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Hellioning posted:Given the game's general theme of 'racism is bad' and the fact that we apparently joined forces with all of the beast tribes at the end of Shadowbringers, I fully expect there to be at least some Garleans who are not tempered and we join forces with. We are gonna team up with Zenos
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Aug 31, 2021 14:55
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Macaluso posted:We are gonna team up with Zenos I'm still trying to decide who's going to be the final boss in Endwalker. It seems plausible from both directions if the final boss of 6.0 is your best friend Zenos, or if Fandaniel is going to Kefka him right before the end. Also I can't not do the Hildebrand thing and just call Fandaniel "Danny" in my mind's eye. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Aug 31, 2021 |
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Aug 31, 2021 16:27
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DeathSandwich posted:I'm still trying to decide who's going to be the final boss in Endwalker. It seems plausible from both directions if the final boss of 6.0 is your best friend Zenos, or if Fandaniel is going to Kefka him right before the end. Yeah, I'm torn on this too. On one hand, Grim Fandaniel can absolutely hold up that back end, and has a lot of mysteries still to reveal. ...but at the same time, 'just fight Zenos again' is exactly the way FFXIV would feint from that. My angle with Onlyfandaniel's name is to just keep giving him different dumb names. At this point I have I think five names in circulation for Fantastic Dan, Airing Sunday Mornings On CBBC. And I've started giving thought to what his given name might be. I've landed on Moros; the deity of impending doom feels perfect for him.
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Aug 31, 2021 17:26
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the last boss is going to be zenos/fandaniel fusion dance while hydaelyn and zodiark have a big gurren lagann ending cosmic-scale clash in the skybox and you have to beat them to get Mom and Dad to stop fighting before they blow up reality again
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Aug 31, 2021 17:47
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DeathSandwich posted:I'm still trying to decide who's going to be the final boss in Endwalker. It seems plausible from both directions if the final boss of 6.0 is your best friend Zenos, or if Fandaniel is going to Kefka him right before the end. Just go all the way and call him "Fanny" imo.
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Aug 31, 2021 17:49
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I think an interesting wrinkle in all this could be the fact that Zodiark was created to prevent the End of Days and destroy all these end-beasts. It could be something like awakening Zodiark to stop Fancy Dan, and then resolving the crystal god rivalry somehow from there. We could even team up with other Ascians who aren't on board with ending the world!
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Aug 31, 2021 18:28
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Begemot posted:I think an interesting wrinkle in all this could be the fact that Zodiark was created to prevent the End of Days and destroy all these end-beasts. It could be something like awakening Zodiark to stop Fancy Dan, and then resolving the crystal god rivalry somehow from there. There could be something to that, given the story of the first in Shadowbringers. The implication with the flood of light in the first was implied to be because the warriors of light were too good at their job and wound up tipping the scales too far in the wrong direction. I could see the story of 6.0 resolving out to "Zodiark and Hydelin need each other to preserve the balance of the cosmos, and when one becomes more powerful than the other then it becomes 'Oops All Apocalypse'". Especially if we have hit a situation where all the remaining sundered Ascians are like Fandaniel and the lack of a higher purpose from Elidibus / Emet / Lahabrea turned them into a literal Death Cult.
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Aug 31, 2021 20:16
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I would not be surprised if in this final conflict we are either on Zodiark's side or at the very least defending Zodiark.
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Aug 31, 2021 20:18
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Just hit Shadowbringers credits for the first time, man, what a game. Was there any indication that the Ancients didn't willingly pay the price to summon Zodiark and restore their world? The way that one shade who sits next to you tells it (and Emet later phrases a similar sentiment when he asks everyone if their world was ending would half of it be willing to die to save the other half), it sounds like the Hydaelyn-summoners were objecting to a voluntary exchange of however many Ancients in that last third were needed to bring back the first two-thirds lost. And in any case their action just ended up killing everyone left. That, and Hydaelyn being a much-like-Zodiark primal, uhhh... Doesn't that mean the original Hydaelyn-summoners were absolutely (or at least a fair bit) in the wrong? Yes I know this isn't a binary, I'm just saying for simplicity's sake. Don't misunderstand, I agree that by this point the whole Ardor plan is a massive bummer costing entire worlds-worth of unwilling deaths, but back then before the sundering and with how seemingly consensus-driven/utilitarian the Ancients seemed to be it paints a really dim picture of the Hydaelyn crew. End results of the whole Zodiark plan would have been 2/3rds+ of population returned and a stabilized planet, end result of the Hydaelyn reaction was 100% of population dead, a handful of utterly mad, grief-stricken wraiths and 13+1 new realms for them to torment. Uhhhhhhhhhhh, I suspect they couldn't have foreseen this, but lol. I doubt that Endwalker will fail to stick the landing narrativly, clearly they have the talent to pull it off, but I'm going to be really bummed if yeah it really is as simple as Zodiark=Bad/Hydaelyn=Good. They've added excellently crunchy texture to the Ascians in Shadowbringers after having them be the flattest of JRPG villains up to this point, and it would be a bummer if that's sanded back down in Endwalker. BTW does anyone remember the ancient Ron Paul's Funeral City, 350000000 Dead tumblr and their posts? Big that energy from the last couple of hours of gameplay before credits landed.
