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I want a pony for Christmas and I'll accept up to 17 innocent people dying in exchange.
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Sep 3, 2021 08:31
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*raises hand* I'm in, take me now
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Sep 3, 2021 08:35
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alf_pogs posted:we can save apocalyptic language for the bushfire season tbh Is September not bushfire season now? freebooter posted:In WA/Qld/SA/Tas/NT, when we tell them to "open up," we are effectively asking them to regain a single freedom (travel) in exchange for sacrificing others - they're going to have to accept stuff like venue capacity reductions, masks, and probably the occasional lockdown. That's on top of accepting low levels of death and high levels of illness. I doubt many of them have the appetite to be isolated from half of Australia and from the rest of the world forever, but I can see why it might be appealing to try to maintain COVID-zero through travel and quarantine restrictions for another year or two, and I can definitely see why it would be appealing to try to maintain it until it looks like vaccination rates have well and truly plateaued around 85-90% instead of at the arbitrary 70% figure Scott and Gladys are clinging to. As a WA resident I can tell you, whilst people would like to travel, a large number of people in WA have only ever gone to Bali and that's it, and they've easily swapped out Bali for Carnarvon and Broome or some other hot part of the state who are booked out for months on end. All the tourism has either been swamped by locals who can't go anywhere else, or they shut up shop last year and can't shrink further. WA is huge. Telling us we can't travel somewhere is paltry, we can travel in WA. This state is bonkers, you can travel from snow to reefs to giant forrests to desert to the tropics. It's Victoria, NSW and Queensland rolled into one. Yes there are a number of residents who want to see family and friends, but they also don't want to be stuck in an endless lockdown nightmare ala NSW. We're very happy to sit behind our Nullabor of death border until we're sure enough of us have the vaccine that we could perhaps segue into open borders with an almost normal life uninterrupted. We've got a good life here. No amount of 'but you can't travel' is going to gently caress with that. For most of human history people didn't go further than the next few towns over, world travel is a luxury, not a requirement of living.
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Sep 3, 2021 08:40
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How innocent? Like babies innocent, average not poo poo head adult innocent, or SAS "innocent"?
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Sep 3, 2021 08:40
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there is no amount of lives worth taking away my bi-daily trip to coffee club
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Sep 3, 2021 09:20
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I got curious, so I looked up how much each state could potentially lose in tourist money if they decided to close their border permanently and it was a lot less than I would have guessed. Australian tourist spending reached 3.1% of GDP in 2018-19 pre pandemic, and then slumped to 2.5% in the 2019-2020 financial year. In the latest figures QLD is at 3.1%, WA is at 2.0%, the NT is at 3.2%, and TAS is at 4.5%. You'd expect states with an above average tourist GDP to lose a lot of it by freezing out interstate tourists, but some of the shortfall is going to be made up by locals who can't leave the state. As a point of comparison the estimated ~1B a week cost of the current NSW lockdown is ~8% of the NSW GDP. If state premiers are looking at similar projected costs for post border reopening lockdowns, you can see why they aren't keen to do it given the federal government has promised to stop subsidising lockdowns once we hit vaccination targets.
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Sep 3, 2021 09:22
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As a WA resident who bought a trailer and is spending 3 weeks in the northwest corner of the state this checks out The caravan park at Coral bay is bonkers busy, and it's not even close to school holidays.
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Sep 3, 2021 09:26
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thatbastardken posted:they can pick a side and stick with it No one has said they want to travel for a holiday, the main reason anyone in this thread wants to be vaccinated and travel is family reasons. Asking people to pick a border is not recognizing for many rural communities services do not exist on their side and they need to cross for highly valid reasons like health or work. My opinion on what is realistic and also some ideas for mitigation to protect immucompromised as best we can is further up the thread. I dont give one iota of a gently caress about antivaxxers but I recognize outside of that this is a complex issue and that at some point even if keep WA locked up forever there will be Covid escape into the community at some point. And it will spread. WA and QLD will not escape a large Delta outbreak.
