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The only bad thing about Nichol's death was the way the remaster tried to make Kira even less culpable for it than he was before.
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Aug 29, 2021 23:41
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The guro fetish line was meant to be a joke(for the most part), now if we had been talking about something like Devilman Crybaby, Psycho-Pass, or Blood-C than it wouldn't be a joke but those aren't exactly thread relevantchiasaur11 posted:There's also the Z'Gok, which suggests a few other OYW designs will be there, at least as mooks. Yeah my guess is we'll get the OYW for a couple stages as a prologue alongside the first couple episodes of Armageddon and a couple other of the shows on the roster that would fit and then skip ahead to the main meat of the game(which is going to be weird as hell considering the overall roster we have)
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Aug 29, 2021 23:49
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drrockso20 posted:The guro fetish line was meant to be a joke(for the most part), now if we had been talking about something like Devilman Crybaby, Psycho-Pass, or Blood-C than it wouldn't be a joke but those aren't exactly thread relevant GaoGaiGar Final would fit. Hell, if they were allowed/able/willing to, young Kouji and Tetsuya.
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Aug 29, 2021 23:53
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Endorph posted:but theres a few other instances of seed using it (and death in general tbh) in weird ways. I still can't get over the Three Ships Alliance Astray team just getting wiped out in a few passing eyeblink scenes and people essentially don't comment on it.
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Aug 30, 2021 00:13
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Inferno-sama posted:GaoGaiGar Final would fit. Hell, if they were allowed/able/willing to, young Kouji and Tetsuya. That would rule, because I love when the background story to a Super Robot Wars game is basically another unmade Super Robot Wars game. It adds a lot to the story when some of the characters already have connections to each other.
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Aug 30, 2021 00:38
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Ethiser posted:That would rule, because I love when the background story to a Super Robot Wars game is basically another unmade Super Robot Wars game. It adds a lot to the story when some of the characters already have connections to each other. The White Base crew consisting of Kouji Kabuto, the Getter Team, Amuro Ray, and Gai Shishioh having to be the only adult in the room.
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Aug 30, 2021 00:41
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Inferno-sama posted:The White Base crew consisting of Kouji Kabuto, the Getter Team, Amuro Ray, and Gai Shishioh having to be the only adult in the room. Katz, Kei and Mamoru are best friends thanks to their shared time as kids on the White Base.
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Aug 30, 2021 00:43
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SpaceDrake posted:I still can't get over the Three Ships Alliance Astray team just getting wiped out in a few passing eyeblink scenes and people essentially don't comment on it. Seriously. Those girls deserved better, either surviving, or better deaths.
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Aug 30, 2021 00:54
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Ethiser posted:Katz, Kei and Mamoru are best friends thanks to their shared time as kids on the White Base. Reminds me of an old idea I had for a game where at the start we have a prologue including GGG Final and the G Gundam prequel manga starring a young Master Asia(as well as Gunbuster, Getter Robo Armageddon and a few others), cue a few decades later for the main meat of the game and when a bunch of these heroes who had been lost for decades have returned they now have to fight their old ally now embittered by the events that have passed between Also that one of Mamoru's cute little classmates has grown up to be in charge of the Japanese branch of an organization called NERVE...
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Aug 30, 2021 01:00
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Ethiser posted:Katz, Kei and Mamoru are best friends thanks to their shared time as kids on the White Base. Add in Shiro Kabuto and I think we've set the stage for a Decade Long Quartet.
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Aug 30, 2021 01:52
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Kanos posted:I don't think the random OVA-level hyperviolence in SEED is someone having a "guro fetish", since that's hyperbolic nonsense, but it is absolutely something really weird and tonally dissonant about the series, especially since SEED Destiny did not continue with the random hyperviolence so it's not even like that's just Cosmic Era's thing. How in the hell is a bunch of blood tonally dissonant in a war drama intended for teens and older.
