Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

«‹›3135 »

Dramicus: Mar 26, 2010; Grimey Drawer

Rocket Pan posted:

Yes. I do the multiplayer stuff.

Do you know what's going on with System Shock? I don't mind that it's been delayed again to December 31st, I just hope development is still trucking along and all is well.

# ? Sep 1, 2021 20:47

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# ? May 14, 2024 08:09

KrunkMcGrunk: Jul 2, 2007; Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit.

does anyone else running freesync have noticeable frame issues in the quake remaster? i've tried changing the refresh rate in options to 120 and 165, but my monitor is 144 hz, and it seems like the game is capped at 60.

the game looks less smooth than other stuff on my pc, or even youtube videos of OG quake (i have to find all the secrets).

# ? Sep 1, 2021 20:51

Convex: Aug 19, 2010

Dramicus posted:

Do you know what's going on with System Shock? I don't mind that it's been delayed again to December 31st, I just hope development is still trucking along and all is well.

Oh poo poo I didn't hear that. I was waiting for an email any day now

# ? Sep 1, 2021 20:52

Dramicus: Mar 26, 2010; Grimey Drawer

KrunkMcGrunk posted:

does anyone else running freesync have noticeable frame issues in the quake remaster? i've tried changing the refresh rate in options to 120 and 165, but my monitor is 144 hz, and it seems like the game is capped at 60.

the game looks less smooth than other stuff on my pc, or even youtube videos of OG quake (i have to find all the secrets).

I'm running AMD and it does 144hz no problem. However, you aren't the first person to complain about this. I noticed in the steam forums for Quake that some other AMD users had the exact same issue as you. It works normally on my machine so the only help I can give is that there's probably some setting or configuration that you need to change.

# ? Sep 1, 2021 20:54

KrunkMcGrunk: Jul 2, 2007; Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit.

Dramicus posted:

I'm running AMD and it does 144hz no problem. However, you aren't the first person to complain about this. I noticed in the steam forums for Quake that some other AMD users had the exact same issue as you. It works normally on my machine so the only help I can give is that there's probably some setting or configuration that you need to change.

hmmm. i've confirmed that i have freesync turned on with both my monitor and video card. i'm running an older RX580 - i wonder if it's some kind of driver issue?

the game def runs at or above 120 fps on my laptop--where it looks smooth as butter.

e: yeah, some guy on the steam forums is having the same problem as me re: frames. Here's a video he took that shows the problem in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvZwPfFEDVw

KrunkMcGrunk fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Sep 1, 2021

# ? Sep 1, 2021 20:55

Dramicus: Mar 26, 2010; Grimey Drawer

KrunkMcGrunk posted:

hmmm. i've confirmed that i have freesync turned on with both my monitor and video card. i'm running an older RX580 - i wonder if it's some kind of driver issue?

the game def runs at or above 120 fps on my laptop--where it looks smooth as butter.

This is a shot in the dark, but have you checked the resolution setting?

# ? Sep 1, 2021 20:58

Grimthwacker: Aug 7, 2014

I like having the big, chonky full Quake HUD active. I just like to have full view of all my ammo types so I don't accidentally switch to something too low. Sure you can barely see your guns, but that's what I'm most used to.

# ? Sep 1, 2021 22:33

Copper Vein: Mar 14, 2007; ...and we liked it that way.

The new Quake release and campaign got me back to playing retro FPS's and I tore through a bunch of early access shooters that updated since I played them last.

Ultrakill was head and shoulders over everything I played, IMO. When I first booted it up again, it felt like the fastest FPS that I had ever played. Thanks to the movement and shooting mechanics, I just feel more involved with the combat than almost any other FPS. I guess if you really examine it, Ultrakill isn't very retro, gameplay wise. It borrows a bunch of stuff from Doom '16 and Eternal and then dresses up like a Playstation game. The Whiplash that has been added in feels particularly cribbed from Doom Eternal, but when it unlocked the game just broke wide open for me. Now I'm yanking minor enemies from their sniping positions and zipping across the arenas with a charged shotgun to take the ruckus to the bigger foes that had previously kept me strafing and dodging.

