(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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I would say you have to crawl before you learn to walk. In the case of Afganistan, 42 years of uninterrupted warfare has handicapped its development to such a point, that some sort of long term transitory phase is necessary. The Soviet Union under the guise of geopolitics put the cart in front of the horse and paid a heavy price. In terms of the Afgan people themselves, if they had supported the occupation, there would have been resistance to the Taliban and at least in a passive sense a choice has been made. So I wouldn't say the Taliban itself is worth supporting but that the end of the Civil War and the Afgan people making some type of decision over their future is worth supporting. It very well may be in the not to distant future, the worm will turn but a lot of development has to take place. (Also, I have a tough time calling the Taliban the proletariat when rural Afganistan is semi feudal. It is just they are so far behind they have to catch up.)
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Aug 24, 2021 05:53
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| # ? May 24, 2024 05:44 |
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https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/1429823558168064005
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Aug 24, 2021 08:08
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daddy issues 
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Aug 24, 2021 08:19
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exmarx posted:daddy issues
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Aug 24, 2021 08:31
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exmarx posted:daddy issues
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Aug 24, 2021 08:33
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exmarx posted:daddy issues
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Aug 24, 2021 08:33
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exmarx posted:daddy issues
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Aug 24, 2021 09:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/ProletariatRis1/status/1429850948982087700?s=19
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Aug 24, 2021 09:51
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exmarx posted:daddy issues
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Aug 24, 2021 10:02
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comedyblissoption posted:why stop there when you can also make fun of wolff for calling traditional marriage feudalism and robbing any discussion of context he's right
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Aug 24, 2021 10:41
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exmarx posted:daddy issues lol
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Aug 24, 2021 10:48
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:lots of leftist debates could be avoided if everyone would just stop being babies, get over themselves, and read Stalin
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Aug 24, 2021 10:59
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Aug 24, 2021 11:01
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https://twitter.com/asatarbair/status/1428886414456807426
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Aug 24, 2021 13:53
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exmarx posted:daddy issues
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Aug 24, 2021 14:26
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what are these "friends"?
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Aug 24, 2021 14:47
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V. Illych L. posted:a big part of the animating potential of marxism is that it identifies a progessive/revolutionary subject in an actual, roughly identifiable group of people. the dictatorship of the proletariat means the primacy of this revolutionary subject and its ability to impose its collective will (by necessity its own abolition) on society without maneuvering between bourgeois, peasant, petit-bourgeois, lumpenproletarian etc interests. leninism first and maoism in particular somewhat modified this picture by including the landless peasantry as a revolutionary subject, effectively noting that one could exploit the center/periphery dimension in less proletarianised economies, and lenin (and mao!) extent this to the analysis of imperialism and thus the strategy of revolution from the global economic periphery. i've been thinking about this post today and in regard to the western proletariat, i'm not sure i can agree. i don't think that there was ever an "agreement" to self-abolish. it was abolishment by the dominant classes - it was the bourgeoisie which decided to globalise. it was imposed. the descent into fascism we're seeing now in the west isn't because of a leftist dictat, which i think in a sense western leftism hasn't yet come to terms with. idpol has been the attempt to come to terms with neoliberalism, and it's failing.
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Aug 24, 2021 14:49
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and further to that point the destruction of the industrial proletariat in the west has become crippling for the left - what is the base for revolutionary action in the west now?
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Aug 24, 2021 14:51
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exmarx posted:daddy issues spectacular
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Aug 24, 2021 15:13
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Fauxbot posted:and further to that point the destruction of the industrial proletariat in the west has become crippling for the left - what is the base for revolutionary action in the west now? we are in a transformation process, it is not like there is no capability whatsoever the problem is that a good part of us here were born during or just after the absolute nadir of socialism - the fall of the USSR - and the subsequent reformation of class consciousness (or the recovery from the loving trauma if you prefer) is a generational process. A lot of people around the West are reinventing unionization to deal with what you posted above. Some of the greatest strikes in history happened in the last ten years and some entirely novel strategies have been developed and are being practiced, like agitation specifically oriented to go around the blocks that wal-mart and fast-food companies have against unionization. There have been Uber strikes/picketing in Europe and South America. Even more incredibly, even in tech, this privileged af sector, there is discontent and the growing seeds of organization. the pandemic made everyone drat sure about the absolute importance of logistics and how critically vulnerable it is to labor action, especially in the age of just-in-time and cost savings with no stockpiling or productive redundancy. longshoremen can stop dead any economic activity; without people to deliver things, it doesn't matter how much funny number goes up. there might not be much strength in an industrial proletariat as it was once, but there's absolutely a critical dependency to a new proletariat that is also learning how to fight in this new world. Who knows, it might even learn how to fight globally sooner rather than later
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Aug 24, 2021 15:32
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dead gay comedy forums posted:we are in a transformation process, it is not like there is no capability whatsoever i don't disagree with these things, and i think post-soviet trauma is an apt term! but my worry isn't in terms of militancy on the left - those who are around are doing our best. but if we look at your post we're looking at longshoremen - yes, always a leftist bastion. but the gig workers are the on the harshest edge of exploitation and the computer touchers are in their ideological infancy. my worry is that beyond the longshoremen the other demographics aren't really hitting the essentials of capitalism. i think it's a good thought that these fights are going to be more internationalist going forward, but i worry that the point where the western lumpen/proletariat moves from "alienation" to "oppression" en masse is going to be too late. what is to be done?
