League of Legends: This New Champion Slaps

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > League of Legends: This New Champion Slaps

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

"Hero that punishes the enemy team for killing them" is a pretty well-tread territory in mobas; Skeleton King lets out a large aoe slow on fake death, Vengeful Spirit used to halve the damage of whoever killed her for a while, Amun-Ra would let out an explosion and deal 10-30% bonus damage on resurrection, if Nightmare Superman was killed he'd debuff the enemies' resistances & revive if they died while debuffed. I'm sure there's more that I'm neglecting to remember.

I don't think it's something Riot wants to dive into, for various reasons.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 00:10

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 07:58

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

oh man amun-ra was the poo poo, I miss that boy

murky punishes you for killing him by immediately respawning and you just wasted a minute chasing him

# ? Aug 22, 2021 01:10

strong bird: May 12, 2009

Nightmare Superman

# ? Aug 22, 2021 02:05

Buckwheat Sings: Feb 9, 2005

I miss early season Ryze pingpong ball ult. Where it was basically a super version of Brands ult.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 02:43

Darke GBF: Dec 30, 2006; The cold never bothered me anyway~

strong bird posted:

Nightmare Superman

Infinite Crisis was a game that technically existed, at one point.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 02:50

njsykora: Jan 23, 2012; Robots confuse squirrels.

The funny thing is Ryze is stupidly good right now, especially in soloq where everyone bunches up constantly in fights.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 02:50

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

Darke GBF posted:

Infinite Crisis was a game that technically existed, at one point.

It was terrible when it was first opened to closed beta, but by the time it was released had become pretty solid, shame it got shuttered because it wasnt making WB infinite money instantly.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 02:52

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

Neurolimal posted:

I don't think it's something Riot wants to dive into, for various reasons.

Seems like the same principle behind not having denying really.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 03:21

Vermain: Sep 5, 2006

SKULL.GIF posted:

Seems like the same principle behind not having denying really.

It's more that they've decided that their current form of lane manipulation is more appropriate for League's dynamic, since denying an enemy CS requires positioning changes and trading versus simply last hitting your own guys. This is something League - with its greater resource pools and shorter cooldowns - is better suited for compared to DotA.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 04:10

SKULL.GIF: Jan 20, 2017

Vermain posted:

It's more that they've decided that their current form of lane manipulation is more appropriate for League's dynamic, since denying an enemy CS requires positioning changes and trading versus simply last hitting your own guys. This is something League - with its greater resource pools and shorter cooldowns - is better suited for compared to DotA.

That's actually what I meant, current League is heavily weighted around positive action vs. negative action, and "is empowered on death" is much more heavily weighted towards the latter than the former.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 04:28

njsykora: Jan 23, 2012; Robots confuse squirrels.

Gets to do stuff after death is also established at this point as Karthus and Sion's thing.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 04:29

TheAnomaly: Feb 20, 2003

njsykora posted:

Gets to do stuff after death is also established at this point as Karthus, and Sion's thing.

Kog'Maw as well.

Gets to not die is Trynd, gets to hurt enemies who are trying to hurt them is Rammus, turns damage into health/shield is TK (and, to a lesser extent, Pyke), turns damage into shield and damage back is Sett.

There are items that deal with how damage is taken, how health is regenerated, and reflecting damage (Deaths Dance, Warmogs, Steraks Gauge, Thornmail, etc) as well. I don't get exactly what this person expects, other than wanting

There are quite a few champs who play around with either wanting to take damage, death not stopping them, or just otherwise not caring about getting hit.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 05:45

gyrobot: Nov 16, 2011

TheAnomaly posted:

Kog'Maw as well.

Gets to not die is Trynd, gets to hurt enemies who are trying to hurt them is Rammus, turns damage into health/shield is TK (and, to a lesser extent, Pyke), turns damage into shield and damage back is Sett.

There are items that deal with how damage is taken, how health is regenerated, and reflecting damage (Deaths Dance, Warmogs, Steraks Gauge, Thornmail, etc) as well. I don't get exactly what this person expects, other than wanting

There are quite a few champs who play around with either wanting to take damage, death not stopping them, or just otherwise not caring about getting hit.

They are "selfish" death passives, not selfless death passives where your team is imparted with some post mortem buff from making a good sacrifice play.

