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Karma Comedian posted:Thanks for this, too, but the components are what they are; I've had these controllers and panels for a while now so the system is going in with each individual panel having an mppt. The 75/15 is very underpowered for one those panels at 12V, would barely be enough at 24V, so you made the right call there. You should check out some of the newer videos by Will Prowse, there are newer, very reasonably priced lifepo4 batteries on the market now. The Victron charge controllers are great for lifepo4, you can customize all the relevant settings. Do you have the newer SmartSolar controllers, or the older BlueSolar? They should be networked so they stay in sync. You'll also need a battery monitor, I recommend the smartshunt or the bmv-712.
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Aug 28, 2021 13:22
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Wibla posted:
This. I'm running their BlueSolar units. Definitely get the smartshunt. Lifepo4 fucks. Victron batteries are decent, having a BT enabled battery is kind of nice when the whole system is powered down. I'm using non heated Battleborns too which are solid. Some acquaintences of mine are running a Bestgo 400AH unit. This is the schematic to my setup that isn't a marine application but might as well be. Two different views provided of the same thing. Mostly block diagram and can be reworked to suit your needs.  The only reason why I have two MPPT controllers is due to physical space constraints.
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Aug 28, 2021 16:33
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So I have discovered microskiffs and holy crap they are awesome but super expensive. On the fishing charter I went on in the keys, the captain had a larger Hell's Bay skiff he said he paid 80k for. Fell in love with this one, but at 30k then having to buy a vehicle to tow it puts it way out of my wheelhouse but maybe one day. https://www.microskiff.com/threads/2008-hells-bay-glades-skiff-amazing-condition.92870/ So I'm going to keep looking for a Gheenoe, where we fish we can just lift it off the trailer and put it in the water which would be nice, then paddle or push pole it. Also looking into electric outboard motors, think I'll go in that direction instead of gas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMer4S6phFY Yeah it's only 3hp but where we fish that's all we need, until I can save up for a microskiff and vehicle to tow it.
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Aug 28, 2021 17:22
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I think I may have found the closest thing to a perfect used boat there is. The owner bought it new in 2020 then had a long haul bout with covid which messed him up. After meeting with him and his wife, we walked away thinking we should have brought food! Super nice folks. Well, they decided to get rid of it and I was able to come by and check it out. The ad photos suggested that it had 175 hours on it, which I would be alright with provided it was maintained. Turns out it has 17.5 hours!!!!!! The photo from the ad happened to be between the blanking decimal point on the display  It's loving new and the guy doesn't even fish. He was looking for a dual console or a bowrider and got upsold into a CC. It's a 2020 Robalo R200 with a Yamaha F150 on the back. I took it out for a shakedown cruise yesterday and realized how clueless the owner is. He didn't know that 7" Garmin touchscreen had a sonar on it until I turned it on. I almost feel bad paying ~50k for a rig that lists at close to 80 on the manufacturer's website with installed options. It's new in pretty much every possible manner and not a scratch on it. The only thing I'm going to double check so far is the skeg has signs of of being dragged through the sand, which is really just par for the course in the Big Bend, just to make sure the water passages haven't sucked up any grit. According to the service manual, that engine hasn't had its initial oil change which is recommended at 20 hours. It had good oil pressure and cooled like it should when I drove it, so I'm not too worried about it sitting as much as it has. It will be used multiple times a week under my ownership, just like my microskiff. I am in disbelief how quickly this thing gets on plane with only 150 HP. 20'6" with a 8'4" beam and a dry weight around 3600 pounds. It loving jumps out of the water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tHdULE4SLA (That's the current owner saying 'drat' in the video, apparently he had no idea you could gun a boat up on plane like that) That outboard is a 2.7 liter 4 banger and is one of the more bulletproof Yamaha's out there. At a nice 25 MPH cruise it was showing 4.5MPG. He needs to get rid of it as badly as I want to buy it, so it's looking like a slam dunk. e: formatting Farking Bastage fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Aug 28, 2021 |
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Aug 28, 2021 17:52
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That's a screaming deal. The 150s are pretty good, although they really don't like the cold (they make oil at low rpms way worse than either Honda or Suzuki). Far better than the 6-cylinders. If that's what you're looking for and can afford it, that's an instant buy. Robalo makes a decent boat, nice trailer, etc.
