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Nitrox posted:it's a tracker that will also disable your car if you don't make payments on time. The only purpose of that device is to make your car easier to repossess. Don't go shopping at "buy here pay here" car lots, you're getting fleeced in more ways than you will ever understand. While true, the Hagerty article and terrible chop job was from a car purchased at a franchised Ram dealer.
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Sep 3, 2021 04:42
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Nitrox posted:it's a tracker that will also disable your car if you don't make payments on time. The only purpose of that device is to make your car easier to repossess. Don't go shopping at "buy here pay here" car lots, you're getting fleeced in more ways than you will ever understand. This was an official Toyota dealership, the car was a trade in. Edit: yeah, just to clarify, the picture someone posted isnt necessarily what the car I saw had, but its definitely making me feel better about walking away.
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Sep 3, 2021 04:44
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It's not just a Buy Here, Pay Here thing: my dad recently bought a new Acadia from Coulter GMC/etc in Phoenix, and it had one installed. He bought it without using financing (it's a good time to have bought a new truck in 2018 and only drive it 700 miles a year), and they "disabled" the GPS tracker and didn't charge for it, but wouldn't remove it. It took two business days for them to call and report a problem with the diagnostic systems in the SUV he owned after we removed it and pulled the battery + SIM. Otherwise, the Acadia is fine for someone 6'5" that needs a bunch more front legroom than a CX5 or anything else in the class offers.
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Sep 3, 2021 04:53
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Nthing the "it's not a BHPH" thing. I'm seeing listings on used cars at a local Kia dealership that have that bullshit. That aside, I've never seen any dealership advertise an out the door price as their front-line price. Most won't even give you an estimate of the OTD price online without getting your info / getting you to contact them. Agreed that admin fee sounds like doc fee, and that's steep enough that I suspect $799 is your local legal maximum. It's horseshit because you're paying them that to just loving file the paperwork that has to be filed to do the transaction anyway, but I've also never seen a dealer reduce or eliminate that fee. It's why you can't even start negotiating until you get an OTD price, and then just work off of that.
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Sep 3, 2021 05:38
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The car I'm about to buy has a loving $700 doc fee that I can't do anything about because the dealership is barely inside NJ instead of NY, where the legal maximum is $75 and you'd think they'd feel some kind of pressure to compete with NY dealerships on that but lol nope.
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Sep 3, 2021 12:22
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heffray posted:It's not just a Buy Here, Pay Here thing: my dad recently bought a new Acadia from Coulter GMC/etc in Phoenix, and it had one installed. He bought it without using financing (it's a good time to have bought a new truck in 2018 and only drive it 700 miles a year), and they "disabled" the GPS tracker and didn't charge for it, but wouldn't remove it. It took two business days for them to call and report a problem with the diagnostic systems in the SUV he owned after we removed it and pulled the battery + SIM. So they "disabled" that poo poo, and when you and/or your dad actually DID disable or remove it or whatever, the dealer called and were all like "hey we notice there is a problem with your car"?
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Sep 3, 2021 13:03
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Inner Light posted:13.3k out the door for a 2015 Ford Focus does not sound like a good deal at all. I don't have to pull up the KBB to have a visceral reaction from that you need to get calibrated to the current market if you are going to talk good/bad price in here man. plus, stick Focus holds value better because it does not have the DCT and that's what we're talking about A ton of bad dealers, including non BHPH dealers, install Kahu or similar and you need to make sure they A) don't charge for it and B) physically remove the device and the wiring splice at minimum. Repo is one application, there's other stuff too, though. Non BHPH dealers install it because they can put a $40 device on a car and charge it out to the customer as a $400 dollar line item. They won't disable the car if you miss payments because they have no idea whether you've missed payments or not.
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Sep 3, 2021 14:00
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We're going to be buying a van soon, and I've got it narrowed down to two. Figured I'd toss it in here. We're looking at either a used 2018 Pacficia, somewhere between medium and top trim, and a new Kia Carnival, either LXS or EX. We're leaning Pacifica right now because it's anywhere from $5k to $9k cheaper for what appears to be roughly the same, or even more features. Any particularly compelling reason to consider one over the other?
