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Blistex posted:My bet is that your roof sucks to do in some manner, and the roofers are going to easier jobs. Is it a 12/12? Lots of ridges/valleys/dormers? High, up? Shingles? Tile? Metal? Shakes? Traditional Japanese thatch? Haunted? Geriatric naturalist neighbors? Oh yeah that’s absolutely what’s going on, just wasting time dancing around not wanting to take the job is irritating (box gutters  )
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Sep 1, 2021 12:53
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Loezi posted:window poo poo As an aside, from someone who works in the industry, COVID did blindside us. At one point we were up to 28-week lead times on product that normally takes us 6-8 weeks to get. However, that company's conduct was poo poo. Reminds me more of, say, my company's sister branch a town down, rather than the branch I started at. Also gently caress subcontractors and gently caress showing up to the job site not knowing what you need. That particular bit of information is literally part of my job and I haven't hosed up yet - barring unforeseen consequences like an inch and a half of lath and plaster covering a completely rotten stud exterior wall that prevents us from installing a slider. The thing about "built-in mosquito nets" confuses me. Is window screening not a standard thing in Europe? If I order a window over here, it comes with a screen, and the standard mesh is more than enough to keep out mosquitoes. If I want a tighter weave or no screen I have to specify.
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Sep 1, 2021 15:12
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First off I'd say there's no european standard. Windows in Finland and Sweden vary a lot from windows in Germany or France. And most modern windows in Finland don't open (except for cleaning), but have a hatch on the side with a mosquito net. For climate control, since A/Cs are uncommon.
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Sep 1, 2021 15:13
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Things America gets right: 1. Windows that open 2. Window screens 3. Iced beverages
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Sep 1, 2021 15:20
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Just as an example, this is the most common window model in Norway:  It slides all the way around, so it's easy to wash both sides from inside the house. (Which is why the original trademark was the "Housewife window" - it's just the H-window now.) Comes with some ultra-insulating three layer argon filled glass, of course.
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Sep 1, 2021 15:20
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I utterly despise casement- and awning-type windows on principle. All the moving parts make them that much easier to loving break, especially when they're egress and/or washable hinges like those. And the hardware is loving expensive when they break too. I would pay about $50 cost for a crank handle, probably sell it for around $120. At least it looks like that particular model is simpler - flip the latch on the bottom and push it out, no cranking the fucker around and around to push it out.
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Sep 1, 2021 15:24
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I like our simple windows that don't open. 99% of windows don't need to open except for cleaning and they are easier to keep energy efficient. This our kitchen, three windows, none have nets or open except for cleaning. On the side there are two smaller windows that do open, they have built in nets: Seen from outside, the little window to the right is our mud room and that window opens and has a built in net.  And here's a typical bedroom window seen from outside, note the hatch on the left, all our bedrooms have this style of window and you just open it whe you need to 
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Sep 1, 2021 15:42
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D34THROW posted:I utterly despise casement- and awning-type windows on principle. All the moving parts make them that much easier to loving break, especially when they're egress and/or washable hinges like those. And the hardware is loving expensive when they break too. I would pay about $50 cost for a crank handle, probably sell it for around $120. They're not that complicated, no. One 90-degree turn handle and those (admittedly non-trivial) hinges. I don't think I've ever heard of one failing beyond needing some lube. Normal side-opening windows are of course also an option - that's what we've had in most places I've lived. Not great for mosquito netting (or AC hoses), but at least they're very simple. I've never seen a sash window here; I suspect they're not the ideal fit for our winters? Seems like a very different set of tradeoffs.
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Sep 1, 2021 16:02
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Computer viking posted:I've never seen a sash window here; I suspect they're not the ideal fit for our winters? Seems like a very different set of tradeoffs. Modern sash windows are absolutely fine for winters. And summers. And have screens built in. And can tilt in for easy cleaning. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to be able to open a window while also not allowing bugs in your home unless you live someplace that is so horribly designed that it's assumed you'll be using air conditioning because there aren't enough opposing windows to get a breeze through.
