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yeah but they were still just 2 different kinds of human ships though to be fair 99% of human Trek ships are just moving the nacelles around and smudging the saucer into various ovoid shapes
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Aug 24, 2021 23:52
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Snow Cone Capone posted:yeah but they were still just 2 different kinds of human ships I know this doesn't really affect the larger point, but I'm pretty sure there were 3
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Aug 24, 2021 23:59
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Nitrousoxide posted:S2E8+9 Grand Fromage posted:Yeah, I was a little disappointed that Union ships are apparently all just The Orville, but different sizes. Star Trek did better with having multiple ship classes that all share a common design ethos. Shakes fist at the Picard copy-paste fleet.
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Aug 24, 2021 23:59
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Snow Cone Capone posted:yeah but they were still just 2 different kinds of human ships Well lets wait to see the ships that all the other species that are big in the union have!
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Aug 25, 2021 00:02
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I'm kind of hoping the filming/covid delays gave the production team time to produce much more varied ship design/prop stuff.
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Aug 25, 2021 00:10
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Taear posted:Well lets wait to see the ships that all the other species that are big in the union have! ok but that's not really the point being argued, which is that the human ships on this show are extremely uniform compared to even Trek, which doesn't exactly go hog-wild on unique human ship designs
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Aug 25, 2021 01:09
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I mean there might be good in universe reasons for optimization But obviously that's just a writing conceit
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Aug 25, 2021 01:18
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Snow Cone Capone posted:ok but that's not really the point being argued, which is that the human ships on this show are extremely uniform compared to even Trek, which doesn't exactly go hog-wild on unique human ship designs But what you're saying doesn't make sense. In Star Trek there are no "human ships" outside of Enterprise - there are just Federation ships. So far in Orville there's human ships and then ships for each species, which is where the Union would get their different types.
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Aug 25, 2021 01:44
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There are more non humans obvious on the Orville than any given Enterprise The saucer and nacelles look in Trek is definely an earth legacy design even if they aren't explicitly human ships (although there are canonically all Vulcan crews in starfleet ships)
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Aug 25, 2021 01:49
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It’s because it’s easier for someone watching to go ‘oh those are ____’ rather than having to have some sensor officer tell the audience every time you big nerds.
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Aug 25, 2021 02:12
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TK-42-1 posted:It’s because it’s easier for someone watching to go ‘oh those are ____’ rather than having to have some sensor officer tell the audience every time you big nerds. But that's not the only two options? New Trek's kind of hosed it up, but before that you knew a Federation ship was a Federation ship the second you saw it, nobody had to explain anything. If Orville ships all had the same three ring engine thing on the back it'd be obvious they're human ships even if the rest of the ship were different.
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Aug 25, 2021 02:15
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The Orville has done a really good job of linking colors to the "big" races. Earth is blue, Krill are Green, Mochlans are Yellow, and Kaylon are red.
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Aug 25, 2021 02:20
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 When this guy showed up early TNG they didn't have to explain it was Federation, it was obvious. That's all we're saying. You can have common design features that tell the audience what they're looking at without having to state it in dialogue, or have all the ships be identical.
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Aug 25, 2021 02:21
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Some world building about why their ships look like they do could be cool I don't think they have a very big fleet though and maybe just have like 3 shipyards pumping them out. Why should they be different, other than visual interest? The fleet at the end already looked a thousand times better than the USS Ctrl-V in Picard
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Aug 25, 2021 02:24
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Grand Fromage posted:
Yea but that is not what Orville is doing Earth ships look a certain way, Moclan ones do, etc I guess we'll see if we learn more about the other races on the council. Possibly not if this is the last series.
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Aug 25, 2021 02:24
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Taear posted:Yea but that is not what Orville is doing I don't think the Orville is an "earth ship" though is it? It's a union ship, but those are explicitly Moclan ones Just like the red swoopy ships are Vulcan in Trek. They're literally aping that exact convention, are they not?
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Aug 25, 2021 02:27
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The Bloop posted:Some world building about why their ships look like they do could be cool Wasn't the whole justification in the pilot for Mercer getting his own command, that they are rapidly expanding and have like 3,000 ships and are lowering the standards a bit? Or is that a false memory on my part, I haven't seen it since it aired.
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Aug 25, 2021 03:25
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Goblin Craft posted:Wasn't the whole justification in the pilot for Mercer getting his own command, that they are rapidly expanding and have like 3,000 ships and are lowering the standards a bit? Or is that a false memory on my part, I haven't seen it since it aired. Sort of. The admiral told Mercer "You're nobody's first choice, but we need warm bodies in the captain's chairs." But later, we find that Kelly's father pulled some strings because he felt guilty about her cheating on him. So, kinda.
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Aug 25, 2021 03:43
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Well the main point was the number of ships.
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Aug 25, 2021 03:47
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Was really hoping the shuttles would have names by now. Other than Shuttle 1 and Shuttle 2. Statler and Waldorf to go with Ed's Kermit totem in his office.
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Aug 25, 2021 04:28
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Nobody's sure why or how, but they've been named Ned & Stacey
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Aug 25, 2021 05:59
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Its super weird to me that back in the day of physical models that were a huge pain to build and film we had more TV spaceship diversity than in the days of CGI. Even god drat star wars recycled their R1 star destroyer 3d model and scaled it up a bit for the big super fleet.
