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Karloff posted:I would say you're wrong because the Maguire films were all about how flawed and imperfect he was 
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Aug 26, 2021 11:28
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Bonesaw reads theory
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Aug 26, 2021 11:42
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you’re supposed to read it in the voice
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Aug 26, 2021 11:44
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That scene is double damned because it's the only time in all 3 films where he delivers a line in a jokey, sarcastic voice.
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Aug 26, 2021 12:15
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Rhyno posted:That scene is double damned because it's the only time in all 3 films where he delivers a line in a jokey, sarcastic voice. He has some good lines in the SM2 movie game. His voice acting in the SM1 movie game is a bit clunky.
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Aug 26, 2021 12:23
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notthegoatseguy posted:
His acting in general is pretty clunky.
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Aug 26, 2021 12:28
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Rhyno posted:That scene is double damned because it's the only time in all 3 films where he delivers a line in a jokey, sarcastic voice. He also goes "Here's your change!" when he throws a bag of coins back at Dr. Octopus in the bank fight.
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Aug 26, 2021 13:06
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I hope all the Spider-Men die, tbh. Just give me Miles already. Japanese Spider Man.
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Aug 26, 2021 14:35
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Rhymenoserous posted:Japanese Spider Man. Dude is Takuya Yamashiro, not Peter Parker.
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Aug 26, 2021 14:44
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Rhyno posted:That scene is double damned because it's the only time in all 3 films where he delivers a line in a jokey, sarcastic voice. Always felt odd how devoted Raimi was to Silver Age Spider-Man and barely had him quip.
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Aug 26, 2021 14:45
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Ror posted:you’re supposed to read it in the voice I did, instinctively. Also, I find Tom Holland's Peter Parker very likeable and so does every person I encounter in the real world ya bunch a weirdos.
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Aug 26, 2021 17:37
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Both Holland and Maguire are likeable. Holland more so just because Maguire's take plays up the social awkwardness, though that's obviously the intention. Garfield is a naturally charismatic dude and eminently likeable, so they really tried hard for him to come across as such a piece of poo poo, but even then, his innate charisma sometimes shines through.
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Aug 26, 2021 17:47
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Sgt. Politeness posted:I did, instinctively. Yeah, I can't attest for his popularity outside my limited viewpoint but I have never seen Infinity War with someone else and not heard audible gasps at the end.
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Aug 26, 2021 17:55
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Maguire's Parker to me is just a massive bummer of a character. It's hard to like watching a sadsack like that for me. The Parker Luck is one thing, but Peter in the comic just kinda rolls with all the bad poo poo that happens to him. Garfield's is often too awkward and standoffish as Peter but in the suit he's fine so it was a weird deliberate play on the character that worked sometimes and didn't work at others. Holland's is like super hyper all the time. He's very modern teenager. I can see that turning people off but it works for me much more than the other two. It represents the joy of Spider-Man really well and that's a core thing I love about the character. Yes, it's a burden at times but unlike the other two it's not overwhelmingly so and you can see that the joy is still there.
X-O fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Aug 26, 2021 |
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Aug 26, 2021 18:04
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Garfield's take worked much more in TASM 1 than 2. At least 1 was about his hubris, in 2 he just came across as a sociopath constantly explicitly disregarding the wishes of the people he's close to.
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Aug 26, 2021 18:07
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In Spider-man 3 when he meets Sandman he says "where do these guys keep coming from?" I was like... woah, a quip, sorta.
