|
SUNKOS posted:Shinji also sees his father burn his hands and struggle trying to get Rei out of the plug in that one episode (I forget which now, it's been so long since I watched) and has the reaction that his father must care deeply for her since he seems visibly panicked and distraught at the time, which causes Shinji to seek a similar worth in the eyes of his father. In the context of the rest of the series that particular scene seems very odd, but at the time it's understandable to think how a child like Shinji would see that and seek the same care and affection from his father by replicating Rei's actions. We know that Gendo is manipulative but there's no way for Shinji to really know at that point, iirc. He doesn't see it, but is told about it (chronologically it happens before the first episode, it's why rei is injured). To me it seems like shinji very clearly knows his dad is not good, even to rei, but he still wants any kind of affection or even attention from gendo all the same. Shinji asks rei about being scared to go back into the Eva, he knows she's doing the same lovely thing he's being forced into doing by his father, not that she's being doted on or whatever.
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 20:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 16:43 |
|
|
I don't know I'm just thinking of the scene where they are doing tests and Shinji opens his eyes and sees Rei and Gendo talking and she is smiling at him and Gendo smiles back and Shinji is just loving bewildered that anyone would show a smile or affection to his dad or he would show any emotion at all. Or why he would deserve it. A lot of emotions are mixed up there in wondering who Rei is and who his dad is and trying to get closer to both of them if he can.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 20:35
|
|
|
Shinji is initially immensely jealous of his dad and Rei's relationship. It doesn't matter if his dad ultimately puts her (or him) in a dangerous situation as long as he acknowledges her (him). There is that whole scene where he watches them speak and smile to each other, which is both very unlike them. And Gendo does care about Rei, but he has *priorities* and if Rei were to suffer or dies in the process then tough luck, there are copies. Weird BIAS posted:I don't know I'm just thinking of the scene where they are doing tests and Shinji opens his eyes and sees Rei and Gendo talking and she is smiling at him and Gendo smiles back and Shinji is just loving bewildered that anyone would show a smile or affection to his dad or he would show any emotion at all. Or why he would deserve it. A lot of emotions are mixed up there in wondering who Rei is and who his dad is and trying to get closer to both of them if he can. I don't think he's bewildered at all. Shinji knows that his father is an rear end in a top hat towards him, but he thinks that there is something that he has done for his father to treat him like that, which is why he's trying to please him. Him and Rei having an animated conversation that they are both enjoying just proves that his dad can be a normal guy who likes someone else. Someone that has worth. trucutru fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Aug 26, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 20:39
|
|
|
trucutru posted:And Gendo does care about Rei, but he has *priorities* and if Rei were to suffer or dies in the process then tough luck, there are copies. I mean that's precisely what I was getting at earlier - Rei's useful to him on both emotional and practical (to the extent that Gendo's mad science is "practical") levels, but he doesn't like her any more than he likes any other human being not named Yui.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 20:42
|
|
|
Weird BIAS posted:I don't know I'm just thinking of the scene where they are doing tests and Shinji opens his eyes and sees Rei and Gendo talking and she is smiling at him and Gendo smiles back and Shinji is just loving bewildered that anyone would show a smile or affection to his dad or he would show any emotion at all. Or why he would deserve it. A lot of emotions are mixed up there in wondering who Rei is and who his dad is and trying to get closer to both of them if he can. Yeah 
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 20:44
|
|
|
presented without comment because i'm still processing this myself lol https://twitter.com/brobatty/status/1427093030134329353 full album of shot comparisons: https://imgur.com/Rr3TTn0
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 20:46
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:I mean that's precisely what I was getting at earlier - Rei's useful to him on both emotional and practical (to the extent that Gendo's mad science is "practical") levels, but he doesn't like her any more than he likes any other human being not named Yui. He wouldn't have burned his hands trying to save, say, Shinji so there are obviously people that he likes more (and you can like and appreciate someone that you ultimately see as a tool). His affection to Rei is obviously higher than for some others, and seemingly real. But it is nothing in comparison to his obsession with Yui.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 20:49
|
|
|
rei's utility as a proficient, obedient pilot>shinji's higher synchro rate and lovely attitude, of course he'd save her (though that very specific instance was possibly also a triggered reaction considering yui vanished under identical circumstances). like i said, its got nothing to do with rei's personality or even personhood, its pure math for gendo, so of course he'd flash her some fake smiles and try to keep her calm and amenable when possible.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 21:01
|
|
|
Isn't there the graveyard scene as well where Shinji catches her by the window of the aircraft Gendo returns to? I vaguely recall Gendo sitting down and having dinner with Rei as well, just the two of them. I could be misremembering all of this but that's my vague recollection from earlier in the series, before we see the squalid conditions that she lives in and how she treasures Gendo's glasses. I vaguely recall my initial impressions being that it implied something very disturbing until the revelation that she's left in squalor when not needed and Shinji has a rightfully confused reaction to this.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 21:13
|
|
|
