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Rusty
Sep 28, 2001
Dinosaur Gum

monkeytennis posted:

You can change the oil yourself if that’s your thing and reset the service indicator. I did that on my wife’s 2020 TSi when it popped up at 6000 miles.
Yeah, it's especially easy on the GTI since you can use an extractor through the dip stick and the filter is on the top and easily accessible.

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Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

nitsuga posted:

Yeah, that'd be my vote too. The manual does say every 10,000 miles or 1 year, whichever comes first. The "free" maintenance visits should cover all that is needed.

I’ve read that there are long term benefits to changing your oil more frequently. That 5000 mile changes are still good if you want longevity. More frequently than that even if you drive harder or do any track stuff.

dialhforhero
Apr 3, 2008
Am I 🧑‍🏫 out of touch🤔? No🧐, it's the children👶 who are wrong🤷🏼‍♂️
Not a VW but I have changed my 08 Pontiac G6 every 5k miles with full synthetic through the life of the car and I feel very confident the engine is still in great shape because of it.

This was on the advice of my mechanic friend and it is blanket advice for all cars.

nitsuga
Jan 1, 2007

There are definitely people out there who recommend it. I’m not sure where I stand on it. On one hand there’s no harm in doing it every 5,000 miles, but I also want to believe manufacturers wouldn’t willingly recommend a detrimental oil change interval. Go ahead and mock me for my naivety though.

Rosoboronexport
Jun 14, 2006

Get in the bath, baby!
Ramrod XTreme

teh_Broseph posted:

Maintenance question if I could bug y'all please - mk7.5 GTI is dinging me about service in 20 days, but I'm only at 6,000 miles. Guessing I should just ignore it until I'm closer to the 10,000 mark, or should I take it in? Got oil changes on a regular basis on my last car regardless of mileage but that was an '02 I wanted to be extra safe with. Maybe need to check with the dealer too cause the car came with the VW 30k mile included maintenance that I don't have the detailed terms of, but also don't want them pushing unneeded service.

Yep, as said before it counts both days and miles. If you have the longlife schedule (dunno if that's offered/enabled in the US) the service might be just a check-up service with no oil change. Your onboard infotainment can have two countdowns -- one for check-up and other for oil change service.

Another question -- how is the quality of OEM speakers regarding durability? My both back speakers went bad when my Ibiza was around 4 years old, though if felt that sometimes the speakers rattled badly before that and sometimes it was barely noticeable. I had them both replaced with same OEM speakers and after one year left rear speaker is rattling again. Thankfully the shop gives 2 year warranty for parts and labor so this does not cost me any more but I'm thinking that if this is typical duration or I just got unlucky.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Murgos posted:

I’ve read that there are long term benefits to changing your oil more frequently. That 5000 mile changes are still good if you want longevity. More frequently than that even if you drive harder or do any track stuff.

With the TDI with the timing chains, its supposed to help increase chain guide life, I do mine every 5,000. The 5w30 Audi uses already is low weight for a diesel of that size, so yeah.

teh_Broseph
Oct 21, 2010

THE LAST METROID IS IN
CATTIVITY. THE GALAXY
IS AT PEACE...
Lipstick Apathy
'Preciate the oil wisdom, good to know it's easy to do on the GTI. I have some baggage of my dad being a crazy idiot blowing all our money growing up on buying a bunch of semi running cars to work on them but not actually knowing what he was doing* - part of buying new was to have a rock solid kid taxi and not be That Guy. Will stick with the dealer while it's all covered but deffo check out some videos and plan for down the road doing it myself at the 5-6k mark, at least right now wanting to keep this thing for a lonngg time and in good shape along with getting in some track days here and there for a chance to really rip it. The dream is to get a second gently caress around car to learn some wrenching on then mostly maintain both myself.

