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Tsyni posted:I have no faith in the Liberals and would never vote for them. I also don't think their plan is great, I just think it's intellectually dishonest to frame it the way the poster framed it. I am sure it wasn't on purpose. This thread just seems needlessly depressing at times. I'm not sure there's a need to rigorously regurgitate the vaguest outlines of a plan, and the concrete parts all seem likely to stoke the housing market and therefore unlikely to get more people into homes. Seemed like a fair if ungenerous summary, even taking what was said at face value (which, as you point out, lol)?
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Aug 25, 2021 08:48
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Maybe Tysni should actually post about what part of that plan they think will "reduce prices". The entire thing is formulated to increase demand. That will do nothing but increase prices.
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Aug 25, 2021 12:28
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Drinking an IPA at a craft brewery in Barrie. Hold my beer while I vote for this guy please.
Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Aug 25, 2021 |
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Aug 25, 2021 13:27
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Postess with the Mostest posted:Drinking an IPA at a craft brewery in Barrie. Hold my beer while I vote for this guy please. Love to grab a friend with a beer. Hell, love to grab them without one too.
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Aug 25, 2021 13:53
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I'll admit I'm a big fan of Flying Monkeys though, so he made a good choice. Anyway re: housing policy, looks like more of the same as far as just handing out tax savings when the people who actually need housing help don't have any loving taxes that they can save on and certainly can't set aside money in TFSA: Part II. This is a big boon to people like me whose marginal tax rate is pushing past 50% and a middle finger to people on low income or in poverty who are just trying to hang on to their rental housing. Ending blind bidding and other regulatory shuffling is nice and all but why is everything still home purchase focused? Plenty of people cannot or don't want to purchase a house so how is no one putting forward an aggressive rental housing plan? There's just loving nothing. At the very least they need to start a massive building/purchasing push on rental housing that will be managed federally and at break-even rates. Force private landlords to compete against the government and whatever else you can think of. Slowly make private landlording as unappealing as possible by regulating the poo poo out of it. I dunno, I'm just throwing out whatever pops in my head at this point.
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Aug 25, 2021 13:55
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Fidelitious posted:I dunno, I'm just throwing out whatever pops in my head at this point. The problem is that you are capable of having thoughts in your head, which is more than I can say for the Liberals.
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Aug 25, 2021 14:13
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https://twitter.com/tompark1n/status/1430498604649693185?s=21 Trudeau is hosed
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Aug 25, 2021 14:15
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Trudeau specifically said in his announcement that they will build, preserve or repair 1.4 million middle class homes so I hope you can afford 500k+ houses
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Aug 25, 2021 14:21
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DariusLikewise posted:https://twitter.com/tompark1n/status/1430498604649693185?s=21 Here's what I don't understand. We have a total fuckup of a conservative party who will win by default if Trudeau implodes even though Jagmeet Singh has like a 54% favorability rating. Why does the NDP continue to be so toxic to the electorate that they can never entertain it as a serious alterative to the liberals? The media is also trying its hardest to Astroturf O'Toole like he's some kind of political maverick here to save the day with political masterstrokes.
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Aug 25, 2021 14:34
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Kraftwerk posted:Why does the NDP continue to be so toxic to the electorate that they can never entertain it as a serious alterative to the liberals? There's this commonsense idea that the NDP just can't win because they're intrinsically unserious, so that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And, as you note with the media bigging up O'Toole, it's not like the NDP has much media sympathy to raise them up. Rather, they stick around, popular but unsupported, and thereby function as proof that the Canadian electorate "means well."
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Aug 25, 2021 14:39
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Kraftwerk posted:Here's what I don't understand. We have a total fuckup of a conservative party who will win by default if Trudeau implodes even though Jagmeet Singh has like a 54% favorability rating. It's a combination of fear-mongering related to the NDP that isn't grounded in reality, but also some of their genuine issues (ie. They don't really have a formal platform out, sometimes they can sound pie-in-the-sky, they've announced some vague policies by tweet like the $5,000 for renters). Throw in the feeling that an NDP vote could enable a CPC victory or be a throwaway vote and you've got a pretty substantial inertia struggle. Oh and otherwise progressive folks especially in Quebec probably aren't keen on the turban man becoming PM.
