CanPol 2024: the religious experience of pissing on dolphins

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol 2024: the religious experience of pissing on dolphins

«‹›852 »

(Thread IKs: ZShakespeare)

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Honestly, I don't see it as particularly Albertan or conservative. What's everyone looking at that makes him seem like that?

# ? Aug 27, 2021 18:20

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 1, 2024 13:32

Normy: Jul 1, 2004; Do I Krushchev?

PT6A posted:

Honestly, I don't see it as particularly Albertan or conservative. What's everyone looking at that makes him seem like that?

I don't see it either

# ? Aug 27, 2021 18:22

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

A man wearing a jacket and a shirt?

Well now I've seen everything...

# ? Aug 27, 2021 18:25

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

Yeah it's definitely the blue-on-blue shirt

The Jagr haircut and no tie mark him as "not a tory" to me

# ? Aug 27, 2021 18:26

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

PT6A posted:

A man wearing a jacket and a shirt?

Well now I've seen everything...

I want a man with a loooong shirt and a short jacket

# ? Aug 27, 2021 18:30

Tippecanoe: Jan 26, 2011

Huh, I thought it was the hair that made him look conservative. Guess I was wrong. In any case, the lack of asymmetric tie knot is a dead giveaway for non-conservative

# ? Aug 27, 2021 18:31

Rockstar Massacre: Mar 2, 2009; i only have a crazy life
because i make risky decisions
from a position of
unreasonable self-confidence

My home riding still has no NDP candidate, but I recently found out that a local progressive darling , with a tremendous amount of local support, experience and ground game, as well as being one of the best independent political reporters in Alberta, got in touch with the riding association to put his name in as candidate - and was largely told his views are too radical and he's too public about it. He mostly does stale number crunching and fact checking with a very neutral tone.

He's running independent now, lol good job NDP.

# ? Aug 27, 2021 18:39

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Rockstar Massacre posted:

My home riding still has no NDP candidate, but I recently found out that a local progressive darling , with a tremendous amount of local support, experience and ground game, as well as being one of the best independent political reporters in Alberta, got in touch with the riding association to put his name in as candidate - and was largely told his views are too radical and he's too public about it. He mostly does stale number crunching and fact checking with a very neutral tone.

He's running independent now, lol good job NDP.

NDP are incredibly picky about candidates but for all the wrong reasons. They're also terrified of actual leftists ever getting involved. Like not communists or socialists, just actual soc-dems is too radical for their attempts at marketing the party to middle class centrist canadian voters.

# ? Aug 27, 2021 18:48

Normy: Jul 1, 2004; Do I Krushchev?

Do riding associations get to decide how candidates are selected? In some ways the primary system in the US seems more democratic than what we have here for selecting candidates.

# ? Aug 27, 2021 19:20

Typo: Aug 19, 2009; Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

eXXon posted:

The FIRE sector (Finance, Insurance and Real Estate) is an absurdly large fraction of the economy in basically every province (and I'm going to assume territory too).

Imagine if housing prices started declining - what would happen to all the Realtors (TM), contractors/hardware stores, the ~70k new condo units being designed and built every year in the GTA (I think it's up to 20k+ per quarter), the banks lending money to finance all of this poo poo, etc. etc.

Canada is truly innovative in that Canadians discovered how to have an economy by selling houses to each other

Fed gov should promise to invest in bitcoin mines to make canada #1 producer in world: ensuring prosperity for our children and grandchildren

Canadian economy can just become all about money laundering and money laundering associated activites

# ? Aug 27, 2021 19:20

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

Typo posted:

Canadian economy can just become all about money laundering and money laundering associated activites

Become?

# ? Aug 27, 2021 19:28

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

Normy posted:

Do riding associations get to decide how candidates are selected? In some ways the primary system in the US seems more democratic than what we have here for selecting candidates.