*If you ever see two 911s and a 914 (no idea when from, pre-90's) along with 10 other heaps rotting in a field, I can tell ya who owns them. Don't worry, they have the insurance plan that covers if a tree falls on them :mmmhmm:

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!
better a “rattletrap Porsche dad” than another Camry dad, tbh, be thankful for what you have

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
camry dads are fine you don't need to do anything interesting with cars to be a good and interesting dad

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009

IMO if you have a dad that made impulsive cool decisions that led to having three lovely porches in the yard you probably also got to know them in a more interesting way than those of us with boring perfect responsoble dads. It all balances out.

teh_Broseph
Oct 21, 2010

THE LAST METROID IS IN
CATTIVITY. THE GALAXY
IS AT PEACE...
Lipstick Apathy
Nah this was more like manic overconfident wreck family finances on cars we mostly never saw and let them rot in fields or something instead of knowing what he was doing and taking car of them, so I'm gonna be extra careful/conservative and hopefully learn some stuff and fix up a car and (pretend to care enough to) go do burnouts on his lawn kinda thing. :gaz:. The yellow 914 did run for a least a couple weeks though and got to take a few pretty cool memorable rides in it.

teh_Broseph fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Aug 12, 2021

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

camry dads are fine you don't need to do anything interesting with cars to be a good and interesting dad

Camry dads aren’t always Camry dads.

My own dad was a Mk 2 Jetta dad—and then your usual Jetta poo poo turned him into an Accord dad for a decade.

Then from an Accord he decided to take a chance on a 2.0 Tiptronic B8 A4, which no matter what anybody tells you is basically a Jetta with Quattro...and he both loved and hated that thing as it was a blast for him to drive but also a giant piece of poo poo that ate like two drivetrains and guzzled oil, just made Costco boxes of Mobil synthetic disappear into the void. It died for a final time in 2020 and was sold for parts/chassis as all Audis probably deserve.

So now he’s a Model 3 dad and he charges his car for free at the nearby bank on weekends and has my mom drive him home so he barely has to pay to charge

This doesn’t count his “truck” (2004 CRV) or the 97 Cabrio rust bucket that technically belongs to my sister (I loving love that Cabrio, even with an auto and no VR6 the Mk 3 Golf/Cab/Jetta is like the best VW) that he bought on a whim in 2010

All dads are interesting with cars

Ihmemies
Oct 6, 2012

You probably shouldn't buy a 2.0 TFSI Audi. Or Haldex without Haldex oil filter.

Especially 5 valve per cylinder engines are quite reliable, and Tiptronics, if you change oil regularly.

Also don't buy Audis with too much poo poo in the engine bay, if you can't drop the engine by yourself. Biturbo V6 & V8, W12...

willroc7
Jul 24, 2006

BADGES? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' BADGES!
Warning headphone users, turn volume down. Is this a wheel bearing? 2011 Audi A8L. Started making this sound at 40mph. Stops when car is stopped. Very loud lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4QaC6LWh6I

Please excuse the camera work also, its being take outside the car at walking speed.

GabbiLB
Jul 14, 2004

~toot~
Sounds like something is stuck in the brake caliper or the dust shield and is scraping the poo poo out of your rotor. If that was a wheel bearing you would have heard it before it got that bad.

willroc7
Jul 24, 2006

BADGES? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' BADGES!
Thanks I'll poke around in there tomorrow.

willroc7
Jul 24, 2006

BADGES? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' BADGES!

Nailed it.

Uncle Lizard
Sep 28, 2012

by Athanatos
So I decided to take a different way through the neighborhood on my way home from work yesterday and happened to drive by a 2008 Audi A4 2.0t S-Line Avant for sale for $4k OBO. I drove back by it this morning on my way to work, and I think I want it. I need to give my 86 GLI a rest so I can actually restore it.

How dumb would I be for getting this car? I know I need to inquire about timing belt, water pump, etc., and I am aware of carbon build up issues, which seem to be more of an issue in the 1.8 from what I read, but I'm no scientist. What are some other common issues to be aware of, is this a good price if the timing belt and other large maintenance issues have been done recently, or should I just run and hide?

Uncle Lizard fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Aug 20, 2021

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Uncle Lizard posted:

So I decided to take a different way through the neighborhood on my way home from work yesterday and happened to drive by a 2008 Audi A4 2.0t Avant for sale for $4k OBO. I drove back by it this morning on my way to work, and I think I want it. I need to give my 86 GLI a rest so I can actually restore it.