Another thing is we haven't seen in a kit someone who doesn't just no sell a projectile like Braum and Yasuo but reflect a projectile with shield health being the only thing that keeps them from just sending everything back for a more direct anti-ability loadout, so having a mechanic where they turn heals to shields is a new gimmick.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 21:23

TheAnomaly: Feb 20, 2003

gyrobot posted:

They are "selfish" death passives, not selfless death passives where your team is imparted with some post mortem buff from making a good sacrifice play.

Another thing is we haven't seen in a kit someone who doesn't just no sell a projectile like Braum and Yasuo but reflect a projectile with shield health being the only thing that keeps them from just sending everything back for a more direct anti-ability loadout, so having a mechanic where they turn heals to shields is a new gimmick.

The last part (turning heals to shields) is literally a rune. It's also a bad idea, as it's then subject to two possible reductions (serpents blade and grievous wounds). Selfless death passives are also a bad idea, as the counterplay is to not attack the tank, something that tanks actively want to avoid (and something players are already trying to do). Taking the damage in the first place is the "selfless" part of it - that's the entire mentality of "tanks" in games like this. You take the damage so other people do not. The power budget of tanks is designed to give other players reasons to attack the tank instead of their group in the first place - usually through crowd control, healing, and/or buffs. "brawlers" are the class in the game that gets tanky and deals damage as the reason to attack them. If you build someone meant to take damage, and their schtick is "when I tank damage my team gets better," and the power budget is wrapped around that concept, then no one is going to damage you until everyone else on your team is dead.

As for your "reflect damage while shielded" that's Annie. That's what her shield does. You want to make Annie's shield a passive? do you realize how big a part of your characters power budget that will be? What's left for your character to make people attack them? Why would they? they won't give you an engage and a taunt with a shield that reflects... that's Rammus. They won't give you hard CC to go along with it because you already have passive shielding that reflects damage. You won't do enough damage to force people to attack you, unless you are building damage items, but then you won't have the health to make your passive worthwhile. That character idea is bad, unless you are talking about a short term damage mitigation effect that reflects damage and can't be coupled with your speed up, and maybe a taunt, and like an ult that's aoe damage that hurts turrets and can be used in combo with your speed up as a kind of jumping engage. But then you're playing Rammus.

They used to have damage reflection, btw, on a couple of champs - old Galio being the one I can think of, thornmail and Annie's shield used to be a % of incoming damage instead of a flat number as well. They dropped that idea because it's too much of a power budget for a sustainable character. Can you imagine what they'd have to do to Yas if his wind wall didn't just stop projectiles, it reflected them? They'd have to cut his crit bonus and the damage on all his abilities. Those "ideas" also conflict severely with the base idea of the game - earn gold, buy items, get stronger. If your character turns the damage back on an attacker then they are actively harming themselves by getting stronger. The only person who I think has damage reflection tied into their kit is Sett, and he has a cap and it comes out in an avoidable ability.

Heck, they've even gotten rid of most of the items that give you any benefit from being hit. I think Steraks is the last one - catalyst and it's completed items used to do it, too, but Riot has decided against that form of mechanic, at least in a widespread format. It just not a good idea, it's not fun to play against, and the counterplay for it is limited.

They have an anti-ability loadout, it's called Rammus. You seem to want to play Rammus, just play Rammus already.

# ? Aug 22, 2021 23:57

Tosk: Feb 22, 2013; I am sorry. I have no vices for you to exploit.

Drive-by posting to say that Pyke and Viego are examples of absolutely garbage champion design and I consider them the new age Master Yis in terms of the complete lack of ability they require to faceroll the opponent. Seriously, Riot? Pyke's ult resets off champions that still have 25-30% of their hp left and Viego literally resets item cooldowns. I hate them.

# ? Aug 23, 2021 00:13

gyrobot: Nov 16, 2011

TheAnomaly posted:

The last part (turning heals to shields) is literally a rune. It's also a bad idea, as it's then subject to two possible reductions (serpents blade and grievous wounds). Selfless death passives are also a bad idea, as the counterplay is to not attack the tank, something that tanks actively want to avoid (and something players are already trying to do). Taking the damage in the first place is the "selfless" part of it - that's the entire mentality of "tanks" in games like this. You take the damage so other people do not. The power budget of tanks is designed to give other players reasons to attack the tank instead of their group in the first place - usually through crowd control, healing, and/or buffs. "brawlers" are the class in the game that gets tanky and deals damage as the reason to attack them. If you build someone meant to take damage, and their schtick is "when I tank damage my team gets better," and the power budget is wrapped around that concept, then no one is going to damage you until everyone else on your team is dead.