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Sep 1, 2021 16:08
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Motronic posted:Modern sash windows are absolutely fine for winters. And summers. And have screens built in. And can tilt in for easy cleaning. I mean, mosquito netting really isn't much of a thing here in Denmark because generally we just don't have that many bugs. I might let in the occasional mosquito hawk or moth or a couple of spiders, but, eh, not like that's gonna kill me or cause any notable discomfort.
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Sep 1, 2021 16:45
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I have never had a desire to open our windows to air the house out as long as I've lived here, when it gets hot we actually close up the windows, to keep heat out and only let the FTX unit do the air exchange. Seems to me a badly designed house would have a bigger need of openable windows, to compensate for bad ventilation / insulation.
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Sep 1, 2021 16:48
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D34THROW posted:Also gently caress subcontractors and gently caress showing up to the job site not knowing what you need. That particular bit of information is literally part of my job and I haven't hosed up yet - barring unforeseen consequences like an inch and a half of lath and plaster covering a completely rotten stud exterior wall that prevents us from installing a slider. The Construction Dudes were cool: both we and them were told by Sales Guy that all materials will be on site ready for them. Their whole deal from the start was "show up with tools and install all the poo poo someone brought in over the preceding weeks". I have zero ill will towards them and they did a really nice job of everything they touched. gently caress the Sales Guy, tho. D34THROW posted:The thing about "built-in mosquito nets" confuses me. Is window screening not a standard thing in Europe? If I order a window over here, it comes with a screen, and the standard mesh is more than enough to keep out mosquitoes. If I want a tighter weave or no screen I have to specify. As His Divine Shadow said, most Finnish windows are not equipped with netting, as they are not really meant to be opened for cooling etc. Instead you have a smaller side window/hatch things, which do usually come with prebuilt netting, some opting for those rather tight weaves that block pollen to a degree as well. But because the cabin is rather small, we had no space for the separate smaller windows/hatches, thus the needing the type of all-in-one solution less common here. Also, the windows are the type where you have a multi-pane (I think ours might be three-pane?) outer glass with and then single-pane inner window, with a centimeter or two of air separating the two for an increased total R-value. The total depth of the whole contraption is something like 10cm, which I assume would make the sash style impractical.
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Sep 1, 2021 16:50
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PurpleXVI posted:I mean, mosquito netting really isn't much of a thing here in Denmark because generally we just don't have that many bugs. I might let in the occasional mosquito hawk or moth or a couple of spiders, but, eh, not like that's gonna kill me or cause any notable discomfort. Basically this. If you live somewhere humid in the US south, where you both would want to keep multiple windows open for most of the year and there are a lot of mosquitoes and other bugs, netting seems like it would cross the border from "nice to have" into "basically a requirement to live here". For an average Norwegian house, where the only window that's open for more than some intermittent airing is likely to be in a bedroom that's not on the ground floor? Eh, it would stop a few wasps in late summer, I guess.
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Sep 1, 2021 16:51
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If your window can’t fit a half‐metre box fan it it, it’s not a window, it’s a peephole. 
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Sep 1, 2021 16:58
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His Divine Shadow posted:I have never had a desire to open our windows to air the house out as long as I've lived here, when it gets hot we actually close up the windows, to keep heat out and only let the FTX unit do the air exchange. Seems to me a badly designed house would have a bigger need of openable windows, to compensate for bad ventilation / insulation. Yes, clearly the badly designed house is the one that doesn't require electrically powered equipment to cool....... You've got yourself some really strong confirmation bias there, I get it. But are you seriously saying this with a straight face?