How dumb would I be for getting this car? I know I need to inquire about timing belt, water pump, etc., and I am aware of carbon build up issues, which seem to be more of an issue in the 1.8 from what I read, but I'm no scientist. What are some other common issues to be aware of, is this a good price if the timing belt and other large maintenance issues have been done recently, or should I just run and hide?

It’s not nearly as nice as the B8 model that debuted in 2009, and it’s equally as unreliable

Uncle Lizard
Sep 28, 2012

by Athanatos

Ok Comboomer posted:

It’s not nearly as nice as the B8 model that debuted in 2009, and it’s equally as unreliable

Would it be less reliable than a 35 year old GLI that only gets money thrown at it randomly, or when something breaks? I'm assuming parts and labor are about the same except turbo stuffs right?

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Uncle Lizard posted:

Would it be less reliable than a 35 year old GLI that only gets money thrown at it randomly, or when something breaks? I'm assuming parts and labor are about the same except turbo stuffs right?

What I’m saying is that if you can afford to push your budget North toward ~$10k for a B8, I might do that.

In both cases, there are potential drivetrain failures with repair costs that will eclipse the $4K cost of that 2008 model.

I believe that in both cases, a manual transmission will be a lot more reliable than a tiptronic or DCT

Mr. Apollo
Nov 8, 2000

If you can get a B8.5, that update addressed a whole bunch of issues with the B8.

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Mr. Apollo posted:

If you can get a B8.5, that update addressed a whole bunch of issues with the B8.

That would’ve been my #1 suggestion, but I figured that those would get way out of OP’s budget.

I just think that the B8 and forward are way higher performing and more athletic/sporty cars than their predecessors (and they’re open to tuning), and since they use essentially the same design language as they do now they look way more new.

Like, if you’re not a VW/Audi enthusiast or a mechanic I don’t think anybody would be able to tell a 2010 from a 2014 from a 2019, etc. but they’ll immediately be able to tell that your ‘08 is a decade+ old.

Uncle Lizard
Sep 28, 2012

by Athanatos
$10k is not in the budget at all. I just happened to see this car for sale in my neighborhood and thought it could give my old GLI a rest for a while. It's trunk leaks, the tail lights don't work at the moment, and I have to find someone with a 4 point lift to drop the sub frame, or take the entire intake off, to install a new header, because the old one is rusted out and has a leak. With it getting darker, the tail lights might be something important, and I'm not sure how deep this electrical issue is going to go. I just thought I would ask the thread's opinion on this car, but increasing the price is not an option, and I'm not actively shopping for a car, so I'm not looking at other cars. It's more of a pass or go for it deal.

Uncle Lizard fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Aug 21, 2021

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Uncle Lizard posted:

$10k is not in the budget at all. I just happened to see this car for sale in my neighborhood and thought it could give my old GLI a rest for a while. It's trunk leaks, the tail lights don't work at the moment, and I have to find someone with a 4 point lift to drop the sub frame, or take the entire intake off, to install a new header, because the old one is rusted out and has a leak. With it getting darker, the tail lights might be something important, and I'm not sure how deep this electrical issue is going to. Just thought I would ask the thread's opinion on this car, but increasing the price is not an option, and I'm not actively shipping for a car, so I'm not looking at other cars. It's more of a pass or go for it deal.

If your budget is tight, don’t ever get an Audi of any vintage. One bit of bad luck and you’re looking at a four-figure repair bill. One bit of especially bad luck and you’re looking at a repair bill that costs 2-3x what you paid for the car.

At least if you get a Porsche they’re semi-reliable into six-figure mileages.

If you need a fun daily to take the pressure off of your old GLI get a Civic or a Fit or a Corolla or an old 350Z or Miata (or a manual CRV like I didn’t do). Hell, get a Gen 3/4 Cabrio.

trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Aug 21, 2021

nitsuga
Jan 1, 2007

It might be one of the better German finds out there at $4,000, and I’d probably want something else to daily too. If you don’t mind doing some work on the Audi, all the better.