The last NDP candidate here was acclaimed by the riding association because she basically ran it, but my understanding is that the party leader can designate whomever the hell they want

# ? Aug 27, 2021 19:29

Normy: Jul 1, 2004; Do I Krushchev?

flakeloaf posted:

The last NDP candidate here was acclaimed by the riding association because she basically ran it, but my understanding is that the party leader can designate whomever the hell they want

We had somewhat of a primary to fill Libby Davies' seat here but I'm not sure what the barriers for entry were. Same with the Hedy Fry challenger last election. I guess some ridings are just more competitive and have more of a spotlight.

# ? Aug 27, 2021 19:34

Typo: Aug 19, 2009; Chernigov Military Aviation Lyceum
The Fighting Slowpokes

We need to get the U of T campus to be like the Japanese imperial palace.

In the sense that the palace was once valued to be worth more than the state of California. Once we get there we can just sell it and buy a real economy from another country.

# ? Aug 27, 2021 19:39

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

ZeeBoi posted:

they'll change their tune once there is an alberta variant

naw, they'll be proud of it

rockin these bumper stickers

# ? Aug 27, 2021 20:23

Blood Boils: Dec 27, 2006; Its not an S, on my planet it means QUIPS

Rockstar Massacre posted:

My home riding still has no NDP candidate, but I recently found out that a local progressive darling , with a tremendous amount of local support, experience and ground game, as well as being one of the best independent political reporters in Alberta, got in touch with the riding association to put his name in as candidate - and was largely told his views are too radical and he's too public about it. He mostly does stale number crunching and fact checking with a very neutral tone.

He's running independent now, lol good job NDP.

Can you source this? Not that I don't believe it, but I'd like to have harder evidence than hearsay to point to when arguing with peeps

# ? Aug 27, 2021 21:18

Peaceful Anarchy: Sep 18, 2005; sXe
I am the math man.

Blood Boils posted:

Can you source this? Not that I don't believe it, but I'd like to have harder evidence than hearsay to point to when arguing with peeps

It's always going to be hearsay, I assume the source is the candidate himself and anyone who is arguing with you about it will say "there was probably another reason they're not mentioning." I really doubt the NDP sends rejected candidates an explicit reason for rejection, rather than a form letter. Reasons like "values fit" will always be spoken so that there's no proof.

# ? Aug 27, 2021 21:27

Vintersorg: Mar 3, 2004; President of
the Brendan Fraser
Fan Club

Hi, my name is James Teitsma your Conservative fuckface and I believe these health mandates are equivalent to Japanese internment camps and residential schools.

- image incase he deletes

quote:

THOUGHTS ON VACCINE MANDATES AND PASSPORTS
Would you rather be safe or free?

Canada prides itself on being tolerant and free. That pride has taken more than a few significant blows over the years. Forcing Indigenous children to attend residential schools, sterilizing intellectually disabled and indigenous women without consent (including the creation of Eugenics Boards), and sending Ukrainian and Japanese Canadians to interment camps come to mind as some of the worst stains in our country�s brief history.
One thing these human rights violations have in common: they were popular and favored by the public.

Before I continue, let me just say that I am fully vaccinated. My wife and children are fully vaccinated. I believe scientific evidence supports the efficacy of vaccines in preventing serious illness and I publish statistics that show the same. I actively encourage my extended family, friends, and members of my community to get vaccinated.

I also understand that our rights and freedoms have limits. I�m free to drive, but I need to have a license to be on a public roadway. I�m free to drink alcohol, but only if I am of age. I�m never free to drink and drive at the same time. These last months have seen significant restrictions and limitations on our freedoms. Our hospitals have filled to the brim and beyond on more than one occasion. In our society, government bears the responsibility for enacting public health restrictions. These restrictions, virtually by definition, infringe upon constitutional rights. That�s why Manitoba�s chief public health officer Dr. Roussin has said on more than one occasion that it is important that such restrictions be time-constrained and their scope be kept to the minimum required.