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Sep 3, 2021 15:00
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The Wonder Weapon posted:We're going to be buying a van soon, and I've got it narrowed down to two. Figured I'd toss it in here. We're looking at either a used 2018 Pacficia, somewhere between medium and top trim, and a new Kia Carnival, either LXS or EX. We're leaning Pacifica right now because it's anywhere from $5k to $9k cheaper for what appears to be roughly the same, or even more features. Any particularly compelling reason to consider one over the other? I don't know Kia's track record with new models, but I believe this is the first year of the Carnival, so it's probably a buyer beware type situation. I can't speak to the 2018 model directly, but we have a 2019 Pacifica (Touring) and so far, it's doing great. The biggest problem so far was some hard shifting in the transmission around 40mph occasionally. We're just hoping that doesn't translate to long term transmission issues (I'm expecting some sort of catastrophe eventually because FCA, but we'll just see how that turns out). It's comfortable for everybody, absolutely cavernous with the stow and go seats down, and has enough oomph to do anything you need of it.
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Sep 3, 2021 15:40
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heffray posted:It's not just a Buy Here, Pay Here thing: my dad recently bought a new Acadia from Coulter GMC/etc in Phoenix, and it had one installed. He bought it without using financing (it's a good time to have bought a new truck in 2018 and only drive it 700 miles a year), and they "disabled" the GPS tracker and didn't charge for it, but wouldn't remove it. It took two business days for them to call and report a problem with the diagnostic systems in the SUV he owned after we removed it and pulled the battery + SIM. Jesus. How do you avoid dealing with poo poo like this/guaranteeing dealers aren't loving with your car?
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Sep 3, 2021 15:59
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I haven't seen a real tacoma vin to put money on in 2 weeks and now the dealer is saying there's a 10 person waitlist to get a temporary vin which will be 8-12 (maybe) weeks from delivery. every toyota dealer has this awful automatic website that puts sold tacomas up automatically when they hit in transit status before they are manually taken down. so it's impossible to know what is real without calling every dealer, which I've done, a lot, and they are all saying the same thing I see ram 1500s on the lot. rams have the best review scores (are they all shills??). should i just buy a drat ram or a ranger or something? I mean I like the new rams enough but they've always been rust buckets I don't know what to do anymore. Maybe a beater but ugh. Would it make sense at all to lease a different brand for 2 or 3 years and hope to switch back to toyota at the end of the lease?
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Sep 3, 2021 16:06
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IOwnCalculus posted:That aside, I've never seen any dealership advertise an out the door price as their front-line price. Most won't even give you an estimate of the OTD price online without getting your info / getting you to contact them. Yeah, I was 100% expecting them to add on stuff the price but I figured it would be upsells and bullshit warranty stuff. In any case I explicitly told them all I cared was how much I paid out the door. The manager (he eventually did materialize and was not just an abstract concept) was real adamant that the admin/doc fee was a legal requirement and he couldnt bring it down or he risked a class action fee (lol jfc no wonder Carvana is making bank).
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Sep 3, 2021 16:09
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ethanol posted:I haven't seen a real tacoma vin to put money on in 2 weeks and now the dealer is saying there's a 10 person waitlist to get a temporary vin which will be 8-12 (maybe) weeks from delivery. every toyota dealer has this awful automatic website that puts sold tacomas up automatically when they hit in transit status before they are manually taken down. so it's impossible to know what is real without calling every dealer, which I've done, a lot, and they are all saying the same thing if you need a truck right now, 24/29 month lease would make sense
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Sep 3, 2021 16:22
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Residency Evil posted:Jesus. How do you avoid dealing with poo poo like this/guaranteeing dealers aren't loving with your car? Does anyone have a good answer to this? These horrible immobilizer/GPS units haphazardly spliced into vital electronics are the biggest thing stopping me from financing a car.
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Sep 3, 2021 16:26
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Been a few pages since I posted and got a lot of really good advice. Yesterday/last night I closed the deal on a '21 Jetta; my first new car ever. Love it so far; thanks for the input everyone!
