quote:

As editor, Roy Thomas was game for Shang-Chi but imposed mandates. One was Shang-Chi’s half-white racial identity, but no one is sure who ordered it and why. To Englehart’s view, Shang-Chi’s half-white identity was due to the bankability, or lack thereof, of Asian leads. Incidentally, this is why ABC didn’t cast Bruce Lee in Kung Fu.

“Marvel insisted [Shang-Chi] be half-white,” Englehart tells Inverse. “We wanted to do an all-Asian character. We didn’t want him half-white, but we had to get the deal done.” He says a previous addition to the Marvel Universe, Black hero Luke Cage, caused cold feet. “I was writing Luke Cage and there were parts of the south that would not carry Luke Cage.”

Roy Thomas isn’t sure where it came from. “I don’t recall if that was my decision based on what I thought Stan would want, or if that is what [Stan] wanted,” he says. “We always considered Shang-Chi Asian. Shang-Chi is an ‘Asian hero’ as Barack Obama was a Black President.”

Starlin doesn’t dispute any of this but adds there was a technical reason. “Faces were not my strongest suit,” he says. “[Stan Lee] didn’t like any of the Asian faces I [drew]. That’s how we ended up with Shang-Chi being half-white.” In a self-deprecating tone, he says his drawings “were more offensive than anything.”

Another mandate came directly from Roy Thomas: the inclusion of Fu Manchu, the pulp villain created by Sax Rohmer in 1913. Though he’d be outdated by the end of the century, Fu Manchu still had clout via movies starring Christopher Lee. Englehart says Fu Manchu became Shang-Chi’s evil father to ensure sales for a comic of an unknown genre.

“[Marvel] said there is nothing interesting about kung fu, so we needed a recognized Chinese villain,” he recalls. Englehart and Starlin weren’t thrilled.

“Fu Manchu is problematic,” Englehart says, “He was problematic then and he’s problematic now. But that’s what we did in order to get the book out. Around the second issue, kung fu exploded as a cultural phenomenon.”

From Thomas’ perspective, Fu Manchu was payback for Carmine Infantino at DC. “I decided it would be fun to scoop Fu Manchu from Carmine, so he couldn't do a Fu Manchu comic even if he wanted to,” he says. Marvel obtained the rights from Fu Manchu’s copyright owners for $100-$200 per issue.

Thomas also deflects criticisms of Fu Manchu’s inclusion. “Fu Manchu’s stories had some racist elements,” he says, but “I disagree strongly with folks who think having Fu Manchu makes us offenders. Any racism would be in handling the characters, not in characters themselves.”

A few complaints were sent to Marvel; Thomas “ignored them.”

“I knew our intent,” he says. In hindsight, however, “I’d probably have pushed Steve and Jim to make [Marvel villain] Yellow Claw the father, or make up a new character. I had no vested interest in Fu Manchu. Really, it was just a joke.”

Jim Starlin has a more blunt take on Fu Manchu and his novels: “These are the most racist pieces of poo poo I’ve ever seen.”

Some Guy TT posted:

fake edit the distinctly half white face of shang chi would be a good thread title assuming the mods ever even click here

i say swears online posted:

self-report your post with the request, that's the secret trick

quote:

For a long time, only aficionados knew Shang-Chi. He made sporadic appearances in other comics; he trained Spider-Man and briefly joined the Avengers in 2013. But for most people, Shang-Chi was more than obscure. Englehart, Starlin, and Thomas tell Inverse they never heard from Asian readers about Shang-Chi. Asian Americans who spoke to Inverse say they never heard of Shang-Chi. If they did, they were repelled by his stereotypical elements, the repulsive Fu Manchu most of all. Only one said he was a fan.

“I never heard of Shang-Chi before I was called by Marvel,” says Shang-Chi screenwriter Dave Callaham, himself half-Chinese. “I am a huge Marvel fan. I walked in [to a meeting] not knowing what to expect.” Callaham was expecting to pitch for Amadeus Cho, the Korean-American Hulk. “Jonathan Schwartz, our producer, said, ‘The character’s name is Shang-Chi, and he is the master of kung fu.’ I said, ‘Oh no.’”