As for your "reflect damage while shielded" that's Annie. That's what her shield does. You want to make Annie's shield a passive? do you realize how big a part of your characters power budget that will be? What's left for your character to make people attack them? Why would they? they won't give you an engage and a taunt with a shield that reflects... that's Rammus. They won't give you hard CC to go along with it because you already have passive shielding that reflects damage. You won't do enough damage to force people to attack you, unless you are building damage items, but then you won't have the health to make your passive worthwhile. That character idea is bad, unless you are talking about a short term damage mitigation effect that reflects damage and can't be coupled with your speed up, and maybe a taunt, and like an ult that's aoe damage that hurts turrets and can be used in combo with your speed up as a kind of jumping engage. But then you're playing Rammus.

They used to have damage reflection, btw, on a couple of champs - old Galio being the one I can think of, thornmail and Annie's shield used to be a % of incoming damage instead of a flat number as well. They dropped that idea because it's too much of a power budget for a sustainable character. Can you imagine what they'd have to do to Yas if his wind wall didn't just stop projectiles, it reflected them? They'd have to cut his crit bonus and the damage on all his abilities. Those "ideas" also conflict severely with the base idea of the game - earn gold, buy items, get stronger. If your character turns the damage back on an attacker then they are actively harming themselves by getting stronger. The only person who I think has damage reflection tied into their kit is Sett, and he has a cap and it comes out in an avoidable ability.

Heck, they've even gotten rid of most of the items that give you any benefit from being hit. I think Steraks is the last one - catalyst and it's completed items used to do it, too, but Riot has decided against that form of mechanic, at least in a widespread format. It just not a good idea, it's not fun to play against, and the counterplay for it is limited.

They have an anti-ability loadout, it's called Rammus. You seem to want to play Rammus, just play Rammus already.

Ability Reflect as in "I throw a skillshot at you and it drops a windwall that migitates damage from abilities and sends a projectile back at you" type of tank along with abilities that can let the champion soak hits through similiar items like Knights Vow or Zeke's covergence.

gyrobot fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Aug 23, 2021

# ? Aug 23, 2021 00:44

Ra Ra Rasputin: Apr 2, 2011

You got to be careful with the numbers on passive damage reflect, I still remember playing reworked Sion after they reworked thornmail and I could literally stand still and shield on cooldown and ADCs would melt themselves from 100% to 0% before my actual health even dropped below 70%.

# ? Aug 23, 2021 01:05

Monicro: Oct 21, 2010; And you could feel his features in the air
A wide smile and perfect hair
He had complete control of the rising tides
And a medicine bag hanging at his side

In the flowing blue world of the death-dealing physician

Viego is cool

# ? Aug 23, 2021 01:50

Weird Pumpkin: Oct 7, 2007

Monicro posted:

Viego is cool

Though I appreciate that he's a crazy handsome vampire man

# ? Aug 23, 2021 01:56

SlyFrog: May 16, 2007; What? One name? Who are you, Seal?

What about a champ that gets stuck in dragon pit and needs help from step-brother?

# ? Aug 23, 2021 02:25

Barudak: May 7, 2007

SlyFrog posted:

What about a champ that gets stuck in dragon pit and needs help from step-brother?

Flash->Ghost

# ? Aug 23, 2021 02:27

Taciturn Tactician: Jan 27, 2011; The secret to good health is a balanced diet and unstable healing radiation; Lipstick Apathy

TheAnomaly posted:

They have an anti-ability loadout, it's called Rammus. You seem to want to play Rammus, just play Rammus already.

rammus doesn't fulfill their humilation kink and he's not anything like the main character of shield hero

# ? Aug 23, 2021 04:24

SSJ_naruto_2003: Oct 12, 2012

i just built serpent's fang on Ahri in a clash game.

did 2500 with it in one fight

(the enemy team was mordekaiser, lee sin with steraks, yasuo with shieldbow, kaisa, and nautalis with locket)

# ? Aug 23, 2021 05:18

njsykora: Jan 23, 2012; Robots confuse squirrels.

Serpents Fang is a terminally underrated item right now, shield reduction and lethality in one convenient package!