This week has seen a flood of support for widespread mandatory vaccination and expanded use of vaccine passports. Such measures appear to be popular. But are we thinking it through? Let�s ask ourselves some questions.
1) WILL VACCINE MANDATES RESULT IN ALMOST EVERYONE GETTING VACCINATED? No. Mandating vaccines and introducing and broadening the use of vaccine passports is likely to INCREASE vaccine hesitancy and decrease uptake. People who have historically been marginalized in society like black people, other people of color, and smaller religious groups tend to be suspicious of government. Vaccine mandates could increase that hesitancy while stigmatizing and marginalizing those same people and subjecting some of them to severe economic hardship. It�s one thing to be excluded from attending a Bomber game or concert. It�s quite another to prevent someone from earning a living. Mandatory vaccinations may increase our uptake from 81% to 90%, but we will never get to 100%. Along the way, we create a more divided society.

2) CAN VACCINATED PEOPLE GET INFECTED AND TRANSMIT THE VIRUS? Yes. So, when we insist that health care workers, for example, all be vaccinated, we cannot be under any illusion that this will eliminate the presence of the virus in those settings. You are at a higher risk of transmission going to a Bomber�s game with thousands of vaccinated people than you are in having two of your non-vaccinated, non-symptomatic family members come for a visit.

3) WHY ARE PEOPLE REFUSING THE VACCINE? While loud voices in government, the media and the general public might be telling you that unvaccinated people are selfish, obnoxious and misinformed, the reality is more complex. Some are extremely careful about what they put into their bodies, using only natural treatments instead of pharmaceutical ones. Others have had a terrible experience with government or medicine in another country (or in Canada). Others have medical conditions that make vaccination inadvisable or at least risky enough to give them pause. You and I may disagree with their reasoning. I have personally debunked more than a few false claims made by those opposed to vaccinations. But at the end of the day, in a tolerant and free society, we need to have room for people to believe what they believe. Canada cannot claim to be a tolerant and free society if it runs roughshod over the rights of a minority for the sake of the majority.

4) IS IT LEGAL TO MANDATE VACCINATIONS IN A WORKPLACE? The answer to this question is nuanced and complex. First of all, the employer needs to show reasonable grounds for making such a demand. That�s why only sectors that work with the vulnerable (Health, Education, Justice) were the target of vaccine mandates by Manitoba�s government and not all employees generally as with Trudeau�s approach at the federal level. Secondly, reasonable accommodations need to be made, especially for those who have conscientious objections or receive medical advice encouraging them to refuse or delay taking the vaccine. That�s why testing is often offered as an option (though again, Trudeau offers no such accommodation). Thirdly, if vaccination wasn�t a condition of employment beforehand, the employer needs to be prepared to pay severance to make it a condition now (e.g. between 2-4 weeks of pay per year of service). We have personal care homes in Manitoba that are chronically understaffed. Many staff in these settings belong to those same groups � black people, people of color, smaller religious groups � that are suspicious of government and more likely to reject vaccine mandates. What will we do if even half of those unvaccinated reject the mandate and leave their jobs? The same question applies to schools.

5) IS IT PROPORTIONATE? This is probably the toughest paragraph for me to write. It�s hard to wrap your head around the fact that, taking into account all causes of death, one Manitoban dies every 45 minutes. It might surprise you to learn that an average of 2-3 Manitobans die each day from respiratory ailments like Covid-19, the flu and RSV (respiratory syncytial virus). My own daughter nearly died from RSV as an infant. She is not alone. RSV kills hundreds of children under 2 years old every year in North America. All these deaths are tragic. As Dr. Roussin says, �we need to learn to live with this virus�. What he implies is: �some of us will die from this virus�. Just as dozens of Manitobans die each year from the flu, so dozens of Manitobans will die each year from Covid-19 for decades to come. I wish it were possible to prevent all these deaths, but it simply isn�t. Zero deaths is not an option. It�s the hundreds or thousands of deaths per year scenarios we are striving to avoid. Widespread availability of the Covid-19 vaccine in Canada has changed the game. Among the fully vaccinated, Covid-19 is behaving more and more like the seasonal flu in terms of severe outcomes. Among the older unvaccinated, it remains deadly. Among those ineligible to be vaccinated (11 years or younger), Covid-19 was never much more severe than the seasonal flu or RSV.

