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So I have an ncase m1, and there’s nothing wrong with it at all. But… I want to go smaller. No particular reason, I just do. Going smaller means a sandwich style case. I really like the look of the dancase a4, and I’m not put off by the price or the cooler limitations. Should I just pull the trigger on that, or are there any other cases I should be looking at? Maybe see what FormD is cooking up? My only requirement is that the case have at least 1 USB port on or near the front.
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Sep 3, 2021 23:02
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I have a Dan-A4, it's good. The main limitation is depth of gpu cooler, it can only take a 2.2 slot card. What do you want to know? The cpu cooler to get is probably the Alpenfohn Black Ridge. I'd recommend buying or making custom PSU cables.
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Sep 4, 2021 09:30
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denereal visease posted:thank you for this good post ok just did it this afternoon. my first time doing a mini itx or sff computer and first time doing an aio or water cooling of any sort. pretty straightforward overall. not quite sure the best way to manage cables but this seems to work for now  
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Sep 4, 2021 13:35
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knox_harrington posted:I have a Dan-A4, it's good. The main limitation is depth of gpu cooler, it can only take a 2.2 slot card. What do you want to know? I’m planning on eventually getting a reference 3070, so depth shouldn’t be an issue. My current 1060 (curse you GPU shortage) will fit easily. I’ve watched some build videos and will definitely look into custom cables. Are you using a case fan? If you have the Black Ridge cooler, did you replace the fan? Do you find the noise levels acceptable? That’s pretty much it. I think I’m going to go for it. It looks like a fun build and I love how small the end result is.
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Sep 4, 2021 17:07
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fart simpson posted:ok just did it this afternoon. my first time doing a mini itx or sff computer and first time doing an aio or water cooling of any sort. pretty straightforward overall. not quite sure the best way to manage cables but this seems to work for now Nice build. I've learned with the Meshlicious that as long as the panels close who gives a poo poo about cable management.
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Sep 4, 2021 18:03
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Anyone have a favorite site for custom cables?
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Sep 4, 2021 18:17
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Enos Cabell posted:Anyone have a favorite site for custom cables? Pslate for quality, dreambigbyray on etsy for price/performance.
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Sep 4, 2021 19:05
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TheMadMilkman posted:I’m planning on eventually getting a reference 3070 Bad idea in a sandwich layout case
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Sep 4, 2021 19:36
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Canna Happy posted:Pslate for quality, dreambigbyray on etsy for price/performance. Thanks, didn't even think of etsy but that makes sense!
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Sep 4, 2021 19:39
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Butterfly Valley posted:Bad idea in a sandwich layout case Some of the build videos I’ve watched have used these without any issue. Is there info out there that shows why this would be an issue? Edit: I may be mistaking this for the FormD T1, which I believe let’s you place the GPU on taller standoffs. Either way, my current GPU will be fine, and I’ll research more when it’s time to buy a GPU. TheMadMilkman fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Sep 4, 2021 |
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Sep 4, 2021 19:59
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TheMadMilkman posted:I’m planning on eventually getting a reference 3070, so depth shouldn’t be an issue. My current 1060 (curse you GPU shortage) will fit easily. I’ve watched some build videos and will definitely look into custom cables. I have a Cryorig C7 with an adapter to take a noctua fan. It works well, though I only have a 65W CPU. Not sure I'd recommend it over the black ridge or noctua coolers. I use a 92x25 case fan on exhaust. The founders edition graphics cards aren’t good for sandwich cases because the air needs to flow through the backplane.
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Sep 5, 2021 00:24
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Here's the finished wesena + egpu build from earlier case is a bit of a fingerprint / dust magnet  Looks especially nice at night, as the rgb cycles through. I left it installed w/ a gap under so it looks almost like ground effects or something like that. Pleased w/ how it turned out; I've had the idea to put an egpu up like this, suspended above the computer, and now it finally exists! Also built / had built + installed, customized all the shelving and the beam the egpu is on and such e: oh, I ended up going w/ a sonnet 5500xt for the egpu. It's a good mix of performance + cooling for the form factor; the 5700 they have just runs too hot to be practical for long-term use. also has these nice light patterns underneath, from the venting hole patterns under the board  looks almost like a static kaleidoscope Broken Machine fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Sep 5, 2021 |
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Sep 5, 2021 01:57
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Romes128 posted:Nice build. here’s the giant eleven year old lian li cased computer it’s replacing  
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Sep 5, 2021 07:19
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Speaking of giant old cases, what's the best way to get rid of them besides the tip/a charity shop? Is there a good place to sell them or should I see if I can get scrap value for it? My NR200 is arriving imminently and my 13 year old Antec Sonata will need to be turfed out.
