(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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fart simpson posted:that infrared guy is hilarious He rocks https://twitter.com/InfraredClips/status/1408716885601009666
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Aug 26, 2021 16:01
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Are volumes 2 and 3 of Capital worth reading?
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Aug 26, 2021 18:59
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Red and Black posted:Are volumes 2 and 3 of Capital worth reading? yes!! so many people prattle on and on about how marx never addressed x or y issue and the chances are extremely good that he loving did in 2 and 3. the chapters on imaginary capital especially
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Aug 26, 2021 19:28
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Judge Dredd Scott posted:yes!! so many people prattle on and on about how marx never addressed x or y issue and the chances are extremely good that he loving did in 2 and 3. I guess I’ll have to read them then
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Aug 26, 2021 19:45
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any good books that are like, capital updated for the 21st century (pls no piketty) that summarize and build on marx's stuff but with modern references and a century's worth of learning/experiences to draw on someone recommended kliman's "reclaiming marx's capital", any others?
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Aug 26, 2021 20:47
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mila kunis posted:any good books that are like, capital updated for the 21st century (pls no piketty) that summarize and build on marx's stuff but with modern references and a century's worth of learning/experiences to draw on Anything by Paul Cockshott basically. He has a really active YouTube channel where he often reiterates stuff from his books and he always responds to questions/comments.
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Aug 26, 2021 21:12
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Does anyone have a decent source on the % of the population of the USSR who agreed/disagreed with dissolution?
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Aug 26, 2021 23:09
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Deified Data posted:Does anyone have a decent source on the % of the population of the USSR who agreed/disagreed with dissolution? There was overwhelming popular support to keep the Union together in some form. 1991 Soviet Union referendum quote:Do you consider necessary the preservation of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics in which the rights and freedom of an individual of any ethnicity will be fully guaranteed?
The vote was boycotted in Armenia, Georgia Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Moldova. The vote in the other Soviet Republics was 80% in favor with 80% turn out. The August coup d'etat attempt, a day before the formal signing, doomed the new Union however.
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Aug 26, 2021 23:42
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mila kunis posted:any good books that are like, capital updated for the 21st century (pls no piketty) that summarize and build on marx's stuff but with modern references and a century's worth of learning/experiences to draw on the book kliman published after that one is "The Failure of Capitalist Production," which can be seen as the empirical followup/companion to Reclaiming. (overall kliman is good on value theory but has a clown's politics, so you can skip most of his post-2011 corpus) but neither of those books are, properly speaking, a critique of political economy in the style of Capital. i don't think much anyone has really made "it" anew per se, some one- (or even multi-)volume work that's going to cover "everything." i guess carchedi's Frontiers of Political Economy might be in the ballpark of what you're thinking, if you're basically looking for a more recent (1991, in this case) econ textbook with a marxist bent. more recently he and michael roberts edited this volume, which will probably also have some essays of interest. ultimately, whole literatures have sprung up in the last 150 years that touch every corner of the humanities and social sciences, and not an inconsiderable part of the natural sciences as well. summarizing that much is hard. i recommend just reading everything, though if you have a particular area of interest maybe someone here knows something in the neighborhood also if you're looking for content from an active marxist economist, i'd recommend michael roberts before cockshott; he's got that same "he'll answer if you ask him stuff" thing going, but also he's better in a bunch of important ways, including "understands the TSSI," "understands unequal exchange," "doesn't post transphobic screeds"
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Aug 27, 2021 03:33
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thank you!
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Aug 27, 2021 05:17
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:lots of leftist debates could be avoided if everyone would just stop being babies, get over themselves, and read Stalin Aight, where would you suggest someone start? I'm fairly skeptical of Stalin but I'm also fairly skeptical on the lib and anarchist narrative about him, so I'm open to reading both his works and works on Stalinist Russia
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Aug 27, 2021 06:18
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mcclay posted:Aight, where would you suggest someone start? I'm fairly skeptical of Stalin but I'm also fairly skeptical on the lib and anarchist narrative about him, so I'm open to reading both his works and works on Stalinist Russia Losurdo's Stalin: History and Critique of a Black Legend is your first stop to purge yourself of propaganda Then Grover Furr's Blood Lies: The Evidence that Every Accusation Against Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union in Timothy Snyder's Bloodlands Is False Then you move on to Foundations of Leninism, then Historical and Dialectical Materialism, then Economic Problems of Socialism in the USSR
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Aug 27, 2021 06:53
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gradenko_2000 posted:Losurdo's Stalin: History and Critique of a Black Legend is your first stop to purge yourself of propaganda Thank you!