I think my main criticism is that the shotgun weapons are too ubiquitously useful for a small arsenal where everything should have it's niche. I can do the thing where you punch your shotgun pellets and turn them into a pinpoint accurate instant explosives just as easily as clicking LMB now, and the Whiplash means I can fearlessly jump right into the biggest foes to attack point blank and get all my health back. I'm personally not finding much utility with the nailgun and pistol. In fairness, the Whiplash was the last thing that unlocked before the current EA campaign ended, so everything I've been terrorizing was designed to be a challenge before you have it in your arsenal. I'm confident that the dev will up the ante in the upcoming levels so my current tactics don't seem so overpowered.

I also blew through the Prodeus EA campaign. It takes like half of it's current length to feel interesting, but once it gets momentum it gets really good. I'm sure that everybody knows what Prodeus is about, by now. It's plays close to a one-to-one copy of the Doom 1, just much smoother and with mouselook. It's not a challenge though; I was playing on Hard and rarely had difficulty with an encounter or was running low on ammo for my preferred weapon.

There are a ton of weapons, too. They aren't all in the current build and there are still more guns than most shooters have in total. They didn't even bother having default key binds for several of them, including the Super Shotgun! They just expect you to use the quick weapon menu. Again, I needlessly used the shotgun most of the time, since it seemed so efficient and you can snipe with the alt-fire.

I fault the performance though, because as the levels got larger they also started to run slower. All the levels look the same, and have similar sized arenas, but while the later levels always remained very playable, they were dropping my framerate even though I feel they weren't showing me more at once or doing anything new, and it cost me a lot of the smoothness that I had been enjoying.

I do absolutely love what Prodeus does with sprites, though. You can play with 3D models for the enemies if you like, but by default it uses hundreds of sprites for each enemy, and not just more rotated angles when the enemy is viewed flat on, either. It also has sprites for the if the enemies are above or below you as well, plus damaged variations where they have lost limbs but are still fighting. The weapon pickups are sprites, but there are so many angles included that you can run around them and jump over them and it'll look like a 3D model. It's crazy. The spritework is my favorite part of Prodeus, even though they were probably all spat out by their modeling software and the enemies themselves don't really look that interesting.

# ? Sep 1, 2021 23:26

Stockwell: Mar 29, 2005; Ask me about personal watercraft.

I just cleared Quake on Nightmare for the first time, the last time I played through in it's entirety I think it was on medium. I initially started on Hard but it wasn't a huge challenge so I figured I'd bump it up. Overall it was decently challenging, though I had to do a bit of save-scumming near the end when they decide to pull bullshit like throwing vores and spawns at you en masse. lol 3 vores at once in a tiny room? sure why not. At least they sprinkled around powerups liberally to compensate.

I understand they tweaked the difficulty with the change to the HP limit and the AI behavior, for those of you who have played both the original and remake nightmare, how does it compare?

# ? Sep 1, 2021 23:39

SeANMcBAY: Jun 28, 2006; Look on the bright side.

Nightmare is considered by a lot of people to be easier than hard in the original due to more predictive enemy patterns.

# ? Sep 1, 2021 23:46

repiv: Aug 13, 2009

Copper Vein posted:

I'm confident that the dev will up the ante in the upcoming levels so my current tactics don't seem so overpowered.

If P-1 is any indication, the upcoming levels are going to seriously up the ante. That level is insane.

If you didn't find P-1 yet get a P rank on all Prelude and Act 1 levels then look for a door in 3-1

# ? Sep 1, 2021 23:50

Eyud: Aug 5, 2006

KrunkMcGrunk posted:

does anyone else running freesync have noticeable frame issues in the quake remaster? i've tried changing the refresh rate in options to 120 and 165, but my monitor is 144 hz, and it seems like the game is capped at 60.

the game looks less smooth than other stuff on my pc, or even youtube videos of OG quake (i have to find all the secrets).

Yeah, something about the interpolation or whatever isn�t as nice as other source ports. There�s a big difference in smoothness between 100 fps and 500, even though my monitor is 100 hz. vkQuake at 100 fps still feels better than the rerelease at 500. It doesn�t really bother me once I�m playing but it�s noticeable when I switch between the two. The Doom 64 port was the same way.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 00:00

Convex: Aug 19, 2010

If you're having weird stutter issues with any game in win10, try right clicking the exe and disabling full-screen optimisations. That's also fixed a few games crashing when I tried streaming to a Steam link, and seems to enable forced AA in some games where it doesn't otherwise work.