During the third wave in Manitoba, government made law breakers out of most of their citizens. Some of the most careful and cautious rule followers confessed to me that they did something that, while Covid-careful, was against public health orders. They �broke the law� and yet their conscience is clean. That tells you that the public health orders were too much for too long. The result is that they are ineffective as many completely ignore them and others find room within the orders to do what may continue to spread the virus.

There are those in public health and government who want vaccine cards to be required to enter churches, restaurants, universities, gyms, and more. This goes too far. I am writing this not knowing what new public health restrictions will be announced today. I believe government needs to focus on how people can go about their lives safely, instead of telling them what they cannot do and where they cannot go. For example, government has no business telling churches to disallow certain individuals from attending worship. These are dangerous precedents that will only deepen divisions in our society, and further stigmatize the minority.
We should continue to encourage people to get the vaccine. But we should allow them to make that choice themselves. Forcing or coercing them to be vaccinated is wrong. Threatening them with job loss counts as coercion. Telling them they cannot obtain a university education counts as coercion.

Freedom comes at a price. Are we willing to pay it?
James Teitsma
MLA for RADISSON

Vintersorg fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Aug 27, 2021

# ? Aug 27, 2021 21:39

Randalor: Sep 4, 2011

quote:

Would you rather be safe or free?

Oh! Oh! Safe! Safe is good!

quote:

Freedom comes at a price. Are we willing to pay it?

Amazing how this poo poo is only said when it's about people NOT wanting to do the right thing, and how it's their "freedom" to endanger the rest of us, and how we're the baddies for not respecting their fee fees.

# ? Aug 27, 2021 21:48

InfiniteZero: Sep 11, 2004; PINK GUITAR FIRE ROBOT; College Slice

Vintersorg posted:

image incase he deletes

He won't delete it. The MB Conservatives are now in the process of attacking each other. Heather Stefanson is claiming that all along she was secretly not agreeing with Pallister too. I assume she did things like second Bill 64 as part of a brilliant scheme to bring down Pallister from within you see.

# ? Aug 27, 2021 22:07

Trapick: Apr 17, 2006

Randalor posted:

Amazing how this poo poo is only said when it's about people NOT wanting to do the right thing, and how it's their "freedom" to endanger the rest of us, and how we're the baddies for not respecting their fee fees.

Also the "price" in this case is a very safe vaccine (and maybe wearing a mask, I'm sure he's against that too). loving conservatives.

# ? Aug 27, 2021 22:22

Rockstar Massacre: Mar 2, 2009; i only have a crazy life
because i make risky decisions
from a position of
unreasonable self-confidence

Blood Boils posted:

Can you source this? Not that I don't believe it, but I'd like to have harder evidence than hearsay to point to when arguing with peeps

Peaceful Anarchy posted:

It's always going to be hearsay, I assume the source is the candidate himself and anyone who is arguing with you about it will say "there was probably another reason they're not mentioning." I really doubt the NDP sends rejected candidates an explicit reason for rejection, rather than a form letter. Reasons like "values fit" will always be spoken so that there's no proof.

it's not a big community, they don't really have the means to hide their reasoning, but yeah it's absolutely going to be hearsay because it's not even in writing and it never will be. I know at least two people privy to the decision making process personally and I'm willing to bet the candidate in question knows more, he may even have been in the room himself.

I'll ask him direct if I make it home before election time

# ? Aug 27, 2021 22:56

redbrouw: Nov 14, 2018; ACAB

Powershift posted:

naw, they'll be proud of it

rockin these bumper stickers

Change the heart to a nose

# ? Aug 28, 2021 00:05

folytopo: Nov 5, 2013

Rockstar Massacre posted:

it's not a big community, they don't really have the means to hide their reasoning, but yeah it's absolutely going to be hearsay because it's not even in writing and it never will be. I know at least two people privy to the decision making process personally and I'm willing to bet the candidate in question knows more, he may even have been in the room himself.

I'll ask him direct if I make it home before election time

I can see a riding association just dumpstering a candidate and stonewalling them and national not really having enough time to care unless it was a pickup seat. I thought vetting was a bit better and allowed in at least a few solid democratic socialists.