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Sep 1, 2021 00:48
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Team H wanted to stop Team Z because they were going to sacrifice nonwilling, non-ancient life. And the ancients didn't die - they were sundered. Emet's example explicitly shows that the original was just split into multiple.
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Sep 1, 2021 00:58
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KazigluBey posted:Just hit Shadowbringers credits for the first time, man, what a game. No the convocations plan was sacrifice all the new life in the world that popped up that weren't the ancients to bring back the ancients. The first two sacrifices were willing sacrifices on the part of hte ancients and to undo those those that would become ascians wanted to sacrifice the new life to bring back the old and the Hydelyn summoners wanted to let the new life take over and live and let the past be the past.
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Sep 1, 2021 01:00
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If you've only just hit the end of 5.0, keep going, there's a little more on the subject.
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Sep 1, 2021 01:02
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KazigluBey posted:Just hit Shadowbringers credits for the first time, man, what a game. The Post 5.0 quests get into that some. IIRC what happened was that after Zodark saved them from the Ascian Apocalypse, Zodiark kept requiring more and more lives spent to maintain itself and it's protections therein. The core council and those under their tutelage of the ones that summoned him were at this tempered and point beholden to its will, but the non-Zodiarked Ascians were sick of all the death and sacrifice and reached out to something to counter it's influence. Thus did they reach out to Hydaelyn and the conflict is what sundered the worlds and everyones souls save but a scant few. Also the implication with the sundered ascians is that Lahabrea, Elidibus, and Emet Selch, and Nabriles were the only ones who were able to truly piece their souls back together completely after the sundering. The other Ascians, even the ones on the council, were to some degree incomplete and they have less than perfect control over their soul magicks. You'll see some more of that in the Eden raids, where Gaia and Mitron discuss how it takes them a long time to come back after they die because their only partially unsundered soul reincarnates the way everyone else on the planet does and their ascian-ness and memories don't re-form until they reach adulthood esentially. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Sep 1, 2021 |
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Sep 1, 2021 01:03
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A few of your questions get answered by the patches. But to start with: EVERYTHING in Fake Amaurot should be digested with the knowledge that it is essentially Emet-Selch's retelling of the time surrounding the Final Days. That doesn't mean it's a lie or can't be considered in some way an accurate testimony, but it is inherently a biased and incomplete testimony, and even the game itself will caution that there are things it leaves out, either due to ignorance or specific omission.
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Sep 1, 2021 01:04
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Right, but was there any indication that the new life was sentient? My understanding was that the Ancients were the only sentients on the original world (or at least we've seen no indication otherwise), so wouldn't this have been "sacrifice a bit of the biomass, plants+animals+etc..." rather than "sacrifice thinking beings"? As for re: death/sundering it uhh, it seems like an academic distinction really, as far as experiencing it seems to indicate. I have literally no idea what I should and shouldn't be spoilering, btw, lol
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Sep 1, 2021 01:05
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Don't spoil anything. It's the open spoilers thread. We don't know what the exact life was on the planet, but we do know that much of the current human life in Eorzea is not derived from the sundered ancients, and is likely the progeny of the life they were going to sacrifice.
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Sep 1, 2021 01:06
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Hogama posted:If you've only just hit the end of 5.0, keep going, there's a little more on the subject. As the kids would say, And There It Is, OK, gonna drop the thread and dive back in till I'm proper-done with post-5.0 content lol. Should have predicted this lol.
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Sep 1, 2021 01:06
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KazigluBey posted:Right, but was there any indication that the new life was sentient? My understanding was that the Ancients were the only sentients on the original world (or at least we've seen no indication otherwise), so wouldn't this have been "sacrifice a bit of the biomass, plants+animals+etc..." rather than "sacrifice thinking beings"? As for re: death/sundering it uhh, it seems like an academic distinction really, as far as experiencing it seems to indicate. Yes, there is indication, because the new life is US. Emet-Selch uses exactly the same language to refer to both the pre-Sundering new life, and the present-day life when he was Emperor Solus. The 're-summon Zodiark' plan is essentially to kill US to preserve THEM. There should be no spoiler tags here, but you haven't finished the game yet, so we're including them for your sake.
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Sep 1, 2021 01:08
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Evolution works pretty fast on Planet Zodiark, lalafells only speciated into their two tribes within the past few millennia as far as we know.