I'm unsure what that setting actually means to be honest.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 00:25

A.o.D.: Jan 15, 2006

Copper Vein posted:

The new Quake release and campaign got me back to playing retro FPS's and I tore through a bunch of early access shooters that updated since I played them last.

Ultrakill was head and shoulders over everything I played, IMO. When I first booted it up again, it felt like the fastest FPS that I had ever played. Thanks to the movement and shooting mechanics, I just feel more involved with the combat than almost any other FPS. I guess if you really examine it, Ultrakill isn't very retro, gameplay wise. It borrows a bunch of stuff from Doom '16 and Eternal and then dresses up like a Playstation game. The Whiplash that has been added in feels particularly cribbed from Doom Eternal, but when it unlocked the game just broke wide open for me. Now I'm yanking minor enemies from their sniping positions and zipping across the arenas with a charged shotgun to take the ruckus to the bigger foes that had previously kept me strafing and dodging.

I think my main criticism is that the shotgun weapons are too ubiquitously useful for a small arsenal where everything should have it's niche. I can do the thing where you punch your shotgun pellets and turn them into a pinpoint accurate instant explosives just as easily as clicking LMB now, and the Whiplash means I can fearlessly jump right into the biggest foes to attack point blank and get all my health back. I'm personally not finding much utility with the nailgun and pistol. In fairness, the Whiplash was the last thing that unlocked before the current EA campaign ended, so everything I've been terrorizing was designed to be a challenge before you have it in your arsenal. I'm confident that the dev will up the ante in the upcoming levels so my current tactics don't seem so overpowered.

I also blew through the Prodeus EA campaign. It takes like half of it's current length to feel interesting, but once it gets momentum it gets really good. I'm sure that everybody knows what Prodeus is about, by now. It's plays close to a one-to-one copy of the Doom 1, just much smoother and with mouselook. It's not a challenge though; I was playing on Hard and rarely had difficulty with an encounter or was running low on ammo for my preferred weapon.

There are a ton of weapons, too. They aren't all in the current build and there are still more guns than most shooters have in total. They didn't even bother having default key binds for several of them, including the Super Shotgun! They just expect you to use the quick weapon menu. Again, I needlessly used the shotgun most of the time, since it seemed so efficient and you can snipe with the alt-fire.

I fault the performance though, because as the levels got larger they also started to run slower. All the levels look the same, and have similar sized arenas, but while the later levels always remained very playable, they were dropping my framerate even though I feel they weren't showing me more at once or doing anything new, and it cost me a lot of the smoothness that I had been enjoying.

I do absolutely love what Prodeus does with sprites, though. You can play with 3D models for the enemies if you like, but by default it uses hundreds of sprites for each enemy, and not just more rotated angles when the enemy is viewed flat on, either. It also has sprites for the if the enemies are above or below you as well, plus damaged variations where they have lost limbs but are still fighting. The weapon pickups are sprites, but there are so many angles included that you can run around them and jump over them and it'll look like a 3D model. It's crazy. The spritework is my favorite part of Prodeus, even though they were probably all spat out by their modeling software and the enemies themselves don't really look that interesting.

Does Prodeus have actual sprite sheets, or does it just convert 3D models into sorites I real time?

# ? Sep 2, 2021 00:38

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

A.o.D. posted:

Does Prodeus have actual sprite sheets, or does it just convert 3D models into sorites I real time?

This is my understanding of what it does. Once you get into different vertical angles the number of sprites gets absurd.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 01:03

Al Cu Ad Solte: Nov 30, 2005; Searching for
a righteous cause

Dramicus posted:

Do you know what's going on with System Shock? I don't mind that it's been delayed again to December 31st, I just hope development is still trucking along and all is well.

Oh did they make an announcement somewhere? I haven't seen it. Not surprising, though.

UnknownMercenary posted:

The best Duke Nukem game not 3D is Duke Nukem Advance.

