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Neo_Crimson posted:Qanon is basically the Satanic Panic 2.0 so it all tracks. Hell it has the same exact major plot points, just with slightly different window dressing
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Aug 23, 2021 02:35
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Samuel Clemens posted:That doesn't strike me as any weirder than people thinking a DnD session is literally a satanic ritual. Reading the articles the dude who started that bullshit wrote for Jack Chick's site was a trip. Dude claimed he was a satanist, a wiccan, and a freemason either at the same time or within short succession.
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Aug 24, 2021 05:11
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I think during the satanic panic there was a small cottage industry of "reformed satanic priests" able to give all sorts of lurid details to various media personalities.
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Aug 24, 2021 05:15
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OwlFancier posted:I think during the satanic panic there was a small cottage industry of "reformed satanic priests" able to give all sorts of lurid details to various media personalities. Most of the people who went on daytime talk shows claimed to merely be dabblers, who went to satanic rituals and merely saw babies being sacrificed and melted into candles, rather than being active participants. Inside the Evangelical media bubble, though? Yep, they would just freely admit to organizing mass rape camps for the sole purpose of sacrificing more babies by their own hand so that they could be melted into candles. But, then they would turn around and say that Jesus totally forgave them, so it's all good now, no need for any criminal investigation. Bill Schnoebelen, the Jack Chick collaborator that Twelve by Pies mentioned, was one of those types. (Don't forget that during his term as a literally-vampiric Satanic High Priest, he was also a Catholic priest as well, because as it turns out it's all the same!) You saw a resurgence of that sort of thing post-9/11, but with """ex-Muslims""" trying to get the truth about about the two hidden pillars of Islam and stuff like that. Sure, they were personally responsible for orchestrating suicide bombings in the most holy sites of Israel, but they're Christian now, so hey, everything's cool and no need for any authorities to get involved!
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Aug 24, 2021 07:47
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Twelve by Pies posted:Reading the articles the dude who started that bullshit wrote for Jack Chick's site was a trip. Dude claimed he was a satanist, a wiccan, and a freemason either at the same time or within short succession.
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Aug 24, 2021 08:53
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90s Cringe Rock posted:One of the Christian papers/magazines did a truly wonderful expose on Mike Warnke and it was on their website for years, but I think you have to go through archive.org or buy their book now. It had timelines, quotes from people around him, moon phase calculations, everything. I dont see an E-book option alas: https://www.amazon.com/Selling-Satan-Evangelical-Warnke-Scandal/dp/0940895072 I'm guessing if I google a tad deeper I'll start getting lots of q-pilled reccs. Those hogs really like to splash their cash around.
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Aug 24, 2021 12:32
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90s Cringe Rock posted:One of the Christian papers/magazines did a truly wonderful expose on Mike Warnke Ah, I wasn't talking about Mike Warnke though, as Crunch Buttsteak mentioned I was talking about William Schnoebelen. Here's the followup article he wrote years ago for Jack Chick, it's a direct response to people who took issue with his claims that D&D was a satanic game: https://www.chick.com/information/article?id=Should-A-Christian-Play-Dungeons-and-Dragons Throughout the article he talks about how he was a high priest in wicca who personally trained witches, that he personally watched the Necronomicon destroy people's minds and souls, that he was a satanist who practiced a form of magic based on Lovecraft's Cthulhu, and that he was one of the people who helped write the original D&D game rules. He also goes into a lot of detail and energy trying to back up claims that D&D really does drive people to become murderers or commit suicide, mostly claiming that anyone who has said otherwise has no proof to back up their statements.
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Aug 24, 2021 20:05
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Yeah, Warnke wasn't involved in Jack Chick stuff. His nonsense-peddling about having been a high priest of Satanism was used to jumpstart a successful career in Christian standup comedy, where he'd alternate between "family friendly" jokes and gruesome tales of animal sacrifices and other supposed Satanic activities he partook in. He was a pretty big deal in the 80s, even being interviewed on mainstream shows as an "expert on Satanism."
