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aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009


steinrokkan posted:

What's the difference

:can:

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Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

BonHair posted:

That's Catholic, not Christian.

I've been assuming that Christian is a generic term that encompasses Catholicism, Orthodox churches as well all the assorted Protestant denominations.

Is this not the case?

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012

Count Roland posted:

I've been assuming that Christian is a generic term that encompasses Catholicism, Orthodox churches as well all the assorted Protestant denominations.

Is this not the case?

It is the case, apart from baptist insanity where people think that nobody outside of their specific branch is actually christian.

Rebel Blob
Mar 1, 2008

Extinction for our time

Count Roland posted:

I've been assuming that Christian is a generic term that encompasses Catholicism, Orthodox churches as well all the assorted Protestant denominations.

Is this not the case?
You should ask Jack Chick (a Baptist, if you are wondering): Are Roman Catholics Christians?

Sure there is lot of extremely dubious religious nitpicking, but did you know that the Roman Catholic church is actually decended from the Cult of Baal in Bablyon?

packetmantis
Feb 26, 2013

Vasukhani posted:

Probably a Georgian emigre. Most Americans from the former soviet union support Trump and are fond towards Putin.

This is absolute bullshit. Go to hell.

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

Catholics, Orthodox, Baptists, Anabaptists, Lutherans, Calvinists, Mormons, Methodists, Nestorians, Quakers, Jehova's Witnesses, Moravians, Anglicans, Presbyterians, and Evangelicals all count as christian, and while people may have big disagreements in doctrine and really care about distinguishing between different denominations, they all share similar origins and some key beliefs.

I think some people consider themselves just "Christian" without really acknowledging their denomination, and so they try lashing out pretty hard on denominations that they see as extra-alien. Others are still salty about schisms. Whatever.

I think it only really gets confusing when you find the few edge cases like Messianic Jews.

pthighs
Jun 21, 2013

Pillbug
Often when religions schism the various sects start declaring the others as heretics. In the US in the past few decades this has taken the form of non-denominational evangelical protestants becomong ascendent and hating on more traditional forms of Christianity.

Though in the last few years they have all talked around Trumpism.

Guavanaut
Nov 27, 2009

Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998



Toilet Rascal
This must be the Christian flag


Probably Christian VII but it has been claimed far earlier :denmark:

BIG FLUFFY DOG
Feb 16, 2011

On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.


Rebel Blob posted:

You should ask Jack Chick (a Baptist, if you are wondering): Are Roman Catholics Christians?

Sure there is lot of extremely dubious religious nitpicking, but did you know that the Roman Catholic church is actually decended from the Cult of Baal in Bablyon?



drat the confessional was started by the sons of the only dude righteous enough to not be drowned by God? Sounds like it’s got a good pedigree. Thanks Jack Chick!

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

The_Other posted:

Christian Flag? do you mean this one?

I've never actually seen or heard of this flag before.

i see i've already been beaten by the :goonsay: squad, but the flag here was created in an attempt to make an ecumenical pan-christianity flag

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS



It’s a bad design.

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

BonHair posted:

That's Catholic, not Christian.

And anyway your want this:


E: tag yourself, I'm the three English flags

Yeah, don't do this even if it is a joke.

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

Ardennes posted:

Yeah, don't do this even if it is a joke.

Sorry. I thought it was a weird fringe belief that could be safely mocked, but it sounds like it's more common than I thought.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

BonHair posted:

Sorry. I thought it was a weird fringe belief that could be safely mocked, but it sounds like it's more common than I thought.
I dropped the subject as a gimmick for that exact reason. It means nothing where I live, but it's a big deal in a lot of other places.

Count Roland posted:

I've been assuming that Christian is a generic term that encompasses Catholicism, Orthodox churches as well all the assorted Protestant denominations.

Is this not the case?
You're forgetting the Church of the East, which became its own thing very early on.

Pope Hilarius II
Nov 10, 2008


In Vatican City, where priests are so pretty
I first set my eyes on the cardinal's throne

wisconsingreg
Jan 13, 2019

packetmantis posted:

This is absolute bullshit. Go to hell.

It absolutely is not.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-10-06/in-brighton-beach-a-contradictory-love-for-trump

quote:

In the 2012 and 2008 elections, 70 to 75 percent of these émigré voters cast ballots for the Republican presidential candidates Mitt Romney and John McCain, respectively, says Sam Kliger, the director of Russian Jewish Community Affairs at the AJC. In this presidential election, Kliger predicts the percentage of Republican voters in the Russian Jewish community is likely to dip slightly to 60 to 65 percent, a trend which Kliger says might be caused by the uptick in the number of second-generation immigrants who, unlike their parents, were educated in the United States and tend to veer more to the left on the political spectrum. The older generation, Kliger says, "despises socialism and communism."