Paper Lion posted:rei's utility as a proficient, obedient pilot>shinji's higher synchro rate and lovely attitude, of course he'd save her (though that very specific instance was possibly also a triggered reaction considering yui vanished under identical circumstances). like i said, its got nothing to do with rei's personality or even personhood, its pure math for gendo, so of course he'd flash her some fake smiles and try to keep her calm and amenable when possible. You seem to be arguing around the point I'm making that what Shinji sees is not neccesarily what is reality and his own failure to pick up on things is well established at this point. Like nobody is saying Gendo is actually a caring person, not sure why this needs to be brought up every time instead of engaging with Shinji being a dumb kid trying to make excuses for an abusive father when he's not nice to him but appears (appears! Operative word!) to be kind to someone else in a moment. SUNKOS posted:Isn't there the graveyard scene as well where Shinji catches her by the window of the aircraft Gendo returns to? I vaguely recall Gendo sitting down and having dinner with Rei as well, just the two of them. I could be misremembering all of this but that's my vague recollection from earlier in the series, before we see the squalid conditions that she lives in and how she treasures Gendo's glasses. I vaguely recall my initial impressions being that it implied something very disturbing until the revelation that she's left in squalor when not needed and Shinji has a rightfully confused reaction to this. This is just a bit before the Touji/Bardiel stuff when they visit Yui's grave together, Shinji sees Rei in the aircraft. I think in Rebuild however that's when Gendo and Rei definitely have a conversation in the craft.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 21:16
|
|
|
SUNKOS posted:Isn't there the graveyard scene as well where Shinji catches her by the window of the aircraft Gendo returns to? I vaguely recall Gendo sitting down and having dinner with Rei as well, just the two of them. I could be misremembering all of this but that's my vague recollection from earlier in the series, before we see the squalid conditions that she lives in and how she treasures Gendo's glasses. I vaguely recall my initial impressions being that it implied something very disturbing until the revelation that she's left in squalor when not needed and Shinji has a rightfully confused reaction to this. Shinji visiting the grave comes quite a bit later than when he sees her apartment. The main/only? positive thing that shinji sees early is them talking during the eva test. (ed: and gets told about gendo burning his hands getting her out of the thing) sourdough fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Aug 26, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 21:20
|
|
|
See part of what has me going on about how Gendo doesn't actively give a poo poo about Rei is the distinction between poo poo like the dinner or him taking her with him to visit Yui's grave and then also having her live alone in the shittiest apartment in Tokyo-3. He uses her appearance to attain some measure of emotional closeness to Yui (in his own mind, anyway) through performative kindness and familial rituals with her, but it's all solely for his own benefit, and he knows it. The instant he's done crying on her boobs or whatever he needs to do to manage his fee fees that day he doesn't give a poo poo if she gets hit by a car or stepped on by an Angel or whatever the gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 21:26
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:See part of what has me going on about how Gendo doesn't actively give a poo poo about Rei is the distinction between poo poo like the dinner or him taking her with him to visit Yui's grave and then also having her live alone in the shittiest apartment in Tokyo-3. He uses her appearance to attain some measure of emotional closeness to Yui (in his own mind, anyway) through performative kindness and familial rituals with her, but it's all solely for his own benefit, and he knows it. The instant he's done crying on her boobs or whatever he needs to do to manage his fee fees that day he doesn't give a poo poo if she gets hit by a car or stepped on by an Angel or whatever the gently caress. I think that it's even messier than that. Gendo is capable of loving people, as much as he tries to convince himself that feeling is Yui exclusive, and when he lets his guard down, that includes affection for Rei. Gendo realizes the "risk" that feelings for Shinji will get in the way of going forward with the Scenario, so he closes himself off all the time, but he can 'excuse' the times he treats Rei well as part of the plan, so he genuinely opens up a bit... but then when he catches himself, he shuts down again. Things like the lovely apartment and sending Rei to her possible death come from (on a more conscious level) "proving he's not getting too attached", and slightly less consciously, punishing Rei for not being Yui, for trying to steal any part of his affection.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 21:41
|
|
|
Rei used to live in the basement of Terminal Dogma right? She used to actually be a lot closer to Gendo in that sense. Not sure if Gendo decided to put her way out in those lovely apartments or if Rei chose it for herself. Maybe Ritsuko suggested it would help her synch ratio to have more of a routine outside of NERV and to also get Rei away from Gendo and more to herself? Not sure on that this is mostly speculation.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 22:07
|
|
|
I don't mean this as a slight to anyone, but it's interesting how part of what makes Evachats so long is that different people end up with radically different takes on core character motivations like "does Gendo feel anything about Rei" or "does Shinji realize how much of a piece of poo poo his father is." Like just diverging views at such a basic level that seems to me like they'd lead to different takeaways from the same story.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 22:51
|
|
|
I am rewatching 2.22 with a friend and I noticed that the facility Mari and Kaji are at in the opening has the L-Field towers. it must be where they were researching it
Tythas fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Aug 26, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2021 23:41
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/videogamedeals/status/1431019426602786816
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2021 02:12
|
|
|
Cephas posted:I don't mean this as a slight to anyone, but it's interesting how part of what makes Evachats so long is that different people end up with radically different takes on core character motivations like "does Gendo feel anything about Rei" or "does Shinji realize how much of a piece of poo poo his father is." Like just diverging views at such a basic level that seems to me like they'd lead to different takeaways from the same story. It's mostly a result of how intently Shinji-focused much of the series is. (And is, imho, it's greatest weakness.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2021 02:30
|
|
|
Cephas posted:I don't mean this as a slight to anyone, but it's interesting how part of what makes Evachats so long is that different people end up with radically different takes on core character motivations This is one of the primary reasons for the enduring, fanatical reverence of Evangelion. Having said that, are some objectively and laughably wrong takes on it. (Not necessarily referring to anything specific in this conversation though!)
