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ted hitler hunter posted:Yeah, no capitalist secret police operating all over the globe, lol. No SÄPO, CIA, MI6, etc. It's not like the secret police in the west spy on and have infiltrated and sabotaged any and all leftist movements regardless of country. The founder of the Danish Socialist People's Party was literally a CIA agent who ratted out his former comrades in the Communist Party. PET illegally surveilled all notable leftists for decades, leaving them to spend a significant portion of their lives clearing their names. FE manages all cybersurveillance and allows the NSA unfettered access. The government has facilitated CIA torture flight stopovers.
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Sep 1, 2021 13:52
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But those guys are on our side, Stasi were the enemy.
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Sep 1, 2021 14:06
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imho you can be a communist without being a state capitalist
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Sep 1, 2021 14:17
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:imho you can be a communist without being a state capitalist But can you cite any historical examples?
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Sep 1, 2021 16:38
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Off the top of my head, none of these guys were state capitalists afaik
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Sep 1, 2021 19:05
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Lol at defending communism by citing Xi.
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Sep 1, 2021 20:33
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Also, I ain't reading all that poo poo but yeah sure I concede the point that Stasi et al were at least as bad as the CIA and their pet death squads.
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Sep 1, 2021 20:44
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Off the top of my head, none of these guys were state capitalists afaik None of them had states under their leadership either, so I don't know if it counts. Theory is in many ways easier than practice. But yeah, in theory, and hopefully at some point also in practice, communism is good. Anyway, Marx was a class traitor, so...
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Sep 1, 2021 21:24
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I'll admit to skimming the Deng and Xi parts, but just wanted to say I really liked this effortpost. The JFK and Olof Palme parts are a bit too conspiracy theory for me, but the rest seems solid. Speaking of social fascists, Tesfaye is now chanting "build the wall", so that's great I guess. SplitSoul posted:The founder of the Danish Socialist People's Party was literally a CIA agent who ratted out his former comrades in the Communist Party. Him informing on other party members to the CIA was lovely though. Also lol The wiki posted:Although the CIA operation was illegal under Danish law, the Danish intelligence agencies promised not to intervene in return for transcripts of the debriefings
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Sep 1, 2021 21:43
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Mr. Sunshine posted:Also, I ain't reading all that poo poo but yeah sure I concede the point that Stasi et al were at least as bad as the CIA and their pet death squads. if you go by body count, at least, they absolutely were not
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Sep 1, 2021 22:27
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the Moscow Theses were spectacularly poorly suited for deployment in a scandinavian political setting, as the norwegian labour party learned to their detriment in the early twenties. the labour confederations were not at all keen on being suborned to the political party, and a lot of the structural and organisational sides of the theses made no sense for a mass party in a scandinavian context. this was true both in the interwar period and after the war. it by no means excuses the ridiculous persecution of moscow-oriented communists, many of whom had made genuinely heroic contributions to the resistance against the nazis, after WWII an interesting story in this regard is Peder Furubotn, who was effectively hounded by both soviets and western allies: western allies for being a Communist, soviets for having started opposition to the nazis before the soviets were at war with them
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Sep 1, 2021 22:31
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Mr. Sunshine posted:Also, I ain't reading all that poo poo Ah, well
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Sep 1, 2021 22:38
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Esran posted:I'm not sure I can blame him for being fed up with the Soviets by the late fifties. Not sure that's sufficient cause to join up with the loving CIA, especially if you consider working with nazis a dealbreaker.
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Sep 3, 2021 00:13
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SplitSoul posted:Not sure that's sufficient cause to join up with the loving CIA, especially if you consider working with nazis a dealbreaker. By the time the CIA had existed for like 3 years so it didn't have the reputation it currently has.
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Sep 3, 2021 08:31
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ted hitler hunter posted:The Social Democrats aka the Social Democratic Workers' Party of Sweden (S / SAP) split from their more radical left-wing faction in 1917. The left wing faction created what is now called the Left Party (V) but what was then called The Swedish Social Democrat Left Party (SSV). The Social Democrats (S) are the reformists and non-revolutionary parts of the pre-1917 Social Democratic Workers' Party of Sweden (SAP / S). The radicals in the Left Party formerly known as the Communist Party (V) split over the question over whether they should support the Bolsheviks in Russia. The reformist Social Democrats (S) cooperated and became co-opted by the ruling class (the capitalists). And as always, the left is its own worst enemy. Or to put it like this, who do you think Lenin purged first after taking power. The above is btw exactly the same factionalism you see in any radical small movement and sects. In order to grow, these issues have to be overcome and most radical movements are (thankfully) unable to to this. ted hitler hunter posted:Many different Marxists have theories about how to bring about communism. For example the theory of the productive forces. And none of these theories resulted in a socialist utopia that persisted, thus falsifying them.