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Sep 3, 2021 09:27
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:No one has said they want to travel for a holiday, the main reason anyone in this thread wants to be vaccinated and travel is family reasons. Asking people to pick a border is not recognizing for many rural communities services do not exist on their side and they need to cross for highly valid reasons like health or work. That sounds suspiciously like a threat. We stopped the boats, surely we can stop the cars, I would even support a tow back policy for any who would dare try to cross into our covid free states. I think it might be time to build a wall around victoria and new south wales.
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Sep 3, 2021 09:32
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So we are swapping Pfizer doses with Singapore, and Pfizer Doses with United Kingdom What is the cost for the United Kingdom Doses ? Everyone is reporting it, but no one is actually listing what we are swapping for. For a nasty thought, is this Australia getting vaccinations now and having to pay them back in December ? Is this why there is muttering about the election being called when Parliament is back in October ?
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Sep 3, 2021 11:16
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evilbastard posted:For a nasty thought, is this Australia getting vaccinations now and having to pay them back in December ? Is this why there is muttering about the election being called when Parliament is back in October ? Yeah sounds like it. The Guardian posted:Australia will return the doses from its own supply at a later date when the UK is looking to bolster its vaccination of children. Source yoloer420 fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Sep 3, 2021 |
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Sep 3, 2021 11:26
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:No one has said they want to travel for a holiday, the main reason anyone in this thread wants to be vaccinated and travel is family reasons. Asking people to pick a border is not recognizing for many rural communities services do not exist on their side and they need to cross for highly valid reasons like health or work. Yeah, even McGowan and Palasczuk weren't arguing COVID zero forever before the NSW outbreak, and they aren't arguing for it now. If you can drive deaths and hospitalisations down to a level in the same ballpark as the flu, you can no longer justify keeping families separated across interstate and international borders anymore. We live in a global, multicultural society. It was ethically justifiable when the cost would've been tens of thousands of deaths; it won't be in the future. (But I also think they're totally justified in reopening the borders as slowly, carefully and as at their own pace as they want.) And like you say, even if you decide that indefinite COVID-zero is something you want to do, every day brings the risk of a Delta outbreak. It was one thing to keep COVID out with a less virulent strain when the whole nation was COVID-free and it was only air and sea freight you had to worry about. Road and rail freight has a much larger amount of human interaction, and when the eastern states are recording thousands of cases a day (which will only increase) it just isn't going to be feasible. Delta only has to be lucky once, and no premier is going to stick to a COVID-zero policy if it gets its hooks into a well-vaccinated state and weeks of lockdown fail to slow the spread. WA, Queensland, Tasmania, SA, and the NT are in an incredibly good position and can be rightfully proud of being among the best places in the world to be during the pandemic. And they definitely shouldn't let Morrison and Berejiklian's failures bully them into opening up prematurely. But they should and will eventually open up.
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Sep 3, 2021 12:03
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Konomex posted:Is September not bushfire season now? I was born and raised in WA. I think not being able to see my family for two years is a small price to pay for their ongoing safety and 2019-esque freedom while I've spent what feels like a million years inside my one-bedroom apartment in Melbourne. But I would like to see them again eventually.
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Sep 3, 2021 12:06
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freebooter posted:I was born and raised in WA. I think not being able to see my family for two years is a small price to pay for their ongoing safety and 2019-esque freedom while I've spent what feels like a million years inside my one-bedroom apartment in Melbourne. But I would like to see them again eventually.
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Sep 3, 2021 12:50
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yoloer420 posted:Yeah sounds like it. Oh man, Yeah there's gonna be an election for sure in 2021. I can't really see Scott waiting because he'd of had to have traded his vaccine supply away by 2022 leading to more shortages.
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Sep 3, 2021 13:04
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Anidav posted:Oh man, The vaccine supply isnt looking bad going forward into 2022, they are swapping some from the 40 million doses that are in the pipeline for a bit more momentum now (Poland's Pfizer was going to expire soon and they didnt have enough demand at the moment, maybe UK is kinda similar?). I dont think lack of supply will happen even with those fuckwits doing the ordering. https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-government-response/australias-vaccine-agreements The only reason I could see for an election this year is timing it to coincide with international border travel restrictions lifting.