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Aug 25, 2021 14:42
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A lot of this "Cons are beating the Libs in the POLLS!" smells like manufactured consent to me.
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Aug 25, 2021 14:46
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Capri Sunrise posted:Oh and otherwise progressive folks especially in Quebec probably aren't keen on the turban man becoming PM. I hate this, because it's really lovely to Quebecois, but then you look at the leadership approval polls and it's like the only place Jagmeet is in the single digits. Fried Watermelon posted:A lot of this "Cons are beating the Libs in the POLLS!" smells like manufactured consent to me. Happens every time too.
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Aug 25, 2021 14:46
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The NDP has no grassroots support outside small pockets of progressive people in major urban centers. The party could do way more than just say "hey we are a party, vote for us". They need to work way harder for votes but no one is smart enough to do that work because party leadership are just Liberal dropouts for the most part.
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Aug 25, 2021 14:49
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DariusLikewise posted:Trudeau specifically said in his announcement that they will build, preserve or repair 1.4 million middle class homes so I hope you can afford 500k+ houses Well, I guess I know where half that 1.4 million is meant to be coming from, that greener homes grant poo poo from earlier in the year where upper middle class people install overpriced solar panels and insulation for a small discount. quote:Up to 700,000 grants of up to $5,000 to help homeowners make energy efficient retrofits to their homes, such as better insulation
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Aug 25, 2021 14:56
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What was the fallout from that video the liberals edited that freeland posted? Was there any?
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Aug 25, 2021 14:57
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Keep in mind, from my Days working for the LPC( Thank gently caress I left) that internally we don't give a gently caress about the polls til like last two weeks of the campaign. Also if it looks like the cons are gonna win/get close to winning, alot of the Fairweather NDP support drifts to LPC for strategic voting (exception being 2011 but that was due to Iggy being probably the worst LPC leader in my memory)
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Aug 25, 2021 14:58
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DariusLikewise posted:The NDP has no grassroots support outside small pockets of progressive people in major urban centers. The party could do way more than just say "hey we are a party, vote for us". They need to work way harder for votes but no one is smart enough to do that work because party leadership are just Liberal dropouts for the most part. Remember when Singh played online games with people? Why aren't more politicians doing poo poo like that? It's (relatively) cheap, a decent way to get your message out to a younger audience that tends to be overlooked in the political climate, and it's actually something entertaining. Hell, even a once a week stream where you just chill out with some single-player games and talk to people and answer people's questions would be worlds better than what most politicians do.
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Aug 25, 2021 15:01
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ilmucche posted:What was the fallout from that video the liberals edited that freeland posted? Was there any? Too early to tell. However, the Nanos poll for today showed LPC +3.2 - which is a fairly significant bump from yesterday's virtual tie - and a few online politicos (including Nanos himself) are musing that the attack had the desired effect of putting O'Toole on the defense regarding his position on health care.
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Aug 25, 2021 15:03
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Randalor posted:Remember when Singh played online games with people? Why aren't more politicians doing poo poo like that? It's (relatively) cheap, a decent way to get your message out to a younger audience that tends to be overlooked in the political climate, and it's actually something entertaining. Hell, even a once a week stream where you just chill out with some single-player games and talk to people and answer people's questions would be worlds better than what most politicians do. You'd be surprised how little engagement relatively unknown MPs get (ie. We don't really have celebrity status ones like the AOCs or Crenshaws south of the border). I've personally known one who would drive to your home to chat on request but it's a very apathetic riding & they're largely a backbencher. Conversely, many are very apathetic or have party momentum locking in their seat so why bother? I do agree party leaders definitely have avenues they could expand their campaigns though.
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Aug 25, 2021 15:07
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Tsyni posted:I have no faith in the Liberals and would never vote for them. I also don't think their plan is great, I just think it's intellectually dishonest to frame it the way the poster framed it. I am sure it wasn't on purpose. This thread just seems needlessly depressing at times. How the hell is it dishonest?