Gary Gindler, a Ukrainian Jewish émigré and a dyed-in-the-wool Republican, says that growing up he had to memorize Karl Marx's "Communist Manifesto" and various tomes by Vladimir Lenin. Gindler says he had $800 when he arrived in the United States. Within two years, he found a job, purchased a house for his wife and two children, and had changed his name from Igor to Gary. Though apolitical at first, Gindler started picking up on the cadence of American politics after he received citizenship in September 2001.

He says, however, he was disappointed when he realized that his son and daughter were receiving an education, like the vast majority of Americans, in "Marxist" educational institutions, despite their father's experiences. "My children were very pro-Democrat when they graduated high school. All their teachers were these nice young liberal types – of course they supported the Democrats," he says, sipping on his Coca-Cola. "I hope their opinions have started to change," he says, adding that he believes high income taxes could quickly turn them into appreciative conservatives.

And while it is certainly anecdotal, there are also certainly is still at least a "Putin-consensus questioning" narrative among russian orthodox americans (outside of ROCOR)

wisconsingreg fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Sep 5, 2021

Lutha Mahtin
Oct 10, 2010

Your brokebrain sin is absolved...go and shitpost no more!

SlothfulCobra posted:

Catholics, Orthodox, Baptists, Anabaptists, Lutherans, Calvinists, Mormons, Methodists, Nestorians, Quakers, Jehova's Witnesses, Moravians, Anglicans, Presbyterians, and Evangelicals all count as christian, and while people may have big disagreements in doctrine and really care about distinguishing between different denominations, they all share similar origins and some key beliefs.

I think some people consider themselves just "Christian" without really acknowledging their denomination, and so they try lashing out pretty hard on denominations that they see as extra-alien. Others are still salty about schisms. Whatever.

I think it only really gets confusing when you find the few edge cases like Messianic Jews.

this post got a bunch of real basic stuff wrong, so i suggest nobody rely on it, but i also feel like a big effort post reply to it would be getting off topic, so i will just explain the main points

the biggest problem with the post is that it doesn't consider the beliefs of the people it is all lumping together: one of the basic things you have to do when talking about religious sects is to consider how the adherents of each sect think about themselves in relation to other sects. the second biggest problem is that the post says it's "not confusing" to lump in Nestorians, Mormons, and Jehova's Witnesses with the more traditional groups, which, just, lol

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Lutha Mahtin posted:

this post got a bunch of real basic stuff wrong, so i suggest nobody rely on it, but i also feel like a big effort post reply to it would be getting off topic, so i will just explain the main points

the biggest problem with the post is that it doesn't consider the beliefs of the people it is all lumping together: one of the basic things you have to do when talking about religious sects is to consider how the adherents of each sect think about themselves in relation to other sects. the second biggest problem is that the post says it's "not confusing" to lump in Nestorians, Mormons, and Jehova's Witnesses with the more traditional groups, which, just, lol
Nestorians are one of the most traditional groups!

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

Look buddy, feel free to do an in-depth post about how this and this sect/denomination/cult/branch/snood/church/heresy/patriarchate is so wildly different from all the others from having these extra scriptures on top of the more standard bible or enshrining the extratextual word and decisions of this one spiritual leader in a way that's so different from the rest that it somehow transmutes to something entirely different and unrelated.

But post some flags while you do it, fool.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo
Discounting people desperate enough to become refugees, people who successfully emigrate tend to be richer and more right-wing, no? Worldwide.

That said my gf is from Kazakhstan and has a big sickle and hammer tat so at least some immigrants aren't rightists.

Have a cool Kazakh flag

Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Sep 6, 2021

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Discounting people desperate enough to become refugees, people who successfully emigrate tend to be richer and more right-wing, no? Worldwide.

That said my gf is from Kazakhstan and has a big sickle and hammer tat so at least some immigrants aren't rightists.

Have a cool Kazakh flag


The light blue contrasts badly with the red but otherwise that's a nice one.

Zedhe Khoja
Nov 10, 2017

sürgünden selamlar
yıkıcılar ulusuna
probably looks great in actual threads
e: texture is an undervalued quality in flag aesthetics

Zedhe Khoja fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Sep 6, 2021

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009


Yeah that's a great flag for a flag with text

Mr. Wiggles
Dec 1, 2003

We are all drinking from the highball glass of ideology.

Serious flag/heraldry question here - when a bird like the eagle above, or the American eagle, or whatever is displayed this way - with the wings out and the feet splayed, etc, what's that called? I know it's not "rampant" or "per gules" or whatever heraldry term it is, but I'd like to know the official name. Thanks!