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Sep 3, 2021 14:03
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norp posted:As a WA resident who bought a trailer and is spending 3 weeks in the northwest corner of the state this checks out Anecdotally a lot of grey nomads ran over here when the borders were open because they could see how well WA had been handling it, or how lucky we've been (pick your poison there), and just how large WA was to bum around in for the next year or two. As for border towns, it doesn't super apply to WA except for a few families waaay up north with NT, and so far NT is doing fine and we're cool with them. If it comes down to it, we could annex them? I'm sure they'd be cool with that, or not. CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:at some point even if keep WA locked up forever there will be Covid escape into the community at some point. And it will spread. WA and QLD will not escape a large Delta outbreak. I will say this for the WA government, they learn from previous outbreaks. Hotel quarantine escape? Reduce the intake and spread residents out further to avoid airborne spread. Boats spread it? Next boat gets specialists in proper PPE taken direct to hospital and quarantine via specialist vehicles that are then sanitised. Truck driver tests positive? New truck driver testing regimes and other things I haven't looked into too much yet because it happened today. Each time we lock down our border protections do get stronger, and unlike other states we'll shut down at the hint that there might be unknown community spread. QLD managed to get back to donut days and they share a border with NSW, I don't see why unchecked Covid in the WA community is an inevitable outcome before total vaccination coverage is achieved. We don't have lockdown fatigue like Victoria, and unlike NSW we don't let people go chill out and party at the beach, our fines for breaching lockdown rules are severe. We've put people in prison. The WA government is not loving around because they know if we get a large outbreak people will be dying all over the place. freebooter posted:I was born and raised in WA. I think not being able to see my family for two years is a small price to pay for their ongoing safety and 2019-esque freedom while I've spent what feels like a million years inside my one-bedroom apartment in Melbourne. But I would like to see them again eventually. Which brings me to my next point, because my brother lives in the rear end in a top hat of NSW, that we will eventually open up, but not before we are good and ready and loving vaccinated. Not when Sydney is at 70 or 80%, not when Scomo thinks its a good idea. Maybe not even when we're at 70% of 16+, I'd like to see children receive vaccines before then because I have young children and I don't feel like sacrificing them on some experiment because Morrison wants to look like he accomplished something and NSW can't elect a competent Premier. I would feel monstrously awful if we opened up and I had to hear about someone else's child, let alone my own, dying of Covid when we could have waited a little longer to vaccinate them. I would like to see my family again, but my bro doesn't want to visit at the cost of his nieces and nephews.
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Sep 3, 2021 15:39
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They’ve done everything except (and they aren’t alone) prepare the hospital system adequately for an outbreak. We’ve all only had two years to get our hospitals ready. Oh well, what else could have been done?
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Sep 3, 2021 15:55
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realbez posted:They’ve done everything except (and they aren’t alone) prepare the hospital system adequately for an outbreak. We’ve all only had two years to get our hospitals ready. Oh well, what else could have been done? From what I've heard from people in the health industry in WA, there's a bottleneck of training positions in the hospitals, and the funding hasn't been boosted to the required level in some time. I'm not sure two years is enough to get there, though there are all those UK nurses they hired? They did open up... 117 new beds this year? I have no idea how much capacity that represents other than 117 patients extra at a time for various reasons. I just feel in my utter layman opinion that they need to build some more public hospitals and staff them to full capacity. Every time they open a new hospital we seem to shut one but every year our population goes up up up.