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Sep 3, 2021 16:34
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DildenAnders posted:Does anyone have a good answer to this? These horrible immobilizer/GPS units haphazardly spliced into vital electronics are the biggest thing stopping me from financing a car. Why does it matter if you are financing it? If you are buying it from a dealership many of them will as a matter of corporate policy gently caress with the car. Should be illegal IMO but lol if lawmakers would ever care about an issue like this without a serious lobby effort from.....???
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Sep 3, 2021 16:34
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DildenAnders posted:Does anyone have a good answer to this? These horrible immobilizer/GPS units haphazardly spliced into vital electronics are the biggest thing stopping me from financing a car. you are getting confused here BHPH dealers splice locator/immobilizer units in to their cars so that they can recover the vehicle when you stop making payments. This is because they are buy-here-pay-here, meaning that the joint is an integrated vehicle sale and finance operation underwriting its own loans. The BHPH dealer is your lienholder. Normal dealers splice GPS systems in to their cars as a nominal customer feature in that they offer things like geofencing, remote monitoring, vehicle health reports, etc. (Frequently it's the same unit but the functionality is different). They do this because they can charge you money for the device as a service. When you buy and finance a car from a normal dealer, the financing goes through a bank or other reputable financial institution, which is your lienholder. The dealer does not give a gently caress about your loan status since they've already been paid by the bank, and the bank has no access to the device. You still don't want the device, but if you go to your local Ford dealer and buy a used Toyota Corolla off their lot, finance it through Ally, and then stop making payments, nobody's going to immobilize your car. And you can get normal bank financing on a car without a device, that is generally the more common way to do things. Residency Evil posted:Jesus. How do you avoid dealing with poo poo like this/guaranteeing dealers aren't loving with your car? The dealer is obligated to put the device on the Monroney, if it's a new vehicle. You can demand that the dealer remove the device, but you will need to confirm that they have done so. Or you can get an independent mechanic to look at it to confirm.
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Sep 3, 2021 16:53
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Also, you can be pretty sure that a non-BHPH lot wont be using the immobilizer function because it means extra effort for them to install the relay. And, more importantly, the tracker companies charge a heavy fee to the dealership for remote-disable features and fine grained tracking. BHPH lots gladly pay that fee, because theyre the kind of scum who hear about a give me money or your car wont start button and start seeing dollar signs, and they know theyll pass the cost on to their The reason you dont want that poo poo in your car is the hackjob wiring dealerships will use to install it, and the consumer privacy issues from the tracking company selling your location to anybody whos buying.
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Sep 3, 2021 17:57
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Space Gopher posted:
By financing a car I mean going to a dealer, since it's the only reason I would go to one. But yeah I'm more concerned about the lovely wiring and potential horrible electrical issues that might come as a result, regardless of the intention of the device. Is there any semi-reliable way to get dealers to remove those things (or never install them in the first place)? Is it like a universal practice or can you find dealers that won't immediately chop up the harnesses on the cars they sell? I've been thinking about leaving the sub $5k used car market and buying a newer used car from a dealer (and I would have to finance it) but I would not at all be comfortable with one of those tumors installed. I've heard too many horror stories from my mechanic about them.
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Sep 3, 2021 18:39
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yes, step 1) ask the dealer if there is a device installed 2) if they say yes, insist they remove it and 3) take the car to your mechanic to ensure it's been done. lots of dealers also do not do this kind of poo poo. you are making a mountain out of this. yes this is annoying but provided you have a trusted mechanic, which you do, it is very easy to ensure that the issue is resolved.
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Sep 3, 2021 18:41
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In this climate, the answer is probably CarMax or Carvana or similar. Normally, they charge a healthy markup for their no-haggle schtick, but I'm pretty sure they're selling cars at basically cost right now just to keep market share. I just sold my off lease car to CarMax and they gave me basically what they're listing similar examples for on their website.
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Sep 3, 2021 18:46
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The dealer is obligated to put the device on the Monroney, if it's a new vehicle. You can demand that the dealer remove the device, but you will need to confirm that they have done so. Or you can get an independent mechanic to look at it to confirm. But then you get the joys of finding out that your brand new car had one installed previously that you never knew about because it was never part of the negotiation. To the dealer's credit, I didn't discover the evidence until years later when I was looking under the dash for some dashcam wiring (and it never did cause any problems), but I was still pissed the gently caress off that the one and only brand new car I've ever bought, had been getting wiring mods before it even had a title.
