|
Congrats!  Don't stress giving notice too much, if your manager is good they'll understand. Like mentioned, just say it's a better opportunity for you right now.
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2021 23:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 22:59 |
|
|
figgie figgie figgie figgie figgie figgie fig
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2021 00:26
|
|
|
Hadlock posted:I don't know anyone senior making less than $180 base, equity is pretty garbage though, pre-ipo companies seem pretty tight fisted with equity these days It's not uncommon. It seems that the mid-end for a senior-level role has centered right around $140k right now for either 5+ years & Ruby on Rails or front-end specialties. This is based on posted compensation $'s, I'm sure non-posted has a wider range. Top end is a lot higher, but international competition is the new regional and is going to keep rates down.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 15:39
|
|
|
kayakyakr posted:international competition is the new regional and is going to keep rates down. I've noticed this as well. My company has the majority of its open recs in Belfast. Which is not the say that they're paying US folks less, just that growth coincidentally is in the place where there's more value for the money you spend on salary.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 15:51
|
|
|
Hadlock posted:I don't know anyone senior making less than $180 base, equity is pretty garbage though, pre-ipo companies seem pretty tight fisted with equity these days A substantial amount of roles, even at bigger companies, come in with a base at or below $180k at the Senior level. Also titles mean very little and even YOE means very little without a ton more context.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 18:25
|
|
|
kayakyakr posted:Top end is a lot higher, but international competition is the new regional and is going to keep rates down. Yeah our team is picking up 2x more bay area head count this year, and then next year 4x "near shore", aka Nevada/Oregon/Mexico/Canada We have a number of contractors in eastern Europe, but causes significant problems with time delays/zones
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 18:43
|
|
|
Is that going to reduce salaries for us middish/seniorish engineers over the next few years as places like Belfast expand?
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 18:46
|
|
|
Probably not a great trend if you just want to write code all day long, but as a local you have the advantage of being in the same building and timezone as internal customers. Career progression will probably involve leading the efforts of an offshore team if it becomes more common.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 18:52
|
|
|
I imagine it will actually increase salaries because companies will use offshore developers for junior/mid/senior-in-Europe-but-your-mid-in-Bay-Area, leading to fewer positions for locals, but the remaining local positions will be for (in their mind) "unicorn" lead developers to manage the offshore teams. So more money, but fewer openings.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 18:56
|
|
|
Yeah as a middling, late to the game developer this is a bit worrisome for me!
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 19:03
|
|
|
Demand for software engineers has, and likely will, continue to increase which has, and again likely will, outweigh any impact from companies off shoring. I would also expect the gap between VHCoL and everywhere else to narrow as remote is now seen as an option. This may result in compensation dropping in the VHCoL areas dependent on overall demand which to my understanding is currently through the roof.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 19:23
|
|
|
People have been doomsaying about outsourcing for at least 20 years now. I'm not convinced that circumstances this time are different enough to warrant being worried.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 19:28
|
|
|
It will mostly pull the ladder up for US-based engineering as the demand for juniors drops. If it somehow takes off this time, it will take a couple decades to really see the impact of something like that on industry as a whole, but it would play like an analog of why there's so little manufacturing in the US nowadays.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 19:29
|
|
|
Unrelated... I have been going through the process with a company that involved the fairly standard: - An initial coding phone screen - Day 2 of meeting with an engineering director then an hour coding exercise with an engineer - Then the next day meeting with the HM, a system design hour, and another coding interview hour After that they said, verbatim, "the team is ready to move forward with an offer at Senior level but we have filled the role you were originally interviewing for before your full loop. A number of other openings blah blah are you interested in these teams?" and made me do an interview with the HM of another team, which went really well. But, they also want me to meet with the tech lead of that team? I have no idea if this will be a team fit interview or another technical interview and it's very frustrating. This mostly sucks cause I have another offer from a company I'm very interested in but feel like I have to see this through and the lack of urgency feels lovely. E: Lol they just said it would be a coding interview. So, cool, three wasn't enough at your company? You're going to make me do a loving fourth, and basically the decision will boil down to a single coding interview now it seems? Good Will Hrunting fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Aug 30, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 19:43
|
|
|
If you'd be happy with the other offer, tell them that you're not doing another coding interview and that they need to make a decision based on what they've already seen.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 19:49
|
|
|
ultrafilter posted:If you'd be happy with the other offer, tell them that you're not doing another coding interview and that they need to make a decision based on what they've already seen. TooMuchAbstraction posted:People have been doomsaying about outsourcing for at least 20 years now. I'm not convinced that circumstances this time are different enough to warrant being worried. agreed to both
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 20:08
|
|
|
I was told my feedback was pretty much unanimously positive, so I emailed the recruiter asking what the motivation is for a singular technical interview that will essentially be the only factor in the decision at this point. She seems like she has absolutely no idea what she's doing, to be completely honest.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 20:12
|
|
|
ultrafilter posted:If you'd be happy with the other offer, tell them that you're not doing another coding interview and that they need to make a decision based on what they've already seen. This, except with no leading "if".