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2021 04:05
|
|
|
Fly Ricky posted:This is one of the primary reasons for the enduring, fanatical reverence of Evangelion. Man, I remember watching the show as it came out back in '95 (drat, I feel old). The goddamn Christian imagery takes back then were wild. Shinji was the most maligned main character ever and then *blam* 25 and 26 drop and everybody is like WTFFFFFFFFFF!? Good times. With 25 years of hindsight there are some things that we know about the characters but as the series came out you didn't actually know, for example, the sort of person Gendo is. The scenes where he's nice to Rei are not there only for Shinji but also for us. I remember some people thinking that Rei was Gendo's daughter and/or lover.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2021 05:18
|
|
|
I always read the Gendo/Rei relationship as abusive. There's the scene where Shinji enters Rei's apartment, puts on Gendo's glasses (taking on the "role" of Gendo for the scene), Rei emerges naked from the shower, and he falls on top of her in a sexual suggestive position; Rei doesn't react, as if it was a normal thing that happens to her. It's difficult to read this scene and not walk away thinking that Gendo is abusing her. Then there are multiple scenes of Gendo leering over her naked body. And in EoE there's a callback to the apartment scene when Gendo grabs her breast, which would seem to validate the abuser reading. Whether or not Shinji, or other characters, understand it as abusive is more ambiguous - Shinji is admonished by Rei and later by Yui (while inside Unit 1) for not trying to understand his father. (Although Shinji does reach out several times over the course of the show, like when he calls Gendo only to have him hang up and close the line.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2021 08:58
|
|
|
"you aren't trying to understand him" is some real bullshit. it was never shinji's responsibility to be the one to reach out. gendo was the adult with all the power. however, gendo was such an unbelievable shithead that it took some, uh, pretty extreme circumstances before shinji was able to force him to communicate.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2021 09:02
|
|
|
trucutru posted:Man, I remember watching the show as it came out back in '95 (drat, I feel old). The goddamn Christian imagery takes back then were wild. Shinji was the most maligned main character ever and then *blam* 25 and 26 drop and everybody is like WTFFFFFFFFFF!?  Took an 2 1/2 hour round-trip to the only video store in my state that had copies of it. Which necessitated watching only two/four episodes at a time on weekends (supposing it wasn't rented at the time, in which case tough poo poo). AFAIK at the time there was nothing of any substance on the English internet about it; I think I read about it in Newtype. If there wasn't a friend alongside watching it with me I'd be writing this from inside an institution. edit: oh yeah, when I say "rented" I'm talking about good old fashioned VHS tapes
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2021 09:41
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/shiburingaru321/status/1431173187031605251 I knew the Rebuilds were missing something Where were the alternate universe glimpses during Shinji and Gendo's brawl, eh? Show us the other timelines that happened, dammit!
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 04:48
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 05:14
|
|
|
Vinylshadow posted:https://twitter.com/shiburingaru321/status/1431173187031605251 A shame they couldn't sneak a couple frames of Super Robot Wars in there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 05:27
|
|
|
Hunter Noventa posted:A shame they couldn't sneak a couple frames of Super Robot Wars in there. just two frames of Berserk Eva 1 screaming at Mazinger Zero would've been perfect
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 05:53
|
|
|
Spiritus Nox posted:just two frames of Berserk Eva 1 screaming at Mazinger Zero would've been perfect 
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 06:26
|
|
|
Hey, she was right. Admittedly, it took more than a decade and a girl literally falling out of the sky on top of him for Shinji to take some initiative, but in the end, he finally managed to successfully flirt. Good for him!