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Aug 28, 2021 18:01
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Farking Bastage posted:I think I may have found the closest thing to a perfect used boat there is. The owner bought it new in 2020 then had a long haul bout with covid which messed him up. After meeting with him and his wife, we walked away thinking we should have brought food! Super nice folks. Well, they decided to get rid of it and I was able to come by and check it out. The ad photos suggested that it had 175 hours on it, which I would be alright with provided it was maintained. Turns out it has 17.5 hours!!!!!! The photo from the ad happened to be between the blanking decimal point on the display Fuckin A. Not particularly related: I’m not a boat owner, but I got a targeted ad for the new Mercury Verado V12 outboard yesterday. I have no idea what in my browsing history implies that I’m a good target for a $75k 7.6L 600hp outboard, but here we are.
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Aug 28, 2021 18:06
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sharkytm posted:That's a screaming deal. The 150s are pretty good, although they really don't like the cold (they make oil at low rpms way worse than either Honda or Suzuki). Far better than the 6-cylinders. If that's what you're looking for and can afford it, that's an instant buy. Robalo makes a decent boat, nice trailer, etc. I really wanted a Cape Horn, but there are none to be found in any serviceable condition. I gave the owner a check for earnest money until I can get a cashiers check cut next week. I thought it was jam up too, but a second set of eyes is always a good thing.
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Aug 28, 2021 18:55
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Wibla posted:You should check out some of the newer videos by Will Prowse, there are newer, very reasonably priced lifepo4 batteries on the market now. Thanks I'll give them a look. Wibla posted:The Victron charge controllers are great for lifepo4, you can customize all the relevant settings. Do you have the newer SmartSolar controllers, or the older BlueSolar? I have the smartsolars for sure. Wibla posted:They should be networked so they stay in sync. You'll also need a battery monitor, I recommend the smartshunt or the bmv-712. The installer recommended getting the Cerbo and the Smartshunt, so that's next on the list. (I'm also gonna get that touch monitor because why not) I still need help figuring out how to size my new bank. I know I'm going about it rear end backwards but it's the situation I find myself in. So how do I figure how much that system is capable of charging? I'd want to size my bank around 85% or 90% of my max charging capacity so I minimize waste
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Aug 28, 2021 19:47
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Farking Bastage posted:I think I may have found the closest thing to a perfect used boat there is. The owner bought it new in 2020 then had a long haul bout with covid which messed him up. After meeting with him and his wife, we walked away thinking we should have brought food! Super nice folks. Well, they decided to get rid of it and I was able to come by and check it out. The ad photos suggested that it had 175 hours on it, which I would be alright with provided it was maintained. Turns out it has 17.5 hours!!!!!! The photo from the ad happened to be between the blanking decimal point on the display Coworker has a 2018 18' robalo CC with a 150 yam on it. Dude uses the gently caress out of it and has had no issues that he can report. And those 150s are absolute workhorses, I can count on one hand the number of warranty parts we've needed on them in the last 9 months I've worked at this dealership. I'd recommend draining and refilling the lower unit at the 20 hour service as well, just to clear out any lurking bullshit from the original machining/assembly.
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Aug 28, 2021 19:49
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Karma Comedian posted:Thanks I'll give them a look. Dakota Lithium is who i use. I have a 29 Ah lifepo in my micro and it weighs 4 pounds.
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Aug 28, 2021 20:13
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Elmnt80 posted:I'd recommend draining and refilling the lower unit at the 20 hour service as well, just to clear out any lurking bullshit from the original machining/assembly. This is good advice for pretty much any engine or gearbox. Break-in can make a little bit of metal.