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Aug 25, 2021 06:05
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Iron Crowned posted:The Orville has done a really good job of linking colors to the "big" races. Earth is blue, Krill are Green, Mochlans are Yellow, and Kaylon are red. Big Races so far i hope
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Aug 25, 2021 13:42
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Baronjutter posted:Its super weird to me that back in the day of physical models that were a huge pain to build and film we had more TV spaceship diversity than in the days of CGI. Even god drat star wars recycled their R1 star destroyer 3d model and scaled it up a bit for the big super fleet. I remember reading somewhere that The Defiant was the first new ship design for Starfleet in Star Trek, and the fact is, it's iconic look with the nacelles underneath the saucer, was actually a mistake. When the design for the Miranda Class was presented, it was signed upside down, the nacelles were originally intended to be on top. It's not like they were building new ships for TNG all the time either. They had the giant Hero version of the Enterprise, and later a smaller one, but they frequently kit-bashed new ships together using off the shelf model kits, like the ones I know a lot of us nerds in this thread sloppily put together in our youth. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they did with the Stargazer a few posts up.
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Aug 25, 2021 13:56
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A kitbashed model will oftentimes be more visually interesting than 100 copy and paste jobs.
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Aug 25, 2021 14:05
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But how hard would it be to make model kits in a 3D render program and combine them into different ships make a dozen variants and copy paste them giving just a hint of variety.
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Aug 25, 2021 14:19
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The aft rings on the blue Union vessels are integrated with the function of the quantum drives, number and size of rings are related to the "power" of the drive effectively. Larger vessels require more and bigger rings.
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Aug 25, 2021 14:36
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pixaal posted:But how hard would it be to make model kits in a 3D render program and combine them into different ships make a dozen variants and copy paste them giving just a hint of variety. There are model packs of exactly this you can buy, renders of old model kit parts, and in fact if i remember right the star destroyers for rogue one were created using virtual kitbash parts that the original models were made from. This isn't like a traditional 3d modeling thing that you'd actually use for production, but its an interesting little application of those kinds of assets for virtual kitbashing, as a little example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwJdYxRwxoo Tom Guycot fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Aug 25, 2021 |
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Aug 25, 2021 14:53
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What we loose in variety of assets, we gain in complexity and uniqueness of shots. At the end of the day there's only so much time and money that can be spent on VFX and that's clearly where the balance is now.
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Aug 25, 2021 15:01
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bull3964 posted:What we loose in variety of assets, we gain in complexity and uniqueness of shots. At the end of the day there's only so much time and money that can be spent on VFX and that's clearly where the balance is now. Star Trek in 2020:  Star Trek in 1997: 
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Aug 25, 2021 15:43
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Christ, that Picard shot just looks SO BAD right next to the DS9 one. It's just incredible how poor that looks in every manner.
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Aug 25, 2021 15:50
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Gwaihir posted:Christ, that Picard shot just looks SO BAD right next to the DS9 one. It's just incredible how poor that looks in every manner. Wild that Lower Decks and the Orville are clearly the best Star Trek we've had on TV since DS9
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Aug 25, 2021 16:00
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Doggles posted:Star Trek in 2020: Most stuff about Picard was bad, I was specifically talking about The Orville.
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Aug 25, 2021 16:05
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Every now and then I try to access the Myself that was excited and looking forward to Picard But there's nothing there anymore, there's scar tissue there and a layer of dust with an unusually high level of silicates has settled on the surrounding area.
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Aug 25, 2021 16:06
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S2E12 It's remarkable how Klyden continues to have absolutely no character development. I guess the writers are doing a good job of keeping him consistent at least. That said, this was a very good episode. Very Star Trek.
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Aug 25, 2021 16:12
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Brawnfire posted:Every now and then I try to access the Myself that was excited and looking forward to Picard Everything I hear about Picard makes me glad I never watched it. My dad continues to attempt to convince me to watch Discovery, but has never said a word about Picard. This man loved Battlefield Earth.
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Aug 25, 2021 16:13
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Nitrousoxide posted:S2E12 He's a hyper-conservative dickhole, as a rule their whole shtick is refusing to develop their character at any cost
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Aug 25, 2021 16:15
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What sucks is they only had to make a few tweaks to the story to make it work, but they just completely fumbled the ball. Imagine instead of Picard trying to stop an ancient order of Romulans from genociding AI so they don't call space robot Cthulhu it was instead a story about Picard uncovering that Romulans were victimizing Borg survivors to scavenge tech to survive as a nomadic race without a home world and the Federation was complicit in the acts because it just wanted the Borg problem gone and out of guilt for not being able to help more in the evacuation. Sure, it would have been harder to shoehorn Data into that story, but it would have setup a lot more nuanced morality play that has links all the way back to "I, Borg".
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Aug 25, 2021 16:23
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Jeri Ryan was easily the best part of Picard and I think they realized it. But yeah, the "AIs will summon the apocalypse if threatened so it's in our best interest to threaten the gently caress out of them." Plot is so hideously overdone and I hate it.
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Aug 25, 2021 16:27
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The most grating thing about Discovery is that it's obviously written by and for dorky liberal overachievers who think everything can be solved by being the most adorkable workaholic I loving LOVE SCIENCE!!! nerd in the universe. Multiple episodes revolve around characters not telling another character something vitally important, because their boss might force them to take a day off of work. I am not exaggerating in the slightest. Orville only rarely dips into that ideology, like in the episode where LaMarr is destined become chief engineer in spite of himself, because he scored the highest on a standardized test. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Aug 25, 2021 |
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Aug 25, 2021 16:28
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