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TheWeedNumber posted:I’m actual curious to see some data on that. Where could I find some? While the sample size was tiny I knew everyone who had some sort of disorder in my BUD/S class because they called everyone who scored weird on the MMPI-esque battery of tests in a public way for one on ones during prep. Plus, people tended to be surprisingly open/vulnerable for such a macho culture so we talked and joked about it since it was like a semi-tribal community at that point in training since we went through boot camp together and all got in shitloads of trouble as a class for pranking RDCs and other boots. I’m a psych major and actually took some half assed notes out of curiosity and tracked how well the guys who got sat down with stuff like anxiety disorders did compared for the “normal people.” I quit late enough that I could at least guess the trend, and hit up a friend who graduated for the rest of the story. My class had just over a 90% attrition rate from day one of prep to end of first phase but the guys pulled aside with anxiety disorders to my knowledge had approximately at 75% attrition rate. Other weird trends that seem odd on the surface like the weakest guys at the bottom of the class doing better when things got really really bad start to make sense though. If you suffered during the easy part but didn’t quit or get cut you the hard stuff isn’t a change since you were already in a suckfest. The guys with disorders managed to be highly functional with those disorders to make it to where they were, and seemed more likely excel the worse things got compared to normal people. There’s sort of a common belief that people who are mentally healthy are more effective but when you look at top athletes it’s obvious that it’s not true and I think to really be the pinnacle of your field you have to broken to be that self destructively driven. It was interesting to note that it seemed like MARSOC and Army SF selection (or most foreign SF) versus BUD/S are selecting a very different group of people when you get past athletic, smart enough to be a competent jack of all trades technician and kinda tough because we had people who got cut in selection or kicked from Army SF and MARSOC excel while all of sometimes very experienced foreign SF and most of prior US SOF guys quit. A prior Pj did really well though. As far as non foreign and non veterans, it was a total crapshoot most of the time. Guys who were mousy and whiney sometimes just suddenly became unstoppable beasts while guys who seemed solid might just crumble. But a lot of drops I’ve kept in touch with, especially the guys who seemed solid until they kinda crumbled when we started doing the crazy poo poo that makes BUD/S what it is did very well in other selections, the dozen or so that I know of that became Navy SARCs or went 18x all graduated. I think the unique thing with BUD/S compared to even most SOF selections is that is chooses people who are self destructive in a very channeled way while not selecting out more antisocial/narcissistic traits as aggressively. I think there’s also a bit of shared trauma bonding. One Army SF/spooky stuff guy I’m family friends with theorized that the training itself might be enough to cause mild PTSD, given how much the teams seem to avoid actually operating near water at all. It’s hard to explain how mentally and emotionally intense some of the gnarly evolutions in BUD/S are, like the stuff that you see in training videos like underwater swims, long runs, ocean swims and obstacles courses were vacations compared to boats and logs. I grew up a surfer, ocean lifeguard and open water swimmer and didn’t even finish hell week but it was enough that I didn’t go to the beach or get in the ocean again for at least a year even though in florida my barracks was literally on the sand. I think there’s something to that theory.
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Aug 30, 2021 19:00
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Crab Dad posted:Today I found out that the church we use to go to (Presbyterian) has a small group of un-schoolers who also happen to be anti-vax and is the main reason we don’t attend anymore. Wow I hadn't known that term either. Some ultra-religious cousins do attend school but their parents' primary focus is football and church groups. When trying to play a simple game with their 18 year old it was slow going as he's nearly illiterate. Still college bound somehow.
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Aug 30, 2021 19:07
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While I can’t remember the name, I know the study about childhood trauma and SEALs is very new, but there’a data I remember I found from some war college master’s thesis that noted that a lot of things that most people assume would be associated with success are totally irrelevant and almost nothing is more than marginally predictive of if someone passes or fails BUD/S.
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Aug 30, 2021 19:08
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Anecdotal- the guys who had a poo poo childhood, or traumatic experiences before service, tended to be incredibly reckless and brave in combat. They also volunteered for every mission, deployment, or dangerous tasking.
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Aug 30, 2021 19:14
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Wow I hadn't known that term either. Some ultra-religious cousins do attend school but their parents' primary focus is football and church groups. When trying to play a simple game with their 18 year old it was slow going as he's nearly illiterate. Still college bound somehow. poo poo like this reminds me that the catholics at least run their schools with math and science classes. For all their faults, catholics maintain a well rounded education, aside from the batshit religion classes and midweek mass during the school day or whatever. The ultra religious in my family are catholic and they still generally took the science routes in college. That doesn't mean there aren't crazy catholics out there, but the baptist types are deranged in comparison.
