|
Please stop making me miss this game and all of its mechanics that make it unique vs the new bad MMOs.
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 20:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 22:51 |
|
|
Ort posted:Please stop making me miss this game and all of its mechanics that make it unique vs the new bad MMOs. Re-sub already 
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 22:36
|
|
|
The cool thing about the LB quests too is that they are only ever completed once. And since it’s kind of unusual to ever have an alt, doing it in 2004 or whenever meant never doing it again. As a consequence it’s very much a rite of passage or whatever you want to call it, because you absolutely have to clear it to move ahead and everyone “above” you already has. The closest thing in other MMOs is probably just getting to level cap?
|
|
#
?
Aug 31, 2021 22:40
|
|
|
One last thing to mention about aggro is that even if a monster /checks as Too Weak, they will still aggro if you are sitting down to /heal. I don't remember if the /sit emote aggros too, but it wouldn't surprise me cause FFXI.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 00:18
|
|
|
yergacheffe posted:One last thing to mention about aggro is that even if a monster /checks as Too Weak, they will still aggro if you are sitting down to /heal. I don't remember if the /sit emote aggros too, but it wouldn't surprise me cause FFXI. Ah yeah I forgot to me toon that! And yes, /sit does cause aggro. I'm not sure if sitting in a chair does or not since it's a relatively recent addition.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 00:52
|
|
|
CodfishCartographer posted:Ah yeah I forgot to me toon that! And yes, /sit does cause aggro. I'm not sure if sitting in a chair does or not since it's a relatively recent addition. No context necessary here, I loving love videogames
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 00:54
|
|
|
CodfishCartographer posted:Yeah it's definitely one of the more obtuse mechanics. Here's a short aggro guide for new players in the thread: Reading just how long it takes to explain the aggro system in FFXI made me realize that knowledge of individual subsystems of this game take up more space in my brain than the entirety of my college education
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 00:58
|
|
|
One of my favorite dumb-hosed-up things about this game is if you stay dead in certain Wings of the Goddess areas for long enough, gnat mobs will spawn and camp your body to mess up anyone who passes by. They invented "aggros dying".
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 01:04
|
|
|
Oh gently caress I forgot to mention that solid objects will block ALL aggro, but not open able doors. So if you're standing within spitting distance of a mob, but there's a thin wall on the other side, it will never aggro even if you're low on hp and spamming magic while resting or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 01:11
|
|
|
Haven't played a ton since I last posted though I am enjoying myself so far. I'm level 6 and I saw that I can get Blind and Poison, but they're only available if my nation finishes second or whatever after a Conquest update. I have no idea what that means but the spell vendor in San d'Oria does not have either spell. I kinda liked the "hand out fliers" quest she gave me. I thought the way they clued you in on which NPCs to give the fliers to was clever. No XP and 440 gil as a reward but welp, old school MMO.
FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Sep 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 01:26
|
|
|
FrostyPox posted:Haven't played a ton since I last posted though I am enjoying myself so far. I'm level 6 and I saw that I can get Blind and Poison, but they're only available if my nation finishes second or whatever after a Conquest update. I have no idea what that means but the spell vendor in San d'Oria does not have either spell. I kinda liked the "hand out fliers" quest she gave me. I thought the way they clued you in on which NPCs to give the fliers to was clever. No XP and 440 gil as a reward but welp, old school MMO. You can check the auction house to see if they have any scrolls, otherwise you'll need to wait or visit another nation. As for conquest: there's a system in all areas from the original release and first two expansions called Conquest. Whenever a player kills an enemy in an area, they earn influence for their nation in that area's region - each region contains usually 3-5 areas. If a player dies in an area, then beast men influence goes up in that region. Every Sunday conquest gets tallied, and regions change ownership to whichever nation (or beast men) has the highest influence in that region. The three nations are then placed 1st 2nd and 3rd based on how many regions they control. This was more important when players had to party in these areas for experience, as there were various benefits to having your nation control a region. Now it's mostly vestigial.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 01:39