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Aug 24, 2021 21:35
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Surely there would be at least a few republicans who would object to a foreign power controlling America as well. Where are they? This is not an accurate summary of what people complaining about Russian interference believe. They, by and large, do not believe Russia was literally controlling the American government. They believed that the Russian government was promoting Trump because he was an easily-manipulatable moron who was soft on them and would damage relationships with allies. All of which happened. The reason republicans didn't object is that they thought he was *their* moron and they presupposed that he was controllable. The dissenting voices in the republican party were taken out behind the shed (see: Mitt Romney). By the time they found out that he was too much of a narcissist to fully control, he had already gotten support of their base, and publicly bad-mouthing him would hurt their re-election chances.
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Aug 25, 2021 00:41
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ryde posted:This is not an accurate summary of what people complaining about Russian interference believe. They, by and large, do not believe Russia was literally controlling the American government. They believed that the Russian government was promoting Trump because he was an easily-manipulatable moron who was soft on them and would damage relationships with allies. All of which happened. They may also not have protested much because Russian dark money is a serious funding source for the Republican party and conservative causes.
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Aug 25, 2021 03:28
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history is going to echo and rhythm when the puppet masters that KNOW its just about the dark money get outnumbered/replaced with true believers in Russia annexing the US.
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Aug 25, 2021 03:40
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Twelve by Pies posted:Ah, I wasn't talking about Mike Warnke though, as Crunch Buttsteak mentioned I was talking about William Schnoebelen. Here's the followup article he wrote years ago for Jack Chick, it's a direct response to people who took issue with his claims that D&D was a satanic game: there was a tom hanks movie about this thats on youtube in full, its pretty reat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpcL-fQNPfQ
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Aug 25, 2021 04:22
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The dvd cover is pure art because it promises not only Da Vinci Code-era Hanks, but also actual mazes and monsters:
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Aug 25, 2021 04:39
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:The dvd cover is pure art because it promises not only Da Vinci Code-era Hanks, but also actual mazes and monsters: It's also on Tubi, the best streaming service that has everything from The New York Ripper to Andy the Talking Hedgehog.
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Aug 25, 2021 04:51
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ryde posted:This is not an accurate summary of what people complaining about Russian interference believe. They, by and large, do not believe Russia was literally controlling the American government. They believed that the Russian government was promoting Trump because he was an easily-manipulatable moron who was soft on them and would damage relationships with allies. All of which happened. Eh maybe the more moderate Russiagate people think that, but there were a whole lot of people who thought that Putin was literally puppeting Trump's every move and anything the government did was dreamt up in the bowels of the KGB
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Aug 25, 2021 22:10
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Feldegast42 posted:Eh maybe the more moderate Russiagate people think that, but there were a whole lot of people who thought that Putin was literally puppeting Trump's every move and anything the government did was dreamt up in the bowels of the KGB I never heard that, unless you count statements like "Putin's puppet" which were obviously hyperbolic and not meant to be taken literally.
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Aug 25, 2021 22:15
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ryde posted:I never heard that, unless you count statements like "Putin's puppet" which were obviously hyperbolic and not meant to be taken literally. I heard them enough by earnest enough sources to know differently (the Rachel Maddow's of the world, for instance) https://twitter.com/alexandereylar/status/1428113363058397187?s=20 Honestly this confirmed a lot of things, that people who had their brains broken by one of our annual national tragedies / crisis's / defeats, found no help or comfort from the left or the democrats in explaining what went wrong, and so turned to reactionary thought to explain what happened. Given that everybody wrote this off in this thread I'm guessing this cycle is going to continue, instead of any kind of real effort to reach out to these folks after the next bad thing to happen in a couple of months Feldegast42 fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Aug 25, 2021 |
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Aug 25, 2021 23:00
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My biggest problem with that infograph is that it not-so-subtly implies that being a progressive leftist radicalized into activism by the Trump presidency is exactly equitable to getting pilled into QAnon. Pure centrist propaganda. (USER WAS PERMABANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 25, 2021 23:17
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Feldegast42 posted:Given that everybody wrote this off in this thread I'm guessing this cycle is going to continue, instead of any kind of real effort to reach out to these folks after the next bad thing to happen in a couple of months Probably a big reason for everybody writing it off is because things like "I was a liberal who thought pedophilia should be legal, but then I got radicalized because people called me racist for liking video games" is almost certainly not genuine.
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Aug 25, 2021 23:21
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Aside from that, a lot of people are looking for someone to blame, and "the [Jews/Elites/Democrats/Deep State/Etc.] did it" will often be accepted over a nuanced but accurate answer.