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Aug 24, 2021 15:57
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Fauxbot posted:and further to that point the destruction of the industrial proletariat in the west has become crippling for the left - what is the base for revolutionary action in the west now? *Points at dick*
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Aug 24, 2021 16:02
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tokin opposition posted:*Points at dick* *looks through microscope* too small for revolution, sorry
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Aug 24, 2021 16:08
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Fauxbot posted:and further to that point the destruction of the industrial proletariat in the west has become crippling for the left - what is the base for revolutionary action in the west now? The Democratic Party
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Aug 24, 2021 17:30
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Kaedric posted:I'll forgive the attempt to paint with a racist brush because I wasn't clear and there's many hot takes flying around currently. While there is practically zero doubt in my mind that any individual taliban soldier is literally a member of the 'proletariat', this means as much as saying that any individual american soldier is too. Far as I can tell, while yes they were getting rid of the imperialist dogs as is right and good, I don't think their struggle has anything to do with class beyond that. It's just replacing the folks at the top with another set of bourgeoisie, far as I can tell. SOrry for the being glib.
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Aug 24, 2021 17:34
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honestly after reading that article about the amazon worker in alabama I'm of the opinion that while marx was absolutely spot on with his class analysis, he was hilariously naive to be so optimistic as to suppose that better things are even theoretically possible like just getting thoroughly hosed over by the richest man on earth with your grandparents telling you to form a union and your response is "get with the times grandma I'm gonna sell poo poo on amazon one day"  we're hosed everything's hosed, sorry
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Aug 24, 2021 19:41
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Marx would have told you to grow up bitch
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Aug 24, 2021 19:44
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Southpaugh posted:Marx would have told you to grow up bitch
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Aug 24, 2021 19:48
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afterwards heading back to my place to gently caress because there is literally nothing left to do
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Aug 24, 2021 19:48
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Marx was just trying to cope
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Aug 24, 2021 19:51
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*hands a copy of Capitalist Realism to a CPI(M) member in Kerala* "I'm sorry but you have to give up now."
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Aug 24, 2021 20:27
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MeatwadIsGod posted:*hands a copy of Capitalist Realism to a CPI(M) member in Kerala* what's up with that
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Aug 24, 2021 20:32
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:actually that's a fair point as pretty much all AES has come from the imperial periphery as opposed to the heart of it The bourgeois is weaker and less culturally entrenched, the ideology of personal advancement rings hollow in places without even the pretense of social mobility, and the material demands are much more immediately lethal in consequence
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Aug 24, 2021 20:34
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https://twitter.com/natashabertrand/status/1430156807889203208?s=12
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Aug 24, 2021 20:57
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lmao communism is winning by doing next to nothing
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Aug 24, 2021 21:11
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Havana Syndrome sounds like a bad Frederick Forsyth novel
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Aug 24, 2021 21:13
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MeatwadIsGod posted:Havana Syndrome sounds like a bad Frederick Forsyth novel In a sense, it is.
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Aug 24, 2021 21:14
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In Training posted:SOrry for the being glib. Don't be sorry, I would have replied with the exact same statement (and have done!). That's why I felt the need to elaborate 
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Aug 24, 2021 21:43
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Fauxbot posted:i've been thinking about this post today it's not that there was an explicit agreement or treaty or something, it's just how social democracy worked out. a hundred small advances that never really got to the point of challenging the bourgeois political economy ended up making a new low-entropy position of relatively high degrees of compensation among the citizens of the imperial core in return for moving most of the actual productive labour out into the periphery. aided by new ideologies and technologies, this weird hybrid allowed people to gain a tremendous amount of buying power, but as you correctly note completely kneecapped the traditional left wing's power base and practically guaranteed a return to proletarisation in various sectors, such as what we're seeing in e.g. academia and public sector workers like nurses in some countries.
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Aug 24, 2021 22:14
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| # ? May 24, 2024 05:44 |
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V. Illych L. posted:it's not that there was an explicit agreement or treaty or something, it's just how social democracy worked out. a hundred small advances that never really got to the point of challenging the bourgeois political economy ended up making a new low-entropy position of relatively high degrees of compensation among the citizens of the imperial core in return for moving most of the actual productive labour out into the periphery. aided by new ideologies and technologies, this weird hybrid allowed people to gain a tremendous amount of buying power, but as you correctly note completely kneecapped the traditional left wing's power base and practically guaranteed a return to proletarisation in various sectors, such as what we're seeing in e.g. academia and public sector workers like nurses in some countries. Granted part of the issue (and arguably Marx/Engels had a bit of a blind side with this) is not seeing shifts in state directives outside the framework of a simple extractive dynamic. Social Democracy and Globalization were not "bottom up" responses but largely the result of political directives established by geopolitical circumstances. During the post-war era, frontline states in Europe needed to be bolstered while Asian allies needed to be rapidly developed to be a more effective frontline mechanism. The naivety is believing anything will actually change while the West is in charge, it won't. The priority if anything Ardennes has issued a correction as of 23:54 on Aug 24, 2021 |
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Aug 24, 2021 23:18
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