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Aug 28, 2021 21:01
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Karma Comedian posted:Thanks I'll give them a look. Cerbo is nice, I can't really defend the extra outlay for my use case, but would want one otherwise. Already have a BMV-712 though  How big was your old bank? And what's your budget like? You have a fairly significant amount of (peak) charging power available with 1200W of solar, but don't worry about sizing the batteries to your solar (beyond making sure that whatever lifepo4 battery/batteries you choose have BMS that can handle the current you're planning on imposing on them. A couple of very important factors with lithium: 1. if you connect multiple batteries in parallell, you MUST use a busbar and identical length cables from the busbar to the individual batteries, or you will more than likely end up with imbalanced charging/discharge that will cycle one of the batteries significantly more than the other. This is easily avoided if you do it right. 2. You can add more batteries later if you need more, it's not like lead acid where you can only do that the first year (or so).
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Aug 28, 2021 22:25
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cursedshitbox posted:Lifepo4 fucks. Ayup. Break the cost down per-year: Lifepo4 lasts 2-3x as many years. Some live aboard folks replace house bank every 2-3 years, so extending that to 5-6 years saves money. Plus, the labled AH capacity is the actual capacity: lead acid's actual useable power is only 50% of what it says on the sticker. Plus, if you have a high power load like a fridge it won't dip the voltage, so it runs more efficiently and draws less amps. Never discharging under 20% doubles the charge cycles. Never charging over 80% also doubles the charge cycles. Store the batteries at 60% if you can and the battery bank will last for many, many years.
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Aug 29, 2021 08:19
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cursedshitbox posted:Lifepo4 fucks. I encourage everyone to go watch all of the SV Delos videos on their electrical system as they progress through a series of upgrades The big thing about lifepo4, besides the obvious two, 2000-4000+ cycles, and the fact that they're True Deep Cycle™, is charging efficiency: On a lead acid battery, charging efficiency is above 80%, close to 90%... Up until you hit 80-85% capacity. Then charging efficiency drops of a cliff, down to about 20%. If you're recharging from shore power, or engine alternator, who cares right. But on solar, your 200w panel under ideal conditions at noon is only charging your battery bank at 40w. My chart plotter + vhf radio/ais + fm stereo and interior lights pull about 86 watts, hopefully your mppt is smart enough to shunt the solar directly to the panel powering your devices On lifepo4, charging efficiency is 99% from 0% charge all the way up to 99% charge. You're getting 198w out of that same solar panel, minus line losses, maybe another 2 watts
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Aug 29, 2021 09:28
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There are a lot of ways you can gently caress up a lithium bank if you don't know what you're doing, though. The charge acceptance is so high that it's pretty easy to build a bank that's too big for your alternator so you may end up burning the alternator out because it's not meant to run at 100% load continuously for any meaningful period of time (and your engine compartment ventilation probably sucks too). You can also get a voltage spike that burns out the alternator's charge regulator if the BMS suddenly disconnects the battery bank for some reason while the alternator is running. Then there's the balancing issues, you really can't just connect 12V lithium batteries in parallel like you can with lead acid. Oh, and if you have heavy inductive loads like a windlass or bow thrusters you have to be careful about voltage spikes on BMS disconnect there too. It goes on, there's a lot of things you kinda have to know about with lithium. Lead acid sucks but it's very tolerant towards abuse and there's many decades of 12/24V products out there that kinda expect a lead acid battery being available to dump their garbage on.
