core consoles has little relevance to the discussion, as it's not like cores/threads can't do multiple things at once. What matters most is overall performance, and the 5600X is pretty far ahead of the console CPUs in that department. Getting a 5800X just to have two more cores for gaming would be a complete waste of money. By saving that money and upgrading your GPU instead, you'll get way more performance out of your PC in both the short and long term.
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Aug 22, 2021 09:03
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:as it's not like cores/threads can't do multiple things at once. I thought “thread” was the unit of “doing things at once” — what do you mean here by a thread doing multiple things at once? Can they split and schedule the execution units more finely than at thread granularity? I feel like I’m missing something big!
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Aug 22, 2021 10:36
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