|
|
|
CodfishCartographer posted:Oh gently caress I forgot to mention that solid objects will block ALL aggro, but not open able doors. So if you're standing within spitting distance of a mob, but there's a thin wall on the other side, it will never aggro even if you're low on hp and spamming magic while resting or whatever. Is that because doors are entity objects?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 01:44
|
|
|
kirbysuperstar posted:Is that because doors are entity objects? Probably? I assume the code only checks level geometry, and doors / movable objects tend to be props that don't count. Fun quirk about solid objects blocking aggro - while it does block magic aggro, it does NOT block magic aggro from true sight / sound enemies that also aggro magic, such as Soulflayers.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 02:22
|
|
|
CodfishCartographer posted:As for conquest: there's a system in all areas from the original release and first two expansions called Conquest. Whenever a player kills an enemy in an area, they earn influence for their nation in that area's region - each region contains usually 3-5 areas. ...Whenever a player kills an enemy in an area, with the Signet buff on, they earn influence for their nation in that area's region. So if you don't get Signet from the gate guards (which you should btw because you get some tiny bonuses - although really it's just bonus acc/eva against a lower-level-than-you monster you're engaged with) you don't help conquest at all. This system mattered in 2004! You could unlock regional teleports to outposts based entirely on who controlled them and keep those teleports forever! I have the coveted "teleport right outside Bastok" from one week when Windurst controlled Gustaberg back in 2005. I have not used it more than once since coming back last year because why would you when HP teleports exist? But now it doesn't matter, except to randomly screw you out of stuff like that. Get to 20, go to another nation via airship, and buy it there - you don't have to be a citizen of the nation in question! Just make sure they're not in last place (Conquest is under uh, Regional Status or something, bottom of the first half of the main menu, it's a giant map)
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 17:19
|
|
|
Getting the sandoria and windurst outposts in back to back weeks was one of the highlights of my life considering bastok was always in third every week
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 20:25
|
|
|
They don't call 'em Lastok for nuthin'!! *cue audience laughter*
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2021 21:56
|
|
|
As I feared, everything on the auction house is a bit too expensive for a complete green newbie. No big deal, spamming water works just fine, I'll be OK until I can get the scrolls I need from a vendor.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 01:11
|
|
|
You can make a shitload of money by buying, I think, Acheron shields and then just vendoring them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 01:25
|
|
|
jokes posted:You can make a shitload of money by buying, I think, Acheron shields and then just vendoring them. Yeah, buy them with Sparks of Eminence. I wrote a guide aimed towards players new to the endgame, so it's not fully relevant to you yet, but it does include a section on how to earn gil as a new player, some of which are available to you even at a low level: https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Endgame_Progression_Guide#How_to_Earn_Gil_as_a_New_Player
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 01:48
|
|
|
I'll take a look, thanks! I totally forgot that Records of Eminence were a thing, I used them when I tried the game a couple years ago and they were really cool. I've just been grinding mobs and doing the quests/missions/whatever from the dude at the San d'Oria gate. EDIT: Oh hell yeah, got a Scroll of Blind from a mob just now FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Sep 2, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 01:54
|
|
|
FrostyPox posted:I'll take a look, thanks! I totally forgot that Records of Eminence were a thing, I used them when I tried the game a couple years ago and they were really cool. I've just been grinding mobs and doing the quests/missions/whatever from the dude at the San d'Oria gate. Man I forgot about the early game excitement of "oh man that monster dropped a spell I can use" I always thought it was cool that spells were attached to the economy, especially since many of the overpriced spells were rarely essential. It made it seem like everyone had their own personal spellbook- a red mage that set money aside for phalanx became a pretty good sata partner for a good while after they learned it. There wasn't really an expectation that red mages have phalanx because it was costly, but someone having it made them seem like they were a more wisened and well-studied mage or something. It was a neat bit of implied roleplay when someone had a rare spell/distinctive piece of gear or an unconventional build. I always liked the story of the early days galka whm who had a ton of gil to throw around so he always ran as a WHM/NIN bashing in skulls. As much as I've been enjoying ffxiv, I couldn't really tell you a single thing about the characters I'm partying with because there's not much distinguishing one character from another if they're the same class.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 02:41