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

nitsuga posted:

It might be one of the better German finds out there at $4,000

You’re describing the E36/E46

soulfulspinster
Aug 2, 2012

So on the part of three digit mileage VW's:

I bought a 2012 Golf R, I'm at 123xxx miles on it and so far the only issues that have come up have been related to the mods that the first owner put on there. It was reasonable cheap to get a hold of though but I hear that the haldex and the dsg are common issues.

Uncle Lizard
Sep 28, 2012

by Athanatos

Ok Comboomer posted:

If your budget is tight, don’t ever get an Audi of any vintage. One bit of bad luck and you’re looking at a four-figure repair bill. One bit of especially bad luck and you’re looking at a repair bill that costs 2-3x what you paid for the car.

At least if you get a Porsche they’re semi-reliable into six-figure mileages.

If you need a fun daily to take the pressure off of your old GLI get a Civic or a Fit or a Corolla or an old 350Z or Miata (or a manual CRV like I didn’t do).

Look, I get it, and it might seem like I'm set on this car and not listening, but other than avoiding anything not manual transmission, nobody seems to be really diving into the issues of this model or year with any details. Every 9 months or so I have a $1k+ something fix I have to do on my GLI, and it still leaks, and doesn't have any tail lights. And this is outside of me doing whatever work I can do myself.

As for the other suggestions, in my area I just saw a 1999 Camry with 200k miles go for $6k, and Toyotas in general are overpriced here. Hondas are stupid expensive as well, and get stolen left and right in my area. Out of the above mentioned cars, the only one I would consider would be maybe the 350Z, but that doesn't really interest me, and I didn't see one for sale in my way home from work for $4k. Like I said, I'm not shopping for cars, I just happened to stumble across this car, wanted to know what the issues were, in greater detail, know what a fair price would be, and find out what upcoming issues I could expect to have to deal with, so I could make an educated decision. It is obvious everyone here has a higher budget than I do, and they would run from this car for something more expensive and newer, so I guess that is a moot point. Maybe everyone is seeing a happenstance that could turn into an opportunity as me wanting to actively car shop, which I can assure you it is not. This same car at a dealer would be $9k in my area.

Uncle Lizard
Sep 28, 2012

by Athanatos

Ok Comboomer posted:


If you need a fun daily to take the pressure off of your old GLI get a Civic or a Fit or a Corolla or an old 350Z or Miata (or a manual CRV like I didn’t do). Hell, get a Gen 3/4 Cabrio.

I daily drive a 35 year old Jetta GLI and I was suggested to buy a Civic, a Carolla, or a CRV? A FIT? I feel offended for some reason. I need a shower.

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Uncle Lizard posted:

I daily drive a 35 year old Jetta GLI and I was suggested to buy a Civic, a Carolla, or a CRV? A FIT? I feel offended for some reason. I need a shower.

my dude, I was shopping for a GTI until I tried a Honda manual transmission. They’re that good.

NA Honda engines are that good.

They rev to 7k and the VTEC kicks in (yo) and they go BWEEEEEEE all around the block while getting 35 mpg, and most importantly they do this all day, every day, for like 300k miles with minimal fussing and barely any maintenance beyond oil changes, etc which is ultimately what you want in a daily/winter driver—this goes double if you’re plowing $1k a month into a project car that’s your baby.

A good daily in this context is a car that’s good and fun and comfortable enough while letting you beat the absolute poo poo out of it without worrying that it’ll cost you, so you can save your project car dollars getting your project car sorted without having more 35 year old poo poo go wrong/break/deteriorate on it.

And if something does happen, new/used/OEM/third party/aftermarket/upgrade/tuner parts for a Civic are more plentiful and cheap than they are for pretty much any other model of car in the world.

Wanna tune the gently caress out of your civic? Drop it? Turn it into a racer? Quarter mile car? Autocross? Rallycross? And the engine will take it. Coilovers? Sure thing. Short shifter? Of course. Control arms? You want them anodized in a stupid color?