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Aug 26, 2021 18:08
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Arist posted:Garfield's take worked much more in TASM 1 than 2. At least 1 was about his hubris, in 2 he just came across as a sociopath constantly explicitly disregarding the wishes of the people he's close to. “Have you been following me?” And Gwen is HAPPY as she says this horrifying thing
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Aug 26, 2021 18:09
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I get what they were doing with Garfield's Peter. They were trying to harken back to the 'awkward teenager' version of Peter in the early issues before getting to Empire State where he got a bit more socially active. They wanted to put more of a modern twist on that and make him socially awkward in the sense we think of today. Not just the straight '60s nerd with glasses stereotype. The problem is they went too far with awkward and made him pretty creepy at times and just completely aloof at others. Like, I don't think any of the three are unrealistic takes. I've known sad losers like Maguire Parker, weirdo dudes you don't quite want to actually be around but are kinda interesting like Garfield Parker, and over-excitable rambling super nerds like Holland Parker. All of them are valid takes on the character. I just happen to like the latter the best. X-O fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Aug 26, 2021 |
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Aug 26, 2021 18:14
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X-O posted:Maguire's Parker to me is just a massive bummer of a character. It's hard to like watching a sadsack like that for me. The Parker Luck is one thing, but Peter in the comic just kinda rolls with all the bad poo poo that happens to him. A slight correction I'd offer, is that he eventually rolls with it. Plenty of gloomy brooding Peter in the stuff that Raimi apparently drew from but he would bounce back, either because he checked himself or someone set him right. Maybe the weirdest thing about the Raimi movies is the brief glimpses we get of the jovial Peter. Like it would make more sense almost if we never saw it and then it'd be like "ok, this is the take on the character they're going for." But the Spider-Man quips you can count on your hand across three movies, the "beat an old lady with a stick" joke from the Thanksgiving scene, everyone involved obviously knew what they could do with Tobey and the character but... didn't? Lobok fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Aug 26, 2021 |
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Aug 26, 2021 18:26
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Lobok posted:A slight correction I'd offer, is that he eventually rolls with it. Plenty of gloomy brooding Peter in the stuff that Raimi apparently drew from but he would bounce back, either because he checked himself or someone set him right. Oh for sure. I didn't mean that he was just unfazed by all the bad poo poo that happens to him. I just meant that in the comics you can see the other side of it. You can see the good parts and fun parts of his life that have him push through. In the Raimi films his life just feels like a neverending pile of poo poo most of the time and you can see it effect almost everything about his life.
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Aug 26, 2021 18:35
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The bounceback was really the only reason all the poo poo heaped on him worked. For a character alone so much and in his own head we needed him to have his own emotional resolve or else it'd just be depressing. The stuff that happened to him was the relatable part but really, being able to just go "this sucks, gently caress my life, it's all bullshit... whoa Pete, Bob Hope in front of the troops I am *not* right now. Either perk up or pack it in" was one of the ways in which he was far better and stronger than the average person.
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Aug 26, 2021 18:52
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Dawgstar posted:Always felt odd how devoted Raimi was to Silver Age Spider-Man and barely had him quip. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Raimi's movies felt like an adaption of the 60s cartoons more than anything. McGuire also never feel like a teenager, more like a creepy adult pretending to be what they think a nerdy teen is. Kids don't get picked on for being smart anymore, they get picked on for physical or class reasons. Why Flash being some rear end in a top hat rich kid (who clearly has a terrible homelife so he takes it out on Penis Parker) feels much more natural than picking on someone because they were glasses and like science. I don't know if this is just Canada, but you can't just coast by in school being good at sports anymore, based on what the teenage girls i used to manage talked about and what they told me, some guy who's entire personality is "throws ball good" wasn't going to cut it. Also I always wondered why my lukewarm feelings towards Raimi spider-man was due to them coming out when I'm in my early 20s and most other people saw them as kids or as teens. I grew up reading spider-man in the 80s as a kid, which is probably why Venom without Spider-Man doesn't have a lot of interest to me. Also 80s Spider-Man is the first Spider-Man you know hosed. It's probably the same thing about the X-men movies from the early 2000s, i was a adult, and had read X-men in the 80s and 90s and what I was getting was recognizably X-men but not really what I wanted. Except for the end of 2 and like Awesome! Phoenix! Space Birb Jerks adventure...oh wait no its not. I liked Garfield's Parker at the start, when he's just kind of a "its all bullshit anyways, so why should i care?" kind of teen. Then he gets weird and creepy and its just uncomfortable. Holland totally feels right to me, he's a nerd not because he's smart, but because he is always running his mouth and never shuts up and most of it is pointless esoteric knowlage. I can identify with that a lot.
