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I didn't (consciously) realise it had happened until I read The 50 Year Voyage, but after letting others take the wheel in season 2 to give the Enterprise crew a more informal, friends-and-family kind of air, Roddenberry came back and insisted everything return to military formality, arguably even doubling down on it. Which I think was another point against season 3; once you get used to Kirk's evident warmth and closeness to his crew in season 2, it feels offputting to have him snapping out orders to characters he calls by position rather than name. Shatner trying to turn it into The Kirk Show to the point of taking lines from other actors probably didn't help.
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Aug 20, 2021 15:48
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I remember how jarring it was to watch season 3 because they added a bunch of extra shots of Kirk for no reason, especially in one episode where it's flipped and the delta is on the wrong side of his uniform.
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Aug 20, 2021 15:55
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nine-gear crow posted:Maybe Gene wasn't such a bad guy after all Gene had tons of hangups and problems, but he still had a fundamentally optimistic view of the human race
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Aug 20, 2021 15:59
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HD DAD posted:Gene and Tony Wilson have a lot in common now that I think about it "One time, I'd given Shatner and the TOS crew a lot of money and sent them to heroin island to make a movie, but he refused to hand the tapes over until I gave him thousands more. We met in a bar, and I only had 20 dollars on me, so he took that... it was just the score, that's all they'd done... and they'd stripped the studio for drug money... Anyway, so then we opened a night club in Vegas..." ALL THE OSCARS!
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Aug 20, 2021 16:10
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Tom Guycot posted:Yeah I want to see Hanks doing scenes of the TNG writers room So basically "make the episode but make sure that Picard guy isn't in the way."
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Aug 20, 2021 16:17
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A.o.D. posted:Gene had tons of hangups and problems, but he still had a fundamentally optimistic view of the human race Countdown until Timby tells us that he was actually a clinically diagnosed sociopathic narcissist and was literally incapable of believing in human goodness
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Aug 20, 2021 19:39
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Gene was a huge piece of poo poo though, this isn’t revisionism or fantasy, it’s something backed up by dozens of people he worked with, including the ones who actually liked him. Having a positive outlook on humanity does not automatically make you a good person and the lengths the franchise and the fandom go to lionize Gene rival what Disney does with Walt.
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Aug 20, 2021 19:48
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I do not and never have given a gently caress about Roddenberry as a person, only the underlying philosophy that we can choose to be better and will because we must.
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Aug 20, 2021 19:54
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Gene's Vision gave us the first season of TNG. Think on that. 
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Aug 20, 2021 20:02
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Aug 20, 2021 20:06
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Axe-man posted:Gene's Vision gave us the first season of TNG. gently caress "Gene's vison" Star Trek became what it was because of the contributions of many different people including Bob Justman, Gene Coon, DC Fontana and so many others That first season sucked a lot of the time but at least it's earnest.
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Aug 20, 2021 20:08
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FlamingLiberal posted:There are like two good episodes for that entire season, but many straight up bad ones There's more than two. Day of the Dove, The Tholian Web, Spectre of the Gun, For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky, The Enterprise Incident... It's just that when TOS got bad, it got really bad.
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Aug 20, 2021 20:20
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Vince McMahon, falling backwards
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Aug 20, 2021 21:03
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Trickjaw posted:TOS generations counts 
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Aug 20, 2021 21:41
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Gene was a huge piece of poo poo though, this isn’t revisionism or fantasy, it’s something backed up by dozens of people he worked with, including the ones who actually liked him. I also dislike how people have this cargo cult/regular cult mentality around Gene's Vision and nothing must change from the TOS era, because of Gene's Vision. Starfleet shouldn't have a military even though they pretty much are one and get boarded and attacked all the time, because Gene's Vision.
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Aug 20, 2021 22:30
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Starfleet often serves as the federation's military but since it's 300 years in the future and human society is no longer loving pissmade garbage like it is now they are not a direct analog to today's armed forces despite their maintenance of certain naval traditions like the rank structure and the boatswain's call. Depending on the era Starfleet goes through periods of increased militarization for in-universe reasons like having to defend the Federation during an all out war, etc. I don't understand how this is difficult, I understood this as a child and it's only gotten clearer with age. Depending on the year or how many drugs he was hopped up on Roddenberry either wanted more militarization (TOS season 3) or less (TMP onward) I like the look and feel of the TOS movies and DS9 and their more military take on Starfleet but I prefer the vibe of TMP and TNG because that to me is far more what Star Trek is about overall. In this day and age, I'm weary of people who want that more militaristic viewpoint because I don't think they have any kind of worthwhile point to make with it other than "isn't this tacticlol phaser holster kewl bro"
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Aug 20, 2021 22:53
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Tighclops posted:but I prefer the vibe of TMP and TNG because that to me is far more what Star Trek is about overall. Freeman is even like Picard, in that she sits there and goes "let's give them one more chance to accept a diplomatic solution" as torpedoes hammer the shields.