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Aug 25, 2021 15:25
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the ndp have spent like 20 years running to the right of the liberals. why would any progressive support any of the campaigns they've run? the only thing the ndp have to offer with their current leadership and platform is an alternative to the liberals if you are really mad about their endemic corruption and can't stomach the conservatives
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Aug 25, 2021 15:29
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the talent deficit posted:the only thing the ndp have to offer with their current leadership and platform is an alternative to the liberals if you are really mad about their endemic corruption and can't stomach the conservatives When you put it like that you can see exactly what the NDP have been going for the last 20 years. Unfortunately for them, most of the people who want to vote for Liberals but... will still just vote for the Liberals.
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Aug 25, 2021 15:32
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the talent deficit posted:the ndp have spent like 20 years running to the right of the liberals. why would any progressive support any of the campaigns they've run? the only thing the ndp have to offer with their current leadership and platform is an alternative to the liberals if you are really mad about their endemic corruption and can't stomach the conservatives This is complete bullshit lol. Their platform right now includes student loan forgiveness, universal dental and psych healthcare, guaranteed living income, and the strongest housing plan out of all three parties. You could have argued this during the Mulcair days but that was what, 1 federal election?
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Aug 25, 2021 15:41
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Starks posted:This is complete bullshit lol. Their platform right now includes student loan forgiveness, universal dental and psych healthcare, guaranteed living income, and the strongest housing plan out of all three parties. You could have argued this during the Mulcair days but that was what, 1 federal election? "progressive" hero jack layton ran on a loving balanced budget. get out of here
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Aug 25, 2021 15:42
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Randalor posted:Remember when Singh played online games with people? Why aren't more politicians doing poo poo like that? It's (relatively) cheap, a decent way to get your message out to a younger audience that tends to be overlooked in the political climate, and it's actually something entertaining. Hell, even a once a week stream where you just chill out with some single-player games and talk to people and answer people's questions would be worlds better than what most politicians do. I mean like maybe the NDP should show up to some protest or maybe organize a few? Run some community outreach things, show up with food to a park and feed the homeless? Have a presence anywhere rural at all? The party is completely top down like the Libs and the Cons and I think people feel like when they try and get involved and they get nowhere. Hell just have local orgs that actually feel like they matter to the party.
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Aug 25, 2021 15:45
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Hootin and Hollerin https://twitter.com/bkives/status/1430540554664828936?s=20
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Aug 25, 2021 15:50
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DariusLikewise posted:Have a presence anywhere rural at all? Do the northern ridings in basically every province outside the Maritimes/Alberta not count?
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Aug 25, 2021 15:55
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DariusLikewise posted:I mean like maybe the NDP should show up to some protest or maybe organize a few? Run some community outreach things, show up with food to a park and feed the homeless? Have a presence anywhere rural at all? That stuff requires a politician to put in a modicum of actual effort though (though yeah, those are all firmly in the "poo poo politicians should do" list). I'm talking even just a bare-bones, 0-effort... effort to reach out and make themselves heard, that they're unwilling to do.
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Aug 25, 2021 15:56
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Low wages, instability to blame for restaurant industry labour shortage, workers sayThe Article posted:HALIFAX -- As restaurateurs across the country scramble to fill thousands of jobs, a common refrain has emerged: If the government wasn't paying workers to stay home, the labour shortage plaguing the restaurant industry wouldn't exist. Bolded parts mine. Between the horror stories of people fed up with low wage bullshit jobs and delusional owners who piss and moan about lazy people who don't want to work for pennies to meet their bosses' stupid profit margins, I'd be perfectly fine watching thousands of restaurants crash and burn so that the businesses that do treat their employees fairly and pay them a living wage can thrive.
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Aug 25, 2021 16:18
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RBC posted:Maybe Tysni should actually post about what part of that plan they think will "reduce prices". The entire thing is formulated to increase demand. That will do nothing but increase prices. He can't post anything anymore because he got owned so hard he banned himself. Arc Hammer posted:Bolded parts mine. Between the horror stories of people fed up with low wage bullshit jobs and delusional owners who piss and moan about lazy people who don't want to work for pennies to meet their bosses' stupid profit margins, I'd be perfectly fine watching thousands of restaurants crash and burn so that the businesses that do treat their employees fairly and pay them a living wage can thrive. https://twitter.com/GlobalBC/status/1429428141164929025?s=20 Boomers would rather work for free than increase wages for their children.