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Sep 1, 2021 01:11
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Cleretic posted:Yes, there is indication, because the new life is US. Emet-Selch uses exactly the same language to refer to both the pre-Sundering new life, and the present-day life when he was Emperor Solus. Yeah I'll dive out after this, already seen some stuff here I probably should have skipped, but just wanted to ask: How were there non-Ancient sentients on the original world before Hydaelyn? I thought non-Ancient sentients became a thing specifically BECAUSE of the Sundering, so how were they around before Hydaelyn when the original world was still whole?
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Sep 1, 2021 01:14
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The Sundering made basically 13 perfect reflections of the Source (so 14 parallel worlds) at the time of impact, but with 1/14th the aether/soul as they were stretched across all the worlds (the ratio's changed a bit because of the Rejoinings). The Unsundered are the only natives with the complete power of the original, whole world. Any divergences came about in the millennia since - the reason there's more intact Ancient architecture on the First than the Source is because it hadn't had all the Calamities the Source suffered. But you still have most of the races present on both despite historical differences because they were part of the life that was sundered - the Ixal are notably not on the First because they are a post-Sundering Allagan creation. The First also doesn't have the dragons because Midgardsormr came to Hydaelyn from space post-Sundering as well.
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Sep 1, 2021 01:16
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That's never explained, but probably whatever normal natural phenomena you'd like to assign it to would work. Our glimpse of the past is little more than a couple city blocks from one guy's memory. The rest of the world could look like anything, filled with any sort of life and civilization, but in Emet's eyes it was so under him and his people not really worth note. You will get more information about what happened to the sundered ancients though.
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Sep 1, 2021 01:17
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KazigluBey posted:Yeah I'll dive out after this, already seen some stuff here I probably should have skipped, but just wanted to ask: How were there non-Ancient sentients on the original world before Hydaelyn? I thought non-Ancient sentients became a thing specifically BECAUSE of the Sundering, so how were they around before Hydaelyn when the original world was still whole? Nope, we were initially Zodiark's fault, not Hydaelyn's. Non-Ancient sentients cropped up after Zodiark stopped the End of Days, because essentially when Zodiark rewrote the rules of the star, there were a few differences. Hydaelyn splitting the world filled the planets with non-Ancient sentients because of how Hydaelyn works, but they weren't the first ones.
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Sep 1, 2021 01:18
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Mister Olympus posted:Evolution works pretty fast on Planet Zodiark, lalafells only speciated into their two tribes within the past few millennia as far as we know. what, Tonberry and Kobold?
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Sep 1, 2021 01:25
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Cleretic posted:That doesn't mean it's a lie or can't be considered in some way an accurate testimony, but it is inherently a biased and incomplete testimony, and even the game itself will caution that there are things it leaves out, either due to ignorance or specific omission. Yes, for one thing, he ascribes a more high-minded motivation for the Hydaelyn faction than what we later see from said faction themselves.
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Sep 1, 2021 01:38
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FAUXTON posted:what, Tonberry and Kobold? dunesfolk have second eyelids for navigating in sandstorms but lalafell are originally from an archipelago and sailed to eorzea
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Sep 1, 2021 01:38
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FAUXTON posted:what, Tonberry and Kobold? Specifically, Plainsfolk are the original Lalafell that sailed north to and settled in Vylbrand. Their pupils are quite visible.  When they migrated east to the mainland and settled in Thanalan, they developed a glossy layer that protects from glare and dust storms. It's pretty hard to see their pupils.  Tonberries are cursed Lalafell, and Kobolds are an unrelated species entirely. 
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Sep 1, 2021 02:02
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Cleretic posted:Nope, we were initially Zodiark's fault, not Hydaelyn's. Non-Ancient sentients cropped up after Zodiark stopped the End of Days, because essentially when Zodiark rewrote the rules of the star, there were a few differences.
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Sep 1, 2021 03:06
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Algid posted:Right, the timeline given by the DMV conversation was (1) Zodiark was summoned and stopped the end of days with the cost of 1/2 of remaining Ancients (2) Zodiark them revitalized the pretty much dead planet with the cost of 1/2 of remaining Ancients (3) new lifeforms created by Zodiark include catgirls. Which, when you break it down like that... it means the Ascians aren't really respecting Zodiark, either. They summoned it to solve a problem, and then tried to destroy its solution because they didn't like it.
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Sep 1, 2021 03:41
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Here's a question: Did all the Scions just ditch the aetherspecs once Y'shtola could see aether naturally? I don't think they've been used since super early Heavensward.