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Aug 20, 2021 23:02
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Clearly the people making LD like Star Trek on some level and after a decade of grim/shooty crap I can see why fans would be into it unfortunately it's terribly unfunny and every time they do another cringe reference to old material it made me want to throw a brick through my TV, that this is the best they can apparently do in 2021 is a further indictment of the creative integrity of the brand
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Aug 20, 2021 23:08
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Tighclops posted:unfortunately it's terribly unfunny and every time they do another cringe reference to old material it made me want to throw a brick through my TV, that this is the best they can apparently do in 2021 is a further indictment of the creative integrity of the brand 
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Aug 20, 2021 23:14
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and hey I like stupid bullshit nerd pandering too, it's just that for me it's limited to one of those Transformers figures that's an obscure reference to one released 30 years ago except this time it's got full articulation so I'm not judging anybody that likes LD in my head, if you make something like Transformers into something like Star Trek that's good and an upgrade, but if you make something like Star Trek as if it's Transformers then you've lost something important along the way and the whole thing becomes just that much emptier
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Aug 20, 2021 23:19
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Tighclops posted:and hey I like stupid bullshit nerd pandering too, it's just that for me it's limited to one of those Transformers figures that's an obscure reference to one released 30 years ago except this time it's got full articulation so I'm not judging anybody that likes LD The fact that they couldn't even make new metaphors for the Tamarian in the last episode just made me unreasonably angry. It was obvious the writers were contorting themselves into pretzels to get him to say the lines from "Darmok"
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Aug 20, 2021 23:23
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I feel like people are mythologizing Star Trek a bit. It has definitely changed who it’s target audience is but it was always a network TV show, it can’t really be empty as it never had anything in it to begin with
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Aug 20, 2021 23:29
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Nitrousoxide posted:The fact that they couldn't even make new metaphors for the Tamarian in the last episode just made me unreasonably angry. They did one, at least: his very first line.
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Aug 20, 2021 23:31
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I'm not saying it was high art but Star Trek generally had just a touch more going on than the average episode of SVU or poo poo like Knight Rider. (and I like Knight Rider.) I don't think it's fair to characterize it as just another empty network TV show. I will say that when they market the show as if it's a Serious Prestige Drama with Things to Say and then they crap out a thing where everyone's an abusive idiot that commits war crimes and then pivot to a bunch of ludicrous fanservice after their initial plan invited a massive backlash it's a bad look
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Aug 20, 2021 23:36
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Tighclops, his dealing with it unable
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Aug 20, 2021 23:42
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I love my av, it's arguably the only good thing to come out of that show
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Aug 20, 2021 23:45
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It is okay, I think tighclops got a flash back to old trek that really is commendable, the whole idea that things can be handled peacefully and that conflict and always being aggressive or defensive was a trap. Along with a world that had some truly inspiring things, in time when black people marched in the streets for even the minimal civil rights, racism was beyond over, it was forgotten, humanity had evolved into something better than that. Someone get a pillow and put on TMP. 
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Aug 20, 2021 23:48
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I've been posting alot because I got some nice weed, sorry everyone I'm sorrier star trek sucks now though
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Aug 20, 2021 23:49
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Do you know the Klingon proverb that tells us posting is a dish best served dank?
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Aug 20, 2021 23:57
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I love that they finally included space weed as a thing in one of these shows and it was terrible and cringe instead of being like, geordi and data getting high and watching holographic three stooges shorts E: actually I don't love that at all it's making me sad
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Aug 21, 2021 00:02
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Tighclops posted:Starfleet often serves as the federation's military but since it's 300 years in the future and human society is no longer loving pissmade garbage like it is now they are not a direct analog to today's armed forces despite their maintenance of certain naval traditions like the rank structure and the boatswain's call. Depending on the era Starfleet goes through periods of increased militarization for in-universe reasons like having to defend the Federation during an all out war, etc. I think challenging the utopia of the Federation with the realities of fighting a war does set the stage to make good and worthwhile points. My thought was that a lot of guys seem to think Federation as utopia means that applies to everyone they ever meet, which is absurd just based on the Klingons alone. Mostly my beef is that they happily send bridge officers down with no escort or scouting beyond sensors (which are often wrong) into whatever the hell in bright yellow uniforms, even when that doesn't make any sense. Although "Starfleet but military" is Discovery. I finally tried it since I got P+ and it's.... Like, it has some good moments, cast members and designs but I don't dig its vibe too much either. The fact that Burnham is seriously the Lost Long Sibling of Spock is  , especially since she's usually described as Mary Sue on top of that. That's the granddaddy of all fanfics. Also Starfleet military uniforms as seen in DIS look like cop uniforms, I guess that's another monkey paw wish I got granted. On the plus side, you can look like a Resident Evil character if you put an RCPD banner on the back of the vest
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Aug 21, 2021 00:04
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There we go, there is that harsh reality slowly seeping in.
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Aug 21, 2021 00:05
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The only good cop show was Miami Vice and even then it was still copaganda
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Aug 21, 2021 00:07
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Tighclops posted:The only good cop show was Miami Vice and even then it was still copaganda Homicide
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Aug 21, 2021 00:37
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skasion posted:Homicide Didn't have Matt Frewer at any point. Next.
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Aug 21, 2021 01:04
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Columbo
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Aug 21, 2021 01:06
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Columbo Holy poo poo how the gently caress could I forget Columbo, the only cop who catches rich people point conceeded!
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Aug 21, 2021 01:12
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Tighclops posted:Holy poo poo how the gently caress could I forget Columbo, the only cop who catches rich people Kate Mulgrew played Mrs. Columbo in a spin-off.
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Aug 21, 2021 01:16
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Sledge Hammer!
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Aug 21, 2021 01:26
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I think Lower Decks is fantastic, I don't know what you see as so wrong about it. It's definitely not the same kind of show as the original series, but it's not trying to be. I think there's not a lot of shows these days that try to be, honestly. Not just the episodic nature of it, but there's not as much of the whole lust for exploration and seeing new things in the zeitgeist for whatever reason.
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Aug 21, 2021 01:47
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