|
|
|
Back in the day it did suck if you were a WHM that couldn't afford Erase, or a RDM that couldn't afford Refresh, etc. that kind of forced you to stop leveling at the point to get the necessary spells otherwise parties didn't want you. Me and a buddy of mine would duo the 3-man BCNM Royal Jelly as DRG/WHM + DRG/BLU in the hopes of getting Utsu:Ni which was selling for like 1 Million gil at the time. Making money in this game used to suck.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 15:10
|
|
|
WarMECH posted:Back in the day it did suck if you were a WHM that couldn't afford Erase, or a RDM that couldn't afford Refresh, etc. that kind of forced you to stop leveling at the point to get the necessary spells otherwise parties didn't want you. Me and a buddy of mine would duo the 3-man BCNM Royal Jelly as DRG/WHM + DRG/BLU in the hopes of getting Utsu:Ni which was selling for like 1 Million gil at the time. Making money in this game used to suck. Weird, erase and refresh were dirt cheap on my server back in the day. Utsusemi Ni being super expensive was definitely universal though, that kind of sucked This is the reason I don't play on period accurate private servers, though. Instead of considering that it would probably be better for the health of the server to charge something affordable for essentials like refresh, the prices are all gouged to poo poo by server veterans so good luck playing your first class past 40 without connections pretty soft girl fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Sep 2, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 15:16
|
|
|
My memory may be foggy on this but I thought Erase was going for like 100k on my server (Diabolos) at the time I needed it and had to stop leveling to farm up some gil to continue. That was a lot of money at the time for me. Granted it wasn't absolutely necessary to continue but I kind of prided myself on having up to date gear/spells both to make my life as a healer easier and actually wanting to do a good job.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 15:22
|
|
|
WarMECH posted:My memory may be foggy on this but I thought Erase was going for like 100k on my server (Diabolos) at the time I needed it and had to stop leveling to farm up some gil to continue. That was a lot of money at the time for me. Granted it wasn't absolutely necessary to continue but I kind of prided myself on having up to date gear/spells both to make my life as a healer easier and actually wanting to do a good job. On the other hand, that stuff was unique and cool back then - stuff besides leveling straight to endgame. Farming gil for a spell, riding to a far away camp spot the first time. I bet you remember doing that more than you remember your xp party or what you did at max level. I know I do.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 15:36
|
|
|
WarMECH posted:My memory may be foggy on this but I thought Erase was going for like 100k on my server (Diabolos) at the time I needed it and had to stop leveling to farm up some gil to continue. That was a lot of money at the time for me. Granted it wasn't absolutely necessary to continue but I kind of prided myself on having up to date gear/spells both to make my life as a healer easier and actually wanting to do a good job. Same here, I played an elvaan rdm which were the butt of all the jokes at the time. When I hit 50ish I ended up spending almost an entire summer grinding up gil to afford the very expensive RSE INT/MP belt so I could make up the difference and have my casting be on par with a hume. All things considered, I probably could've blown through to 75 without top tier gear because people just wanted a refresh/haste bot, but I really liked being able to play all aspects of the job. Off tank SATA partner, double magic bursts, occasional skill chain opener, debuffer, healer- I had gear for whatever a party wanted me to do. Mid level RDM before people figured out how to optimize play was easily one of the most fun classes I've ever played in an MMO.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 15:38
|
|
|