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Aug 30, 2021 19:16
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Crab Dad posted:They let their kids pick what they want to learn. Ideally (lol) you leave books lying around. This is kind of a neat idea in theory, but it leaves out that the number one reason for having schools in the first place is to socialize kids with people beyond their family and maybe get them to learn their letters and numbers. Unless I've misread the purpose of primary schooling and schools are just really really bad at educating people.
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Aug 30, 2021 19:19
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bulletsponge13 posted:Anecdotal- the guys who had a poo poo childhood, or traumatic experiences before service, tended to be incredibly reckless and brave in combat. They also volunteered for every mission, deployment, or dangerous tasking. What's going on there, they're numbed to fear? Or more anxious to please authority figures / their new "family" no matter what?
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Aug 30, 2021 19:35
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Defenestrategy posted:This is kind of a neat idea in theory, but it leaves out that the number one reason for having schools in the first place is to socialize kids with people beyond their family and maybe get them to learn their letters and numbers. Unless I've misread the purpose of primary schooling and schools are just really really bad at educating people. Public schools are for teaching you the gay agenda and be subservient to immigrants and colored. Which is all ironic for me since we homeschool both our kids but for behavioral issues dealing with mild autism and dyslexia. However my mom in law the instructor has a masters in early child development and taught public school for 20 years.
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Aug 30, 2021 19:35
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Schools are bad at education. School is for socialization and getting kids away from their parents to be exposed to other people and ideas.
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Aug 30, 2021 19:37
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aphid_licker posted:What's going on there, they're numbed to fear? Or more anxious to please authority figures / their new "family" no matter what? In my personal experience it was both. I just also have a lot of quit in me so I looked at a lot of those hardcore schools and said "gently caress that."
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Aug 30, 2021 19:40
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aphid_licker posted:What's going on there, they're numbed to fear? Or more anxious to please authority figures / their new "family" no matter what? I’m one of those people. I fear emotional pain, not physical. It’s way more nuanced than that but basically I’ve been suicidal since I was about 12 and I would rather get hit by a truck than feel abandonment.
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Aug 30, 2021 19:41
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MazelTovCocktail posted:Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha This is a bit of an overreach I think. If she can supply medical documentation supporting this: quote:She was not, she said, explaining that she has had “adverse reactions to vaccines in the past” and that a doctor advised her against getting inoculated against the coronavirus. Then I think it's fair. I mean, I guess in the US you have doctors supporting all kinds of random anti-vax poo poo but in a good faith situation (which apparently was not determined?) this is pretty valid? Like dang, got a shot, developed a blood clot in her leg and now has permanent pain and recurring ulcers but it's ok she got the covid vaccine (that is being suggested as an 8 month booster).
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Aug 30, 2021 19:44
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boop the snoot posted:I’m one of those people. Goddamn dude I didn't need you to do impersonations of me.
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Aug 30, 2021 19:46
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aphid_licker posted:What's going on there, they're numbed to fear? Or more anxious to please authority figures / their new "family" no matter what? Yes. It varied on the individual, but speaking for myself, it didn't matter. I learned as a kid fear is a luxury you can't afford- you particularly can't if someone needs help. Someone always needs help in combat. The idea of a cohesive family helps- a kid will repeatedly run into danger so long as they think someone cares if they get hurt. They don't have to actually care- just as long as the trooper thinks someone will, they will run through hell. I never had a Dad, or any reasonable/stable father figure. My Squad Leader pulled me aside after combat, "I don't know who you were trying to make proud, or what you felt you needed to prove, but I am proud of you" in a tender, fatherly way that had the tone of sadness that he had to put me there. It never stopped him from putting me in ridiculous and stupid positions of danger because I had no worries about the personal outcome. Projecting, but I also have issues with authority and have been blatantly insubordinate in stupid situations. My section (7 guys) was made up of what amounted to gently caress ups, orphans, and Army Urchins- everyone of them from a hosed up and broken home. We walked away with 1 Silver Star, 3 BSMV, 2 ARCOM w/V. In addition to 5 Purple Hearts, just for perspective. E- agree with physical vs emotional pain.
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Aug 30, 2021 19:55
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I’m also a complete junkie at heart (and why I’ll never try heroin — I’ll be dead ASAP) and the adrenaline rush of a firefight was and still is the most intoxicating thing I’ve ever experienced.
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Aug 30, 2021 19:57
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The real kicker of it all is that it makes relationships kinda... tricky. While at the same time nothing, and I truly mean nothing, heals you as much as a loving relationship. And I'm sorry but I don't want to talk about the impact of losing that relationship.
