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Which should I play as for the Generals Challenge? [Pick 3] This poll is closed. |
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| Laser |
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60 | 14.74% |
| Air Power |
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34 | 8.35% |
| Super Weapons |
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49 | 12.04% |
| Tanks |
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26 | 6.39% |
| Infantry |
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39 | 9.58% |
| Nuclear Power |
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68 | 16.71% |
| Toxin |
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48 | 11.79% |
| Stealth |
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42 | 10.32% |
| Explosives |
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41 | 10.07% |
| Total: | 189 votes | ||
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Loxbourne posted:Generals had cutting-edge graphics when it come out but was less than stable. I remember my teenage fury when I carefully checked the list of compatible graphics cards before I first installed it...only to discover the first patch quietly removed that entry from the Readme and the game refused to even start!
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Sep 5, 2021 18:11
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Redeye Flight posted:The takeover of Baikonur is what I would call the second TRULY outrageous event in Generals' campaign, after only the Three Gorges Dam bit in China 3. Baikonur is extremely important to Russia and Kazakhstan both, and straight up conquering it to launch ICBMs is way more of a thing than even the terrorist bombing of Beijing that opens the entire campaign. That was plausible enough as I can in fact believe that a nuke could be lost or sold and smuggled into a major urban center. The Three Gorges Dam bit was something China would NEVER do, but that at least was a purely China affair. This is basically declaring that the GLA is a nation-state and has pretty much declared war on the world. It's the kind of utterly delusional stuff you saw being attributed to ISIL a few years ago. The Three Gorges mission would have worked so much better IMO if you were given the goal to defend the drat and it was a fakeout and made impossible by the GLA troops on the other river side blowing it - as they will anyway if you don't do it. Funnily enough, this would actually give some subtle foreshadowing to the final mission: The unspoken policy of the PRC in regards to the Three Gorges Dam is that (due to the absolutely catastrophic results it would have) they'd consider someone popping the dam the equivalent to a nuclear strike against a major population center. And that they would apply the same kind of response to either. I kinda liked the intro to the final China mission because it low-key (and likely unintentionally) shows that the Chinese have actually learned throughout the campaign. Yes, they get ambushed again... and immediately spread out to minimise damage from the SCUDs, followed by a prompt counterattack plus immediate airstrike that busts the whole thing wide open and overruns the GLA ambush party. Also, funny thing: Back when Daesh were sweeping Iraq and Syria, it actually was kind of a meme to call them the IRL GLA. Hell, there was IIRC a bunch of youtube vids of fighting in Syria with GLA voiceovers at the time. Akratic Method posted:"Final Justice" isn't really all that more ridiculous than "Enduring Freedom", an actual name used around then. To be honest, I think the question of whether the game is attempting to satirize the Americans as well runs up against Poe's Law. The even better part is that "Enduring Freedom's" successor was then "Freedom's Sentinel"... which only ended six days ago with the last Americans evacuating the Kabul airport. FoolyCharged posted:You're not alone. What is that supposed to even be? A propeller? Yes, a shrouded propeller. It's based on the Sikorsky Cypher.
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Sep 5, 2021 19:35
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We'll need to see the metal as hell United African army concept art at some point, too.
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Sep 5, 2021 19:52
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USA 03: Guardian Angel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lafC8RxfNMI USA 03: Guardian Angel  Despite our successes against GLA forces, not every Commander can say the same. We have been tasked with covering the retreat for the forces of one such General. Our assets are limited, as we are not here to hold ground for very long. Prepare your forces, and ensure no one is left behind!   The wiki places the action in North-Eastern Kazakhstan, but judging by the position on the loading screen, I believe its Western Kazakhstan, south-west of Uralsk.  Location: Western Kazakhstan Objective: Help evacuate 100 American units. Author's note: A fun intro to the US air forces, I mostly confuse this level with a flash game from eons ago.   Comanche RANGE: Medium ARMOR: Comanche WEAPON: 20mm Autocannon, Missiles/Rockets COST: 1500 The Comanche has multiple weapon systems to suppress hard and soft targets. A 20mm nose cannon can keep infantry behind cover, while its four missiles can damage heavy armor. Author's Note: Very useful air power on display, especially upgraded. The extreme anti-air range some enemy units have make it hard to field Comanches effectively, but they can absolutely ruin your day if given the chance.  Stealth Fighter RANGE: Medium ARMOR: Airplane WEAPON: Air to Ground Missiles COST: 1600 The ideal weapon against anti-air weapons, the Stealth Fighter can move unseen through most enemy defenses. It requires 2 seconds to lock on to a target. When the target is acquired and weapons are released, the results are predictable and excellent. Author's Note: I rarely build these, but its hard not to appreciate its cloaked nature. Not as great as alpha striking an opponent as another unit, it does tend to be more survivable.  