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Sep 1, 2021 04:18
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Kazy posted:Here's a question: Did all the Scions just ditch the aetherspecs once Y'shtola could see aether naturally? Krile had some attunement because of her Echo, and yeah, Y'shtola and Ryne being able to see it naturally meant they didn't need it too much. Narratively, so much of the game is loosey goosey magic shenannigans that I think they wrote it out largely because otherwise Thancred and Uriangier and the Twins would be walking around with googly eyes all the time
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Sep 1, 2021 05:18
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2 lost their clothes through teleportation accidents, 1 stopped wearing her dead sister's stuff and then stopped being a Scion entirely, 1 died, 1 changed his wardrobe as a "disguise" and never really went back. Also they wouldn't have had it for ShB anyways since they were running around as soul bodies or whatever and left their stuff at home on the Source. Algid fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Sep 1, 2021 |
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Sep 1, 2021 05:22
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Algid posted:2 lost their clothes through teleportation accidents, 1 stopped wearing her dead sister's stuff and then stopped being a Scion entirely, 1 died, 1 changed his wardrobe as a "disguise" and never really went back. The comedy option is that they are wearing it. You just can't see it because of armor glamours.
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Sep 1, 2021 05:28
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It's just in their pockets.
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Sep 1, 2021 05:35
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It's in their armor chest
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Sep 1, 2021 07:45
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I have a question about Ascians, specifically Sundered Ascians: How are they 'made'? As understand it, basically the unsundered Ascians would gather up what they could find of the Sundered Ascians soul, then find someone on one of the shards that carried a bit of the soul of that Ascian, then they would 'ascend' them into becoming that Ascian. Is that the right of it, or am I missing or misunderstanding something? I have a bit of a theory regarding Fandaniel regarding that, but I want to check if I am right in my assumptions. Unlucky7 fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Sep 1, 2021 |
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Sep 1, 2021 08:32
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Unlucky7 posted:I have a question about Ascians, specifically Sundered Ascians: How are they 'made'? As understand it, basically the unsundered Ascians would gather up what they could find of the Sundered Ascians soul, then find someone on one of the shards that carried a bit of the soul of that Ascian, then they would 'ascend' them into becoming that Ascian. Is that the right of it, or am I missing or misunderstanding something. The Kingdom Hearts council of like, Mitron and Loghrif and Nabriales and all the other red mask dudes get uplifted when one of the Unsundered uses one of the Convocation stones you learned about in Amaurot on a piece of their soul from one of the shards. The black mask guys who were just Regular Joes in the before times get uplifted in a way that we haven't really seen on camera, but I personally assume any of the red mask folks can just do it via some magic to make a crew of jobbers, since Elidibus does it all over the First to create Bad Guys for his new Warriors of Light to fight and boost his power level. And the mark of being a sundered ancient is having the Echo in some form so not everyone is a shattered piece of Mask Frank, receptionist at Akademia Anyder.
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Sep 1, 2021 08:41
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Unlucky7 posted:I have a question about Ascians, specifically Sundered Ascians: How are they 'made'? As understand it, basically the unsundered Ascians would gather up what they could find of the Sundered Ascians soul, then find someone on one of the shards that carried a bit of the soul of that Ascian, then they would 'ascend' them into becoming that Ascian. Is that the right of it, or am I missing or misunderstanding something. First, they made the soul crystals that we pucked up in Etched in the Stars (and then gave to Elidibus, who entered the Crystal Tower with them). They contain the Unsundered's memories of the rest of the Convocation, which is enough to awaken the latent memories of Amaurot for that sundered soul. Then they track down the Sundered soul amd give them that crystal for a time, forcing those memories to reawaken. Fandaniel's crystal is the first one in that quest; the crystal looks fine, but the speech we hear inside it is weirdly fragmented unlike any others. So they hosed up somehow in making his.
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Sep 1, 2021 08:41
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Unlucky7 posted:I have a question about Ascians, specifically Sundered Ascians: How are they 'made'? As understand it, basically the unsundered Ascians would gather up what they could find of the Sundered Ascians soul, then find someone on one of the shards that carried a bit of the soul of that Ascian, then they would 'ascend' them into becoming that Ascian. Is that the right of it, or am I missing or misunderstanding something? Boss-grade mob: Some jackass who had part of the soul of an actual Ancient Elite-boss grade mob: Ditto, but one of the guys who summoned Zodiark (these people include most of the Ascians we have encountered) Super-Villain grade world boss: Elidibus, Lahabread, Emet-Selch It doesn't seem completely clear how much of the 'original person' is actually there to get reawakened and how much of it is a monster zap from a soul crystal of one of the original council. I suspect this may get explored some with Fanny and co. Fun thought while I was organizing that: Ryne and Gaia can absolutely pop in and help us out (though I suspect they won't, as Gaia is optional content... for now)
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Sep 1, 2021 09:14
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Wacky Delly posted:Just go all the way and call him "Fanny" imo. does this mean when he eventually reveals to have a team of 5 warriors of the moonlight, we can call them the Fanny Pack?
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