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Sep 3, 2021 16:54
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Just to put some numbers to the question of whether states should open up to COVID: https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination-outcomes.aspx King County in the USA had 20 COVID deaths over the last 30 days... in fully vaccinated people. It has roughly half the population of Queensland. So we're looking at around 500 deaths per year in Queensland just for fully vaccinated people. Plus 4x as many people who just get hospitalized. Again only looking at fully vaccinated people. And COVID hospitalization stays are quite long. Plus a lot of those people who get hospitalized and some of those who don't will be getting long COVID. Plus all those sick days. Plus all those people staying home because they're worried about COVID. Queensland's record flu deaths was 264. I think this is essentially the ceiling when it comes to best cases, the basically everyone gets vaccinated and nothing goes wrong scenario. I left out any unvaccinated deaths. We could potentially get lower with restrictions in place, but in that case you're trading the restrictive border for restrictions on your actual daily life which seems counter-intuitive to me. I have no personal stake in this because everyone I know is stuck here with me in loving NSW. Just hoping other states don't jump into the same situation we're staring down here.
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Sep 3, 2021 21:16
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Yeah masks and distancing are definitely going to be a way of life in NSW/Vic even after our gross reopening mass suicide - maybe until we get a vaccination specifically catered to Delta. Or maybe just this is what life looks like now! No law of the universe saying mass gatherings of homogenous entities doesn't have to be a risky prospect.
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Sep 3, 2021 21:39
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The Age: Victoria’s hospitals are on the brink of collapse Also The Age: Premier, let my people go! 
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Sep 3, 2021 23:33
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Schrodinger's state.
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Sep 3, 2021 23:47
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https://twitter.com/squigglyrick/status/1433903203632902144?s=21 oPeN tHe PlAyGrOuNdS
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Sep 3, 2021 23:58
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Moses parting the red tape sea to lead our people to the promised playground. Are discord goons playing anything together? Feel like getting wasted tonight and playing the forbidden video games.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:16
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Konomex posted:From what I've heard from people in the health industry in WA, there's a bottleneck of training positions in the hospitals, and the funding hasn't been boosted to the required level in some time. I'm not sure two years is enough to get there, though there are all those UK nurses they hired? They did open up... 117 new beds this year? I have no idea how much capacity that represents other than 117 patients extra at a time for various reasons. As a front line health worker in WA I feel I need to call you a delusional fuckwit who is talking out of your rear end on the internet to feel make yourself feel better about a garbage Premier who has lied from day one. We have had almost 2 year to prepare for this and he has done nothing. We are completely unprepared. Apart from the PPE issue we are basical we were at Marst 2020. McGowan has done nothing, he has made a lot of stuff worse The delta will have an outbreak here, you cannot politics your way out of a biological problem. By the way if any WA people have been thinking about it St John is always recuirting vollies for the country, patient transport officers and event health officers in the city. Anyone is welcome and we could really use the help.
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Sep 4, 2021 00:23
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Launchpad McQuack posted:As a front line health worker in WA I feel I need to call you a delusional fuckwit who is talking out of your rear end on the internet to feel make yourself feel better about a garbage Premier who has lied from day one. Not talking out my rear end about the beds, it's a literal press release. As a front line health worker in WA what exactly is the issue? Because my sister in law is a nurse and she laid that out for me. News article outlining the shortage of graduate and training positions for new nurses which was published July of this year. News article outlining WA government creating 400 new graduate teacher nursing positions in March of this year. And here is an article from last month about the governments incentive program to get 200 junior Doctors into the hospital system from the UK and Ireland. It's a bit late in the game for my preferences, but I'm not sure you can say it's nothing, and I don't think you can solve systematic training issues overnight. You can hire staff from overseas to immediately bulk up trained staff and then use those staff to help open more training positions, but you can't just open training positions without mentoring staff to oversee the trainees and graduates. quote:In a bid to attract even more health workers, the government has announced new incentives for international midwives, nurses and doctors, including paying for their hotel quarantine and flights. Konomex fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Sep 4, 2021 01:34
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Konomex posted:Each time we lock down our border protections do get stronger, and unlike other states we'll shut down at the hint that there might be unknown community spread. QLD managed to get back to donut days and they share a border with NSW, I don't see why unchecked Covid in the WA community is an inevitable outcome before total vaccination coverage is achieved. This isn't true; Victoria usually let it get to a handful of cases before shutting down (which is still way ahead of NSW) but every other state and territory plus NZ also operates on a hair trigger model. (And rightly so). So far that hasn't worked for the ACT and NZ. It's certainly possible that WA will get to total vaccination coverage (however you define that) without Delta seeping in, and it's also possible that it might manage to quickly contain an outbreak like Queensland did, but I think the latter involved a good deal of luck. But as McGowan has said, it's only a matter of months anyway. WA's borders are not still going to be closed once vaccination rates plateau, because attempting to maintain a COVID-free existence at that point - which can and eventually will be irrevocably compromised by a Delta seepage any given day - is more trouble than it's worth.