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Aug 26, 2021 19:05
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@twistedmentat: I also like Holland for those same reasons, but it seems there is a generation that grew thinking Peter Parker was always a hunky adult or a married adult (90's cartoon/comics). I even had a discussion with a friend who hates Holland for being "too young, skinny and having a whimpy voice". That's the perfect teenager Spiderman and I was not gonna sit there and not go full Marvel nerd on him 
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Aug 26, 2021 19:18
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Yeah I think Holland has a good voice, if someone thinks that's a wimpy Spider-Man voice they've clearly missed Web of Shadows https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNDfkebTGMA&t=244s
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Aug 26, 2021 19:26
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Holland’s humor runs more naturally I feel like. Like it just flows out of him. Other versions you get “it’s quip time”, but with him, it just comes out. A good example of it is “It never was” to Quill’s asking about if Footloose was still the greatest movie of all time. He just has really natural comedic timing. I don’t think any other version hits that besides Keaton’s in Spectaculat Spider-man.
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Aug 26, 2021 20:04
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tom spidey looking at quill like he's nuts when quill says Thor isn't that good looking is the pinnacle of live action spidey comedy
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Aug 26, 2021 20:13
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I almost feel like Spider-Man movies should be a bit more stylized, the way Batman movies were for a long time with the Tim Burton and the post-Tim Burton aesthetic. I'm not sure exactly what kind of stylization they call for... maybe a Venture Bros-style post-50s-futuristic aesthetic? Spider-Man is one of those characters who exists in a weird tension between a bunch of established elements, where he's a put-upon dude with the Parker Luck but is also a super-strong genius with an incredible body played by a Hollywood-handsome actor and is friends with Tony Stark and Captain America. Lately I've also been thinking that they should just start giving heroes official timelines with "eras" to sort this kind of thing out, so that a Batman story can just be officially placed in the "pre-Robin era" or the "Damien era" rather than trying to keep up with a constantly-evolving present, and that would probably work for Spider-Man, also, as you could just drop a story in the early, struggling era, and not have to worry about why Peter doesn't ask one of his many super-friends for assistance.
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Aug 26, 2021 20:26
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site posted:tom spidey looking at quill like he's nuts when quill says Thor isn't that good looking is the pinnacle of live action spidey comedy The footloose back and forth was great.
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Aug 26, 2021 20:31
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I think the challenge with that is New York. Batman has leant towards that stylized look because Gotham is a fictional place so his world needs to be invented from the ground up - and naturally the city becomes a reflection of him in an almost expressionistic sense. Spider-Man movies are always kind of obligated to inject Spider-Man into a place we know to be real. But it is an interesting idea.
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Aug 26, 2021 20:31
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Rand Brittain posted:Spider-Man is one of those characters who exists in a weird tension between a bunch of established elements, where he's a put-upon dude with the Parker Luck but is also a super-strong genius with an incredible body played by a Hollywood-handsome actor and is friends with Tony Stark and Captain America. Parker Luck has really been twisted to be Murphy's Law or some edict where his life has to be poo poo all the time. It was supposed to be about *real* poo poo happening to him, not *only* poo poo. Being so cozy with a superhero billionaire tech magician does complicate that a bit, but it doesn't have to be fully incompatible with it. The way his secret identity being revealed seems to be handled in the new movie is actually a pretty good contrast with Iron Man just going "yeah gently caress it I'm Iron Man." Nodosaur posted:Holland’s humor runs more naturally I feel like. Like it just flows out of him. Other versions you get “it’s quip time”, but with him, it just comes out. A good example of it is “It never was” to Quill’s asking about if Footloose was still the greatest movie of all time. Something that irks me about Holland's Spider-Man, through no fault of his own, is that the humour tends to be more about things happening *to* him, or laughing *at* him, rather than him intentionally being funny or making actual jokes. Not always but I think that's most of it. I imagine Spider-Man like that ATM burgarly scene in Homecoming against the "Avengers" or the deleted restaurant scene from Far From Home and I wish we got more of that.