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Sep 3, 2021 21:15
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Sounds like something to specifically ask the mechanic to check for next time I get a PPI
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Sep 4, 2021 02:22
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Speaking of lovely dealership practices, Id indicated to the dealer that Id buy the car for $X and he was like well thats too low but Ill check with my manager but itd go over better with some show of commitment. So he takes out a copy of the cars quote (not even an updated quote with the price I wanted) and wrote down I will buy and take home today., and asked me to sign it. I looked at him like he was insane. He insisted that oh, it doesnt actually mean youll buy it. He eventually dropped it, but what the gently caress.
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Sep 4, 2021 13:31
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Explosionface posted:I don't know Kia's track record with new models, but I believe this is the first year of the Carnival, so it's probably a buyer beware type situation. That's good to know. Although I don't think I've ever owned an FCA vehicle, so I was unaware they have a reputation for maintenance needs. We did find two that were the same price, a Touring L (mid tier) with 35k miles and a Limited (top tier) with 50k miles. 50k miles scared me off a little, but if I'm going to drive it for 4 years/15k a year, I'd end up with 95k and 110k respectively, and at that point, is there a meaningful difference? I'd expect you're going to encounter all the same major repair milestones regardless of which one you buy in this scenario.
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Sep 4, 2021 15:20
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Proposed Budget: 25-27k? Would like to keep payments $400 or lower but room for flexibility. Plan to put about 3-4K down. New or Used: New Body Style: Hatchback sedan How will you be using the car? City dweller - using for errands & weekend/road trips. Not a commuter car. What aspects are most important to you? First new car purchase - looking for reliability long term. Considering Honda or Toyota but open to suggestions. Would like a back up cam & good mileage as this will be a road trip car. Ive tried the used car market and found it very overwhelming. Since I have good credit and a steady job, Id like to purchase new. What are the best options for financing? Dealer or bank? Havent done any test drives, just want to go in understanding the whole process beforehand since this is my first time purchasing new.
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Sep 7, 2021 18:54
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Now is a terrible time to buy a new car. You're best financing option is usually with your current bank, you can let the dealer try to beat their rate if you want. I'm very partial to my credit union when it comes to financing things. You should buy a Toyota Prius. I'd stretch my budget just a touch and get the XLE trim, but I care about stuff like that. The LE comes in budget. The process of buying a car is overwhelming and there's a lot to talk about. Do you have any specific questions?
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Sep 7, 2021 19:27
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liz posted:Proposed Budget: 25-27k? Would like to keep payments $400 or lower but room for flexibility. Plan to put about 3-4K down. Finance budgets in a nutshell: normal people should finance for 2-3 years, maybe 4. Financing companies make their money in 5+ and will press you to go longer if you let them wind you in with talking about your monthly note only. Exception: there are a lot of manufacturers deals lately for 0%, take those for however long they give them to you. Free money. Don't finance longer than you plan to keep the car. You can close it out and it's usually fine but that's annoying and can be leverage against you in future negotiations on finance rate or car tradeins. If you finance more than 3-4 years, make sure it's because you have a financial investment that you can make that will beat the interest for the entire term of the loan. You gotta be real sure about your shots if that's your excuse to take 5 year loan for example. If someone tells you what the stock markets gonna be doing in 2026, don't trust them but that's another discussion. The catch here that I always like to say is life is messy. If a long loan let's you restructure your budget to enable other smart, long term financial decisions I won't tell at you for that. Ex. Let's you make smarter retirement investments, put more down in a home etc. Ok so all that said, your budget in the average 4 year loan will get you a note $440-475. If you're good with that, then your budgets fine. Else dial your budget back a bit. If you need to take a longer loan, strongly consider what you are doing and why you are doing it.