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Aug 29, 2021 10:55
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Hadlock posted:On a lead acid battery, charging efficiency is above 80%, close to 90%... Up until you hit 80-85% capacity. Then charging efficiency drops of a cliff, down to about 20%. If you're recharging from shore power, or engine alternator, who cares right. But on solar, your 200w panel under ideal conditions at noon is only charging your battery bank at 40w. My chart plotter + vhf radio/ais + fm stereo and interior lights pull about 86 watts, hopefully your mppt is smart enough to shunt the solar directly to the panel powering your devices Coulombic efficiency dropping off a cliff + the high-ish internal resistance of lead acid (lower charge acceptance) at high state of charge means that it takes ages to hit float on lead acid using solar, and this is even worse when you're sailing and have electronics/autopilot etc running. Lithium handles this a lot better. TheFluff posted:There are a lot of ways you can gently caress up a lithium bank if you don't know what you're doing, though. The charge acceptance is so high that it's pretty easy to build a bank that's too big for your alternator so you may end up burning the alternator out because it's not meant to run at 100% load continuously for any meaningful period of time (and your engine compartment ventilation probably sucks too). You can also get a voltage spike that burns out the alternator's charge regulator if the BMS suddenly disconnects the battery bank for some reason while the alternator is running. Then there's the balancing issues, you really can't just connect 12V lithium batteries in parallel like you can with lead acid. Oh, and if you have heavy inductive loads like a windlass or bow thrusters you have to be careful about voltage spikes on BMS disconnect there too. It goes on, there's a lot of things you kinda have to know about with lithium. Lead acid sucks but it's very tolerant towards abuse and there's many decades of 12/24V products out there that kinda expect a lead acid battery being available to dump their garbage on. Spike loads can kill FET-based BMS, and they fail into an unsafe condition. You can parallell lithium batteries without any big issues, as long as they have (reasonably) similar state of charge. Best practices (for safety): - Use fuses rated for the short-circuit current capacity of lithium, we're talking kiloamps here - Keep the lead acid starter battery! - Strongly consider using DC-DC charger(s) - Have separate lead acid batteries for bow thruster and the anchor winch(es), or DIY a lifepo4 battery pack with contactor-based BMS - (IF DIY) Make sure you balance your pack properly before putting it in the boat. That means per-cell top balancing to 3.65V before assembling the pack. Best practices (for charging): - Keep your charge voltage below 14.2V - Don't float above 13.6V
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Aug 29, 2021 11:20
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Geez, lithium sounds like a pain in the dick on a boat 
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Aug 29, 2021 15:36
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Geez, lithium sounds like a pain in the dick on a boat Yeah, but IMO it's worth it
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Aug 29, 2021 16:14
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Wibla posted:Coulombic efficiency dropping off a cliff + the high-ish internal resistance of lead acid (lower charge acceptance) at high state of charge means that it takes ages to hit float on lead acid using solar, and this is even worse when you're sailing and have electronics/autopilot etc running. Strongly seconding this. Also yes, do keep your cables roughly equalized in length for parallel sets too otherwise your system will exercise the batteries unevenly. Alternators and Lithium don't mix, like mentioned above, use a dc-dc charger. Wibla posted:Yeah, but IMO it's worth it it absolutely is. For a weekender the hassle and expense may not be realized, for those that live aboard or take trips longer than a few days... The difference is astounding.
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Aug 29, 2021 16:34
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Wibla posted:The 75/15 is very underpowered for one those panels at 12V, would barely be enough at 24V, so you made the right call there. if you have a single panel per mppt, that panel is not going to push 15 amp nor 75 volts. Applebees Appetizer posted:Geez, lithium sounds like a pain in the dick on a boat easier then lead acids. wargames fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Aug 29, 2021 |
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Aug 29, 2021 17:30
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wargames posted:if you have a single panel per mppt, that panel is not going to push 15 amp nor 75 volts. Please tell me how 400W of power is less than 15A at 12V.
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Aug 29, 2021 18:25
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Wibla posted:Please tell me how 400W of power is less than 15A at 12V. is his bank 12v? I have been living in 48v space for a while. Also don't the number talk about input Amps and not output amps?
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Aug 29, 2021 21:53
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I need to give it a closer look, but it appears that Robalo has two fully redundant power systems in it. Being that it doesn't have a trolling motor, I'm not sure if one of those banks is deep cycle or not, but it had an A/B/Off selector switch.