# ? Aug 28, 2021 00:23

Albino Squirrel: Apr 25, 2003; Miosis more like meiosis

Rockstar Massacre posted:

My home riding still has no NDP candidate, but I recently found out that a local progressive darling , with a tremendous amount of local support, experience and ground game, as well as being one of the best independent political reporters in Alberta, got in touch with the riding association to put his name in as candidate - and was largely told his views are too radical and he's too public about it. He mostly does stale number crunching and fact checking with a very neutral tone.

He's running independent now, lol good job NDP.

Kim Siever, eh?

My local NDP candidate is Heather MacKenzie (not to be confused with Heather McPherson who is the candidate for Edmonton Strathcona and is currently the only non-CPC MP in Alberta). MacKenzie at least makes affordable housing the primary issue in her blurb on the website, and I'll probably vote for her even though Edmonton Centre is a tossup between the CPC and the LPC.

I did look further into my local Libertarian candidate Valerie Keefe and holy gently caress:

Valerie Keefe posted:

First Things First: An electoral coalition between all candidates of all parties who are pledged to withhold confidence from any government which does not immediately commence Crimes Against Humanity Prosecutions against the perpetrators of coercive mandates for dubious medical interventions, including, but not limited to: Masking, social distancing, lockdowns, and Spike-Protein-Generating-Injections frequently referred to as vaccines.

Kinda glad I didn't get into a discussion on vaccines with her the other day, there's no reasoning with that kind of crazy.

# ? Aug 28, 2021 00:23

Frank Dillinger: May 16, 2007; Jawohl mein herr!

Albino Squirrel posted:

I did look further into my local Libertarian candidate Valerie Keefe and holy gently caress:

Kinda glad I didn't get into a discussion on vaccines with her the other day, there's no reasoning with that kind of crazy.

These are the kinds of people I wish would show up on my front step so I can tell them to get the gently caress off it. It�s always people looking for donations to cure illnesses or help people get guide dogs, never anything fun.

# ? Aug 28, 2021 03:01

ZeeBoi: Jan 17, 2001

https://twitter.com/CP24/status/1431388855501000710

What a surprise

# ? Aug 28, 2021 03:05

Fidelitious: Apr 17, 2018; MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.

flakeloaf posted:

Local Dipper candidate status: Good but it doesn't matter because she's not winning.

Oh cool, I've got a candidate now.

That said, why's there always gotta be support for small business as part of the platform. gently caress small businesses, they're often the biggest bastards around. They're doing fine, they don't need any more support.

# ? Aug 28, 2021 14:11

berenzen: Jan 23, 2012

Would you prefer a small oligarchy of big businesses instead?

As much as it would be nice to have the all companies in Canada be nothing but co-ops, that isn't going to happen, so the choices are support small local businesses trying to cut their niche in a marketplace that is getting increasingly crowded out by multinational conglomerates, or saying gently caress it go go full capitalist hellscape.

# ? Aug 28, 2021 17:07

ZShakespeare: Jul 20, 2003; The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose!

berenzen posted:

Would you prefer a small oligarchy of big businesses instead?

As much as it would be nice to have the all companies in Canada be nothing but co-ops, that isn't going to happen, so the choices are support small local businesses trying to cut their niche in a marketplace that is getting increasingly crowded out by multinational conglomerates, or saying gently caress it go go full capitalist hellscape.

This is the neoliberal future and the NDP is a neoliberal party. "small business" is just the way they sell it to us. It'll happen just as readily under an NDP government as it will under a Liberal or Conservative government.

# ? Aug 28, 2021 17:25

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

berenzen posted:

Would you prefer a small oligarchy of big businesses instead ... gently caress it go go full capitalist hellscape.

But this is basically the status quo?

# ? Aug 28, 2021 17:27

berenzen: Jan 23, 2012

eXXon posted:

But this is basically the status quo?

At least right now I have the illusion of being able to support a local business than "Walmart presents: your friendly local game store."

# ? Aug 28, 2021 17:32

pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

berenzen posted:

Would you prefer a small oligarchy of big businesses instead?