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Sep 7, 2021 19:36
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Prius is the right choice. Sedans and hatchbacks are different things. Good news: backup cameras have been federally mandated for a couple years now. the TLDR on financing is that there's no way anyone can sit her and tell you that either option is Correct. You should be prepared to BYO financing - this involves going to your bank/CU to get a new car loan offer. You will have two types of options from the dealer - the first is "captive" finance, which is financing from the manufacturer (eg Toyota Motor Credit, Inc is the lienholder). Captive financing is frequently, though not always, subsidized, in particular to move examples of slow selling cars. So you might find, for instance, that if you go in to your local Volkswagen dealer that Volkswagen Credit International's rate on a Tiguan is 2.9%/60 (because Tiguans sell decently well) and the rate on a Passat is 0.9%/72 (because nobody wants a loving Passat). In most cases, it is unlikely that your bank will beat a subsidized captive finance offering. but the subsidized offer may be in lieu of cash back. The other thing the dealer will do is offer you a very normal loan from a normal and reputable bank at a normal interest rate. This may or may not be better rate and terms than what you can get from your bank. In some cases, the dealer may be willing to discount price on a car because they get a kickback if they sell you the loan. You should consider your BYO financing against any options the dealer offers and pick whatever's cheapest.
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Sep 7, 2021 19:37
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zedprime posted:Based on your financing statement I think your budget ought to contract a bit. I'll get to that in a minute. Financing is use whoever gives you the best rate and terms. Shotgun out requests to your favorite banks and credit unions before you go shopping, take the best with you, and ask the dealer to take it or beat it when getting ready to sign. You need not mention it till you've got a price dialed in. Don't let anyone lead a conversation with a monthly note. Financing comes after price discussions. sixty months at current low rates is a perfectly reasonable new car loan to sign up for
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Sep 7, 2021 19:38
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zedprime posted:
Hard disagree here. It's not 1985 anymore with 12% interest rates and cars depreciating to zero in 4 years. Used car values are very high right now and will probably stay that way for at least the next 2 to 3 years for sure. A sub 4% 60 month note is perfectly fine, and I can make arguments for 72 month notes on cars over 50K. I'm not a fan of 84, 96, or 108 month auto loans. edit: I am not debt averse at all, if debt is something that bothers you do whatever you feel is right. skipdogg fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Sep 7, 2021 |
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Sep 7, 2021 19:41
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:sixty months at current low rates is a perfectly reasonable new car loan to sign up for
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Sep 7, 2021 19:45
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Prius seems like a good choice. My personal choice for myself with those requirements would be a Toyota Corolla XSE Hatch.
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Sep 7, 2021 19:45
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toyota beat other lenders for me on interest rate on the tacoma a few months ago. speaking of which I've had 3 dealers call me today and offer me a trd off road and then call 10 minutes later and apologize it's already been sold. I dunno if these are low effort bait and switch attempts but ffs my sanity decreases every time
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Sep 7, 2021 19:45
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Let me just reiterate: gently caress. This. Market.
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Sep 7, 2021 23:50
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Just curious-hows the market for leases? I assume those have been priced accordingly as well? Or are they not available and being sold instead?
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Sep 8, 2021 00:26
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nwin posted:Just curious-how’s the market for leases? I assume those have been priced accordingly as well? Or are they not available and being sold instead? The dealer books a lease as a sale, they dont care how the move the car, just that it moves. The leasing company buys the vehicle from the dealer. Leases are a mixed bag right now. Residual values are high, which is good, but theres not much in the way of rebates or subsidized lease rates. I leased an Expedition back in January and got a smoking deal on it. No way I could duplicate that deal right now. Ive got 27 months left to figure out replacement or if I just buy it at the end of the lease
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Sep 8, 2021 00:41
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skipdogg posted:The dealer books a lease as a sale, they dont care how the move the car, just that it moves. The leasing company buys the vehicle from the dealer. Is your buy-out price pre-arranged or can they adjust that when your lease is up? Say you leased a Tacoma in 2019 before the pandemic and it expires in 2022. Can they blast the purchase price through the roof since trucks are selling for a premium or did the lessor /lessee agree on the price already?
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Sep 8, 2021 01:04
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Buy out price is set when the lease is signed, so some people with leases ending in the current market are getting a nice return on buying it out and immediately trading in at 2021 value. Market is weird, with the possible exception of new cars that are actually in stock. You won't get much of a discount, but you're also not paying over MSRP for a 2 year old car.
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Sep 8, 2021 01:23
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I just bought a car. RIP.
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Sep 8, 2021 22:43
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