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Sep 1, 2021 17:00
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Sounds to me like you're the one with the confirmation bias personally. You might disagree with the design, but it sounds like you just speak from ignorance of modern european building practices with modern and efficient ventilation systems with heat reclamation units. This house is designed to work like this because it's more efficient. Even that risinger guy was talking about it and he's an american. edit: Also another bias of yours, your constant insistence on ventilation as cooling. The point of ventilation here is about fresh air exchange, not cooling. The house is designed so it doesn't need active cooling or have to open the windows to cool it down, because it's properly designed for the environment it lives in. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Sep 1, 2021 |
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Sep 1, 2021 17:04
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His Divine Shadow posted:Sounds to me like you're the one with the confirmation bias personally. You might disagree with the design, but it sounds like you just speak from ignorance of modern european building practices with modern and efficient ventilation systems with heat reclamation units. This house is designed to work like this because it's more efficient. Even that risinger guy was talking about it and he's an american. "Opening windows is less efficient than running climate control" is one a hell of a take.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:07
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Motronic posted:"Opening windows is less efficient than running climate control" is one a hell of a take. But objectively a true one. A house like this uses less energy than one that doesn't have it and that's a proven fact. FTX systems as they are known here are proven energy savers and becoming the standard on builds since the 00s. So no, that's a helluva take on your part.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:11
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His Divine Shadow posted:But objectively a true one. A house like this uses less energy than one that doesn't have it and that's a proven fact. FTX systems as they are known here are proven energy savers and becoming the standard on builds since the 00s. So no, that's a helluva take on your part. You're actually serious. Wow, that's a special kind of brain worms you've got there.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:12
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Motronic posted:"Opening windows is less efficient than running climate control" is one a hell of a take. I mean, air source heat pumps are pretty much cheat codes for heating/cooling. Sash-type windows allow for easy installation of an windows sill AC unit, whereas the side-hinged windows allow for more insulation in the same amount of used space. Given that old Finnish homes are usually designed to run without forced air and newer ones have central air (or an ASHP or equivalent non-window-installed unit), those upsides are rather non-material, while the benefits of higher R-values (or lower U-values) remain material.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:14
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Motronic posted:You're actually serious. Wow, that's a special kind of brain worms you've got there. Now you're just trolling. I dunno what your problem is, maybe you had a lovely day or something. But I've spoken the facts which are backed up the research and empirical evidence. Maybe you should chill off and do some research before making more of a fool out of yourself. Perhaps investigate the passivhaus standard in which these kind of ventilation systems are in use.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:16
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Please explain how using greater than zero energy is somehow more efficient than using zero energy to heat or cool a house.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:24
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His Divine Shadow posted:Now you're just trolling. I dunno what your problem is, maybe you had a lovely day or something. But I've spoken the facts which are backed up the research and empirical evidence. Maybe you should chill off and do some research before making more of a fool out of yourself. Perhaps investigate the passivhaus standard in which these kind of ventilation systems are in use. Let's try it this way, which of these is confusing you? 1.) Operable windows that are just as efficient as fixed windows exist 2.) In no reality is running powered equipment "more efficient" than not running powered equipment. 3.) FTX and building performance standards are good things, but don't magically get around "when the outside temperature is more desirable than the inside temperature opening windows is always more efficient than any other method of changing the inside temperature".
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Sep 1, 2021 17:25
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I think the idea is that outdoor air is never at a temperature as or more comfortable than indoor air. If you don’t exchange heat in some fancy European machine, you’ll ultimately expend more energy heating or chilling the replacement air, even if it enters your home without the assistance of a fan. Don’t care. I still want windows that open.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:27
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Enos Cabell posted:Please explain how using greater than zero energy is somehow more efficient than using zero energy to heat or cool a house. Because the ventilation unit recovers the heat air from the house when it's colder outside. When you just open a window you loose the heated air and need to heat the incoming air. This is not insignificant. It also works the opposite way when it's hot outside.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:30
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Must suck living somewhere so inhospitable that the outdoor air is never pleasant.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:30
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Just more of them commie european windows. Not allowed the freedom to open.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:33
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Motronic posted:Let's try it this way, which of these is confusing you? 1. Probably somewhere in europe yes 2. This is actually wrong. See point 3. Opening windows in the winter time to air the house up and then heating it, would be less efficient than recovering the heat via mechanical ventilation. 3. You have to average it out over the year. At a particular season the system would be less efficient because the temperature then happens to be near the ideal indoor temperature, but then we have winters where that is baically never true and that's where it makes up for it.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:36
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Platystemon posted:I think the idea is that outdoor air is never at a temperature as or more comfortable than indoor air. As a European: I hugely agree. It's nice to have an air/air heat pump or whatever, for when you need it, but for 80% of the year, I can just either open or close a couple of windows and I'm good. Right at the height of summer I need to supplement with a fan, and for a few months on the winter side of things we need some extra heat, but explicitly because this house is well-built and insulated, a couple of open windows is all it takes. It also helps that Denmark is about as temperate a climate as you're gonna get, though climate change is loving that up some.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:37
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Enos Cabell posted:Must suck living somewhere so inhospitable that the outdoor air is never pleasant. I have bad news for you about the foreseeable future.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:38
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His Divine Shadow posted:Because the ventilation unit recovers the heat air from the house when it's colder outside. When you just open a window you loose the heated air and need to heat the incoming air. This is not insignificant. It also works the opposite way when it's hot outside. That's not a sane scenario. Let's assume you like your house at 22c. It's 22c outside. Which is more efficient: running equipment to meet the outside air temperature, or opening windows that enable outside air to come inside?