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Aug 26, 2021 22:04
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Lobok posted:Something that irks me about Holland's Spider-Man, through no fault of his own, is that the humour tends to be more about things happening *to* him, or laughing *at* him, rather than him intentionally being funny or making actual jokes. Not always but I think that's most of it. I imagine Spider-Man like that ATM burgarly scene in Homecoming against the "Avengers" or the deleted restaurant scene from Far From Home and I wish we got more of that. That's true. Peter does need more zingers.
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Aug 26, 2021 22:17
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Garfield I think could have been a great Peter Parker with a less terrible script that didn't care more about his dad then him. Unfortunately what he had to work with basically required him to be a real shithead in ways that were clearly not intended and the only thing really salvaging the performance is that Peter and Gwen had (for obvious reasons) off the loving charts charisma together, enough to make you overlook just how absurdly toxic their relationship was written because they're cute dorks. Tobey I think does a good job of capturing the "sad depressed Spider-Man who none the less goes all out on heroism" but is sort of the opposite problem in that his romance never really got the writing it needed so it lead to Peter and MJ's interactions feeling increasingly crappy and awkward in tremendously unenjoyable ways. Which I suspect Raimi was going for to some degree but still. Holland has the worst plots to deal with of the three because they're All About The Stark but he does an excellent job playing the character within those roles and his interactions with his supporting cast (including his cameos in CW/Endgame) are usually top notch. He's the best I think at playing Peter and playing Spider-Man in the same character, he just has to deal with being part of the MCU Behemoth.
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Aug 27, 2021 00:37
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Desperado Bones posted:@twistedmentat: I also like Holland for those same reasons, but it seems there is a generation that grew thinking Peter Parker was always a hunky adult or a married adult (90's cartoon/comics). Yea, I know lots of people who prefer Spidy to be older and more mature, more like Chris Pine Spider-Man from Spider-Verse. I like university student parker. Gives him a bit more freedom and maturity, but he can still be a goof and inexperienced. Also it explains why he can get his hand on fancier science equipment.
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Aug 27, 2021 00:55
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Sony's Playstation 4 and 5's Marvel's Spider-Man's Spider-Man was pretty good but often bordered on being too much of a huge boyscout dweeblord. There has to be a midpoint between Into the Spider-verse's Pure New York Scumbag With a Heart of Gold Parker and big nerd goody two shoes video game Parker.
Calaveron fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Aug 27, 2021 |
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Aug 27, 2021 00:59
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Karloff posted:Yeah I think Holland has a good voice, if someone thinks that's a wimpy Spider-Man voice they've clearly missed Web of Shadows https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNDfkebTGMA&t=244s How dare you make me remember that voice.  (Great game though, other than the Wolverine boss fight.)
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Aug 27, 2021 01:26
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Love this thread and the always informative conversation, but I have to ask ... what does Jacket Avengers refer to? My mind immediately goes to iconic omnibus cover but I really have no clue. Sorry to disrupt the Parker conversation. Holland needs more quips. I think Garfield is a better performer hands down than Maguire, but feel he just got shafted on the movies he was given. Honestly excited to see what he gets to do in this next movie more than Maguire. I do not want Strange to be Mephisto and if that's really the twist I will take is as a personal attack from Feige.
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Aug 27, 2021 03:19
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Jacket Avengers was in the 90s when everyone wore a jacket because it was cool. 
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Aug 27, 2021 03:29
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hatelull posted:Love this thread and the always informative conversation, but I have to ask ... what does Jacket Avengers refer to? My mind immediately goes to iconic omnibus cover but I really have no clue. It's this, mostly:  Edit: man, I don't think I've ever been able to post an "edit; fb" before. Hell yeahE Edit 2: For the record, Black Knight in a jacket loving works Cartridgeblowers fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Aug 27, 2021 |
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Aug 27, 2021 03:30
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Is that Judge Dredd with a lightsaber?
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Aug 27, 2021 03:50
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That's Black Knight. His character is being introduced in Eternals. And yeah, he's the only one that really looks alright in the jacket during that era. The dark haired woman is Sersi, also being introduced in Eternals.
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Aug 27, 2021 03:54
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