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Fur20 posted:so far the only starter civ that's really worked for me has been egyptians. i tried nubians but their hammer output is just dire. i could see zhou being really powerful with a lot of early game stability though. the mycenaens are really stable as well and you can build the forts anywhere in your territories. great for kickstarting your second city with districts as they'll usually produce two high yield industrial districts worth of hammers.
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Aug 24, 2021 20:27
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It's tough for me to tell how the Hitites compare to the Myceneans. They look weaker on paper, but its possible being able to forward-build their better unique unit outweighs the superior Mycenean era bonus + unique quarter in a straight fight. If you're taking the Hitites, you absolutely need to conquer a neighbor immediately. No two ways about it.
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Aug 24, 2021 20:43
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Game is really good.Chamale posted:Harappans are really strong if you can settle on rivers. So far, population and science seem to be king, same as in Civ. Eh, I'm not sure I agree. I've only played on civilization difficulty so far and haven't been able to test and compare everything yet, but it seems to me that you can very easily have too much science. My reasoning: 1) You really want to promote to the next era as soon as possible after you've built your unique district everywhere. Faster promotion means faster access to a new trait and more unique districts. 2) If you ever get in a situation where there's a long time between earning a gold star in one category and getting 7 stars in total then you've messed up. Fastest way to level up is to either not require gold stars or by making sure that when you get a gold star you've already 4 other stars (almost) ready. If you go science (and to a lesser extend agrarian) then you're much more at risk of getting this problem. 3) You'll always get science/agrarian/builder/expansion stars no matter what civilizations/focus you pick. If you can ensure that you'll always quickly get a money, influence, and/or military star each era then you'll advance faster than if you have to rely on getting gold stars in the usual suspects. 4) If you focus on science then you might not advance fast enough to keep up, meaning than you'll end up researching tech you don't need or won't use. To be honest, I think making sure you can advance when you get the 2nd science star is optimal w.r.t. being able to ignore or postpone useless techs as much as possible.
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Aug 24, 2021 21:41
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Gort posted:Is there a reason not to ransack the various animal dens early on? Presumably you could kill the animals that spawn for greater rewards than the ransack gives, but apart from that - like do they become a resource later if you leave them alone or something? they don't become resources or preservable tiles later on, but they will start spawning stateless units instead of animals if you leave them. hostiles will do as they do: if they can't find an empty territory they'll just attack your cities and ransack your tiles. peacefuls will move around aimlessly and gum up your ability to move through your own territory. i recall getting a spoils of 20 gold from exactly one group of hostile raiders, but i've fought a LOT of npc units and they usually don't drop anything at all. Vengarr posted:If you're taking the Hitites, you absolutely need to conquer a neighbor immediately. No two ways about it. the military-focused civs are generally a pass for me because i feel like as long as i handle engagements manually, i can do it just as well without their bonuses, which i can get somewhere else. i guess you could do a REALLY early rush with them but if you get lucky with your scouts and food, you can just do that with them too. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Aug 24, 2021 |
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Aug 24, 2021 21:49
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HUMANKIND PATCH BETA 1.0.2.116
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Aug 24, 2021 21:54
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Fur20 posted:they don't become resources or preservable tiles later on, but they will start spawning stateless units instead of animals if you leave them. hostiles will do as they do: if they can't find an empty territory they'll just attack your cities and ransack your tiles. peacefuls will move around aimlessly and gum up your ability to move through your own territory. They should count towards the militarist stars iirc.
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Aug 24, 2021 21:59
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Walh Hara posted:Game is really good. I agree. Even if you go pure science from the beginning, it's quite difficult to earn Science stars relative to the others.
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Aug 24, 2021 22:07
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Danann posted:They should count towards the militarist stars iirc. ohhhh yeah they will! gosh i don't usually get a militarist star past the classical era
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Aug 24, 2021 22:24
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I had an AI spawn with the "+2 str versus other religions" and take the people that get the elephant archers, which turned into a grinding era long war which I slowly won, then we had another start up really fast over the territory I claimed out of the war, which started ok and then took a nosedive when they got the +7 str event and launched a huge attack. On another note, the "balance of power" preview bar doesn't seem to take temporary buffs into account. I haven't tried it, but stacking some of those "+str on ransack" bonuses and just rolling around someone's territory ransacking everything you can and settling wars for just cash and might be extremely strong.