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Aug 30, 2021 02:07
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Because it clashes super heavily with aesthetic and mood of the entire rest of the show and the writers didn't have the chops to make that clash in tone work, basically. It just seemed out of place and vindictive rather than a statement about the true horrors of war or whatever. Granted I never got as far as the microwave blood bags sequence people described because SEED has a lot of problems that are much worse than just "sometimes people get gibbed and it's weird."
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Aug 30, 2021 02:33
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Psycho Landlord posted:Because it clashes super heavily with aesthetic and mood of the entire rest of the show and the writers didn't have the chops to make that clash in tone work, basically. It just seemed out of place and vindictive rather than a statement about the true horrors of war or whatever. While I'm not fond of SEED's ultragore, I think it can go either way. The shift from clean to horrible deaths can be very effecting to someone and SEED at least pretty much exclusively uses it at points where it is supposed to be uniquely awful. (i.e: deadly weapons of mass destruction or what is emphasized as a particularly tragic death.) I know there are people who like SEED who feel that the unexpected violence made the scenes hit harder and I think the "actually it's just a GURO FETISH" poo poo comes from people's dislike for SEED causing them to reach for the absolute worst interpretation of something. It's possible for a show to not work for you without it secretly being a sexual fetish. It's also possible to just not like extreme gore in a show. You don't need to make it something about the development team's character with no evidence besides "I want to hate them for making the wrong show." As far as it being mean and vindictive, it's not really something that stands out to me in Gundam as particularly mean or vindictive. If I had to point to a Gundam show where pretty much every death felt like someone's barely-contained anger boiling out it would be AGE which may not have goresplosions but sure loves pretty gross deaths none the less. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Aug 30, 2021 |
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Aug 30, 2021 02:47
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Psycho Landlord posted:Because it clashes super heavily with aesthetic and mood of the entire rest of the show and the writers didn't have the chops to make that clash in tone work, basically. It just seemed out of place and vindictive rather than a statement about the true horrors of war or whatever. Yeah. The original Gundam got bloody too, but it scaled to the rest of the mood, and usually punctuated a major plot beat. Char's legendary headshot was one of the goriest moments in the show, but it came as a climax to his arc, not just at random. Similarly, Iron Blooded Orphans is violent and grim (at one point showing a character's soiled trousers from his suicide) but it's part of the show's standard tone. Life is cheap, death is easy, and the leads live in the shadow of powers that could destroy them with a moment's focus, so of course there are horrible deaths. SEED, by contrast, doesn't really do much with its gory deaths. It just has them sometimes, in the same way it doesn't build up its war crimes by letting us get into the mindset of the people who commit them and the circumstances that lead to them, but just has people do war crimes to up the dramatics for an arc and give you someone to boo.
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Aug 30, 2021 02:54
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chiasaur11 posted:Yeah. The original Gundam got bloody too, but it scaled to the rest of the mood, and usually punctuated a major plot beat. Char's legendary headshot was one of the goriest moments in the show, but it came as a climax to his arc, not just at random. I mean I have to be fair and say that Blue Cosmos is an entirely reasonable and plausible villain taken in the context of the past decade. They are a group of rich influential racist assholes who are entirely inept and cruel and yet continue to make things miserable for everyone because it makes them money and lets him kill people they don't like. They literally have a plot about how they blamed a horrifying pandemic on 'those people' and everything.
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Aug 30, 2021 02:59
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General Revil posted:Seriously. Those girls deserved better, either surviving, or better deaths. I mean, I kind of get the idea. Char's Counterattack got a great moment from Amuro just casually wasting Guss and moving on, and there's some real punch from characters just... dying, if you do it right. The problem is, you need to give sufficient weight beforehand. Guss has scenes where he's a one man army, so Amuro casually kicking his rear end establishes Amuro as the deadliest thing in the setting. Likewise, if the Astray pilots had been major supporting characters, killing one or two of them so fast you almost don't notice, then showing the survivor in the hangar after the victory with a thousand yard stare would do a lot to convey that This Is War, that horrible things happen no matter who you are and no matter how promising a life you had ahead. But they're minor characters, and there's nothing to really punctuate their deaths after, so it just feels like they were Shrike team members. Disposable ways to up the drama without actually impacting the wider narrative. SEED is a bad show.