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Aug 25, 2021 23:36
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ryde posted:I never heard that, unless you count statements like "Putin's puppet" which were obviously hyperbolic and not meant to be taken literally. Luck you that you do not know who Jen Kirkman is.
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Aug 26, 2021 00:17
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Dang It Bhabhi! posted:Luck you that you do not know who Jen Kirkman is. I do not, and Ill take your word for it.
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Aug 26, 2021 00:43
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Twelve by Pies posted:Probably a big reason for everybody writing it off is because things like "I was a liberal who thought pedophilia should be legal, but then I got radicalized because people called me racist for liking video games" is almost certainly not genuine.
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Aug 26, 2021 00:47
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Froghammer posted:People who had vague anti-authoritarian sentiments, enough sense to know that neither political party had any interest in helping them, and desperately wanted someone to blame for the fact that life is just kind of objectively awful seem to be the bulk of the Q crowd. A shocking number of them voted for Obama. Many of them seem to have been activated to politics by Bernie in 2016. Politico had an interesting profile of a woman who tuned in in 2016 and subsequently fell down the Qanon rabbit hole a few months into Trump's term.
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Aug 26, 2021 00:53
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Koumpounophilia posted:My biggest problem with that infograph is that it not-so-subtly implies that being a progressive leftist radicalized into activism by the Trump presidency is exactly equitable to getting pilled into QAnon. Pure centrist propaganda.
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Aug 26, 2021 00:55
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Feldegast42 posted:
Yes they did. They simply did not like what they were hearing because it did not let them blame the people they hated, so they went for reactionary thought, which did let them do exactly that. gently caress each and every one of them.
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Aug 26, 2021 01:07
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Aug 26, 2021 01:14
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eSporks posted:Maybe its not-so-not-so-subtle because I don't see where it does this? The first box explicitly lists things like "progressive" or "the Bushes". The second box has 9/11, but the Trump election in general can be read as a crisis for progressives. The third box has general internet things like Youtube (Breadtube) and leftist internet spaces can fill in here as well. The fourth box is completely vague, but stuff like Marxist theory and such can absolutely be seen as "dogmatic" to a certain kind of centrist shithead. It's absolutely making a case for horseshoe theory and leftists being just as dangerous to society as Qultists.
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Aug 26, 2021 01:22
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I wouldn't for a single minute make the argument that extreme leftists are as dangerous to our society as qanon people, I don't believe that at all. I have, however, seen people who call themselves leftists radicalize into authoritarian extremists in a manner that sure seems similar to how the qanon / chud crowd have radicalized into straight-up fascists. The extremes on either end seem to be going off the deep end.
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Aug 26, 2021 01:26
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Aug 26, 2021 01:35
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There are anti LGBTQ+ leftists out there and even some who will straight up attack things like race issues as distractions from the class struggle, but I don't think that their extreme leftism is the cause of this since there are plenty of extremist leftists that aren't like that. So it seems like lumping the extreme left with the extreme right is pretty disingenuous, since it's literally impossible to be extreme right without being extremely bigoted in a way that isn't true for the left.
