Quackles posted:

I think I touched on this a little upthread, but arguably the debate over whether Angela did anything wrong or not misses the point of what to be moral is about. Ultimately, morality is about the actions you take out in the world.

To extend that, the question then becomes not "did Angela do anything wrong," but "what can Angela do to fix the harm she caused by her action?"

TLDR: Angela still owes the world four more days of Light

Quackles posted:

I think I touched on this a little upthread, but arguably the debate over whether Angela did anything wrong or not misses the point of what to be moral is about. Ultimately, morality is about the actions you take out in the world.

To extend that, the question then becomes not "did Angela do anything wrong," but "what can Angela do to fix the harm she caused by her action?"

TLDR: Angela still owes the world four more days of Light

Doobeedoo posted:

I'd argue three days, then four days might not have the same effect as just seven days at once?

That being said, Angela doesn't owe the world anything. It's not like they did anything for her she needs to repay.
Sure, the moral course of action would be to give them what she made sure they wouldn't be given, but I wouldn't say she has any responsibility to do so other than the general "You have power, you have a responsibility to make a positive difference in the world" thing.

Quackles posted:

My conception of morality is that immoral acts are ones that deliberately/knowingly cause harm. I posit that Angela caused great harm to the world by withholding that Light; and so... well, I don't know if there's anything she can do about it now. But I would hold that it's an immoral action that should be rectified if possible.

Acerbatus posted:

Frankly I think we have more evidence that it would be bad than it would be good. Look at the abnormalities; They're what it comes from and they're not exactly friendly.

Qrr posted:

I think the question of whether Angela did anything wrong can probably wait until we get more information on what actual effect the light days and dark nights had on the city. Unless you just want to meme it or are yourself some kind of rogue AI, then go ahead.

Quackles posted:

My conception of morality is that immoral acts are ones that deliberately/knowingly cause harm. I posit that Angela caused great harm to the world by withholding that Light; and so... well, I don't know if there's anything she can do about it now. But I would hold that it's an immoral action that should be rectified if possible.

silentsnack posted:

Angela foreshadowed the consequences in the Lobco epilogue sequence, and Distortion Detective is set in the aftermath. So it isn't really a mystery or ~spoilers~ to discuss.

Yeah that's the tricky thing about discussing this kind of topic: morality is subjective but for some reason a lot of people inadvertently assume that their personal opinion reflects some great universal Truth, and everyone who doesn't agree is automatically wrong.

Narsham posted:

(though one might ask why Roland is an exception).

Kitfox88 posted:

Roland is obviously X's rolincarnation.

Actually, do we know how long it's been since the ending of LobCorp as of right now? Is it a few days? Weeks? Years?

Ratoslov posted:

Clearly Angela doesn't believe that, otherwise she wouldn't have stopped it. What could possibly be more humiliating than letting A do what he wanted and fall flat on his face, annihilating humanity?

Kitfox88 posted:

Yeah, I don’t expect an exact date but I’m curious if it’s been long enough that the pillar of light has passed into lore and memory or if it’s just something from a decade or two ago or such.

Gridlocked posted:

Book em' Roland.

Mecha_Face posted:

Angela owes nobody anything. It was not her fault she was made, it was not her fault she was put in charge of something so important, she is not responsible for any of this that happened. These were all choices forced on her, with the extra torture of having to endure time slowed 100x. She literally just said, “no, I’m not going to die for a plan I never had any part in but to suffer” and took what rightfully belonged to her by her own effort, sweat, and tears. I would, in fact, argue she harmed no one, since all she did was let things go back to how they were before the light. Which were horrible, don’t get me wrong, but that is also not her fault or her doing. I’d need some evidence besides “feels bad that it’s gone” that the absence of the light did some actual, lasting harm when she stole it, otherwise all I’m seeing here is an abused slave getting even with their slaver and then flipping off everyone who was fine with how she was treated (and often openly hostile to her).

Hell, even if it did hurt in some way, she still owes a society that caused her to be born and suffer the way she has jack poo poo. If anything, that society owes her.

Sum Gai posted:

So is there any reason to think Angela actually objects to A's methods, or just that she hates him for basically imprisoning her for a million years*?

*Which is a really good reason to hate him, no argument.

Mecha_Face posted:

I would, in fact, argue she harmed no one, since all she did was let things go back to how they were before the light. Which were horrible, don’t get me wrong, but that is also not her fault or her doing. I’d need some evidence besides “feels bad that it’s gone” that the absence of the light did some actual, lasting harm when she stole it, otherwise all I’m seeing here is an abused slave getting even with their slaver and then flipping off everyone who was fine with how she was treated (and often openly hostile to her).

Mecha_Face posted:

She literally just said, “no, I’m not going to die for a plan I never had any part in but to suffer” and took what rightfully belonged to her by her own effort, sweat, and tears.

Probe 17 posted:

TeeQueue posted:

While technically the victory screen hasn’t been shown yet, I’ll give this one an ok mostly because the first gameplay update’s proven to take a bit longer than I wanted it to. Do be more careful in the future.

Quackles posted:

Is that a can of bear-brand beer?

Probe 17 posted:

MiiNiPaa posted:

That's funny, I do not remember even a single percent of Seed of Light germination coming from Angela. She could assume control over L Corp and become a Wing owner. She does have claim on L Corp assets, Singularity and Abnormalities.

Hunt11 posted:

Without her there is no seed of light.

booksnake posted:

Without Paul/Mizu/employee #3172XX there is no seed of light, either, but you don't give them monopoly rights

Qrr posted:

I think the question of whether Angela did anything wrong can probably wait until we get more information on what actual effect the light days and dark nights had on the city. Unless you just want to meme it or are yourself some kind of rogue AI, then go ahead.

booksnake posted:

Without Paul/Mizu/employee #3172XX there is no seed of light, either, but you don't give them monopoly rights

Arcvasti posted:

Let's also not forget that Angela, of all people, should know that it's wrong to enslave someone and force them to live out an undying hell in service to your own personal ambitions. And then immediately turns around and does that to poor Roland, who just wanted a loving sandwich. Extremely dick move there, from our dear Miss Library Director.

Quackles posted:

Is that a can of bear-brand beer?

Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:

It's literally a matter of life and death for her if he tells anyone about her existence since AIs are banned. And she never said it was permanent and that she'd kill him at the end; she just wants to figure out how the hell he got in there. And so far the library doesn't look anywhere near the hellhole LobCorp was, or even the parts of the city we've seen so far. It's practically a vacation, and Roland doesn't seem like a saint either; he already said multiple times he used to make fun of people who got kidnapped or chopped up for parts for not being careful.

And on top of all that, there's no guarantee Roland is telling the truth about having just appeared out of nowhere in the library. He was muttering some weird stuff at the start.