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Aug 30, 2021 03:17
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ImpAtom posted:While I'm not fond of SEED's ultragore, I think it can go either way. The shift from clean to horrible deaths can be very effecting to someone and SEED at least pretty much exclusively uses it at points where it is supposed to be uniquely awful. (i.e: deadly weapons of mass destruction or what is emphasized as a particularly tragic death.) I know there are people who like SEED who feel that the unexpected violence made the scenes hit harder and I think the "actually it's just a GURO FETISH" poo poo comes from people's dislike for SEED causing them to reach for the absolute worst interpretation of something. It's possible for a show to not work for you without it secretly being a sexual fetish. It's also possible to just not like extreme gore in a show. You don't need to make it something about the development team's character with no evidence besides "I want to hate them for making the wrong show." Sure but I'm not one of the people screaming about guro or whatever that dumb poo poo was, I was just answering that guy's question. Like I said, my issues with SEED go beyond sudden ultraviolence. Chiasaur already touched on this a bit but IBO is a perfect example within the franchise of a show that leverages gory death as an effective writing tool rather than just suddenly blood. Agreed about AGE though, that one's way worse on this front.
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Aug 30, 2021 03:28
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chiasaur11 posted:I mean, I kind of get the idea. Char's Counterattack got a great moment from Amuro just casually wasting Guss and moving on, and there's some real punch from characters just... dying, if you do it right. I like CCA, but it didn't really do that with Gyunei's death at all. CCA was clearly expected to be the end of all of these character's stories, which is why it kills them in droves. Gyunei dies pretty clearly because his moment in the sun is over. He had struggled with Amuro the entire movie and fell for Amuro's tricks time and time again and this time he just didn't survive and pretty much everyone else he could fight with was dead or about to die. And there's never a second for there to be any real mourning for anyone. Gyunei's death had about as much weight or punch as anyone else in the last half of the movie, which pretty much amounted to "it happened". Hell remember Rezun? Yeah, neither did I. General Revil posted:Seriously. Those girls deserved better, either surviving, or better deaths. I agree. SpaceDrake posted:(It doesn't help that the SEED Gundams are some of the most toyetic in the entire franchise, so you have Serious War Stuff going on and then you cut to the massively over-produced focused units like the Freedom or Calamity or what have you, and it just yanks you straight out of the moment. The first GENESIS firing is absolutely awful-slash-hilarious about this.) People already talked about how ridiculous describing SEED as having a guro fetish is, but  at the idea that SEED has 'the most toyetic' Mobile Suits. They're all riffs on previous protagonist units, and even beyond that aren't near that 'over-produced' for a Gundam show. Oh, hi, Freedom! Huh, not even Strike Freedom has anything on this. Or hell, from the very original Gundam.
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Aug 30, 2021 03:53
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Strike and Freedom both look pretty cool, and Destiny is one of my favorite gundams period. 
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Aug 30, 2021 03:59
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I first saw CCA as like a little kid maybe 12 after watching Gundam Wing, like I went straight to CCA after Wing because hey Blockbuster had a Gundam movie I like Gundam. Gyunei's death was so jarring and sudden to me that I remember rewinding the DVD several times like "Wait did he actually die just like that no it's like a Gundam thing he'll come back and have a cool dramatic death right?"