Air Field ARMOR: Structure COST: 1000 POWER USAGE: 1 PURPOSE: Produces and houses aircraft. Each USA Air Field can build, arm, control, and repair up to four airplanes at a time. Author's Note: Similar in most respects to the Chinese airfield.  Patriot Missile System ARMOR: Base Defense COST: 1000 POWER USAGE: 3 PURPOSE: Anti-Aircraft, Anti-Armour base defense The Patriot Missile System is the base defensive unit of the USA side. Multiple units can be linked in a network to unleash targeted firepower on both land and air targets. The Patriots are weak against infantry, so protect your missile system with fortified infantry units. Author's Note: I've always liked the idea of this defensive structure. The possibility to link with other defenses can provide an extra helping hand when you, or your opponent, aren't expecting it.   Stealth Fighter FACTION: USA COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 1 PURPOSE: Unlocks ability to build Stealth Fighters Ability to build Stealth Fighters at the Air Field. Author's Note: Self explanatory. I never find this one to be an easy decision. There's a different unit that I usually get instead.  A-10 Strike FACTION: USA COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Ability to call in an A-10 Strike Ability to call in an A-10 air strike from the Command Center. The A-10 Strike pummels its target with mini-gun and missile fire. Author's Note: While not too powerful at Rank 1, I can never imagine a situation where I would want to skip out on this.  Laser-Guided Missiles FACTION: USA COST: 1500 PREREQUISITE: Air Field PURPOSE: Increases missile damage by 25% Developed at the Air Field, Laser-Guided Missiles allow Raptor and Stealth Fighters to do 25% more damage. Author's Note: No boost to the Comanche?! What a ripoff!  Rocket Pods FACTION: USA COST: 800 PREREQUISITE: Air Field PURPOSE: Unlocks the Rocket Pod ability for the Comanche. Developed at the Air Field, Rocket Pods are fitted to Comanche helicopters. When deployed, a pod fires a barrage of rockets and then reloads after a short period of time. Author's Note: If you ever bother going Comanche-heavy in your composition, there's literally no reason to skip this upgrade. Aftermath: Good work, General! The rescue and survival of those American troops will surely prove valuable in our efforts to destroy the GLA once and for all.
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Sep 5, 2021 22:24
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So for a long time, I was wondering if it was possible to put Pilots in Comanches, since Comanches are the only unit that, by design, never makes contact with the ground. The only exception is when a Comanche goes to the Airfield to repair, since it lands and gets repaired that way. That's the only opportunity to put Pilots into them. Also, the only niche for a Stealth Fighter, really, is destroying base defenses, since Raptors are artificially weakened against them. Definitely a point best spent elsewhere.
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Sep 5, 2021 23:01
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Patriots are weak against infantry, so protect your missile system with fortified infantry units. 
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Sep 5, 2021 23:10
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I'm going to second your thought that you played the poo poo out of this mission unnecessarily. I remember just parking my comanches with Rocket Pods firing at the edge of the map melting all GLA units ( Space Kablooey fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Sep 6, 2021 |
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Sep 6, 2021 00:34
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Commanches are a conceptually terrifying unit to add to the traditional C&C formula-air units that are fast, low tech, don't need to return to base, and are anti-infantry, anti-vehicle and anti-structure. This would be hilariously broken if put into any other C&C game. In generals they are just very good when your primary base defences double as your AA base defences and very powerful and flexible AA units like Gatling tanks, Quads, and Rocket Humvee's exist. Still, you can probably clear the entire rest of the campaign with the copter deathball if the mood strikes you.
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Sep 6, 2021 00:51
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The Commanche was probably the subject of more balance patches than any other unit. It's the kind of unit where you must have a plan to deal with them (concentrated AA will kill them quickly provided you see them coming) or they will utterly steamroller you.
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Sep 6, 2021 01:06
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commanches are extremely cool, basically what orca gunships always should've been. i'm sad they got shitcanned IRL.
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Sep 6, 2021 02:39
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Loxbourne posted:The Commanche was probably the subject of more balance patches than any other unit. It's the kind of unit where you must have a plan to deal with them (concentrated AA will kill them quickly provided you see them coming) or they will utterly steamroller you. yeah they strike me as being sort of like the starcraft mutalisk in that they're so strong and versatile that you have to balance the game around them
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Sep 6, 2021 03:05
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Didn't the terrans get a specialized anti-mutalisk-deathball unit in the expansion?