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Aug 24, 2021 22:32
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I like how most nations have a secondary type in addition to the one they're scored on. In some cases, the secondary type is actually stronger than their primary type. Like the Turks are agrarian, but they're much better at producing science than they are food. And the British are.... ....expansionist? Probably? But are also better at producing science than the French are, though the French bonus probably eventually overtakes theirs, the British bonus science is absolutely bananas if you've been expanding at all. How the gently caress does this not have the free relationship boost to player 3? Am I the only one who reported this? Fur20 posted:so far the only starter civ that's really worked for me has been egyptians. i tried nubians but their hammer output is just dire. i could see zhou being really powerful with a lot of early game stability though. Every civ will probably look poor in hammers next to the Egyptians, but provided you actually do have a lot of luxuries, the Nubians should have a high stability, and therefor should be able to build more Makers Quarters.. You should also be using your infinite money to buy units rather than ever bothering to build them, and you might also consider using it to finish off the last couple of turns of districts, specifically Makers Quarters, which get bonuses from being near your stuff that you'll be building. It's not a mistake that the Meroe Pyramids give you bonus money for being near Makers Quarters. And it's no mistake that Meroe Pyramids also exploit industry. So you'll want to get them up ASAP. They're very powerful early districts. Nubians should have one of the higher hammer outputs of the era, provided you have the luxuries to spam out districts. EDIT Also, customize our own AI when, Amplitude? I have enemies to build. Veryslightlymad fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Aug 24, 2021 |
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Aug 24, 2021 22:41
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There's a bug with Soviets for sure. I think it's their unique district? Playing as Soviets tanked my framerate to 1 fps... Reloading and switching to a different culture fixed it. So don't play Soviets I guess
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Aug 24, 2021 22:52
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This is important for my coming decisions, is "release [x]" one of the things you can demand when you kick someone's rear end in war? These annoying pricks I'm about to squish vassalized my best friends.
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Aug 24, 2021 23:04
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Walh Hara posted:Game is really good. My experience on Humankind difficulty is that science doesn't create a problem with getting stars too quickly. Especially because, in the mid-game, you should be beelining to a military tech or Patronage, not grabbing cheap techs. However, it can create a problem in the end game where you have so much science that the game ends before you can use your advantages, unless you start demolishing your own Research Quarters.
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Aug 24, 2021 23:07
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I am starting to loathe the simultaneous turns. It feels like a horrid micro/attention tax frustratingly biased in favor of the AI. I've been in many situations where I could've run away...if I had the micro of a god and could click on and move my unit. It doesn't really feel like it fits in a 4x game.
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Aug 24, 2021 23:14
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Veryslightlymad posted:Every civ will probably look poor in hammers next to the Egyptians, but provided you actually do have a lot of luxuries, the Nubians should have a high stability, and therefor should be able to build more Makers Quarters.. You should also be using your infinite money to buy units rather than ever bothering to build them, and you might also consider using it to finish off the last couple of turns of districts, specifically Makers Quarters, which get bonuses from being near your stuff that you'll be building. It's not a mistake that the Meroe Pyramids give you bonus money for being near Makers Quarters. And it's no mistake that Meroe Pyramids also exploit industry. So you'll want to get them up ASAP. They're very powerful early districts. ah ok, i thought they'd only get synergy bonus from commerce quarters. i just wasn't building enough makers because i thought they wouldn't give the bonus. poo poo i gotta try em again!
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Aug 24, 2021 23:46
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love to make it to the industrial era before I've even found the new world or researched gunpowder
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Aug 25, 2021 00:07
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Research def scales pretty bad, like you get sooo much that even at under 200 turns in I won because I could research the last techs in 1 or 2 turns each..
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Aug 25, 2021 00:27
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Completing the tech tree is a weird-rear end win condition. Imo there should be a repeatable fame-granting tech instead…
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Aug 25, 2021 00:34
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Not sure if this was clear to people but Public ceremonies are permanent, repeatable city upgrades. You can boost food, influence, stability, faith, and relevant if you're making a mega food/unit training city, +5 experience each with the Parade ceremony.Veryslightlymad posted:EDIT You can? Unless I'm misunderstanding, you can create and customize traits, and download new ones whenever you want from their silly website. Speaking of, in case anyone is doing this if you don't change other AI avatars, you'll get the same behavior from them every game. It's determined by the avatar traits, not by what nations they pick during the game. appropriatemetaphor posted:Research def scales pretty bad, like you get sooo much that even at under 200 turns in I won because I could research the last techs in 1 or 2 turns each.. what difficulty?
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Aug 25, 2021 00:35
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Eimi posted:I am starting to loathe the simultaneous turns. It feels like a horrid micro/attention tax frustratingly biased in favor of the AI. I've been in many situations where I could've run away...if I had the micro of a god and could click on and move my unit. It doesn't really feel like it fits in a 4x game. In conflict situations I try to assign the moves for the next turn and then keep the mouse in the corner after clicking "end turn", the "complete unit moves" will always be the first icon in the circle and it's clickable even if there's some other notification that pops up.