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Aug 30, 2021 04:08
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Kitfox88 posted:Strike and Freedom both look pretty cool, and Destiny is one of my favorite gundams period. Strike Freedom is actually my favorite mecha ever, and in fact SEED and SEED DEstiny have a lot of my favorites. So I hear you. Policenaut posted:I first saw CCA as like a little kid maybe 12 after watching Gundam Wing, like I went straight to CCA after Wing because hey Blockbuster had a Gundam movie I like Gundam. Gyunei's death was so jarring and sudden to me that I remember rewinding the DVD several times like "Wait did he actually die just like that no it's like a Gundam thing he'll come back and have a cool dramatic death right?" Yeah I had to rewatch it to even remember how he died. My only memory was the scene where Amuro surprises him with Fin Funnels so I could have sworn he had died then. Also this is a side note but rewatching CCA it's funny how insanely powerful vulcans are, considering there's multiple scenes of MS getting torn into itty bitty pieces by a spray of vulcans. Not just nu's vulcans, either. Hathaway shreds a Geara Doga, including shattering its shield in multiple places, just with a spray of vulcan rounds.
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Aug 30, 2021 04:18
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chiasaur11 posted:But they're minor characters, and there's nothing to really punctuate their deaths after, so it just feels like they were Shrike team members. Disposable ways to up the drama without actually impacting the wider narrative. How fitting that I'm shilling "pick which member of the Shrike team to kill" on my SRW streams. 
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Aug 30, 2021 04:26
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chiasaur11 posted:SEED, by contrast, doesn't really do much with its gory deaths.
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Aug 30, 2021 04:56
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chiasaur11 posted:Yeah. The original Gundam got bloody too, but it scaled to the rest of the mood, and usually punctuated a major plot beat. Char's legendary headshot was one of the goriest moments in the show, but it came as a climax to his arc, not just at random.  It is a really cool shot tho.
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Aug 30, 2021 05:20
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Endorph posted:Uh, Nicol's death drives the tension between the main characters for like a dozen episodes? Yeah, and Tolle's death before it is the major turning point moment where Kira stops holding back against Athrun Kinda worth noting that someone earlier calling Seed's gore "randomly OVA like" isn't exactly wrong, Tolle and Nicol's deaths were both redrawn in more detail for later releases and the HD remaster when they were much more tame originally (Tolle's was originally a kind of comical still frame not the slow motion close up of him eating a shield the way current releases of the show have). I'm pretty sure the Cyclops System exploding some poor ZAFT mook was the one thing that was there in the original without being made more detailed at a later point
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Aug 30, 2021 05:31
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ImpAtom posted:I mean I have to be fair and say that Blue Cosmos is an entirely reasonable and plausible villain taken in the context of the past decade. They are a group of rich influential racist assholes who are entirely inept and cruel and yet continue to make things miserable for everyone because it makes them money and lets him kill people they don't like. They literally have a plot about how they blamed a horrifying pandemic on 'those people' and everything. Which is weird cause the PLANTS are also rich assholes who live in their sky castles while Earth goes to poo poo. It's a war between two different kind of rear end in a top hat ruling classes.
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Aug 30, 2021 05:37
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MonsieurChoc posted:Which is weird cause the PLANTS are also rich assholes who live in their sky castles while Earth goes to poo poo. I mean, to the show's credit, it's very clear that the Dueling Rich Assholes Sending Other People To Die angle is very much intended as part of the show's politics; for all people complain about "nonsensical pacifism", the show has very strong opinions about the kinds of people who are willing to send others to die for their own gain and who are willing to even consider using weapons of mass destruction, and wants the heroes to stand in stark contrast to them. (And frankly, I have wondered for a while, long before the thread got into SEED Discourse™, about how much the timing of the show influenced how it was received. Some of the points it wants to try to make, and the way it portrays its villains, hit a little different in the 2020s as opposed to 2002-3.) I'm in the camp of the show having a lot of problems, but especially with time going on, the villains if anything get more believable by the year and are not one of those problems.
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Aug 30, 2021 06:05
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MonsieurChoc posted:Which is weird cause the PLANTS are also rich assholes who live in their sky castles while Earth goes to poo poo. Like I said! More realistic by the day. ... so, how 'bout them Getters? Boy they sure are crazy, huh?