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Sep 6, 2021 03:31
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The Lone Badger posted:Didn't the terrans get a specialized anti-mutalisk-deathball unit in the expansion? The Thor, yes.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:35
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Commanche deathbaaall The Lone Badger posted:Didn't the terrans get a specialized anti-mutalisk-deathball unit in the expansion? The protoss got one too.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:37
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Jobbo_Fett posted:The Thor, yes. Think he's talking about the Valkyrie in Brood War. For SC2 Widow Mines also came in as a way to turbo-wreck Muta swarms.
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Sep 6, 2021 03:44
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I love how this game shows why they locked superweapons to 1 of each in the previous games. Caught up to the lp tonight and man it felt good to bumrush my economy in the gla finale. Watching the enemy fire a nuke and responding with 5 scud storms just felt dirty. And man, that commanche mission is just so easy when you do what they want you to. Just rush a dozer and a pair of gis across the valley for supplies and then do nothing but build commanches and spawn camp. I think I've played harder literal tutorial missions.
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Sep 6, 2021 04:19
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This mission is the one where I really feel the increased speed of modern computer power. For one thing, it turns the starting cutscene into an entirely uninteligible mash of voice lines, which isn't a terrible direction for it considering what's going on, but I got used to hearing them in rapid but individual sequence. The other main thing is that since everything moves faster, it takes more brain power to aptly micro the Comanches, on top of handling the defenses on either side of the base, AND the expansion across the canyon. Comanches aren't my favorite air unit, but then I always played singleplayer where their fragility is more noticeable in the face of the bottomless resources and pre-established production infrastructure the AI usually has. My favoritest air unit won't actually show up until Zero Hour. This mission is an excellent display of just how good air power is, though, and it's one of the places where the game's design really does help convey how unfair this kind of asymmetric warfare is when the side with the power advantage gets to flex it. The idea of the GLA having this many troops and vehicles on hand for this ambush is, again, a little delusional, but it's not outrageously so, especially in terms of making an RTS work. The Stealth Fighter is quite a situational unit, being specialized at air-to-ground, but that Stealth CAN be quite useful. Air units move fast enough that base defenses need to be hitting them on the inbound track to reliably shoot them down, and the Stealth Fighter dodges this by being unspottable until it's well into its attack run. This role will get a boost in Zero Hour, though it's never quite important enough to make the Stealth Fighter a must-have pick (well, in a vacuum, anyway). As with the War Factory, the Airfield has some key differences between the Chinese and American versions related to its layout. The American Airfield is much longer and a little narrower, which makes for different forms of base Tetris, but importantly, it's laid out so that planes take off faster from it. China's MiGs have a point where the one in the middle hangar has to make two 90 degree turns to get to the runway position, which takes time and can throw off getting all four in the air at once (and thus all four hitting the target at once, which can ruin getting a Firestorm going and lose you a lot of damage). American planes will have this problem much more rarely. Generally speaking, though, I just launch everything to orbit first and then order its attack after it's launched, just to be sure. And yeah, the strength of the Patriot Missile has one glaring weakness: it's no good at stopping infantry. If they're moving, a Patriot battery will struggle to even hit them, and it'll take a bit to kill them when they stop (though the Patriot does have a little splash, which helps). It must be said that Pathfinders can handle anti-infantry defense just fine, garrisoned or not, but since they unlock at Rank 3, Patriot Batteries are very vulnerable to getting rushed by GLA Terrorists. Compared to the other two factions the U.S. has a distinct hole in its lineup of base defenses which, again, will get remedied in Zero Hour.
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Sep 6, 2021 04:20
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It's an entire mission (1/7 of the entire US campaign) dedicated to telling you USE AIRPOWER, except they only ask you to use one of your air units instead of all .. four? However many. so, yes, yes you definitely do need to use airpower as the US and any other RTS would introduce the concept similarly, sure, but what's missing here is then asking you to use it creatively instead of 'guard one spot with dozens of comanches' I dunno, I think this game's campaign is ...bad? A hot take, I know.
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Sep 6, 2021 04:21
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Psion posted:It's an entire mission (1/7 of the entire US campaign) dedicated to telling you USE AIRPOWER It's got a lot of weaknesses, absolutely. Heck, China 3 was also an entire mission dedicated to Use Airpower since that mission is basically the MiG Free Fire Range. You can REALLY tell that Generals was a game with a lot of budget and time problems in dev, though it wasn't as immediately obvious to me when playing it at age 15. Some of the missions are shockingly intricate and clearly were built to be show pieces, and on the flip side you've got this tower defense game, or GLA 2-3 with their identical objectives.