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Aug 29, 2021 22:02
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wargames posted:is his bank 12v? I have been living in 48v space for a while. Yeah 12V as far as I can tell. The number before the / is the maximum solar voltage, the number after the / is maximum current output from the MPPT. It makes sense if you think about it a bit - the key numbers you want to know for an MPPT is the maximum input voltage it supports, and the maximum output current it supports. The fiddly bits (FETs and such) are generally limited by current more so than the heatsinking capacity, which is why the more expensive, larger MPPTs tend to support 12-48V system voltage, and even the smaller ones tend to support 12V and 24V at a minimum. This is why I tend to recommend that people build 24V systems if they have the option to do so if they are building lifepo in the 2-5 kWh range, have an array larger than 1 kW and want a reasonably sized inverter. Wibla fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Aug 29, 2021 |
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Aug 29, 2021 22:26
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wargames posted:is his bank 12v? I have been living in 48v space for a while. Yeah absolutely 12v Wibla posted:Coulombic efficiency dropping off a cliff + the high-ish internal resistance of lead acid (lower charge acceptance) at high state of charge means that it takes ages to hit float on lead acid using solar, and this is even worse when you're sailing and have electronics/autopilot etc running. This is awesome and just the kind of stuff I need. I found a 300ah lifepo4 from ampere time i think I'm going to get coming. It's almost a perfect fit for one side of the battery box. Karma Comedian fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Aug 29, 2021 |
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Aug 29, 2021 22:29
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Farking Bastage posted:I need to give it a closer look, but it appears that Robalo has two fully redundant power systems in it. Being that it doesn't have a trolling motor, I'm not sure if one of those banks is deep cycle or not, but it had an A/B/Off selector switch. Usually A is starting, B is Starting and deep cycle or just deep cycle, off is obviously none.
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Aug 29, 2021 22:36
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Normalize talking about batteries in Wh instead of Ah so we don't have to ask/specify the voltage also, re: delos & lithium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVWRL1wOJSU Kenshin fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Aug 29, 2021 |
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Aug 29, 2021 23:11
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Kenshin posted:Normalize talking about batteries in Wh instead of Ah so we don't have to ask/specify the voltage "I'm throwing 1kwh of solar on my boat" sounds awesome Kenshin posted:
I met these guys hah
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Aug 30, 2021 00:09
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I hope this is the right place to share this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OESn7mBbuC8 She looks brand new.
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Aug 30, 2021 00:54
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Godamn she must ride like steaming hot garbage that high in the water. Still pretty, though.
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Aug 30, 2021 01:00
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Farking Bastage posted:I need to give it a closer look, but it appears that Robalo has two fully redundant power systems in it. Being that it doesn't have a trolling motor, I'm not sure if one of those banks is deep cycle or not, but it had an A/B/Off selector switch. To add to what elmnt said: this is how any sizeable boat is wired. It's probably 2 starting batteries, unless they changed it out for some reason. We ran a simple system: is the date odd? Set it to "1". Even? "2". It'll guarantee that both batteries get used, so long as you use the boat regularly. Since it sounds like you're new to boats: 1. Try to never change that switch position between the "1", "2", and "both" with the engine running. It can throw a big spike and can cook the alternator diodes, electronics, or burn out the battery switch. Absolutely never turn it to "off" with the engine running. That will gently caress up many many things. 2. "Both" is when you gently caress up and kill one battery. It will combine the batteries so that you can start the engine. Once started, the alternator will charge both batteries. 3. Once you're done for the day, shut down the engine and set the switch to off. More times than not, your VHF and bilge pump(s) will be wired directly to the batteries, but maybe only to one of them. Figure this out and know what to do if you kill that battery. Make sure your radio is off, and regularly test your bilge pump(s). Good link on battery switches: https://marinehowto.com/1-2-both-battery-switch-considerations/ I did marine electronics for years on boats from 12' to 160'. Any questions? Fire away.
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Aug 30, 2021 02:20
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Also, don't accidentally leave your ignition in the "on" position and your battery switch on when you're not using the boat. Then you end up with a dead battery when you go to pull it out of the water ahead of a hurricane like I did yesterday with Ida. This is about as high as the water's been today, around high tide. Not really enough to float the boat out of the lift, but better safe than sorry. 