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 06:51
|
|
|
Crisis posted:I always read the Gendo/Rei relationship as abusive. There's the scene where Shinji enters Rei's apartment, puts on Gendo's glasses (taking on the "role" of Gendo for the scene), Rei emerges naked from the shower, and he falls on top of her in a sexual suggestive position; Rei doesn't react, as if it was a normal thing that happens to her. It's difficult to read this scene and not walk away thinking that Gendo is abusing her. Then there are multiple scenes of Gendo leering over her naked body. And in EoE there's a callback to the apartment scene when Gendo grabs her breast, which would seem to validate the abuser reading. While I agree with you that Gendo was probably treating Rei as the 90's equivilant of a Realdoll in the original series and EoE, in Rebuild I think it's more of a "She knows she has to wear clothes, but she doesn't understand why" situation. I don't know if it's supposed to be a reference to how she isn't "human" (Adam and Eve only felt they had to cover themselves after eating the fruit of knowledge) or just a side effect of her only being a few years? old by the time Rebuild takes place, and raised in a completely different environment and not knowing what social taboos are.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 13:53
|
|
|
I think the Rebuild movies imply that Rei is fully capable of growing into a regular, happy human being if she's in a healthy environment. Actually, one of the things that stood out to me is that in the Rebuilds, she seems to be really good-natured and thoughtful, but almost never gets an opportunity to for others to appreciate it (exception in 3.0 when she's living in a tent by the edge of the apocalypse all by herself, and doesn't really have a chance to gain basic humanity)
Cephas fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Aug 28, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 14:41
|
|
|
Rebuilds should have ended with one of the endings of the Ayanami Raising Project, like at the end Shinji suddenly hears engine roars and bosozoku Rei drives past him.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 15:02
|
|
|
You can't blame Shinji for his relationship with his dad, but Gendo demonstrates how importance it is for Shinji to grow out of his fear of connecting with other people.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 15:06
|
|
|
Cephas posted:I think the Rebuild movies imply that Rei is fully capable of growing into a regular, happy human being if she's in a healthy environment. Actually, one of the things that stood out to me is that in the Rebuilds, she seems to be really good-natured and thoughtful, but almost never gets an opportunity to for others to appreciate it (exception in 3.0 when she's living in a tent by the edge of the apocalypse all by herself, and doesn't really have a chance to gain basic humanity) Yeah I've always assumed that Rei's...Rei-ness is like >95% just a factor of the horrid upbringing Gendo and NERV give her.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 18:51
|
|
|
What's the name of the 3.0-1.0 song playing when Yui stops Shinji from killing himself Like "even having to leave wounded friends"
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 18:57
|
|
|
Yumi Matsutoya - Voyager from the movie Bye Bye Jupiter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnBKcdF6qrw&t=142s
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 19:11
|
|
|
all this talk about "does gendo like rei" and it's like of course gendo likes, and loves rei he had a hand in bringing her into the world! unless you're a true sociopath you can't do something like that and not feel the need to protect and care for them, you know? more seriously, I don't think gendo minds too much if rei dies outright - after all he's got more in the pantry! - but since she's a clone of yui, the only regular human not named gendo he spent multiple lifetimes giving a poo poo about, he doesn't want to see her hurt. it doesn't bother him that the dummy plugs are lobotomized clones of yui, and it wouldn't bother him if unit 0 was eaten right up by an angel, but to watch yuis boiled body being dragged out of a plug would cause a fair amount of distress. also he definitely abused rei because gendo is the WORST.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 20:44
|
|
|
although im sure the gendo and rei relationship was abusive in all kinds of ways i dont think there any reason to believe he was noncing her. grabbing her breast in EoE was just a particularly creepy form of fan service imo just like every other naked or plugsuited child scene
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 20:55
|
|
|
Archer666 posted:bosozoku Rei angel attacks and i piss off literally everybody down in HQ by burning the first two minutes of battery power modulating unit 0's engines to play a perfectly-in-tune Camptown Races
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 21:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 12, 2024 16:43 |
|
|
Just finished 3.0+1.0, as a dad and someone who lost my dad a few months ago, I think it's my favorite of the 5 Eva movies, just for that scene. I look at the Mari ending as being a case of "sometimes what you really needed was someone new, and someone you didn't expect." . They make a big deal about how Shinji wants Asuka, as an analogy for himself, or Rei, as an analogy for Yui. Mari is clearly neither of those, and is so different she wasn't even in the original series. She is an anthropomorphic representation of Shinji leaving his trauma behind. SchrodingersCat fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Aug 28, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 22:04
|
|