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Sep 4, 2021 01:58
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Hopefully there’s just enough stress on the health system that anti vaxxers with covid get triaged into the hallway while the ICUs are saved for people who did the right thing.
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Sep 4, 2021 02:22
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https://twitter.com/wabzqem/status/1433262733428813833?s=20
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Sep 4, 2021 02:45
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https://twitter.com/sarahinthesen8/status/1433965275003572225?s=20 Craig Kelly needs to get covid and die already
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Sep 4, 2021 02:50
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gay picnic defence posted:Hopefully there’s just enough stress on the health system that anti vaxxers with covid get triaged into the hallway while the ICUs are saved for people who did the right thing. This is the only fair way to do it.
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Sep 4, 2021 03:00
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Centusin posted:
Guarantee he’s fully vaxed and will be fine.
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Sep 4, 2021 03:09
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slorb posted:As a point of comparison the estimated ~1B a week cost of the current NSW lockdown is ~8% of the NSW GDP.
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Sep 4, 2021 03:27
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Centusin posted:https://twitter.com/sarahinthesen8/status/1433965275003572225?s=20 wow i get why mundine called this guy a oval office
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Sep 4, 2021 03:30
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Halo14 posted:Guarantee he’s fully vaxed and will be fine. Alan Jones definitely. I reckon Craig Kelly might just be dumb enough to believe his own bullshit. Hopefully anyway!
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Sep 4, 2021 03:31
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I keep getting the spam messages about packages to collect but never any from Craig Kelly
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Sep 4, 2021 03:39
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Craig Kelly seems to me to be a true believer. Of the worst kind. The kind that will take time out of a family get together to lecture his grandchildren about the evils of the "woke agenda" after he sees a muslim character on a cartoon they were watching.
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Sep 4, 2021 03:47
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You ever have one of those moments where you wonder if one of the times in the past when you maybe could have died (that time you had a very high fever, or fell off your bike and hit your head, or passed out on a hot day) you actually did die, and went to hell, but you didn't notice because hell starts slowly? That's how I feel living in a world that collectively looks at COVID and thinks "better live with it". From day 1 the potential existed to eradicate it. We just needed to work together. Most of the planet has spent months in some form of lockdown over the last 1.5 years, and even when not in lockdown people have been under self imposed restrictions that have made life miserable. It could have been over in a couple of weeks. With coordinated action, this virus could have been confined to a few reference samples in biosafety labs by now. It still could. There is not a single reason it couldn't that doesn't come back to "we can't persuade everyone to work together". Depending on the context everyone can mean "all world leaders", "all states within each country" or just "all people who would be required to observe strict restrictions for a couple of months", but if we as a species were capable of securing that cooperation at each of those levels successively, we'd have beaten this virus long ago. And the most depressing flavour of this feeling is watching a number of Australian politicians giddy with excitement that they can finally wriggle out of the arm-twisting position that the public had them in that required them to do the right thing, and instead force us to endure them doing the wrong thing. They finally let the virus get so out of control here that they've made all of us give up and accept that not only will Australia, New Zealand et al. never persuade other countries to switch from their bad policies to good policies, but we're going to stop doing the good policies ourselves.
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Sep 4, 2021 03:56
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That's cool. Anyway the new more immune-evading and virulent strain is here https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/09/1098942
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Sep 4, 2021 04:14
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