If you can put up with no level music and the second worst shotgun pump sound effect in any shooter ever then yeah, it's pretty good actually. The framerate isn't great either but it still feels strangely smooth thanks to using the same engine as the GBA Doom 2 port iirc.

I just like Duke. :allears:

For whatever reason Ion Fury didn't really scratch that itch.

Al Cu Ad Solte fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Sep 2, 2021

# ? Sep 2, 2021 02:12

Barudak: May 7, 2007

I'll keep saying it, Prodeus (and all FPS games really) need to have a feature where I can remove certain weapons from the scroll wheel rotation. If I need a specific weapon, sure, I'll use the weapon menu, but in the heat of the moment I want the 2/3 guns that are my workhorses

# ? Sep 2, 2021 02:20

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

Wouldn't converting 3d models intro sprites in realtime just be called 3d rendering onto your screen?

If the sprite stays static and takes a few degrees of viewing angle to change, then it could be a capture of the model held as a bitmap briefly before being regenerated, but that's really pushing the definition of what a sprite is.

I'm actually kinda curious now.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 02:42

david_a: Apr 24, 2010; Megamarm

Serephina posted:

Wouldn't converting 3d models intro sprites in realtime just be called 3d rendering onto your screen?

If the sprite stays static and takes a few degrees of viewing angle to change, then it could be a capture of the model held as a bitmap briefly before being regenerated, but that's really pushing the definition of what a sprite is.

I'm actually kinda curious now.

Yeah, I think it�s some kind of shader. I wouldn�t really call them �sprites� in the traditional sense but the name gets the point across.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 02:51

Rocket Pan: Nov 3, 2011; Anything can be sent, as long as it's less than 1200 bytes

Barudak posted:

Quake has decided to just not agree with my completion of certain mission packs and give me the achievements but whatever, its fine, I did everything except quake 64 because a) my god my eyes my eyes and b) it has this weird dreamlike quality where everything is slightly off and wrong in the level layout

Don't ever start from level select, which was likely your mistake. You can only complete stuff by starting the traditional way.

Dramicus posted:

Do you know what's going on with System Shock? I don't mind that it's been delayed again to December 31st, I just hope development is still trucking along and all is well.

I do not. System Shock is a different team. December 31st additionally sounds like a blatant placeholder date that you shouldn't be paying attention to. Also did System Shock even have a release date or does everyone just assume it did? People made the same mistake already with Shadowman that had no announced release date at all.

Rocket Pan fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Sep 2, 2021

# ? Sep 2, 2021 02:53

Dramicus: Mar 26, 2010; Grimey Drawer

Rocket Pan posted:

Don't ever start from level select, which was likely your mistake. You can only complete stuff by starting the traditional way.

Also did System Shock even have a release date or does everyone just assume it did?

Well when I pre-ordered it, the date was set for early June. When we got close to that, the date was changed to August 31st. On August 30th, it was changed again to December 31st. Maybe it's just a placeholder as you say, but I feel like they wouldn't be moving it around so much if it were.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 03:15

Rocket Pan: Nov 3, 2011; Anything can be sent, as long as it's less than 1200 bytes

Dramicus posted:

Well when I pre-ordered it, the date was set for early June. When we got close to that, the date was changed to August 31st. On August 30th, it was changed again to December 31st. Maybe it's just a placeholder as you say, but I feel like they wouldn't be moving it around so much if it were.

Odd, what's giving you these release dates? Outside of publisher requirements (i.e Quake) we generally never do that. This is usually why we don't put release dates on Kex projects, the potential release date shifts so much.

Edit: Apparently these are dates that were sitting on the Steam and GOG page? I wouldn't take much stake in them, they are likely an artefact. When the System Shock team is ready, they'll announce an official release date.

Rocket Pan fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Sep 2, 2021

# ? Sep 2, 2021 03:18

Barudak: May 7, 2007

So in Doom 64 how do I turn off the CRT filter if such an effect exists because sweet god my eyes

# ? Sep 2, 2021 03:53

Dramicus: Mar 26, 2010; Grimey Drawer

Rocket Pan posted:

Edit: Apparently these are dates that were sitting on the Steam and GOG page? I wouldn't take much stake in them, they are likely an artefact. When the System Shock team is ready, they'll announce an official release date.