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Aug 27, 2021 07:11
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Aug 27, 2021 07:14
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gradenko_2000 posted:then Historical and Dialectical Materialism I would also add The History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union: Short Course altogether
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Aug 27, 2021 07:19
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Do we not like Ludo Martens' Another View of Stalin?
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Aug 27, 2021 07:24
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i do
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Aug 27, 2021 07:26
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His channel is good. It's not just funny shouty stuff all the time either, he often rebuts anti-communists with detailed ML theory and history. https://www.youtube.com/c/InfraredShow/featured strange feelings re Daisy has issued a correction as of 07:56 on Aug 27, 2021 |
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Aug 27, 2021 07:54
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mcclay posted:Aight, where would you suggest someone start? I'm fairly skeptical of Stalin but I'm also fairly skeptical on the lib and anarchist narrative about him, so I'm open to reading both his works and works on Stalinist Russia honestly? read his own stuff, it's good. Stalin at his peak in that sense (in the 10s and 20s) is a very interesting read because he is definitely not a theoretician-type like Mao or Lenin, his writing is very concise and straightforward, very Hemingwayan. Yet, he has a certain knack - a sort of autodidact bookishness is the best way to describe that for me - that permeates his thinking but it isn't evident at first at all. Like, for example, if he bothers to write like this... Report on the immediate tasks of the party in the National Question posted:Before proceeding to deal with the Party's concrete immediate tasks in the national question, it is necessary to lay down certain premises, without which the national question cannot be solved. These premises concern the emergence of nations, the origin of national oppression, the forms assumed by national oppression in the course of historical development, and then the methods of solving the national question in the different periods of development. ...It's because he is about to drop the hammer on a fool quote:The point is that a number of nationalities, chiefly Tyurk—comprising about 25,000,000 people—have not been through, did not manage to go through, the period of industrial capitalism, and, therefore, have no industrial proletariat, or scarcely any; consequently, they will have to skip the stage of industrial capitalism and pass from the primitive forms of economy to the stage of Soviet economy. To be able to perform this very difficult but by no means impossible operation, it is necessary to take into account all the specific features of the economic condition, and even of the historical past, manner of life and culture of these nationalities. It would be unthinkable and dangerous to transplant to the territories of these nationalities the measures that had force and significance here, in central Russia. Clearly, in applying the economic policy of the R.S.F.S.R., it is absolutely necessary to take into account all the specific features of the economic condition, the class structure and the historical past confronting us in these border regions. There is no need for me to dwell on the necessity of putting an end to such incongruities as, for example, the order issued by the People's Commissariat of Food that pigs be included in the food quotas to be obtained from Kirghizia, the Moslem population of which has never raised pigs. This example shows how obstinately some people refuse to take into account peculiarities of the manner of life which strike the eye of every traveller. but usually, he writes like this: The National Question and Leninism: Reply to Comrades Meshkov, Kovalchuk, and Others posted:I have received your letters. They are similar to a number of letters on the same subject I have received from other comrades during the past few months. I have decided, however, to answer you particularly, because you put things more bluntly and thereby help the achievement of clarity. True, the answers you give in your letters to the questions raised are wrong, but that is another matter—of that we shall speak below. very demonstrative. Tbqh, it works - Stalin is a lot more readable than many other communists. Marxists.org has his entire collection if you are interested
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Aug 27, 2021 12:21
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also will add Anarchism or Socialism?dead gay comedy forums posted:honestly? read his own stuff, it's good. Stalin at his peak in that sense (in the 10s and 20s) is a very interesting read because he is definitely not a theoretician-type like Mao or Lenin, his writing is very concise and straightforward, very Hemingwayan. Yet, he has a certain knack - a sort of autodidact bookishness is the best way to describe that for me - that permeates his thinking but it isn't evident at first at all. Like, for example, if he bothers to write like this... yeah if you are someone who struggles with theory because its "boring" then Stalin would probably be a breath of fresh air. lots of fun, very accessible, and still very relevant.
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Aug 27, 2021 14:40
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:also will add Anarchism or Socialism? "We are not the kind of people who, when the word "anarchism" is mentioned, turn away contemptuously and say with a supercilious wave of the hand: "Why waste time on that, it's not worth talking about!" We think that such cheap "criticism" is undignified and useless." going to have to disagree with stalin here
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Aug 27, 2021 17:09
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i don't, because the reason for that quote is "We believe that the Anarchists are real enemies of Marxism. Accordingly, we also hold that a real struggle must be waged against real enemies." 