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Aug 25, 2021 00:36
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Jinnigan posted:how did you get the warscore the take their city? I simply killed the two armies they had laying around (two scouts each) and then took their capital. That was enough to take it and their only remaining outpost in the deal. James Totes posted:It's not like it's a big deal. All 'bars' overflow. It's not like anything gets 'wasted', the production is always used. Just like science where if you can't research anything continues to 'build' so you're that much closer to the next tech you click. While it's true that all the overflow production will eventually carry over to a bigger project, being able to crank out a ton of districts in a single turn is better for snowballing your growth, so I'd say missing out on that is a pretty big deal. I also wonder how district costs are being calculated in that scenario. Districts are like Civ VI in that they get more expensive for each new one you build, right? So what happens when you build multiple at the same time? In a other games with similar concepts, you've been able to bypass the additional cost by building them at the same time, so I wonder if that holds true here as well.
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Aug 25, 2021 00:37
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victrix posted:You can? Unless I'm misunderstanding, you can create and customize traits, and download new ones whenever you want from their silly website. I think you have to grind through a tonne of achievement like goals during a playthrough to unlock most of the different personality traits and motivations... I think. maybe. possibly. those might be for higher difficulty bonuses though?
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Aug 25, 2021 00:41
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I also wonder how district costs are being calculated in that scenario. Districts are like Civ VI in that they get more expensive for each new one you build, right? So what happens when you build multiple at the same time? In a other games with similar concepts, you've been able to bypass the additional cost by building them at the same time, so I wonder if that holds true here as well. One of the bugfixes in the patch notes was that queuing up districts made them cheaper overall. So yes, it does do that right now, but it's a bug that they're fixing. Vengarr posted:Completing the tech tree is a weird-rear end win condition. Imo there should be a repeatable fame-granting tech instead… I kind of like it because it allows me to end the game quickly when I'm ahead.
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Aug 25, 2021 00:47
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Clarste posted:One of the bugfixes in the patch notes was that queuing up districts made them cheaper overall. So yes, it does do that right now, but it's a bug that they're fixing. I knew it. That's a classic oversight that somehow works its way into every strategy game one way or another. It's nice that they're fixing it already. It took Paradox 8 years to fix the EU4 bug where you could buy multiple techs at a discount when you were behind, as long as you bought them all on the same day. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Aug 25, 2021 |
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Aug 25, 2021 01:20
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Clarste posted:I kind of like it because it allows me to end the game quickly when I'm ahead. yeah people are complaining it's too fast but I'm liking that I'm actually seeing the later eras instead of grinding to a halt part way into a civ game the very end conclusion part does feel a bit quick for contemporary, cuz the stacked bonuses by that point are nuts also not clear to me how much game difficulty is affecting people's perception
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Aug 25, 2021 01:21
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appropriatemetaphor posted:There's a bug with Soviets for sure. I think it's their unique district? Playing as Soviets tanked my framerate to 1 fps... Well that's good to know cause I took the Soviets a while ago in this game to try and finish out a militarist rear end in a top hat game, just haven't gotten around to producing one of their districts yet.  I dunno why, but this game was absolute hell for stability. For the first time ever I felt like I couldn't just spam districts mindlessly. I dunno if it's because I didn't go Zhou for once, didn't really work on religion til way too late, or just didn't have the luxuries because spawn locations. Hard to tell but it was so hard. Even more I'm like 3000 fame behind the AI so basically looking at the only victory being wipe everyone out.
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Aug 25, 2021 01:39
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OH MY GOD The loving "free relationship bonus for player three" is even worse than it first appears. Like, let's say you lock player 3 as a Megalopolist player. Well, hey, now they're sharing maps with everyone in whatever continent they're in and suddenly every other fucker from halfway across the world will invest in influence with the independent peoples and essentially get to colonize in the classic or medieval era, long before anyone can cross an ocean. It's bad. This bug is so, so loving bad.
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Aug 25, 2021 01:52
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victrix posted:what difficulty? On Nation. Gonna kick up the difficulty next time.