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 20:12
|
|
|
Good Will Hrunting posted:absolutely no idea what she's doing on the one hand, yup sounds like a recruiter on the other hand, sounds like everyone all the time
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 20:15
|
|
|
Yeah, don't take my mention of non-US remote developers as a prediction of the fall of US job openings. The bigger effect may be for companies who are struggling to fill roles looking overseas. The other option is that companies will take a chance on developing younger developers, and that will never happen.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 21:00
|
|
|
i think the only certainty around remote work/off-shorting is that it will be very hard to maintain value just by crushing code. that is not to say that you have to move into management, but you do need to move into the higher level ic work that has certain managerial qualities to it otherwise you could very well end up being replace by someone whose willing to put up with a lot more poo poo and crush a lot more code than you are.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 21:17
|
|
|
they were sayin that during the last offshoring wave too, lol
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 21:31
|
|
|
I reached out to the recruiter asking if the company was on the fence about me or if she could provide any feedback or insight into why I had to do another round. She said all the feedback about me so far was positive, and confirmed it will be "a general coding question and the interviewer likes you to be able to correct any bugs you might make" with some questions around "exception handling, testing, immutability concepts, and RESTful APIs". I expressed my concerns around high variance in a single interview to her and and she said "I know, I'm sorry, I've expressed my concerns to the team but they just want to be extra careful to make sure they get the right person on their team." lmao
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 21:39
|
|
|
Good Will Hrunting posted:I reached out to the recruiter asking if the company was on the fence about me or if she could provide any feedback or insight into why I had to do another round. She said all the feedback about me so far was positive, and confirmed it will be "a general coding question and the interviewer likes you to be able to correct any bugs you might make" with some questions around "exception handling, testing, immutability concepts, and RESTful APIs". I expressed my concerns around high variance in a single interview to her and and she said "I know, I'm sorry, I've expressed my concerns to the team but they just want to be extra careful to make sure they get the right person on their team." At this point I'd say "tell these two teams to go loving talk to each other and then let me know, thanks"
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 21:46
|
|
|
ultrafilter posted:Probably not a great trend if you just want to write code all day long, but as a local you have the advantage of being in the same building and timezone as internal customers. Career progression will probably involve leading the efforts of an offshore team if it becomes more common. I actually chatted with a super early startup with no technical folks who wanted to vaguely automate things. Just to get a sense if I can 'write my own ticket' in life. Needless to say, cold selling to people who may or may not be interested a freelancer/contractor makes the leetcode technical screens seem structured and objective  (Or is the sell really just saying 'I can help with that')
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 22:03
|
|
|
Good Will Hrunting posted:I reached out to the recruiter asking if the company was on the fence about me or if she could provide any feedback or insight into why I had to do another round. She said all the feedback about me so far was positive, and confirmed it will be "a general coding question and the interviewer likes you to be able to correct any bugs you might make" with some questions around "exception handling, testing, immutability concepts, and RESTful APIs". I expressed my concerns around high variance in a single interview to her and and she said "I know, I'm sorry, I've expressed my concerns to the team but they just want to be extra careful to make sure they get the right person on their team." do you want the job (or at least the offer)? then i would say just do it. otherwise, tell them no and that you're going with company X because they didn't waste your time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 22:55
|
|
|
FamDav posted:do you want the job (or at least the offer)? then i would say just do it. otherwise, tell them no and that you're going with company X because they didn't waste your time. The compensation my recruiter proposed was extremely figgies so I'd like to at least finish the process given that I've put 7.5 loving hours into already. That being said, I think this it's a very bad sign as my future would be manager is the one orchestrating this necessity to reinterview candidates (my recruiter said this just happened to another person that ended up on their team).
