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Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



eufy amazon tencent apple samsung sony

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Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
LinkedIn Intel Google Microsoft Apple Netflix Uber Twitter Salesforce

wilderthanmild
Jun 21, 2010

Posting shit




Grimey Drawer
Google Oracle Amazon Twitter Salesforce eBay

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Facebook Uber Cisco Kroger Yahoo! Oracle Unilever

gnatalie
Jul 1, 2003

blasting women into space
Facebook Apple Google Microsoft Amazon Netflix

:confused:

anyways. in figgie land in houston, it's not terrible (the figgies, houston itself is another story)

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
So, in my Google recruiter email before my onsite, they asked me for any "people I know at Google". How much does this "count"? Is it worth tapping into a deep network of people I worked with 2-3 jobs ago? I was always under the impression that it didn't really count for much but in the email they seemed to suggest I should just fire out names.

Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!

Good Will Hrunting posted:

So, in my Google recruiter email before my onsite, they asked me for any "people I know at Google". How much does this "count"? Is it worth tapping into a deep network of people I worked with 2-3 jobs ago? I was always under the impression that it didn't really count for much but in the email they seemed to suggest I should just fire out names.

I was asked. I dropped some names. Names didn't get contacted.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
my names did get contacted when i was interviewing at the goog, which is to say that you can never expect consistency in recruiter behavior

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008
anyone know what people mean when they say staff engineer at apple, given near as i can tell apple doesn’t have a position with that name.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

FamDav posted:

anyone know what people mean when they say staff engineer at apple, given near as i can tell apple doesn’t have a position with that name.

Above senior below principal.

wilderthanmild
Jun 21, 2010

Posting shit




Grimey Drawer

FamDav posted:

anyone know what people mean when they say staff engineer at apple, given near as i can tell apple doesn’t have a position with that name.

This confused me too after 3 years not looking at new jobs.

It's essentially a "super senior". Above seniors, but below principal developers. It's becoming a standard step on the developer/non-manager ladder at a lot of companies from what I can tell.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


What you're seeing now is my normal state.

This is Senior Engineer.

And this…this is Senior Engineer past Senior Engineer. You could call this “Senior Engineer II”.

And THIS

IS TO GO

EVEN

FURTHER BEYOND

wilderthanmild posted:

This confused me too after 3 years not looking at new jobs.

It's essentially a "super senior". Above seniors, but below principal developers. It's becoming a standard step on the developer/non-manager ladder at a lot of companies from what I can tell.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

gbut
Mar 28, 2008

😤I put the UN🇺🇳 in 🎊FUN🎉


:same:

JehovahsWetness
Dec 9, 2005

bang that shit retarded
We renamed "Lead Engineer" to "Staff Engineer" pretty recently because it confused the poo poo out of people, because you could be a "Lead Engineer" but not a "Project Lead". No other comp change or anything like that, just a find-and-replace.

gbut
Mar 28, 2008

😤I put the UN🇺🇳 in 🎊FUN🎉


My company shoved Staff between Senior and Principal recently, but because EM tracks with Staff instead of Senior now, the entire management corpus from there up got a band bump.

:smith:

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

JehovahsWetness posted:

We renamed "Lead Engineer" to "Staff Engineer" pretty recently because it confused the poo poo out of people, because you could be a "Lead Engineer" but not a "Project Lead". No other comp change or anything like that, just a find-and-replace.

We have Technical Lead Software Engineer (L4, above senior and below staff) which is confusing as gently caress to people outside the organization because TL software engineers don’t actually lead anything, but TLs (Team Leads) do. Both of these are distinct from a project lead which is not a title but an ephemeral designation within a team. It’s all very simple :v:

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Are the requirements for a staff engineer becoming more standardized as the title becomes more widely used? It seems like the requirements for the first three levels are pretty consistent from company to company and then things get to be a bit more idiosyncratic.

At sufficiently high levels the position description needs to be bespoke, but I can but that there's a good standard for what we're calling staff.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
I've interviewed places this loop where "Senior Engineer" is essentially a team or sub-ish-team lead, but then there's Staff and Principal. When I've asked for distinction most places just shrug their shoulders. At my last company, Staff usually meant "Tech Lead" responsibility while Senior was someone who had deep ownership in 1 or more projects.

FamDav
Mar 29, 2008

leper khan posted:

Above senior below principal.

thanks, so ICT5? i couldn’t find anything external that actually gave name to them so wasn’t sure.

ultrafilter posted:

Are the requirements for a staff engineer becoming more standardized as the title becomes more widely used? It seems like the requirements for the first three levels are pretty consistent from company to company and then things get to be a bit more idiosyncratic.