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Aug 30, 2021 06:17
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ImpAtom posted:... so, how 'bout them Getters? Boy they sure are crazy, huh? Sure are! Getter Robo and Getter Robo G feel to me like strong candidates for possible DLC units in 30; both appear in Armageddon, they'd have an appeal as fan favourites, and they don't have HD sprites already so they wouldn't be cheaping out with them. I suppose putting them in a game that has a G-themed upgrade over Shin Getter might not fit great, but as far as alternate units to move characters into that aren't Mobile Suits they've got to be considered. I suppose the Noir Getters from X-Omega could be possibilities too.
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Aug 30, 2021 07:55
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1st Stage Midboss posted:Sure are! Getter Robo and Getter Robo G feel to me like strong candidates for possible DLC units in 30; both appear in Armageddon, they'd have an appeal as fan favourites, and they don't have HD sprites already so they wouldn't be cheaping out with them. I suppose putting them in a game that has a G-themed upgrade over Shin Getter might not fit great, but as far as alternate units to move characters into that aren't Mobile Suits they've got to be considered. I suppose the Noir Getters from X-Omega could be possibilities too. Black Shin Getter was also added to Getter Robo Arc's anime, so that could get the debut appeal if they were looking for it.
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Aug 30, 2021 08:17
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Getter is good. What is your favorite Getter? I am a fan of Poseidon myself.
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Aug 30, 2021 08:46
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Kchama posted:Strike Freedom is actually my favorite mecha ever, and in fact SEED and SEED DEstiny have a lot of my favorites. So I hear you. CE has some of my favorite grunts and limited production suits in the franchise, yeah. The hospital ZAKU pack is so cool. And my favorite getter is texas mack
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Aug 30, 2021 10:17
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Hellioning posted:Getter is good. What is your favorite Getter? I am a fan of Poseidon myself. Shin getter, but specifically the manga version.
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Aug 30, 2021 10:57
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Grounder from Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog. But in actual seriousness it's probably Neo Getter.
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Aug 30, 2021 11:21
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Probably the Black Getter from Armageddon. I know, I know, cliche pick, but I like machines with the smell of the scrapheap around them, and it provides a lot of the bright spots in Armageddon's weaker middle arc.
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Aug 30, 2021 12:07
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Davzz posted:Grounder from Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog. Neo Getter 2 is def. an improvement over Getter Sho. I don't like my Getters to have human faces.
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Aug 30, 2021 12:58
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1st Stage Midboss posted:Sure are! Getter Robo and Getter Robo G feel to me like strong candidates for possible DLC units in 30; both appear in Armageddon, they'd have an appeal as fan favourites, and they don't have HD sprites already so they wouldn't be cheaping out with them. I suppose putting them in a game that has a G-themed upgrade over Shin Getter might not fit great, but as far as alternate units to move characters into that aren't Mobile Suits they've got to be considered. I suppose the Noir Getters from X-Omega could be possibilities too. I'd be very surprised if the original Getter isn't playable in 30 when it's entire angle is nostalgia, and we know we have the RX-78-2 of all things as a playable unit. Mazinger Z isn't the original from an out-of-universe perspective, but it is from an in-universe one, so it'd be very weird to not have Getter Robo to complete the trio.
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Aug 30, 2021 13:16
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Droyer posted:Neo Getter 2 is def. an improvement over Getter Sho. I don't like my Getters to have human faces. Neo Getter 2 is super cool. It's slick and has both a cool drill and laser katana.
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Aug 30, 2021 13:16
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Why do they always refuse to put Neo Getter vs Shin Getter in anything other than B-list games and portables? 
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Aug 30, 2021 13:26
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Kanos posted:Why do they always refuse to put Neo Getter vs Shin Getter in anything other than B-list games and portables? Same but New Getter, the best getter ova.
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Aug 30, 2021 13:36
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