Civics are fun cars, Honda has 100x the racing and motorsports pedigree that VW has.

Uncle Lizard
Sep 28, 2012

by Athanatos

Ok Comboomer posted:

my dude, I was shopping for a GTI until I tried a Honda manual transmission. They’re that good.

NA Honda engines are that good.

They rev to 7k and the VTEC kicks in (yo) and they go BWEEEEEEE all around the block while getting 35 mpg, and most importantly they do this all day, every day, for like 300k miles with minimal fussing and barely any maintenance beyond oil changes, etc which is ultimately what you want in a daily/winter driver—this goes double if you’re plowing $1k a month into a project car that’s your baby.

A good daily in this context is a car that’s good and fun and comfortable enough while letting you beat the absolute poo poo out of it without worrying that it’ll cost you, so you can save your project car dollars getting your project car sorted without having more 35 year old poo poo go wrong/break/deteriorate on it.

And if something does happen, new/used/OEM/third party/aftermarket/upgrade/tuner parts for a Civic are more plentiful and cheap than they are for pretty much any other model of car in the world.

Wanna tune the gently caress out of your civic? Drop it? Turn it into a racer? Quarter mile car? Autocross? Rallycross? And the engine will take it. Coilovers? Sure thing. Short shifter? Of course. Control arms? You want them anodized in a stupid color?

Civics are fun cars, Honda has 100x the racing and motorsports pedigree that VW has.

A Honda would be stolen and parted out so fast in my neighborhood, plus I just don't like Hondas, and they are stupid expensive. Anything Japanese comes at a premium, in my area at least, that just isn't worth it for me, but I do understand what you are saying.

I might seem how long this car sits there, give them a call, and see what is going on with it at least. If the timing belt needs to be done, it's a deal breaker.

TheBacon
Feb 8, 2012

#essereFerrari

My first car was an 07 GTI with the same engine that I put about 100k miles on myself taking it pretty decently past the 100k mark, 140 or so, before I totaled it. Timing belt was expensive because VW but not really so bad, $1500 in the Bay Area roughly a decade ago. The only thing that was ever unexpected was my CV boots tore otherwise normal maintenance that frankly wasn’t bad at all.

That engine does have a cam follower issue where they can wear through and grenade the engine though. From what I remember this is only really a problem if the engine is tuned and pushing more boost.

Personally I think you could do a lot worse if you are a VAG guy. Hell I’d consider it too if I got good juju from talking to the owner!

rally
Nov 19, 2002

yospos

Uncle Lizard posted:

A Honda would be stolen and parted out so fast in my neighborhood, plus I just don't like Hondas, and they are stupid expensive.

Dumbest post / reasoning for buying a VW ever. BUY THAT AUDI NOW

Woolwich Bagnet
Apr 27, 2003



Uncle Lizard posted:

It is obvious everyone here has a higher budget than I do, and they would run from this car for something more expensive and newer, so I guess that is a moot point.

If people with higher budgets would run from it, that should be a major clue about what it's going to cost to maintain/repair it when things break.

You seem to just be asking the question because you want reinforcement of a decision you've already made, so go for it. Buy it.

rally
Nov 19, 2002

yospos

TheBacon posted:

My first car was an 07 GTI with the same engine that I put about 100k miles on myself taking it pretty decently past the 100k mark, 140 or so, before I totaled it. Timing belt was expensive because VW but not really so bad, $1500 in the Bay Area roughly a decade ago. The only thing that was ever unexpected was my CV boots tore otherwise normal maintenance that frankly wasn’t bad at all.

That engine does have a cam follower issue where they can wear through and grenade the engine though. From what I remember this is only really a problem if the engine is tuned and pushing more boost.

Personally I think you could do a lot worse if you are a VAG guy. Hell I’d consider it too if I got good juju from talking to the owner!

Cam follower issue affects bone stock cars into the 8.5s whether they admit it or not ask how I know.