At sufficiently high levels the position description needs to be bespoke, but I can but that there's a good standard for what we're calling staff.

it is flexible in terms of what the specific demands, but the overall conceit is that you are responsible for bridging technical, business, and organizational concerns across a sufficiently large focus area and acting as a representative and collaborator across the company. as always, staffeng has a much longer winded version https://staffeng.com/guides/what-do-staff-engineers-actually-do

it is still ambiguous at different companies, as some companies do use it to represent someone whose leading a relatively small focus area (1-2 teams, 15-20 people) and/or without a heavy focus on working across organizations. in my opinion this is probably top of senior bottom of staff and is mostly a place to promote people into rather than representative.

FamDav fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Aug 23, 2021

Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!
The typical thing for lovely managers in my company is to individually call individual people "the tech lead," send them into a workgroup, and wonder why there's so much chaos.

lifg
Dec 4, 2000
<this tag left blank>
Muldoon
Does anyone here work for Amazon in their Boston office?

I'm looking for a job, and an Amazon recruiter emailed me. I'm kind of interested, but I know of two people who joined and immediately quit after a few months. ("It's not a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.") I reached out to them on LinkedIn, but I'd like to hear other people's experience as well.

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

lifg posted:

Does anyone here work for Amazon in their Boston office?

I'm looking for a job, and an Amazon recruiter emailed me. I'm kind of interested, but I know of two people who joined and immediately quit after a few months. ("It's not a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.") I reached out to them on LinkedIn, but I'd like to hear other people's experience as well.

I know two people who joined and quit very quickly (one willfully, less sure on the other). Both of them said it was pretty regular to see people broken down crying at their desks. This is about 3-4 years ago.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
there was a nytimes report on the sheer amount of white collar peeps crushed by amazon

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html

KS
Jun 10, 2003
Outrageous Lumpwad
That article's pretty out of date. Example: anytime feedback was scrapped 5 years ago in favor of a once a year positive kudos and growth ideas thing. I genuinely tell candidates that AMZN is the best work life balance I've ever had -- I'm sure that varies team by team. My biggest frustrations aren't around work/life but growing bureaucracy.

lifg posted:

Does anyone here work for Amazon in their Boston office?

I'm looking for a job, and an Amazon recruiter emailed me. I'm kind of interested, but I know of two people who joined and immediately quit after a few months. ("It's not a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.") I reached out to them on LinkedIn, but I'd like to hear other people's experience as well.

Note here: Amazon has corporate offices downtown, the two Amazon Robotics (formerly Kiva) buildings in N Reading and Westborough, and Blink in N Reading. You are looking at wildly different cultures at each, so get clarification from your contacts.

Space Gopher
Jul 31, 2006

BLITHERING IDIOT AND HARDCORE DURIAN APOLOGIST. LET ME TELL YOU WHY THIS SHIT DON'T STINK EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW IT DOES BECAUSE I'M SUPER CULTURED.

KS posted:

That article's pretty out of date. Example: anytime feedback was scrapped 5 years ago in favor of a once a year positive kudos and growth ideas thing. I genuinely tell candidates that AMZN is the best work life balance I've ever had -- I'm sure that varies team by team. My biggest frustrations aren't around work/life but growing bureaucracy.

It’s out of date on specific practices, but there are a lot of sucky new things, too. For instance, take the stealth-PIP stuff that was shared with the world not too long ago, where managers are told not to tell people when they’re on the unregretted attrition lists until they hit the final, unrecoverable phases.

quote:

“Should I tell an employee that I entered them into Focus?” the question reads. The response: “Do not discuss Focus with employees. Instead, tell the employee that their performance is not meeting expectations, the specific areas where they need to improve, and offer feedback and support to help them improve.”

“If the employee directly asks, ‘Am I in Focus?’ you should answer honestly,” the response continues. “However, remind the employee that the use of a specific product should not be their take-away from the conversation, as there are important performance gaps they must address.”

Amazon is a huge company. Like any huge company, the experience can differ a lot between teams, and local culture can outweigh the larger organization sometimes. But, the overall culture involves highly adversarial HR practices, and one of the core principles of senior leadership is that you have to cull lower performers to keep the organization healthy. Maybe you’ve got a boss who doesn’t believe in that - but, if so, they’re going to be in conflict with their own bosses. And, if the person who’s shielding you from the lovely parts of big-Amazon moves on for whatever reason, then odds are that their replacement won’t be as good.