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Aug 26, 2021 02:15
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How are u posted:I wouldn't for a single minute make the argument that extreme leftists are as dangerous to our society as qanon people, I don't believe that at all. Yes, indeed, both sides. *nods sagely*
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Aug 26, 2021 02:21
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I would suggest that that is fundamentally a problem of trying to describe at least two different political positions as "extreme left" which, I mean you can perhaps do depending on what you imagine "left" to mean, but it does not make the two positions the same. Some people believe that there should be a powerful authoritarian government which will kill, imprison, or otherwise eliminate the wealthy from society and replace their control of the economy with the government, which advocates of this position may or may not believe should be democratically controlled. There are also people within that tendency (as there are across the political spectrum) who believe that things like racism and LGBT+ issues are not important, or they may be actively hostile to them, usually couching it in some notion of them being "bourgeois" and not a thing that their imagined working class people would ever do. There are, conversely, people who take the position that all forms of oppression are interlinked and that you can't separate them from one another without sacrificing your understanding of the whole problem. I would say that generally IME this seems to coincide with less of a desire for a big strong government dictatorship to start deciding who should be allowed to do what, given that a lot of the people with this position have had firsthand experience with that in practice and are probably rather skeptical that it would only be employed against the "correct" people and I would expect them to be generally more towards the anarchist side of things, wanting less central control where possible and relying more on local communal organization as much as possible to keep society working. You could describe both of these positions as "extreme left" but they don't generally get along with each other very well, and would probably find more in common with quite radically different political positions outside their own. And more importantly I think they represent two quite different forms of thinking and general understandings of how the world works, so while either might adopt the label of "leftist" I don't think it is very surprising that if they were to change their politics, that they would end up going in very different directions based on their very different prior understandings that happen to share the same label? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Aug 26, 2021 |
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Aug 26, 2021 02:30
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Koumpounophilia posted:The first box explicitly lists things like "progressive" or "the Bushes". The second box has 9/11, but the Trump election in general can be read as a crisis for progressives. The third box has general internet things like Youtube (Breadtube) and leftist internet spaces can fill in here as well. The fourth box is completely vague, but stuff like Marxist theory and such can absolutely be seen as "dogmatic" to a certain kind of centrist shithead. Progressives, SJWs, Bush, these are all things that Q followers become obsessively opposed to.
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Aug 26, 2021 03:45
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This is the last place where I would expect to find terminal bothsideism, but you do you. It is actually okay to hate terrible people who do and say terrible things, like every single QAnon gently caress. The idea that they are owed some sort of "help and comfort" from the left that doesn't already exist in order to not become pieces of poo poo is some bullshit blame game.
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Aug 26, 2021 04:14
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How are u posted:Many of them seem to have been activated to politics by Bernie in 2016. Politico had an interesting profile of a woman who tuned in in 2016 and subsequently fell down the Qanon rabbit hole a few months into Trump's term. I knew a bunch of vaguely liberal white dudes who didn't really do anything to be engaged politically or socially who became hardcore Bernie bro keyboard crusaders in the 2016 primaries. Then when Hillary clenched the nomination their brains just loving broke. Obviously Hillary was corrupt and stole it from Bernie so they had to show their support by reluctantly voting Trump. By the inauguration they were hardcore MAGA and really into pizzagate. From there they got into every conspiracy theory imaginable, also Bitcoin, and now are all Qanon types.
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Aug 26, 2021 18:30
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A bunch of those types were Ron Paul 2012 too, so it's less of a commitment to the ideals of democratic socialism and more "this guy says he hates the system" regardless of how or why.
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Aug 26, 2021 18:38
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Feldegast42 posted:Honestly this confirmed a lot of things, that people who had their brains broken by one of our annual national tragedies / crisis's / defeats, found no help or comfort from the left or the democrats in explaining what went wrong, and so turned to reactionary thought to explain what happened. Given that everybody wrote this off in this thread I'm guessing this cycle is going to continue, instead of any kind of real effort to reach out to these folks after the next bad thing to happen in a couple of months you want to do outreach to people who are desperately gulping down horse dewormer because that's safe but the vaccine isn't that's your business, best of luck
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Aug 26, 2021 22:30
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I'm having trouble figuring out the origin of the "Ivermectin = Covid cure" idea, anyone have links/info on who first advanced it? It's usually some rear end in a top hat like Dennis Montgomery or Larry Nichols. edit: 
Dang It Bhabhi! fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Aug 27, 2021 |
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Aug 26, 2021 23:44
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Feldegast42 posted:Honestly this confirmed a lot of things, that people who had their brains broken by one of our annual national tragedies / crisis's / defeats, found no help or comfort from the left or the democrats in explaining what went wrong, and so turned to reactionary thought to explain what happened. Given that everybody wrote this off in this thread I'm guessing this cycle is going to continue, instead of any kind of real effort to reach out to these folks after the next bad thing to happen in a couple of months You want to take a crack at reaching out to these people, knock yourself out, but don't act like you'd be the first to make "any kind of real effort to reach out to these folks." Plenty of people, often including family members and close friends, have tried to reach out to these loons and been rebuffed. The QAnon types want to believe in it, because it offers a story that is more comforting to them than reality. "Reaching out" to these people to try and bring them back to reality is somewhere between difficult and pointless because the fundamental appeal of QAnon-style beliefs is that it's not reality.
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Aug 27, 2021 00:15
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