Truga has issued a correction as of 17:19 on Aug 27, 2021 |
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Aug 27, 2021 17:16
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strange feelings re Daisy posted:His channel is good. It's not just funny shouty stuff all the time either, he often rebuts anti-communists with detailed ML theory and history. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yj7dVFXdp8 Lmao
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Aug 27, 2021 18:30
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i go back and forth on whether mao or stalin is my favorite theoretician when it comes to writing style
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Aug 27, 2021 21:24
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aside from ellman and bernard, does anyone have any recommendations for works specifically about the history of socialist housing? it can be from the perspective of planning, architecture, economics, policy, whatever. just looking for something that will give a good breakdown, maybe even critique, everything important that's been attempted
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Aug 27, 2021 23:06
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Aug 27, 2021 23:18
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God Hole posted:aside from ellman and bernard, does anyone have any recommendations for works specifically about the history of socialist housing? it can be from the perspective of planning, architecture, economics, policy, whatever. just looking for something that will give a good breakdown, maybe even critique, everything important that's been attempted Stories of House and Home: Soviet Apartment Life During the Khrushchev Years by Christine Varga-Harris
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Aug 27, 2021 23:56
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I love communism
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Aug 28, 2021 02:13
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indigi posted:I love communism me too
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Aug 28, 2021 02:20
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gradenko_2000 posted:Stories of House and Home: Soviet Apartment Life During the Khrushchev Years by Christine Varga-Harris thank you
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Aug 28, 2021 02:37
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Finished Black Legend. Overall an interesting read. I think that the translation did some wacky things, because it will randomly go from being incredibly easy to read to a mess of academese and philosophical terms. Losurdo gives a lot more leeway to elements of the Great Terror, notably the idea that there was ever fear of a real fifth column in the USSR, but overall I enjoyed it. I have become a true centrist on Stalin: He was a smart and capable man who made some good choices and some bad ones; all of which were brought on by examination of the material circumstances at hand. the troof is in the middle. One thing I did notice while reading: throughout my research into Stalin it looks like the man was deeply invested in the national question and preserving the culture of Soviet minorities, which makes sense considering his ethnic background. However there is a lot of conflicting information on how minorities were treated in the Soviet Union. For every one story of the USSR fiercely protecting a minority language you get two of it cracking down on the languages and rights of minorities. As tempting as it is to say that those latter stories are all CIA propaganda, there has to be some truth to it. This crackdown tends to be foisted upon Stalin, but I'd be interested in knowing if it started under him or was a latter policy, if it was a policy at all.
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Aug 28, 2021 06:52
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mcclay posted:the idea that there was ever fear of a real fifth column in the USSR iirc Ferrinus has posted better about this with sources and stuff but as a casual I’ll say that this fear was genuine and even aside from the kulaks industrial sabotage was happening regularly in the 20s-30s, and they’d just finished a war against counterrevolutionaries including Brits and Americans. they had plenty of reason to worry about class enemies
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Aug 28, 2021 07:11
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wtf louis proyect died???
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Aug 28, 2021 07:22
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https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1431351199886946304?s=20
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Aug 28, 2021 07:26
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Louis Proyect: hey guys, sorry I'm late David Graeber: yo! Domenico Losurdo: Buongiorno! Glen Ford: Let's get this party started!
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Aug 28, 2021 07:42
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gradenko_2000 posted:Louis Proyect: hey guys, sorry I'm late i parsed that as gerald ford at first
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Aug 28, 2021 07:47
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maybe it could be him. you're allowed to hang out with new crowds in the afterlife.
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Aug 28, 2021 07:53
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indigi posted:they’d just finished a war against counterrevolutionaries including Brits and Americans. i wouldn't use the word "just" when it ended 14 years prior you wouldn't say that george bush "just" left office
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Aug 28, 2021 09:20
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Enjoy posted:i wouldn't use the word "just" when it ended 14 years prior afaik the sabotage started almost immediately after the civil war and kept up through the 30s. then the kulaks were a looming issue until the state got started liquidating their property and killing/exiling/gulaging people. it didn’t take 14 years for Stalin to get paranoid and fabricate the existence of a fifth column when they’d been dealing with it (or putting off dealing with it) the entire time
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Aug 28, 2021 10:20
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indigi posted:afaik the sabotage started almost immediately after the civil war and kept up through the 30s. then the kulaks were a looming issue until the state got started liquidating their property and killing/exiling/gulaging people. it didn’t take 14 years for Stalin to get paranoid and fabricate the existence of a fifth column when they’d been dealing with it (or putting off dealing with it) the entire time okay make that argument but don't justify the purges on the basis of events 14 years prior
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Aug 28, 2021 10:31
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