# ? Aug 23, 2021 05:30

Hellioning: Jun 27, 2008

Serpents Fang is many things, but I wouldn't call it 'terminally underrated', except perhaps by idiots.

# ? Aug 23, 2021 06:36

njsykora: Jan 23, 2012; Robots confuse squirrels.

Hellioning posted:

Serpents Fang is many things, but I wouldn't call it 'terminally underrated', except perhaps by idiots.

Oh no my rank has been uncovered.

# ? Aug 23, 2021 06:56

Phenotype: Jul 24, 2007; You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.

Champion that is a truck (not an adorable yordle driving a truck, the champion is the truck itself). It is not a magic speaking truck, it is just a regular 18 wheeler that the summoner is driving remotely. And ON DEATH since its not alive it cant die so it just blows up and stays on the field and then your teammates have to bring you a replacement alternator and a change of tires from the nexus.

e: also if you buy chemtank then when you explode it deals poison damage in a persistent aoe until the EPA sends a cleanup crew. If you die in the river then the river is poisoned forever.

Phenotype fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Aug 23, 2021

# ? Aug 23, 2021 07:00

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

Blizzard were too cowardly to add Rock 'n Roll Racing to the roster, it's time for rito to step up to the plate

# ? Aug 23, 2021 10:34

Barudak: May 7, 2007

A Champion who can permanently cut down the jungle on both sides of the map, destroying the ecosystem forever

# ? Aug 23, 2021 11:18

SlyFrog: May 16, 2007; What? One name? Who are you, Seal?

Barudak posted:

A Champion who can permanently cut down the jungle on both sides of the map, destroying the ecosystem forever

Welcome, Summoners, to the first look at Chiquita, The Profiteer.

# ? Aug 23, 2021 15:05

fnox: May 19, 2013

give morde his ghost dragon back, cowards.

# ? Aug 23, 2021 19:59

Pussy Quipped: Jan 29, 2009

Monicro posted:

Viego is cool

He�s really fun to play as, but every time I do I can�t help but feel bad for the enemy team because he feels loving awful to play against.

# ? Aug 24, 2021 03:23

Hellioning: Jun 27, 2008

njsykora posted:

Oh no my rank has been uncovered.

I apologize that was rude.

In any event Serpent's Fang is a good item that is purchased frequently against me who likes playing champions that have shields and it makes me sad.

# ? Aug 24, 2021 03:27

pog boyfriend: Jul 2, 2011

screaming league season 3 server until my throat gets hoarse

# ? Aug 24, 2021 13:00

fnox: May 19, 2013

I seem to just be realizing how hilarious it is that they're nerfing Wits End, the noob trap item since the beginning of the game. how much time did that have in the limelight, like, 2 patches?

Hellioning posted:

I apologize that was rude.

In any event Serpent's Fang is a good item that is purchased frequently against me who likes playing champions that have shields and it makes me sad.

stats wise it was the best second item for any champion that wants lethality first, being 400g cheaper than Youmuus with a stronger passive. it getting knocked down to the 12 lethality range means that youmuus is back to being the go to second item.

fnox fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Aug 24, 2021

# ? Aug 24, 2021 13:40

Super Librarian: Jan 4, 2005

pog boyfriend posted:

screaming league season 3 server until my throat gets hoarse

I'd play the poo poo out of this

# ? Aug 24, 2021 14:03

Firebert: Aug 16, 2004

https://twitter.com/LoLUKN/status/1430183868640993294

karthus ruined

https://twitter.com/LoLUKN/status/1430184371613483008

the poochie of leauge

# ? Aug 24, 2021 16:08

Weird Pumpkin: Oct 7, 2007

Viego's design looking kinda lame, Sona looking cool as always

I wonder if it's going to be a pentakill performance at worlds this year. I'm really not into metal at all, so I think it'd be the first opening ceremony I'd just sort of skip. NGL I was kind of hoping for another True Damage performance, or maybe even something more straight up hip hop focused

# ? Aug 24, 2021 16:14

njsykora: Jan 23, 2012; Robots confuse squirrels.

Pentakill was meant to be the thing last year if I remember right, but they couldn't get the recordings done in time.

# ? Aug 24, 2021 16:17

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 07:58

Super Librarian: Jan 4, 2005

New Pentakill Sona design is lame, I liked her straight hair look instead of pigtails like every other skin

# ? Aug 24, 2021 16:46

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