It’s possible to make a lot of money at Amazon, and you can work on neat technology and rack up some very impressive resume bullets. But, if you’re trying to find a healthy work/life balance, then it’s probably best not to think of it as your long term workplace.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Space Gopher posted:

It’s out of date on specific practices, but there are a lot of sucky new things, too. For instance, take the stealth-PIP stuff that was shared with the world not too long ago, where managers are told not to tell people when they’re on the unregretted attrition lists until they hit the final, unrecoverable phases.

Lmao

linked article posted:

Amazon instructs managers not to tell office employees that they are on a formal performance-management plan that puts their job in jeopardy unless the employee explicitly asks

lmaoooooo

Maybe I'm getting too old for being treated like dirt, but I can't imagine reading more than two or three articles about a company pulling poo poo like this and still putting the effort in to apply at a company like this

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
what i do when i get unsolicited inbound email from an amazon recruiter is to forward the last email with a counter saying "unsolicited unwanted and refused amazon recruiter emails", so it makes a little email chain

the email chain is currently 22 emails long. one day i bet itll get to 100. crossed over to and from unsolicited inbound linkedin too

Comb Your Beard
Sep 28, 2007

Chillin' like a villian.
I finally am getting a job offer! I gotta credit this thread for helping motivate me to get out there. $107k->$140k. Small-ish company in the logistics field. WFH but also local to me. PHP/Laravel which I like writing but exposure to React, react native, cloud tech, Git (we use svn and our own servers/sysadmins). I know the usual PHP warning but it is what it is.

Right now my plan is to accept it if LinkedIn and Google both fail. I know it's not insane money but I feel like it's a good change opportunity been with my current company 9 years. Can always look again in a few years and be in a better position.

downout
Jul 6, 2009

Comb Your Beard posted:

I finally am getting a job offer! I gotta credit this thread for helping motivate me to get out there. $107k->$140k. Small-ish company in the logistics field. WFH but also local to me. PHP/Laravel which I like writing but exposure to React, react native, cloud tech, Git (we use svn and our own servers/sysadmins). I know the usual PHP warning but it is what it is.

Right now my plan is to accept it if LinkedIn and Google both fail. I know it's not insane money but I feel like it's a good change opportunity been with my current company 9 years. Can always look again in a few years and be in a better position.

That's fair money. Even if you're in one of the top 5 COL areas, it's a great pay raise and still much more competitive than your previous compensation. Congrats!

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
Two interviews down, two to go at Google. First one was quite pleasant. Decently difficult problem to solve that wasn't like typical LC bullshit and my interviewer was both hands-off and hands-on enough. Second one was also an okay problem, but that was really the only good part of it. I laid out what I was thinking about when starting the problem, but then went on a tangent for a good five minutes before my interviewer pointed something out. I got really flustered when they gave me a hint that basically showed me I could circumvent the function I had been stuck on, but I got stuck on figuring out the "trick" (really just a formula) if you will. It was essentially the final line of the problem in an optimized capacity and I called out optimizations and brute force and why they were terrible for increasingly large datasets but still more than likely got a Lean No Hire / No Hire on that one because I was stumbling through the last piece like an idiot.

It's very jarring to be done with 4/6 Google interviews and not have a single problem that resembled anything like I saw on LeetCode.

spiritual bypass
Feb 19, 2008

Grimey Drawer
What's the verdict on take-home technical challenges like building a small application? Don't bother unless it's paid?
Also, what's the best way to ask them to pay you for it?

kayakyakr
Feb 16, 2004

Kayak is true

rt4 posted:

What's the verdict on take-home technical challenges like building a small application? Don't bother unless it's paid?
Also, what's the best way to ask them to pay you for it?

2-4 hours max time spent before asking for paid (in reality a take-home is replacing 2-3 phone and in person interviews. If you're asked to do a take-home and still expect a 5-8 touch interview cycle after, then that's too much).

Don't do anything business-related without pay.

Ideally, their take-home will be set up and ready to go. Creating stuff from scratch helps a lot less than completing tasks on an existing example project.