As much as it would be nice to have the all companies in Canada be nothing but co-ops, that isn't going to happen, so the choices are support small local businesses trying to cut their niche in a marketplace that is getting increasingly crowded out by multinational conglomerates, or saying gently caress it go go full capitalist hellscape.

As a customer, who gives a poo poo, there's rarely an observable difference.

As a government, who gives a poo poo, tax 'em all and enforce regulations.

As a worker, I'm not sure whether guaranteed stone cold indifference is better or worse than a 40% chance of serving in a petty dictatorship.

# ? Aug 28, 2021 17:47

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

berenzen posted:

Would you prefer a small oligarchy of big businesses instead?

As much as it would be nice to have the all companies in Canada be nothing but co-ops, that isn't going to happen, so the choices are support small local businesses trying to cut their niche in a marketplace that is getting increasingly crowded out by multinational conglomerates, or saying gently caress it go go full capitalist hellscape.

Small business associations are currently heading the "Roll back min wage" movement while they are constantly handed some of the largest tax breaks of any group in the country right now while I am forced to work 2 jobs just to not be homeless so you will maybe forgive me when I say let them all go broke nothing of value is lost.

# ? Aug 28, 2021 17:59

ARACHTION: Mar 10, 2012

There really needs to be a movement for workers coops. No one knows about them, and it would be so wonderful to have an alternative to working in a capitalist enterprise. If NDP was both pro small business and actually pro coop, like proposing laws that would favour their creation and even hire coop formation specialists to train workers how to do it I would run to the polls to vote for them.

Apparently in Italy, they have a law where if you and 9 laid off workers get together, you can choose to have your entire unemployment benefits paid off in one lump sum if you use it to start a cooperative business.

Everyone I talk to is in favour of this idea, including conservatives if you don�t mention it�s actually Marxist principle.

# ? Aug 28, 2021 19:27

Alctel: Jan 16, 2004; I love snails

Problem with coops is you need people to give a poo poo and have constant vigilance, otherwise they get looted by capital, as what happened to MEC (the board started demanding 10 years CEO experience, then refused to released the results of the latest election and then sold off the whole thing to a VC firm)

# ? Aug 28, 2021 19:51

Coxswain Balls: Jun 4, 2001

Alctel posted:

Problem with coops is you need people to give a poo poo and have constant vigilance, otherwise they get looted by capital, as what happened to MEC (the board started demanding 10 years CEO experience, then refused to released the results of the latest election and then sold off the whole thing to a VC firm)

MEC was a consumer cooperative, not a workers co-op. Presumably that kind of thing would be less likely when workers have more control over how the business is run rather than customers who are primarily concerned with getting stuff cheaply and have no experience with the day-to-day operations and working conditions, if they even care at all.

# ? Aug 28, 2021 22:30

ARACHTION: Mar 10, 2012

Coxswain Balls posted:

MEC was a consumer cooperative, not a workers co-op. Presumably that kind of thing would be less likely when workers have more control over how the business is run rather than customers who are primarily concerned with getting stuff cheaply and have no experience with the day-to-day operations and working conditions, if they even care at all.

Thanks for this, I was thinking this was the case. Most people�s understanding of a co-op is like MEC or a grocery store where you need to pay a fee to have a membership and then get to vote on business decisions as a customer.

A worker�s coop is quite different and most structures ask that people work as employees for several years before being allowed to buy in as an owner.

Richard Wolff�s podcast Economic Update will often talk about worker�s coops, people should that out, as well as Democracy At Work�s YouTube channel if you�re interested.

# ? Aug 28, 2021 22:45

heehee: Sep 5, 2012; haha wow i cant believe how lucky we got to win

saw this today, thought it was funny

# ? Aug 29, 2021 00:13

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 1, 2024 13:32

ARACHTION: Mar 10, 2012

heehee posted:

saw this today, thought it was funny

canadianpolitics.jpg

A government by and for the realtors

# ? Aug 29, 2021 00:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol 2024: the religious experience of pissing on dolphins

«‹›852 »