Atrocious Joe posted:

even the screenwriter wanted nothing to do with the movie

Doctor Jeep posted:

lol this is literally the movie nobody except the execs wanted to make

Atrocious Joe posted:

even the screenwriter wanted nothing to do with the movie

Judge Dredd Scott posted:

its incredible how they managed to make every single marvel movie release a culture war thing, insanely effective marketing

Farm Frenzy posted:

the ultimate perfect cap to the story would be if it got banned in china somehow

Bro Dad posted:

Dreylad posted:

if you want to get more conspiratorial (but I totally believe it) pay some interns/influencers to go on social media to get mad about the movie to drive engagement over defending it or attacking it

Bro Dad posted:

eternals looks like dogshit too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_me3xsvDgk

Dreylad posted:

i think disney stumbled into it with the last jedi, or maybe earlier than that, realized that they could feed their young actors with basically no clout or recourse to whichever side hated the movie, then flipped flopped on which movie would appeal to whom and if you want to get more conspiratorial (but I totally believe it) pay some interns/influencers to go on social media to get mad about the movie to drive engagement over defending it or attacking it

once you hit critical mass then you've got nerds on youtube releasing 8 hour videos on your two hour movie and they'll eat up the next bit of content that seems to be you giving into their consumer demands

Horizon Burning posted:

mad max fury road was the first time i remember it appearing but i think that was legitimate because it was so minor and everyone just kind of thought it was a joke (also, fury road was a good movie.) last jedi and captain marvel edit: Avengers: Endgame were really obvious attempts at using culture war bullshit to drive engagement. remember those 'defeminized' torrents that showed up out of nowhere, with no one taking responsibility, like a week after the films came out? very obviously a disney inside job.

The United States posted:

1) While many marketing strategies thrive on controversy and "engagement" is just a manifestation of it, given how well Star Wars worked out for them (or didn't) I'm not sure they were behind that, even with execs being stupid as hell.

Horizon Burning posted:

there's a difference between the little white cuck ball stuff which is just part and parcel of weird 4chan white supremacy poo poo, and the mysterious defeminized torrents of two contentious films that sprung up out ex nihilo, had dozens of think pieces written on them, and the release notes can't even get character names right like it's parodying someone instead of being by one of those someones. there wasn't any after endgame because even then people thought that the second 'chauvinist cut' was satire or parody. which seems to be an odd reason to stop doing that sorta thing if you actually thought that you had to 'defeminize' big-name movies, and weren't doing it as some kind of gambit to stoke the fires of idiots on the internet. "It's not working, people aren't buying it, they think it's a joke."

Atrocious Joe posted:

https://twitter.com/capybaroness/status/1432347579501760530?s=20

i say swears online posted:

oh no this youtube spoils the very best moment of the movie so if you're gonna watch it don't click

i say swears online posted:

self-report your post with the request, that's the secret trick

Bro Dad posted:

eternals looks like dogshit too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_me3xsvDgk

mandatory lesbian posted:

So the eternals are some kind of gods right? Why is this thumbnail 4 bored people standing in a desert

Horizon Burning posted:

mad max fury road was the first time i remember it appearing but i think that was legitimate because it was so minor and everyone just kind of thought it was a joke (also, fury road was a good movie.) last jedi and captain marvel edit: Avengers: Endgame were really obvious attempts at using culture war bullshit to drive engagement. remember those 'defeminized' torrents that showed up out of nowhere, with no one taking responsibility, like a week after the films came out? very obviously a disney inside job.

mandatory lesbian posted:

So the eternals are some kind of gods right? Why is this thumbnail 4 bored people standing in a desert

The United States posted:

Yep there sure is, the outrage machine has been cranking for a week

The United States posted:

Yep there sure is, the outrage machine has been cranking for a week