Guavanaut
Nov 27, 2009

Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998



Toilet Rascal
Displayed, or colloquially spread eagle.

Quorum
Sep 24, 2014

REMIND ME AGAIN HOW THE LITTLE HORSE-SHAPED ONES MOVE?

Mr. Wiggles posted:

Serious flag/heraldry question here - when a bird like the eagle above, or the American eagle, or whatever is displayed this way - with the wings out and the feet splayed, etc, what's that called? I know it's not "rampant" or "per gules" or whatever heraldry term it is, but I'd like to know the official name. Thanks!

Or, an eagle t-posing sable.

Powered Descent
Jul 13, 2008

We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

aphid_licker posted:

Yeah that's a great flag for a flag with text

Yup, this. Text on flags should be used sparingly, if at all.

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009


Mr. Wiggles posted:

Serious flag/heraldry question here - when a bird like the eagle above, or the American eagle, or whatever is displayed this way - with the wings out and the feet splayed, etc, what's that called? I know it's not "rampant" or "per gules" or whatever heraldry term it is, but I'd like to know the official name. Thanks!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attitude_(heraldry)#Attitudes_of_birds

BIRBS WITH ATTITUDE

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo
Writing systems with a calligraphic tradition can do text flags fine.

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Writing systems with a calligraphic tradition can do text flags fine.

Especially if it's stylised a bit:

Pope Hilarius II
Nov 10, 2008

BonHair posted:

Especially if it's stylised a bit:


idk it looks nice when blown up to a large size but in smaller sizes it looks like jpeg artifacts

I agree with the other poster who said text on flags is kind of gauche, and I think it holds true even for scripts like Arabic or Devanagari. It just looks better to people who can't read the script so they parse it as a design pattern instead of letters.

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009


Pope Hilarius II posted:

It just looks better to people who can't read the script so they parse it as a design pattern instead of letters.

I do suspect that this plays a role. Mirrored arabic is just as dumb as PMURT to someone who can actually read arabic

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo
I can read cyrillic and some older soviet flags with stylized text look good. The bad text is a "SMALLTOWN USA" around a seal in comic sans

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

aphid_licker posted:

I do suspect that this plays a role. Mirrored arabic is just as dumb as PMURT to someone who can actually read arabic

I am gonna stan for the Iranian flag I guess: it's a nice touch that the big text (Allah, اللّٰه) is so stylised that it's symmetric despite not being a palindrome, both for PMURT reasons and general aesthetics.

The small text is absolutely too small and looks bad, though. Also you really have to know what it says to read it (or I'm even worse at Arabic than I thought). And isn't symmetric.

wisconsingreg
Jan 13, 2019

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

I can read cyrillic and some older soviet flags with stylized text look good. The bad text is a "SMALLTOWN USA" around a seal in comic sans

wisconsingreg
Jan 13, 2019
There can be a whole post about overly wordy flags


Mr. Wiggles
Dec 1, 2003

We are all drinking from the highball glass of ideology.
Thanks for the bird info!

SlothfulCobra
Mar 27, 2011

Pope Hilarius II posted:

idk it looks nice when blown up to a large size but in smaller sizes it looks like jpeg artifacts

I agree with the other poster who said text on flags is kind of gauche, and I think it holds true even for scripts like Arabic or Devanagari. It just looks better to people who can't read the script so they parse it as a design pattern instead of letters.

I guess since I don't understand other writing systems, I'm more prone to just appreciate the aesthetics of their shapes rather than how well the text can actually deliver the meaning of the words.

That said, I don't think the Iranian flag is really meant to be read. In context, it's more just a geometric pattern that blends the three stripes a little.




The Muslim world's use of text as decoration goes beyond just a tradition of calligraphy, there's a whole thing where early Islam was pretty against use of representational art, so a lot of decoration throughout the muslim world was either simpler geometric shapes or elaborately exaggerated text. They also have more of a tradition of actually using text on their flags, like how the Ottomans took this flag into their war with Austria when the Hapsburgs were waving around black birds on yellow backgrounds.



And that tradition continued into the 19th century.



Whereas you will much more rarely see text on European flags throughout history, so it's even more clearly an afterthought and not a graphic design decision. There is text in coats of arms, but that's a form of iconography meant for squeezing as much detail as possible into a small space as opposed to simplifying things to recognize at a distance.

Byzantine
Sep 1, 2007

Quorum posted:

Or, an eagle t-posing sable.

T-pose to assert imperium

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Pope Hilarius II
Nov 10, 2008

Byzantine posted:

T-pose to assert imperium

Imperial Power Stance, as it were

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