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Sep 3, 2021 14:52
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Shut up, Nils.Zudgemud posted:By the time the CIA had existed for like 3 years so it didn't have the reputation it currently has. The CIA was formally established in 1947, its predecessor OSS in 1942, and Larsen wasn't expelled from DKP until 1958. It absolutely had a tainted reputation among Communists at the time, don't be dense. The DKP was also the linchpin of the Danish resistance movement, so if nazi collaboration was his concern, then perhaps he should not have snitched on his former comrades in return for fancy dinners nor sought to align with the actual collaborator parties.
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Sep 3, 2021 15:11
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Cardiac posted:And as always, the left is its own worst enemy. Or to put it like this, who do you think Lenin purged first after taking power. what is it that you imagine that you're accomplishing with these pointless platitudes
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Sep 3, 2021 17:18
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SplitSoul posted:Not sure that's sufficient cause to join up with the loving CIA, especially if you consider working with nazis a dealbreaker. Yes, I agree. I'm just saying he doesn't seem to have become a snitch out of nowhere. V. Illych L. posted:what is it that you imagine that you're accomplishing with these pointless platitudes I was dumb enough to bite on his last shitpost, causing a bit of a derail. Sorry. There have been short wildcat strikes among nurses in both Aarhus and Roskilde this week. It is just two hospitals so far, and the strikes only lasted for an hour each, but clearly the government forcing and end to the strike is not being received well.
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Sep 3, 2021 20:13
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https://nt.se/artikel/gangbrotten-ska-straffas-hardare/jv9y6gylquote:Gängbrotten ska straffas hårdare Any predictions on how this might go? Personally I worry that we end up like the system they have in the USA where the police can freely label people as "gang criminal" I assume they aren't talking about biker gangs here 
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Sep 6, 2021 15:30
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Feliday Melody posted:https://nt.se/artikel/gangbrotten-ska-straffas-hardare/jv9y6gyl Anyone even remotely leftist doing a klotter will be labelled a member of the well known international terror organisation AFA and be judged extra harsh. Any right wing terrorist doing a violent crime will be excused because he wasn't part of NMR at that moment but rather just a concerned citizen jumping on the head of a brown while screaming obscenities.
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Sep 6, 2021 16:02
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Wait this is from (s) and not (sd)? dafuq?!
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Sep 6, 2021 16:32
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"Your honour, this dangerous jaywalker is a Goon, so please throw him in jail forever tia" Maybe we should hear them out? Potrzebie posted:Anyone even remotely leftist doing a klotter will be labelled a member of the well known international terror organisation AFA and be judged extra harsh. Any right wing terrorist doing a violent crime will be excused because he wasn't part of NMR at that moment but rather just a concerned citizen jumping on the head of a brown while screaming obscenities. This seems like the likely outcome. They'll probably make sure that "gang" is defined to only include scary brown people gangs, while Hells Angels end up being classified as a "Motorcycle enthusiast association". Denmark pulled something similar a few years ago by enacting a law that punishes crime extra hard if it happens in a "ghetto", and then defining "ghetto" as only being those areas where the majority are "non-ethnic-Danes" (i.e. brown). We're still more overtly racist than you  Some Danish nurses are continuing to strike illegally, striking for an hour here and there. All their representatives seem to be hand-wringing about how illegal this is, and the regions are predictably being like "but the patients". I hope they succeed, the game is obviously rigged when they try to negotiate within the law. https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/penge/sygeplejersker-i-ulovlig-strejke-bare-proev-fyre-os-saa-vil-sundhedsvaesnet-jo
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Sep 6, 2021 17:51
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luminalflux posted:Wait this is from (s) and not (sd)? dafuq?! Posting from the racist future (Denmark), you might as well get used to these being the same.
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Sep 6, 2021 19:28
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Gonna be fun to see all the shocked Pikachu faces whenever next government rolls along and gang violence doesn't magically disappear.