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Aug 30, 2021 03:09
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sharkytm posted:
I'm an amateur on big boats. The tech has moved so far forward since I last had anything bigger than a jon boat, I'm making sure I'm not about to gently caress something up. I rigged this guy up myself and I hunt redfish in the backwaters at night with it.  https://imgur.com/gallery/Qf1lUF0 https://imgur.com/gallery/nN1nspE Farking Bastage fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Aug 30, 2021 |
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Aug 30, 2021 04:25
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sharkytm posted:1. Try to never change that switch position between the "1", "2", and "both" with the engine running. It can throw a big spike and can cook the alternator diodes, electronics, or burn out the battery switch. Absolutely never turn it to "off" with the engine running. That will gently caress up many many things. Does this include the big red Perko switches? I've yet to fry anything (that I know of)
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Aug 30, 2021 08:55
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sharkytm posted:More times than not, your VHF and bilge pump(s) will be wired directly to the batteries, but maybe only to one of them. Is there a good reason to have the VHF radio wired directly to the batteries? We recently got a Catalina 25 and the VHF has its own panel switch and is behind the battery selector, so it's off when the selector is off, and that seems fine to me. The bilge pump is wired directly to the battery (there is currently only one battery, however the boat is set up for two if we want to get new batteries in the future). Our outboard is an electric start and is wired directly to the battery, but that seems like it should go through the selector switch instead? I added two little bus bars to make it easier to connect and disconnect the motor when we take it off for trailering, and I have to be slightly careful to avoid sparks since the other side is always live.
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Aug 30, 2021 12:58
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Ok, so I discovered this micro skiff builder near me. He's an experienced builder that worked for Hell's Bay and bought the design rights and molds for this boat. It looks loving amazing and my xB could tow it no problem. Reasonable price too, about ten grand for the hull with an aluminum trailer. Thinking about going to his shop which is on the water and testing one out. It's called the Nano made by Nanocraft. https://nanocraftboats.com/nano13/ Look at this loving boat. Yeah it's tiny so what.  
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Aug 30, 2021 15:08
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Erwin posted:Is there a good reason to have the VHF radio wired directly to the batteries? We recently got a Catalina 25 and the VHF has its own panel switch and is behind the battery selector, so it's off when the selector is off, and that seems fine to me. The bilge pump is wired directly to the battery (there is currently only one battery, however the boat is set up for two if we want to get new batteries in the future). And yes, your outboard should go to the selector switch if installed. Imagine the starter solenoid sticks or the pressurized fuel line busts... If you need to disconnect it, get Anderson Powerpole connectors installed (and I mean professionally installed). SB175s are what I use on trailer winches, big outboards, and jumper cables. They might be overkill for your outboard, but there are smaller SB50s. Check your outboard manual for the alternator output. If you're taking it off by hand, I imagine an SB50 is probably overkill. Hadlock posted:Does this include the big red Perko switches? I've yet to fry anything (that I know of) It all depends on the install. If the alternator field winding has a disconnect, and it's connected correctly, you should be safe even switching to off. It's bad practice, and if that wire ever gets disconnected, damaged, or corrodes, you'll nuke the alternator and possibly all the 12v electronics. Also, good switches are "make before break", meaning that it'll connect the other battery before disconnecting the current battery. However, this feature wears out and should be tested occasionally (I did it once every 6 months on our little research boats). Perko makes solid stuff, but everything wears out and corrodes. Check the link I posted about how to test it with a test light. I'm a huge fan of the Blue Sea Systems ACR system (and the prior one, the VSR, as well). It'll top off your engine battery and charge a house battery automatically, simplifying the whole process. They even make a charger that integrates well, and will handle shore and alternator power based charging.
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Aug 30, 2021 15:52
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Ok, so I discovered this micro skiff builder near me. He's an experienced builder that worked for Hell's Bay and bought the design rights and molds for this boat. It looks loving amazing and my xB could tow it no problem. Reasonable price too, about ten grand for the hull with an aluminum trailer. Thinking about going to his shop which is on the water and testing one out. It's called the Nano made by Nanocraft. gently caress yes.
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Aug 30, 2021 16:18
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Farking Bastage posted:gently caress yes. Those things are nice looking but I noticed they don't list any pricing on their website. So you know what they say "If you have to ask". Here is one that apparently sold for 15k. https://www.microskiff.com/threads/sold-2020-nanocraft-hell%E2%80%99s-bay-skate.82828/ Valt fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Aug 30, 2021 |
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Aug 30, 2021 16:40
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Reasonable price too, about ten grand for the hull with an aluminum trailer.
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Aug 30, 2021 16:42
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