Yes, that was it. Alright, good to know then. Other games without hard dates would normally have "coming soon" or "q4 2021" stuff like that. My favorite is the Dwarf Fortress's "release date".

# ? Sep 2, 2021 04:21

SeANMcBAY: Jun 28, 2006; Look on the bright side.

Tried Unreal 3 after years of not playing it and yeah, it�s super loving slow. I actually like how it looks though. The Gears aesthetic fits it imo.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 04:45

kirbysuperstar: Nov 11, 2012; Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

SeANMcBAY posted:

Tried Unreal 3 after years of not playing it and yeah, it�s super loving slow. I actually like how it looks though. The Gears aesthetic fits it imo.

I think I'd really like DM-ShangriLa if it wasn't so desaturated

# ? Sep 2, 2021 04:57

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
...

i miss tribes

# ? Sep 2, 2021 04:59

Barudak: May 7, 2007

Bring back Tribes Vengeance with Geo-Modding and then make everyone sexy anime waifus because otherwise nobody is gonna play this game

# ? Sep 2, 2021 05:24

Crowetron: Apr 29, 2009

*gazing wistfully into the horizon, a lone tear escaping my eye* Shazbot...

# ? Sep 2, 2021 05:29

SeANMcBAY: Jun 28, 2006; Look on the bright side.

Tribes was cool. I remember watching my cousin play the second one.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 05:29

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

I thought the single player demo for Tribes: Vengeance was really cool back in the day. I kind of think the whole game is out there for free now. I should check it out some time.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 07:23

dishwasherlove: Nov 26, 2007; The ultimate fusion of man and machine.

It's heresy, but I like the grappling hook in Tribes.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 07:54

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

Casimir Radon posted:

I thought the single player demo for Tribes: Vengeance was really cool back in the day. I kind of think the whole game is out there for free now. I should check it out some time.

The rights holder used to have full ISO downloads for the entire series, but some of the links seem to be either broken or hotlinking from the Internet Archive's understandably-slow servers, so your milage may well vary.

PC Gaming Wiki links to an updated and patched version provided by the fan-site Tribes Revengeance, but I have not tested it and cannot vouch for it.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 08:05

Casimir Radon: Aug 2, 2008

The Kins posted:

The rights holder used to have full ISO downloads for the entire series, but some of the links seem to be either broken or hotlinking from the Internet Archive's understandably-slow servers, so your milage may well vary.

PC Gaming Wiki links to an updated and patched version provided by the fan-site Tribes Revengeance, but I have not tested it and cannot vouch for it.

Yep, found that. I tried to get it working with the ISOs at one point and it didn�t work immediately so I lost interest. I downloaded the ReVengeance release and it�s actually working, so that�s a good sign.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 08:17

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

i played t:v single player for the first time a few months back... you're better off just playing matches in 1 and/or 2 with bots lol

# ? Sep 2, 2021 08:22

Quantum of Phallus: Dec 27, 2010

Barudak posted:

So in Doom 64 how do I turn off the CRT filter if such an effect exists because sweet god my eyes

I don�t remember doom 64 having any CRT filter! I played on switch though.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 08:43

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

Quantum of Phallus posted:

I don�t remember doom 64 having any CRT filter! I played on switch though.

The Quake 64 mod in the remaster has a comically over-the-top CRT filter for laffs.

IIRC you can disable it on PC with r_crtfilter 0 or something like that.

# ? Sep 2, 2021 08:48

Quantum of Phallus: Dec 27, 2010

I know but that person said doom 64

# ? Sep 2, 2021 08:50

Barudak: May 7, 2007

Sorry, I was struck blind by the Quake 64 filter and was unable to read what I wrote through the migraine.

I will try the console command, sweet god it hurts.

Edit: It did not work. Gonna try dropping resolution to 480 and seeing if that helps

Barudak fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Sep 2, 2021

# ? Sep 2, 2021 09:06

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# ? May 14, 2024 08:09

Convex: Aug 19, 2010

Barudak posted:

So in Doom 64 how do I turn off the CRT filter if such an effect exists because sweet god my eyes

I'm afraid it may be time to upgrade your television and/or console

# ? Sep 2, 2021 09:25

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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