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Sep 6, 2021 20:26
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BigglesSWE posted:Gonna be fun to see all the shocked Pikachu faces whenever next government rolls along and gang violence doesn't magically disappear. It's just gonna escalate in more police and more prison and more deportation. At no point will underlying causes like racism making it harder to get a job be addressed.
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Sep 6, 2021 20:49
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Esran posted:This seems like the likely outcome. They'll probably make sure that "gang" is defined to only include scary brown people gangs, while Hells Angels end up being classified as a "Motorcycle enthusiast association". Naa I'm pretty sure that biker gangs won't be excluded from any gang law, bikers are bothered by cops all the time here and have been so for the last 3 decades. That institutional inertia runs deep.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:00
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Speaking of bikers, there's a Hell's Angels clubhouse close to where I live. It used to have this really cool sculpture of the Alien in the back (I think made out of car/bike scrap), I think I came close to getting my rear end kicked once when I stopped to snap a picture of it and I quickly drew the attention of the people there who were NOT happy about some stranger taking pictures on their property. Too bad I can't find the picture, may have been on my old, broken, phone. Especially so since I think the sculpture has been moved.
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Sep 6, 2021 22:16
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Sep 7, 2021 16:19
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Back to the mines, slaves! Dig! Diiiig! It's insanely bizarre to have your "left-leaning" government tell us, that we're not a collective and should know our place. And if we can't find 37 hours of work, we can pick up cigarette stubs at the beach.
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Sep 7, 2021 16:21
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THE BAR posted:It's insanely bizarre to have your "left-leaning" government tell us, that we're not a collective and should know our place. And if we can't find 37 hours of work, we can pick up cigarette stubs at the beach. gently caress these people.
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Sep 7, 2021 17:39
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what is Swedish for decorum poisoning? Respektera oss som inte vill ta vaccin quote:Jag hävdar inte att jag har rätt. Jag vill bara inte bli förlöjligad eller bli kallad konspirationsteoretiker bara för att jag inte tror på massvaccinationslinjen. Jag kan personligen inte se att den har större vetenskapligt stöd än den linje jag tror på. “I’m laying down with dogs. Why am I waking up with fleas? How dare you point this out”
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Sep 8, 2021 15:59
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I’m honestly surprised we don’t have broader resistance to vaccines than we have considering the narcolepsy thing with the swine-flu vaccine. But yeah it’s dumb regardless. The vaccines so demonstrably work and help the healthcare system cope wherever they are widely deployed that it’s a no-brainier really.
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Sep 8, 2021 16:05
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The existence of crazy antivaxx people make more nuanced discussion of the issues with vaccines and how they're produced and distributed very difficult if not impossible. Taking a hardline stance does less harm. It's the same thing with immigration. We're not quite there with the culture wars, but getting close!
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Sep 8, 2021 20:24
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yeah tbh i get very uneasy when e.g. the guardian conflates the position "these vaccines were developed very quickly indeed and there have been incidents of long-term damage in the past" with the position "vaccines are evil and cause autism" one of these is a basically reasonable position with which you can argue, the other is emphatically not. i do not want the former to feel as though they have natural common cause with the latter.
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Sep 8, 2021 20:27
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Well, some fringe politician recently was recently standing outside a high school offering students money if they promised they would not take the vaccine. Also on the topic of offering teenagers money it seems Tybring-Gjedde recently tried to get a Muslim teenager 1000kr to take off her hijab at an FrP election stand or something.
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Sep 8, 2021 20:55
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what a cheapskate
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Sep 8, 2021 20:58
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah tbh i get very uneasy when e.g. the guardian conflates the position "these vaccines were developed very quickly indeed and there have been incidents of long-term damage in the past" with the position "vaccines are evil and cause autism"
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Sep 8, 2021 21:40
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norway: https://www.nrk.no/norge/guldvog-seier-vi-ma-vera-forebudde-pa-at-fleire-tusen-born-kan-hamna-pa-sjukehus-1.15640757 turns out having delta rip through every kid around is suboptimal, who knew sweden: open all the things!
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Sep 9, 2021 10:15
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Randarkman posted:Well, some fringe politician "Fringe politician" as in full-blown Nazi gently caress.
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Sep 9, 2021 10:48
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Swedish Sarah Palin and convicted libeller has an interesting proposal https://twitter.com/veolenes/status/1435872798036086788?s=21
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Sep 9, 2021 11:03
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