And most places asking you to do a take-home will accept you sharing an alternative small project, so you can always offer that. If I'm doing multiple companies with take-homes, I'll try to batch them up and offer to share the same project with each.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



rt4 posted:

What's the verdict on take-home technical challenges like building a small application? Don't bother unless it's paid?
Also, what's the best way to ask them to pay you for it?

depends on your tolerance and what you like. i won't do takehomes of much more than an hour but dont mind all-day interviews with whiteboards and stuff. some people hate interviews but dont mind sinking 4 hours of their personal time into something. my thoughts on this change dramatically based on how much i care about a particular posting - for a shot at a good enough job, we'll all eat a little poo poo. how much, how often, and what counts as "poo poo" is a pretty personal thing.

the "ask to be paid" thing is mostly an internet flex. do not do that for a job you actually want, because unless they're advertising doing that in big letters, they'll probably just laugh at you and move on. it's pretty unlikely that they'd actually be asking you to solve real business problems in an interview. i'm sure it's happened before, but it's not a risk that needs to be top of mind

jabro
Mar 25, 2003

July Mock Draft 2014

1st PLACE
RUNNER-UP
got the knowshon


kayakyakr posted:

2-4 hours max time spent before asking for paid (in reality a take-home is replacing 2-3 phone and in person interviews. If you're asked to do a take-home and still expect a 5-8 touch interview cycle after, then that's too much).

Don't do anything business-related without pay.

Ideally, their take-home will be set up and ready to go. Creating stuff from scratch helps a lot less than completing tasks on an existing example project.

And most places asking you to do a take-home will accept you sharing an alternative small project, so you can always offer that. If I'm doing multiple companies with take-homes, I'll try to batch them up and offer to share the same project with each.

I had a “take-home” in the middle of the pandemic that required to be in their office which was a 2 hour drive from my house. The test was 8 hours!, not paid, and basically updating a feature in their app. I told them my contract rate is $150/hour since they are obviously using interviews for free labor. Didn’t hear back after that.

kayakyakr
Feb 16, 2004

Kayak is true

jabro posted:

I had a “take-home” in the middle of the pandemic that required to be in their office which was a 2 hour drive from my house. The test was 8 hours!, not paid, and basically updating a feature in their app. I told them my contract rate is $150/hour since they are obviously using interviews for free labor. Didn’t hear back after that.

This is the way

marumaru
May 20, 2013



jabro posted:

I had a “take-home” in the middle of the pandemic that required to be in their office which was a 2 hour drive from my house. The test was 8 hours!, not paid, and basically updating a feature in their app. I told them my contract rate is $150/hour since they are obviously using interviews for free labor. Didn’t hear back after that.

i once had a "quick chat in the office" at 5:30PM (rushed there after work), ended up leaving the place at 10PM (everyone was still working). i did great and everyone wanted me there.
then their ~CEO~ walks in as i'm at the door and says "oh everyone liked you? good. wait, you have how many years of experience? lol. i know our job posting said X, but if you don't have enough years of experience i can pay you 40% of that, it's a great opportunity for you since you're new to the industry (we only hire SENIORS) and honestly if you weren't being recommended by the team i wouldn't offer you that good a deal"

i didn't take the job.

(they actually reached out MULTIPLE times over the years, joke's on them because i ended up taking a job that paid 4x as much as that initial posting lol)

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
Kinda reeling from my Google interview but also somewhat zen. There is no way I could have done better, even with a lot of LeetCode practice. That is not to say I did well at all, on the contrary, I just have no idea how I'd have practiced for the problems I got asked. It was totally the opposite of Facebook or Amazon or something which just yank LC problems. It was an extremely odd interview that felt to me like it boiled down to "can you solve this arbitrary problem very quickly but then also solve this follow-up that is also arbitrary?" and I realize that it only felt "odd" because I've been grinding LC.

I was not asked a single question about: Trees, BSTs, Heaps, Queues, any DP, any BFS/DFS, any sliding window problems, any "two pointer" problems, anything in the style of knapsack/combinatorics, no union find, no tries, and you guessed it: NO BINARY SEARCH!!!!

Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!
I was just attending this HackerX thing. I found out after signing up that it was looking for backend stuff specifically and just web in general. So I don't really fit in. It did give me the impression that everybody thinks my job is a QA man. I work in a validation organization and write a lot of software towards the act of doing that, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore, but I consider myself more of a tools person than anything. I don't think that reasonably helps me in the general industry regardless, and it certainly is useless for anybody looking for web stuff.

At this point, it really does look like I need to suck up some Linux kernel stuff that I'm being offered to work on in my current job and just pivot as a Linux kernel person.


Generally, what are they asking you then? Is it basically just list stuff? What about dynamic programming gunk?

I didn't realize that you're spacing these out over multiple days. I'm starting to think that next time I should just do that because then my voice won't go out and I won't get so worn down by the end, but that's a thing for another year.

Good Will Hrunting
Oct 8, 2012

I changed my mind.
I'm not sorry.
Don't wanna share specifics cause NDA but if you look at the list of common Google question types and subtract the ones I mention you can figure it out

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Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

I posted what I think is an interesting senior yjob opening over in the jobs thread

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3075135&pagenumber=113&perpage=40&userid=0#post517219700

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