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Sep 6, 2021 04:24
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There is a US mission coming up that may have been intended to be the airpower-focused mission that actually lets you use the entire US air arsenal, but they do some dumb things with the map layout and scripted events that make it just as easy to win with tanks and humvees instead.
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Sep 6, 2021 06:12
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raverrn posted:We'll need to see the metal as hell United African army concept art at some point, too. This site's got a lot of concept art, and earlier generals was a lot more fantastical, almost post-apoc in some ways. https://cncnz.com/gallery/cc-generals-concept-art/
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Sep 6, 2021 06:48
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And as expected, the first filler mission of the US campaign. If say, the map expanded and you could then go and at least take out whatever base or encampment the GLA had in the area it would be something but once again, nope. A braindead mission where you just spam a single unit and destroy helpless waves apon waves of GLA units. I don't even think they get any Quad Cannons until the very final wave, and even then four of them are going to do nothing to your deathball. Kind of sad how much of the map is wasted as well. Just a boring valley with just the spare resource pallet and pair of Oil buildings. Oh well... least the next mission is going to be... something... This mission at least does show off how incredibly powerful the Comanche is though. Fragile but very multi-purpose and always a threat when in numbers. The Rocket Pods in particular are just amazing and in even small numbers just delete whatever ground units are in its area of effect. In general even when faced with stiff anti-air it is always good to have at least some Comanches around, as a base guard if nothing else. Not really sure why you also have the Stealth Fighter for this mission though, as it is out of its primary element of sniping base defenses, hence the idea of expanding the map and getting some use out of them. They are very effective in that roll at least but here they are really just fairly pointless.
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Sep 6, 2021 07:09
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One thing I don't feel anyone's commented on so far is that the USA faction music feels intentionally like it's conjuring up the soundtracks of Hans Zimmer, who, while responsible for an INSANE number of soundtracks, is probably most recognizable in doing soundtracks for "USA MILITARY STRONG" or "techno-thriller"(i.e. gunwank) movies like The Rock, Broken Arrow, Black Hawk Down, etc. where I feel he has a style that's at once unique and generic because it's very recognizable, but it's in so many movies that it feels mass-produced anyway.
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Sep 6, 2021 07:43
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One of the USA tracks has a very specific violin sting that usually gets used on like Hell's Kitchen or 2000's Discovery Channel shows when something goes wrong. Having now watched those shows since I was a kid, it pings my ear every. Single. Time.
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Sep 6, 2021 09:54
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USA 04: Stormbringer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBMeEMiCP6M USA 04: Stormbringer Following the monumental airlift effort by our forces, the time has come to assault the beaches of the Caspian Sea in Kazakhstan. Many of our top advisors have called for a d-day style assault since this war began, in order to open a 2nd front for the Chinese, and the time has come!  I really don't get how any of this has been working out. The timelapse of the frontline map must be so janky... Location: Caspian Sea Coast, Kazakhstan Objective: Destroy the GLA training camps in the area. Author's note: This mission makes no god drat sense.  Tomahawk Launcher RANGE: Long-Extreme ARMOR: Truck WEAPON: Tomahawk Missile COST: 1200 This vehicle carries a Tomahawk ground-to-ground missile. Battle or Scout drone upgrades are available. A fantastic support weapon, the Tomahawk Missile Launcher can bombard targets from long range. Author's Note: I never really ever used Tomahawks. They can be incredibly powerful, have great range, and are fast in comparison to the Inferno Cannon or SCUD launcher. Just be careful your units don't wander into Tomahawk explosions.  Paradrop I FACTION: USA COST: 1 General Point PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Call in a stick of 5 Paratroopers (Rangers) Ability to deploy a Paradrop from the Command Center. Author's Note: Want some free Rangers? Sure you do. Has the distinct downside of a vulnerable transport towards its destination, but otherwise is fine, I guess. Aftermath: The advisors bloodlust has been sated and we can now continue with the elimination of GLA forces in the country. Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Sep 6, 2021 |
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Sep 6, 2021 20:46
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When I hit this mission last night I just laughed my rear end off at the absurdity. I had completely forgotten about d-day against the terrorists until I got here. You really want to protect those 4 tomahawk you get, as jobbo showed this map seems designed for them to clean house and that's all you get.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:01
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Obviously the ships went baltic > ladoga > onega > volga > caspian sea > kazakhstan 
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Sep 6, 2021 21:04
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OwlFancier posted:Obviously the ships went baltic > ladoga > onega > volga > caspian sea > kazakhstan  How did I not notice this?