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Aug 25, 2021 16:24
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the talent deficit posted:"progressive" hero jack layton ran on a loving balanced budget. get out of here He's dead op Singh ain't amazing but his policies are obviously better than Jack's and Mulcair
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Aug 25, 2021 16:29
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DariusLikewise posted:Hootin and Hollerin I'm not convinced that even MB Conservatives are dumb enough to think that now is the time to instill a Harperite cop as their party leader.
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Aug 25, 2021 16:31
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the talent deficit posted:"progressive" hero jack layton ran on a loving balanced budget. get out of here My understanding is that they planned to do that by raising taxes and stopping corporate subsidies, which the liberals refused to do. Even if you think Layton was right of Ignatieff in 2011, they also got their best results ever that year so that seems to go against your argument.
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Aug 25, 2021 16:33
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the talent deficit posted:"progressive" hero jack layton ran on a loving balanced budget. get out of here And a bunch of other stuff. If you want to vote libs, go ahead, but this is nonsense
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Aug 25, 2021 16:39
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The NDP are just proof of leftist willing to eat their own. A party that promises 90% of leftist ideals will be shouted down for the 10% that they didn't commit to, and people would rather say inane things like "right of the liberals" than acknowledge the 90% of the promises that are to the left of the Liberals.
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Aug 25, 2021 17:00
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the talent deficit posted:"progressive" hero jack layton ran on a loving balanced budget. get out of here Post Media has been spamming apple news with a near constant diet of "Debt Debt DEBT DEBT DEBT INFLATION!!!!!" articles about profligate liberal spending. So in Canada at least, it seems that voters have traditionally been obsessed with debt, balanced budgets and keeping inflation to a minimum. It's like the ideal Canadian prime minister is either some jolly performatively progressive French Canadian or a cold, quiet, salt & pepper haired, tax accountant type of guy who falls awfully close to the uncanny valley and has low-key fascist tendencies. I'm not sure if this still applies today now that younger people are more involved. Still the NDP seems to think that they gain more legitimacy if they present themselves as a "fiscally responsible" party. I don't know how much of this comes from capital co-opting the party versus party bosses just trying to maintain their jobs/grift to sustain their financial situation. I'm not sure if this brand of neoliberalism is necessarily imposed on us. We feel this way as a social democratic minority but it seems Canada as a whole is happy enough with the status quo under FPTP. I like what the NDP says sometimes but they have no penetration or space to occupy that the Liberal party hasn't already. It seems like people vote for them when they feel the Liberals suck and they want more liberals but without the stink of corruption. I wonder if there's enough oxygen in the room for a real centre-left party like a Canadian Social Democratic party with real policy plans and proper grassroots support. The NDP abandoned their traditional base because some bigshots at the top probably felt that any attempt to push to the left or stay on the left with the unions etc would be very unpopular. As far as I can tell whenever any unions with real power (railways, sanitation and ports) go on strike, the government just legislates them back to work with full public support. We're so dependent on the railways and ports for our modern style of living that no consumer is willing to tolerate supply disruptions on imports. Public opinion is very much against unions because people feel the unions are the ones who are greedy and the corporations aren't. A union wanting more pay, benefits and sick days for their employees comes across as work-shy, lazy and unproductive in a world where many people had to work really hard to get through school and claw out a meagre standard of living for themselves. I don't think progressive, left leaning politics is something you can legislate from the top down. It's a chicken and egg scenario. We keep saying "If only we had a chance to pass X policy, then everyone will see!" but the reality is that everyone can see quite clearly and they don't want it. At least they don't want it in sufficient enough numbers for the parties to stake their political careers on it. The older I get the more I realize that the system is working as intended for its core constituencies. There just aren't enough poor people or working class people in Canada who have a social democratic ideology. People only see their salaries, their taxes, the appearance of a prosperous economy and that's what drives their votes. The system as it exists today necessitates a powerless underclass to provide service for the "middle class" and upper class people who are dependent on cheap labor for the service sector. Those people living in vote/seat rich 905 suburbs love their homes, their costco runs and their amazon habits. They are more than happy to live that way while exploiting the gently caress out of the poor people who are hidden behind the curtain being ground up into sausages to make that happen. There