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 23:24
|
|
|
New Yorp New Yorp posted:At this point I'd say "tell these two teams to go loving talk to each other and then let me know, thanks" 
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2021 23:26
|
|
|
Good Will Hrunting posted:The compensation my recruiter proposed was extremely figgies so I'd like to at least finish the process given that I've put 7.5 loving hours into already. corinthians 6:20
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 01:34
|
|
|
Beyond the fact that it's an annoying waste of time, it's extremely loving ridiculous to put candidates under the immense pressure of a literal single interview deciding if you get an offer or not, pretty much.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 02:02
|
|
|
At least part of it must be a negotiation tactic. Harass the prospective employee to make them feel unworthy, then give them an offer and demand a reply as soon as possible. A lot of people probably decline to negotiate after jumping through that many hoops.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 02:11
|
|
|
thotsky posted:At least part of it must be a negotiation tactic. Harass the prospective employee to make them feel unworthy, then give them an offer and demand a reply as soon as possible. A lot of people probably decline to negotiate after jumping through that many hoops. This requires a lot more caring than they seem to have
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 02:54
|
|
|
thotsky posted:At least part of it must be a negotiation tactic. Harass the prospective employee to make them feel unworthy, then give them an offer and demand a reply as soon as possible. A lot of people probably decline to negotiate after jumping through that many hoops. I haven't spent a ton of time working for big companies but it sounded like just regular-rear end bureaucratic bullshit to me. And/or mutual team mistrust.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 03:05
|
|
|
pokeyman posted:I haven't spent a ton of time working for big companies but it sounded like just regular-rear end bureaucratic bullshit to me. And/or mutual team mistrust. I'd also be prepared for a final offer that's significantly less than what the recruiter has been telling you. I've never once been told the truth by a recruiter about the salary range of a position if I can get them to say any numbers before the actual offer is extended. Anecdotal, but I have very little respect for people in that field as a group.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 05:49
|
|
|
It's in line with Levels.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 05:57
|
|
|
It’s only in line with Levels when it’s written on a contract.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 16:17
|
|
|
How hard do you need to stick to disqualifiers for an offer? I have one offer at $170k which has some solid perks such as paid training, then another for $200k + some performance-based stock grants (real stocks). The higher paying role would be the first on an internal support team with on-call duties and an "unlimited" vacation policy with no mandatory minimum. I'm worried that the higher paying job will stress me out with on-call, uncertain vacation boundaries, and general workplace chaos. On the other hand, I'm also worried that I'll feel stupid in the future for passing up a significant pay increase. There's no losing option because I've come to hate my current job and it pays way less. Many people have worse dilemmas, of course 
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 16:29
|
|
|
rt4 posted:How hard do you need to stick to disqualifiers for an offer? I have one offer at $170k which has some solid perks such as paid training, then another for $200k + some performance-based stock grants (real stocks). The higher paying role would be the first on an internal support team with on-call duties and an "unlimited" vacation policy with no mandatory minimum. I'm worried that the higher paying job will stress me out with on-call, uncertain vacation boundaries, and general workplace chaos. On the other hand, I'm also worried that I'll feel stupid in the future for passing up a significant pay increase. The problem is that you can't anticipate anything. The 170k job could be way more stressful for reasons that you can't possibly know or plan for. Like, maybe the 200k job is chaotic but fun and everyone on the team is great and you really enjoy it. And the 170k job has less chaos but a team that's full of assholes that you hate working with. 30+k is not peanuts; I just got a 40k raise and it's literally thousands of extra dollars per month. I'm assuming you already tried to use the 200k offer as leverage with the 170k offer but if you didn't, then do that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 16:37
|
|
|
unfortunately this isn't a question other people can answer. for you. here are some things to think about: i would not take unlimited oncall+support for 30k. but if those stocks are gonna be half your TC and you're looking at an extra 200k then yeah, i'd run myself into the ground and leave when it sucked too much. and of course it might actually be fine - common wisdom is (correctly) to be wary of unlimited vacation policies, but they're not in-and-of themselves a negative once you account for the "vacation doesn't get paid out when you leave" thing i'd talk to your prospective boss and make it clear that you plan to take N weeks of vacation and ask if that's gonna be a problem. does the role actually sound interesting? i'm not really all about doing support (unless you mean SRE type stuff and running office hours for devs or something), but if you like it that could be good for you. and maybe the other role is support too. first thing to do is to figure out the expected value of your bonus. is it "don't get PIPed and you get 15% of salary" or is it based on company's performance and they can say "lol we only made twenty million this year, nothing for you"? once you've figured that out, figure out how likely it is that the job would suck, and what you can do to mitigate that risk. then you "just" need to figure out if the expected value is worth the risk since you'd be first on the team, you'll want to speak with your prospective boss and their other DRs
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 16:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 22:59 |
|
|
rt4 posted:How hard do you need to stick to disqualifiers for an offer? I have one offer at $170k which has some solid perks such as paid training, then another for $200k + some performance-based stock grants (real stocks). The higher paying role would be the first on an internal support team with on-call duties and an "unlimited" vacation policy with no mandatory minimum. I'm worried that the higher paying job will stress me out with on-call, uncertain vacation boundaries, and general workplace chaos. On the other hand, I'm also worried that I'll feel stupid in the future for passing up a significant pay increase. Personally I'd ask a lot of questions about the unlimited vacation policy, but past a certain point I value time off more than money. I'd at least ask the process for getting vacation approved and how much time off most people actually take. I interviewed at one place with "unlimited" and when I asked how much time people actually take I was told that most people take about 2 weeks like that was a good answer so I knew it wasn't the right spot for me. Same for the oncall support. How often are you oncall? What are the oncall expectations? How often do pages happen? etc I can't say I wouldn't take the job, but I'd ask a lot of questions first
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 16:42
|
|