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Sep 6, 2021 21:05
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One thing cool about the Tomahawk that wasn't mentioned in the video is the fact that the cruise missile they fire tracks armored targets, so Rocket Buggies, the only faster artillery unit in the game, can't get in safely against a Tomahawk and get out before the missile tracks them down. There's a weird thing going with some units in Generals where missiles don't have a maximum range so if a missile is fired, it'll track the target pretty much no matter what. This does apply to the Scorpion Rocket, but not sure if the Tomahawk will track its target so doggedly. Otherwise, Tomahawks share the same general weaknesses of artillery in this game, namely that they have a minimum range needed to fire the missile, but them not costing a Generals Point to build is a huge advantage for them. Tomahawks + Comanches can be a really formidable composition in this game.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:14
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OwlFancier posted:Obviously the ships went baltic > ladoga > onega > volga > caspian sea > kazakhstan The Volga-Baltic waterway isn't nearly big enough to actually fit a battleship through. Hell, you couldn't fit an Arleigh Burke-class through there. 4 meters maximum draft, and the Burke is also ~2.5 meters too wide to fit into the locks. Sylphid posted:One thing cool about the Tomahawk that wasn't mentioned in the video is the fact that the cruise missile they fire tracks armored targets, so Rocket Buggies, the only faster artillery unit in the game, can't get in safely against a Tomahawk and get out before the missile tracks them down. There's a weird thing going with some units in Generals where missiles don't have a maximum range so if a missile is fired, it'll track the target pretty much no matter what. This does apply to the Scorpion Rocket, but not sure if the Tomahawk will track its target so doggedly. They absolutely will. For an example to the contrary, infantry missiles trying to tail-chase planes can and will end up not catching it and just falling out of the skies. Magni fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Sep 6, 2021 |
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Sep 6, 2021 21:17
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Magni posted:The Volga-Baltic waterway isn't nearly big enough to actually fit a battleship through. Hell, you couldn't fit an Arleigh Burke-class through there. 4 meters maximum draft, and the Burke is also ~2.5 meters too wide to fit into the locks. Look at you, with your facts and logic! *Airlifts a battleship into the Caspian*
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Sep 6, 2021 21:20
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Clearly the Americans just used the Chronosphere. Time travel would be the only thing explaining what on Earth they're even doing with an Iowa class battleship in 20XX in the first place.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:22
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No, no. They were able to airlift the battleship because they forgot 99% of its ammo. That why it fires it's guns twice and then stops.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:26
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It really bugs me that we switched colour from blue to teal in this mission.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:36
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Cythereal posted:Clearly the Americans just used the Chronosphere. Time travel would be the only thing explaining what on Earth they're even doing with an Iowa class battleship in 20XX in the first place. It's not actually an Iowa, it's based on a genuine concept for a bombardment frigate that was doing the rounds in the early 00s. We get a better look at the ship later. It's an obscure piece of Tom Clancy technowank. The only possible explanation for this level is that Generals came out a year or two after Medal of Honor: Allied Assault, and EA ordered everything to have a version of D-Day in it (or the devs shoved one in to get Generals funded). Given the dam and the love of Max Payne slow motion shots, the engine clearly had a set number of gimmicks worked out in advance and the dev team milked the hell out of them.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:54
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Look at you, with your facts and logic! I don't know, I'm pretty amused by imagining them trying and it's all horrible scraping noises and cursing in russian and english. Mostly russian because holy poo poo these dumb yankees are ruining our canal locks.
Magni fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Sep 6, 2021 |
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Sep 6, 2021 21:54
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Loxbourne posted:It's not actually an Iowa, it's based on a genuine concept for a bombardment frigate that was doing the rounds in the early 00s. We get a better look at the ship later. It's an obscure piece of Tom Clancy technowank. To be fair, stuff exploding and flying everywhere in pieces is really satisfying in this game and I love the little slow mo shots of stuff like the technical's gunner going flying or the obligatory wheel taking off.
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Sep 6, 2021 21:57
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Was it just me or did I see GLA rocket troops/stinger sites try to shoot down the Tomahawk's rockets a couple of times?
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Sep 6, 2021 21:57
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PurpleXVI posted:Was it just me or did I see GLA rocket troops/stinger sites try to shoot down the Tomahawk's rockets a couple of times? Yes, it's a large enough missile that it counts as a separate object that can be shot down if enough AA hits it. Same with the Scud Launcher's missiles.
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Sep 6, 2021 22:05
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 06:54 |
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Also if you demolish that tower at the front of the GLA base, it can fall towards the GLA command center, doing like, a billion damage to it. You can more or less control the direction towers fall in depending of the direction of damage that comes in and destroys it. I think only the last hit counts though.
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Sep 6, 2021 22:18
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