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Aug 30, 2021 20:14
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Defenestrategy posted:This is kind of a neat idea in theory, but it leaves out that the number one reason for having schools in the first place is to socialize kids with people beyond their family and maybe get them to learn their letters and numbers. Unless I've misread the purpose of primary schooling and schools are just really really bad at educating people. Yeah, I know it's drive by parenting but a friend has two kids about 10 & 8 who haven't been in a school in maybe two years now and not sure if that's great for socialization. The younger one seems ok but the older kid is constantly carrying around stuffed animals when he should be too old for that and doesn't spend much time at all with kids his age.
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Aug 30, 2021 20:24
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boop the snoot posted:I’m also a complete junkie at heart (and why I’ll never try heroin — I’ll be dead ASAP) and the adrenaline rush of a firefight was and still is the most intoxicating thing I’ve ever experienced. Same. Last week my house caught fire, and then we got into a fairly serious accident. I told my therapist the accident was the best thing to help me cope- I got that same rush as running through fire, being bait, kicking doors solo, or getting sniped at. I chased the high of a fire fight through major injuries, TBI/Post Concussion Syndrome, PTS, and ruined every relationship I was in- until they wouldn't let me play war no more.
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Aug 30, 2021 20:47
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Yeah, I know it's drive by parenting but a friend has two kids about 10 & 8 who haven't been in a school in maybe two years now and not sure if that's great for socialization. The younger one seems ok but the older kid is constantly carrying around stuffed animals when he should be too old for that and doesn't spend much time at all with kids his age. My 11yr olds do all those things. It’s agonizing but it’s better to keep they home than despondent and anxiety ridden until the learn better coping skills with age.
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Aug 30, 2021 21:08
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https://twitter.com/NaveedAJamali/status/1432428298903113729
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Aug 30, 2021 21:11
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Defenestrategy posted:This is kind of a neat idea in theory, but it leaves out that the number one reason for having schools in the first place is to socialize kids with people beyond their family and maybe get them to learn their letters and numbers. Unless I've misread the purpose of primary schooling and schools are just really really bad at educating people. I know they used to have schools that were based on this kind of thing. (Source: I was selected for the school, but family was poor, so never went) Like you said, in theory, this should be a "good idea". I know I would have likely learned higher math at an earlier age if I was taught (gesturing vaguely) *everything* about whatever topic I was into at the time. In practice, I believe that (unless the children are firmly in the "exceptional" category) this will only prove that Idiocracy was a documentary from the future not a comedy.
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Aug 30, 2021 21:13
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Here's the article I suspect most of us are referencing: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/fort-bragg-murders-1153405/ "I don’t know anything about what it’s like to be in the military, but as an acute care doc I know plenty about the effects of PTSD on drug use. The one thing that struck me the most that I listened to recently was that after 9/11 when the military wanted to dramatically increase the number of SEALS they were passing, they hired an independent contractor to investigate exactly which qualities in a human gave them the best chance of completing BUD/S and being a successful SEAL. They combed through a ton of metrics, from physical fitness, to intelligence, to all sorts of stuff. Really the one thing that stuck out, however, and very strongly correlated with a person succeeding through BUD/S and beyond, was having a high Adverse Childhood Experience (ACE) score. Social work and doctors are quite intimate with how powerful a predictor the ACE score is for predicting future drug use, social fallout, etc. It’s a scoring system that takes into account several types of childhood trauma. But this independent contractor’s findings basically scared the poo poo out of them. Really, the majority of SEALs had extremely high ACE scores. The military is for all intents and purposes, hiring people with high ACE scores, childhood trauma and a predilection for adverse adult outcomes, into a line of work riddled with further traumatic events (and the high likelihood of TBI, compounding the issue immensely), and then really doing very little if anything to support them with mental health resources and therapy after the job is done. Is it any surprise at all, really, that these people end up abusing drugs, etc? It also speaks volumes that the suicide rate among special forces operators is more than 3x higher than nearly any other demographic in the country. It’s all just flabbergasting. I mean, maybe some argument could be made that we need this type of soldier right now; one who’s high ACE scores and childhood trauma allow them to compartmentalize, tolerate extreme trauma, and get a job done that nobody else could do. But gently caress, if we are going to leverage that type of behavior on that type of human we need to have like, deep comprehensive mental health resources lines up for them on the back end so they don’t spiral into oblivion. Anyways that’s my take sorry. That article really shook me." And a study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6294699/ Miloshe fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Aug 30, 2021 |
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Aug 30, 2021 21:24
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https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1432436494757777408 It’s over- all American forces are out of HKIA.
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Aug 30, 2021 21:37
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If we go back technically it’s new war and as long as we are out in less than 20 years it’ll be better
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Aug 30, 2021 21:39
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boop the snoot posted:If we go back technically it’s new war and as long as we are out in less than 20 years it’ll be better Oof.
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Aug 30, 2021 21:42
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boop the snoot posted:If we go back technically it’s new war and as long as we are out in less than 20 years it’ll be better I mean, really, what's another two trillion dollars between friends?