Ort posted:On the other hand, that stuff was unique and cool back then - stuff besides leveling straight to endgame. Farming gil for a spell, riding to a far away camp spot the first time. I bet you remember doing that more than you remember your xp party or what you did at max level. I know I do. I really have been trying to figure out why other MMOs haven't done anything for me and why FFXI is so unique. FFXI is a slow paced game so chatting is something you did during downtime in parties. The game camera was focused such that you felt close to party members and monsters. The mid levels were brutally difficult to get through and also had a lot of meaningful content to accomplish, so there were diversions and other stuff to do to not get burnt out on just grinding. For a lot of classes, just getting your artifact gear was a huge accomplishment and carried some prestige. Every new destination was almost guaranteed to be perilous and everyone you knew definitely needed help with something that would take you somewhere you otherwise had no reason to be. I'm having fun with FFXIV but I gotta say, it barely registers to me what enemies I'm fighting, what my allies look like, what my party members are doing, and I don't have any reason to talk to anyone. Even if I wanted to, I'm constantly pressing buttons so there's no bandwidth to type messages mid fight. It bums me out a little bit that the customization I would have killed for in the FFXI days is kind of wasted because my camera needs to be pulled back and the battlefield is so frantic that there's no connection to other players. I got my duelist set for my RDM last week but it didn't really feel like an accomplishment, it was just a function of how long I played the game for. 14 is really just a pipeline theme park ride from 50 to 80 and when I finish the final MSQ I doubt I'll have any reason to keep playing because endgame content in mmos isn't appealing to me these days.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 15:52
|
|
|
I am with you, I mostly play older MMOs now. FFXI was the longest I played one game almost exclusively (6 months) since maybe WoW during mists of pandaria. There’s so much to learn, always a long list of different things I could be doing to progress, and the setting and world are very cool. Dungeons and Dragons Online is the only other MMO I can say I’ve really enjoyed quite a bit out of the handful I’ve tried the last couple of years for similar reasons - lots to learn/read about, a lot of different ways to play that feel rewarding, quests are unique and force you to think, etc.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 15:58
|
|
|
Ort posted:I am with you, I mostly play older MMOs now. FFXI was the longest I played one game almost exclusively (6 months) since maybe WoW during mists of pandaria. There’s so much to learn, always a long list of different things I could be doing to progress, and the setting and world are very cool. I tried DDO a few times and bounced off of it due to real life commitments, but it's definitely the closest I've gotten to hitting that XI vibe than any other game
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 16:23
|
|
|
Ort posted:Please stop making me miss this game and all of its mechanics that make it unique vs the new bad MMOs. I love FFXIV, but sometimes I miss the early 2000's wonkiness of FFXI and having to put thought into gear beyond what has the biggest item level. If Squeenix offered some sort of package subscription deal (like, get free access or pay a couple extra bucks to play FFXI if you're subscribed to FFXIV) then I'd gladly gently caress around with it again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 18:33
|
|
|
DizzyBum posted:I love FFXIV, but sometimes I miss the early 2000's wonkiness of FFXI and having to put thought into gear beyond what has the biggest item level. If Squeenix offered some sort of package subscription deal (like, get free access or pay a couple extra bucks to play FFXI if you're subscribed to FFXIV) then I'd gladly gently caress around with it again. I remember the first time I saw a high level red mage with a joyeuse, it blew my mind how much she was attacking and I desperately wanted to get one of my own when I hit 70. When I realized gear was just a means to an iLvl in XIV I began to really miss the variety of non-essential items that could drastically change what your character was capable of in FFXI. Even simple stuff, like a white mage strapping on a maul made them pretty good strikers for less difficult content in a pinch. During 75 cap wasn't there a pretty difficult to obtain long bow that red mages could equip, when their usual access was to short bows so people usually ignored their archery skill? I thought it was so cool that if someone got their hands on that, RDM/RNG became something you could reasonably screw around with, especially if you were able to combine it with a kraken club.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 19:06
|
|
|
Hilariously, Kraken Club is STILL relevant at the endgame and is situationally best in slot offhand weapon for Red Mages. They still sell for hundreds of millions of gil!