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Aug 25, 2021 02:17
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The game isn't civ, it's a combo building game about pulling off whacky poo poo before your friends do it. Much more like a board game than Civ ever was. I'm friends with spiffingbrit and potatomcwhiskey and here's the ways to break the game straight from the horses mouths: 1. Neolithic is the most important era 2. Always go production 3. You don't ever have to go farms 4. Never go merchant civs 5. Always auto explore 6. It's all about the combos So basically if you don't get the food and discovery bonuses early you're permanently and forever behind everyone else who did, which makes the beginning of the game more RNG based than I otherwise would like. Auto explore scouts will always find discoveries so you're supposed to auto explore from the get go until you run into food sources. The no farm strat is by using Babylon and their districts so the scientists print food instead. Turkeys also banned in our games because you can just end the game like 30 turns earlier than normal with the research tree, but I digress. The autowin combo right now is Egypt into Maya into Khmer and you'll be able to build three things a turn and no one can catch up, not even people who find the new world. That leads to the next point that if you don't combo between eras you'll lose or not do nearly as well as you should.
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Aug 25, 2021 02:38
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Vengarr posted:Completing the tech tree is a weird-rear end win condition. Imo there should be a repeatable fame-granting tech instead… the repeatable should be some random weakassed tiny bonus, like +1 stability on city center. +1 science on city center maybe 1 fame, sometimes. i'm not so sure about giving that out though, because that's the big catch-up mechanic. you can still gain a ton of fame and win without having a chance at competing with the biggest and strongest players, and i like that tbh.
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Aug 25, 2021 02:45
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You CAN'T force release a vassal, but you can steal the vassal's previous territory for yourself, but they won't even want it anymore. For all that I am enjoying this game, goddamn, some of these systems are stupid.
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Aug 25, 2021 02:57
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Doltos posted:The game isn't civ, it's a combo building game about pulling off whacky poo poo before your friends do it. Much more like a board game than Civ ever was. I'm friends with spiffingbrit and potatomcwhiskey and here's the ways to break the game straight from the horses mouths: I'm just going to point out that while auto-explore is a useful tool to point you to a close resource, it does absolutely nothing in terms of plotting a best course between multiple resources. Neolithic units also don't have pathfinder, which pans out to certain areas taking a lot of time to go through, and if the technically closest resource is there it'll path you there. I've had better success in using a mix of auto-explore where I have no direction but manual move when there is a better area for movement. With the harder difficulty requiring more resources per star I consistently get out of neolithic before almost every AI opponent. It sort of sounds like your games don't have any aggressive players, because saying "I have an auto-win combo if no one fucks with me for 4 eras and no one else beats me to the next era" is sort of hilarious. Especially in a game where only 1 person can pick a culture, a lot of this stuff tends to balance out where someone will figure out a way to blaze through an era to beat you to a vital pick, or take a strong war setup and not let you get there, or work with other players to kneecap you in other ways. I think it'll be a while before more of the game gets 'solved', and I wouldn't be surprised if other setups are just stronger than that anyways. I'd be interested in seeing if the egyptian->mayan players could survive someone going mycenean->celts and just burying them in Gaesatis for example.
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Aug 25, 2021 03:29
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I think the general idea of going industry over focusing on food is the better tactic though. Those civs just give you bonuses for that strategy, but going hard on industry early on just feels right.
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Aug 25, 2021 03:32
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On my first game, I picked three Agrarian cultures (Celts, Haudenosaunee, Turks) and zero builder cultures, and I came close to tripling my closest opponent's score, and I built the mission to Mars in three turns anyhow. Population is still incredibly strong.
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Aug 25, 2021 03:45
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Population gives you production and production gives you food. Past the very beginning, they're kind of the same thing?
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Aug 25, 2021 04:28
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Is there a way to stop an enemy outpost from forming? I am in the Ancient Era and a neighbor plopped down an outpost right before I could. I thought I could use my two scouts to ransack it before it formed, but that doesn't seem to do anything except waste my turn. Do I have to wait for it to form and then ransack? Edit: I think it actually works the way I thought but you have to continue to choose the ransack each turn? ccubed fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Aug 25, 2021 |
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Aug 25, 2021 04:36
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The ransack should be ongoing, it takes multiple turns for an outpost and they should do it with needing to be ordered again.
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Aug 25, 2021 06:16
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Eimi posted:I am starting to loathe the simultaneous turns. It feels like a horrid micro/attention tax frustratingly biased in favor of the AI. I've been in many situations where I could've run away...if I had the micro of a god and could click on and move my unit. It doesn't really feel like it fits in a 4x game. If you need micro then you want to have 2 moves in row. Just don't micro, ever.
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Aug 25, 2021 06:22
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Veryslightlymad posted:OH MY GOD Also they didn't fix it in the beta? Neither they fixed the "full squadron of planes gives 70k gold upkeep"? Or am I reading the patch notes wrong..
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Aug 25, 2021 06:23
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i'm using the beta and resources still seem really low? if there was oil and uranium in the game i just did, it was wholly on the new world continent
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Aug 25, 2021 06:52
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