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Aug 30, 2021 21:47
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If I say " we'll do better next time," will a monkey paw curl one of its fingers?
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Aug 30, 2021 21:48
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Crab Dad posted:They let their kids pick what they want to learn. Ideally (lol) you leave books lying around. In reality you watch TV all day smoking and let your feral crotch monsters run around and do whatever. I have a friend who is the opposite of right wing religious who is doing this (I assume?) I assume this because his wife doesn't have a real job and he constantly posts screenshots of Twitter threads from random assholes justifying letting little Wyndsongg or whatever run around all day while mom and dad bury social anxiety in a cloud of weed.
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Aug 30, 2021 21:49
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:I’m a psych major and actually took some half assed notes out of curiosity and tracked how well the guys who got sat down with stuff like anxiety disorders did compared for the “normal people.” I quit late enough that I could at least guess the trend, and hit up a friend who graduated for the rest of the story. My class had just over a 90% attrition rate from day one of prep to end of first phase but the guys pulled aside with anxiety disorders to my knowledge had approximately at 75% attrition rate. It's eerie how much your post, and the subsequent replies, remind me of the central premise of Peter Watts' short story/book A Niche/Starfish. Peter Watts posted:The basic premise of Starfish is that Western civilization is built on the backs of its outcasts. The people who make the actual discoveries -- who invent the microwave ovens, who make the breakthroughs in cancer -- they're the obsessive-compulsives, the ones who are driven to prove themselves to dads who will never accept them because they didn't become a lawyer or whatever. Those people who have healthy, well-balanced lives, who take their weekends off, they never get as far because they're not so driven. It's the people who are totally hosed in the head that make the difference. But these are also the people that we never invite to our parties.
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Aug 30, 2021 21:53
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RE: Seal Talk Is there a reason they (seemingly) recruit so heavily from the civilian world? I have heard SF tends to recruit from ranger batt which makes sense, they have the basics of being infantry drilled into them. Why would you even want people unassociated with the military in a high speed unit?
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Aug 30, 2021 21:53
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As Nero Danced posted:If I say " we'll do better next time," will a monkey paw curl one of its fingers? The next forever war will probably be fought over arable land of which Afghanistan has too little of. Looking forward to our ginning up a reason to invade Brazil because they're #5 on the list of countries with the most arable land and the only one without nukes.
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Aug 30, 2021 21:54
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The next forever war will be in space that’s why we have the space force
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Aug 30, 2021 21:55
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boop the snoot posted:The next forever war will be in space that’s why we have the space force Or perhaps very tall mountains
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Aug 30, 2021 21:57
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boop the snoot posted:If we go back technically it’s new war and as long as we are out in less than 20 years it’ll be better Sounds like it's time for the final operation useless dirt one shirt
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Aug 30, 2021 21:59
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6Jan scumbags apparently not only having law troubles, but lawyer troubles. https://www.rawstory.com/capitol-riot-lawyer/?fbclid=IwAR1Uy3jsr56lr1yTlA48X9udyIJojhnehetmv07V10EHoFE3IZic0SGA_QI quote:A man who has been representing several MAGA rioters during court hearings is not a licensed attorney, federal prosecutors revealed this week.
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Aug 30, 2021 22:01
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This is the loving annoying part about the media and its coverage of science in general. https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/1432446147109425155?s=20 https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/1432447376954839044?s=20
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Aug 30, 2021 22:02
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He's "practicing law upon the land."  Come to think of it, you could probably make a small fortune starting the "Sovereign Citizen Law School." Just be sure to keep a bag packed. >.>
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Aug 30, 2021 22:03
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Wrong Theory posted:RE: Seal Talk I'm just pulling this from my rear end, but if I had to guess I'd say it's so that they don't deplete their existing manpower pool of trained sailors since anyone becoming a SEAL is going to need to learn a whole new skillset anyway.
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Aug 30, 2021 22:05
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loving brain trust over at wapo 
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Aug 30, 2021 22:06
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McNally posted:I'm just pulling this from my rear end, but if I had to guess I'd say it's so that they don't deplete their existing manpower pool of trained sailors since anyone becoming a SEAL is going to need to learn a whole new skillset anyway. The Navy personnel system is a loving mess, too, actually getting orders out of your job code to something else is pretty difficult under the best circumstances. My friend who went to NSW caught a break his year group actually had openings, SEALs are usually pretty locked up for guys in their first four or five years so anyone early in their career is fighting uphill to get a spot. I don't know if the rest of the force is as insular as my community was, but there's a real gently caress you for trying to leave we're going to make it as hard as possible so you give up element as well.
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Aug 30, 2021 22:14
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