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Sep 1, 2021 17:38
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Computer viking posted:They're not that complicated, no. One 90-degree turn handle and those (admittedly non-trivial) hinges. I don't think I've ever heard of one failing beyond needing some lube. We're talking about two different things. If it's a 90° turn handle and then just a literal hinge like a door plus some piece of hardware to keep it up, that's great. I'm talking about crank-out awning-type and casement-type windows, with a crank handle (housing plus gears and a swing arm, which if any one piece goes, the whole thing's shot), vent hooks, vent locks, torque bars, bearings, and about ten other parts that all have to work in sync perfectly. I work in the window and door industry and sold hundreds of those parts while I worked retail. Maybe it's because I'm in Florida and we have a lot of old Norandex, Harcar, Florida Extruders, Lawson, etc. type windows that are slowly being supplanted by CGI/PGT/WinDoor/other PGT subsidiaries, Pella, Anderson, etc. Those old windows fail a lot, the closer you get to the ocean. When I ran the service department, I'd say a good 40%-50% of our awning window calls were beyond the help of lube, and in a lot of those cases beyond the help of a service call.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:39
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Platystemon posted:Don’t care. I still want windows that open. But even the European windows do open, just not in the same way the sash windows do 
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Sep 1, 2021 17:39
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Wrar posted:That's not a sane scenario. Let's assume you like your house at 22c. It's 22c outside. Which is more efficient: running equipment to meet the outside air temperature, or opening windows that enable outside air to come inside? This is not a realistic scenario. The average outdoor temperature here is far lower than that most of the year and we have to plan for the whole year. EDIT: I mean, you are right of course in that scenario. But that's what a few weeks total every year here His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Sep 1, 2021 |
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Sep 1, 2021 17:40
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Y’all have melted sand windows? Where I’m from, we’re still using oiled animal hides.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:41
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Loezi posted:But even the European windows do open, just not in the same way the sash windows do True, I could open any of my windows if I wanted to, once I find the handle... EDIT: Found it!  Current outdoor temperature, 11C. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Sep 1, 2021 |
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Sep 1, 2021 17:41
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Wrar posted:That's not a sane scenario. Let's assume you like your house at 22c. It's 22c outside. Which is more efficient: running equipment to meet the outside air temperature, or opening windows that enable outside air to come inside? I live in the very southern Finland. Based on the stats from the Finnish Meteorological Institute from 1961 to present, the "typical daily maximum temperature" is 20 degrees Celcius or more between June 29th to August 14th and 21 degrees or more between July 9th to August 4th. Planning my heat and air stuff around the expectation "it's exactly 21c outside" is not a sane scenario. E: Has "Finnish window chat" become the new "Finnish roof access ladder chat"? Loezi fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Sep 1, 2021 |
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Sep 1, 2021 17:51
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Loezi posted:Planning my heat and air stuff around the expectation "it's exactly 21c outside" is not a sane scenario. Now we're getting somewhere. I agree that this is not a sane scenario, but not for the reasons you think: the insane part of this scenario is believing you have to have your inside temperature at exactly 21c all the time.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:54
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Motronic posted:Now we're getting somewhere. I agree that this is not a sane scenario, but not for the reasons you think: the insane part of this scenario is believing you have to have your inside temperature at exactly 21c all the time. If you read my post again, you might notice that I wasn't making a statement to the effect that my inside temp needs to be exactly 21c all the time
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Sep 1, 2021 17:57
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Loezi posted:E: Has "Finnish window chat" become the new "Finnish roof access ladder chat"?
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