is this perfect ratio of active homeowners, pensioners, suburb dwellers and wealthy immigrants with net worths in the mid six figures or above who are propping this system up because they stand to lose more in the short-run than they would gain by perpetuating it. Even poor students buy-in to the system because in their alienation and lack of a political solution to their problems have turned to self-reliance and hustle to make ends meet. There's just a trickle of people like this who somehow manage via wealthy families and other assistance to bypass the glass ceiling on younger people and get just enough economic prosperity to afford things like lattes, uber eats deliveries, some electronics and an overpriced 1 bedroom apartment in the city. No savings unless they're lucky enough to get a matching contribution retirement plan with their company. I'm fully expecting millennials and gen z to become more conservative the moment the boomer die-off commences and the government feels it needs to replace those voters by bribing people who are in their 20s and 30s now when they're 40/50 with easy homeownership schemes. It's either that or they replace the dying boomers with more rich immigrants who are happy to perpetuate this house of cards by importing their money to pay for real-estate and luxury goods. There's lots of grist for this mill so I don't see how any of this is going to change. I have spent the last 2 years studying revolutions beginning with the French Revolution onward and almost every single revolution has failed to achieve any meaningful gains for poor people and lower classes. In a lot of cases a successful revolution was driven by old school market liberals who wanted their privileges to better reflect their finances. Every time there is a popular movement for democracy, socialism etc it has been subverted by wealthy liberals who often work in concert with authoritarian conservatives to harness that desire for change into poo poo like nationalism, patriotism, national unification and getting rid of monarchs to form republics where wealthy landowners are at the top of the pyramid. I don't see how any of that has changed now. I think the only reason we've seen that trend get disrupted was because the carnage of WW1 and WW2 indiscriminately destroyed lives and wealth regardless of social class. Entire nations saw themselves destroyed physically and financially by WW2 and the resulting power vacumn meant that upper and lower classes had to work together with American aid to rebuild on a more equal footing. Efforts had to be made to stop communism from spreading so we sweetened the deal with European style social democratic movements. Meanwhile the US enjoyed so much wealth and prosperity from having a near monopoly on consumer goods due to lack of European competition that it was easy to pay everyone whatever they wanted to be prosperous. If we want cheaper housing, it's not going to happen until climate change indiscriminately starts rendering desirable coastal cities uninhabitable and we start moving further inland to compensate. That'll be the great equalizer (in western countries, everyone else is dead). China similarly is enjoying a rising standard of living across the board, not because they are a more equal society but because all their new wealth eventually leads to incremental boosts in income and available jobs at whatever factories and industries they're sprouting out to support demand for consumer goods and raw materials. They are currently going through something America went through in the 1950s and 1960s. People are starting to afford cars, city homes, consumer goods because the exponential gains also mean exponential gains on the tiniest slices of the economic pie. They could be paid much more and things would still be fine, but their near limitless growth is the main driver of that prosperity, not their economic equality. China makes more millionaires now than we have people in Canada. So that wealth is still being concentrated in a similar ratio to how it is here. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Aug 25, 2021 |
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Aug 25, 2021 17:03
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DariusLikewise posted:I mean like maybe the NDP should show up to some protest or maybe organize a few? Run some community outreach things, show up with food to a park and feed the homeless? Have a presence anywhere rural at all? I've seen multiple dipper MPs and MLAs at stuff like that out here in BC, Singh has been to several protests and job strikes since becoming the mp in South Burnaby  I agree their outreach/media manipulation needs to be better - ppl don't pay attention unless you're upsetting them
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Aug 25, 2021 17:39
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The media is running wild with Monsef referring to the Taliban as brothers. During the media briefing today a journalist poked her on that and asked why she refers to the taliban as brothers but not conservative parry Muslims. Of course the firestorm was agitated by Warren Kinsella and Ezra Levant.
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Aug 25, 2021 18:39
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DariusLikewise posted:Hootin and Hollerin She is Rob Ford level stupid, but having said that, it's probably good for the NDP and Manitoba to have an actual leadership race so that there's potentially some Conservative dirty laundry that gets aired. It's a lot better than the Heather Stephenson reconciliation tour at least, which is obviously a complete load of BS.
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Aug 25, 2021 18:56
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