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2021 19:12
|
|
|
The games are definitely very different styles of gameplay, particularly when it comes down to How Not To Die. 11 is more about prep: getting gear in advance (and situational gear at that), arranging a party that can handle various unexpected BS, and then to a pretty hefty extent you're at the whim of the AI's random choice of spell or TP move, and have to fix yourself up after whatever bad thing just happened. You're very heavily reliant on your prep (gear in particular): mechanically preventing having something bad happen to you isn't often a direct option with 11's lack of telegraphs, so it's more about things like evasion/magic evasion to avoid attacks/statuses more often, or magic accuracy to keep enemies crowd-controlled more consistently, or sometimes just having enough passive -Damage Taken. 14 is more about movement: gear is (intentionally) trivialized, non-impactful, and very easy to catch up with, and every player of the same job has the same toolkit (unless they've been slacking on their class quest unlocks or they're a blue mage). But the fight mechanics are both more demanding of specific preventative reactions (primarily in the form of movement/positioning and Not Getting Hit), and more visually transparent/consistent what you're supposed to do with a given mechanic even if you haven't seen it before. Since Not Getting Hit is an extremely viable option, there's also a bigger penalty when you do get hit in later content: one-shotting you in the more severe cases, but more commonplace is to give you a debuff reducing the damage you deal, or especially give you a (stacking) vulnerability debuff making you take more damage from everything else. On a related note, neither game fares very well - after the nice forgiving early levels in either case - if you approach it with a mindset of the other one. A long-standing 11 player will not fare well in 14, if they assume that they can just stand in mechanics and recover afterwards, and that dodging is very optional. Similarly a long-standing 14 player will not fare well in 11, if they assume that if they can enter content they can readily expect to complete it, and that gearing is very optional.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2021 18:53
|
|
|
I think I said this in the general MMO chat thread, but as much as I love the relatively straightforward design of modern MMOs and the fact that they are a lot less RNG dependent and time consuming, I do kind of miss some of the janky rear end old school stuff, like weird hybrid classes, dedicated CC, Buffer, and/or Debuffer classes, and little things like having to find spell scrolls out in the wild. Not sure I'd want to fully throw myself into such a game as like my main MMO time waster these days, but I do have dumb nostalgia for it. And on that note I'm leaning pretty strongly toward going BLU or PUP FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Sep 4, 2021 |
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 00:53
|
|
|
BLU is incredible. The fact you can slot spells to unlock Job Traits is insane.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 01:31
|
|
|
I came back to XI specifically to try BLU and had an absolute ball! ...then ended up full-time RDM because you had just as many tricks, except you did them better. Crocea Mors is one hell of a weapon and makes your enspells hit like a truck and you can land enfeebles on anything, including stuff immune to your goddamn enfeebles (thanks, immunobreak mechanic), so uh, your mileage may vary.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 01:38
|
|
|
FrostyPox posted:I think I said this in the general MMO chat thread, but as much as I love the relatively straightforward design of modern MMOs and the fact that they are a lot less RNG dependent and time consuming, I do kind of miss some of the janky rear end old school stuff, like weird hybrid classes, dedicated CC, Buffer, and/or Debuffer classes, and little things like having to find spell scrolls out in the wild. The weird hybrid classes that the designers just decided the players would have to figure out how to play correctly were my favorite aspect of the old school MMO Ninja... it's a physical damage dealer, right? They get dual wield and katanas have spots all over the skill chain chart. But wait, they also have these elemental spells, so I guess they can do magic damage and weaken an enemy to an element for the black mage to have better accuracy? That works too, once you get the Ni elemental spells and sub something with MAB. Speaking of which, they also have these debuff spells, it's not the full suite of them like red mage, but if there's a whm or a blm in the party they can easily cover all of the bases and some of their debuffs are actually more potent than rdms. But hold on, if you have a boatload of cash to throw around, those shurikens have insane damage so maybe they're a ranged damage dealer. They have this weird range of samurai uchigatana they can equip too, does that mean anything? Probably not but let's throw it on the pile. Somehow, among this mess of a class that can focus on any one of these things depending on subjob and how much money they were willing to chuck at it, players figured out that it was actually a tank and all that other stuff was secondary as far as most players were concerned
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 01:53
|
|
|
DACK FAYDEN posted:I came back to XI specifically to try BLU and had an absolute ball! Wait are enspells relevant these days gently caress I might have to dust off my account, I was so enamored with the idea of being a spellblade when I bought enthunder and was so disappointed that at end game enspells weren't really doing much outside of solo play
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 01:55
|
|
|
pretty soft girl posted:Wait are enspells relevant these days Yes, RDMs can do a huge amount of damage via enspells now. Specifically the monster damage comes from their job ability "Composure" which triples the amount of damage that enspells do and a weapon called Crocea Mors which can be augmented to have the effect of +500% to enspells. Now you can't just waltz into amazing enspell damage (Crocea Mors is very expensive + a Superior 5 weapon so you have to master RDM to even wield it), but it is a way to do legitimately competitive DPS, especially considering it comes from... RDM of all jobs. Crocea Mors also doubles the damage that elemental weapon skills do, so RDM can pull off some sick Red Lotus Blades or Seraph Strikes (Crocea Mors' augment works in the off-hand).
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 06:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 22:51 |
|
|
Systematic System posted:so RDM can pull off some sick Red Lotus Blades or Seraph Strikes This keeps getting weirder and weirder
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2021 11:32
|
|