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!
when I have a very tight budget, I make sure to spend 100% of it on a German convertible with a reputation for needing expensive maintenance and repairs and breaking all the time

Uthor
Jul 9, 2006

Gummy Bear Heaven ... It's where I go when the world is too mean.

TheBacon posted:

My first car was an 07 GTI with the same engine that I put about 100k miles on myself taking it pretty decently past the 100k mark, 140 or so, before I totaled it. Timing belt was expensive because VW but not really so bad, $1500 in the Bay Area roughly a decade ago. The only thing that was ever unexpected was my CV boots tore otherwise normal maintenance that frankly wasn’t bad at all.

Hello, are you me? My 07 was fine until about 100k. After that, it started burning a lot of oil and I started having electrical gremlins (passenger door wouldn't lock, keyfob stopped working, etc) and the headliner fell down at around 130k. Paid about $800 for the timing belt in Central IL. CV boots were torn, too! (I still have the axles that I bought but never installed, if anyone has need...) wrecked it around 135k.

I guess the biggest issue was the A/C went out under warranty and then again 3 years later and I didn't fix it the second time.

Uncle Lizard
Sep 28, 2012

by Athanatos

rally posted:

Dumbest post / reasoning for buying a VW ever. BUY THAT AUDI NOW

It's not a reason to buy a VW/Audi, it's the cases against getting a Honda. For reference, the car I'm looking at would be around $9k at a dealer near me, but a Honda Accord of the same year and mileage would be $13k. I also see multiple spots in town where tweakers are just posted up on the side of the road with 5 Hondas wrenching on them and parting them out. A friend of mine had his Honda stolen about once a month by the same person for almost a year until dude when to prison for something else. Plus, I just don't care for Hondas, which is why I'm not asking about Hondas in the Honda thread. I'm good.

Minnesota Mixup posted:

If people with higher budgets would run from it, that should be a major clue about what it's going to cost to maintain/repair it when things break.

You seem to just be asking the question because you want reinforcement of a decision you've already made, so go for it. Buy it.

All I heard people say was triple my budget, buy newer, buy Japanese, so I get something more reliable, and while decent advice, is not really relevant to the situation.


TheBacon posted:

My first car was an 07 GTI with the same engine that I put about 100k miles on myself taking it pretty decently past the 100k mark, 140 or so, before I totaled it. Timing belt was expensive because VW but not really so bad, $1500 in the Bay Area roughly a decade ago. The only thing that was ever unexpected was my CV boots tore otherwise normal maintenance that frankly wasn’t bad at all.

That engine does have a cam follower issue where they can wear through and grenade the engine though. From what I remember this is only really a problem if the engine is tuned and pushing more boost.

Personally I think you could do a lot worse if you are a VAG guy. Hell I’d consider it too if I got good juju from talking to the owner!

rally posted:

Cam follower issue affects bone stock cars into the 8.5s whether they admit it or not ask how I know.

This is the kind of information I am looking for, so thank you. From what I was reading, the issues with this car are typical issues that just come with owning a newer VW/Audi.


Ok Comboomer posted:

when I have a very tight budget, I make sure to spend 100% of it on a German convertible with a reputation for needing expensive maintenance and repairs and breaking all the time

$4k is a tight budget for a beater car now? I don't need the car either, so I could easily just not get any car and be in the same situation I am right now. I'm just trying to gather information about this year and model of car from people's personal knowledge and experiences if they have them.

I will drive by the car today and see if it has a manual transmission, because that would make it a real easy decision if it was an automatic. I am also going to dive in and tackle my tail light issue on my GLI today since my other project got put on hold.

Uncle Lizard fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Aug 21, 2021

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MunchE
Sep 7, 2000

Uncle Lizard posted:



$4k is a tight budget for a beater car now? I don't need the car either, so I could easily just not get any car and be in the same situation I am right now. I'm just trying to gather information about this year and model of car from people's personal knowledge and experiences if they have them.


People keep telling you this $4k car will likely cost you $10k after broken poo poo and be older and shittier than a car you buy for $10k and you say you can't afford $10k, which is why people are saying your budget is tight.

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