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Sep 5, 2021 12:40
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Speaking of giant Lian Li cases, here's my massive new O11D XL build with my NR200 build sitting on top. Probably the two best cases I've owned, on opposite ends of the spectrum
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Sep 5, 2021 14:20
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Anyone have suggestions for a cheap-ish modular or semi-mod sff psu 400-500w or so? Realized I've got everything but that to put together a 2400g system in a Fractal Node case. Likely won't ever see a gpu in it, so I don't mind skimping a bit to save some cash, seems like there are lots of duds to avoid in that price range though.
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Sep 5, 2021 14:57
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Enos Cabell posted:Anyone have suggestions for a cheap-ish modular or semi-mod sff psu 400-500w or so? Realized I've got everything but that to put together a 2400g system in a Fractal Node case. Likely won't ever see a gpu in it, so I don't mind skimping a bit to save some cash, seems like there are lots of duds to avoid in that price range though. Don't ever skimp on a PSU, even if you aren't putting a GPU in it there's a lot of kit that you can damage with a lovely psu Also wtf happened to my AV?
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Sep 5, 2021 15:03
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Enos Cabell posted:Anyone have suggestions for a cheap-ish modular or semi-mod sff psu 400-500w or so? Realized I've got everything but that to put together a 2400g system in a Fractal Node case. Likely won't ever see a gpu in it, so I don't mind skimping a bit to save some cash, seems like there are lots of duds to avoid in that price range though. Corsair SF450 Gold? I'm using one with no issues besides the modular cables being a tad stiff.
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Sep 5, 2021 15:27
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Yeah looking around some more it seems the features I want kinda weeds out all the crappy PSUs anyway. Found an EVGA Supernova 550gm for $65, think I'll snag that one.
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Sep 5, 2021 16:28
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So it turns out that when I posted above about my temps being great with only one case fan in the NR200, I wasn't actually looking at CPU temp under load, and I did, and now they're "fine, but not good" so I've actually got a reason to tinker. I've got a 5600X and a 2070S in an NR200, currently the 5600X is cooled by a Fuma 2 and I have just one 120mm case fan (the one that comes with the NR200) running as top front exhaust. GPU temps are like 45 at idle and 68 under load, which seems good. CPU temps are around 42 at idle and were at 85 under load; idle seems OK but that load temp seemed a bit high to me. I had the Fuma 2 running as exhaust out of the back of the case, so tried flipping it to do intake: idle temps are the same and load temp has decreased... but only to 82. And GPU idle temp increased to 48 (though load temp stayed the same). Should I:
Edit: or maybe something else is wrong? When I flipped the Fuma I noticed that I'd waaaay over-applied thermal paste and spent some time cleaning that up. I held back when remounting it but maybe I still applied too much?
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Sep 6, 2021 17:33
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Enos Cabell posted:Speaking of giant Lian Li cases, here's my massive new O11D XL build with my NR200 build sitting on top. Probably the two best cases I've owned, on opposite ends of the spectrum The O11 is such a nice 'showpiece' case that I'm sorely tempted to get into another build using one. Even in spite of my usual RGB stodginess. Scythe posted:So it turns out that when I posted above about my temps being great with only one case fan in the NR200, I wasn't actually looking at CPU temp under load, and I did, and now they're "fine, but not good" so I've actually got a reason to tinker. I'd say more case fans, and set them up as intakes instead of exhaust. You've got a filter up there, so use it. The extra positive pressure will force hot air out of the case. In ITX, temperature problems are caused by airflow constraints in most cases (trying to run an OC'd 10900k on an L9i non-withstanding), and the NR200 can easily solve airflow problems. Unless you're underapplying thermal paste to the point the heat spreader has bare spots, this is not your problem. Numerous thinkpieces have been done on it, and paste application is largely the realm of YouTube comment arguments more than anything else.
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Sep 6, 2021 18:15
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On the other hand I'm gonna say that 85 under load with a 5600x and Fuma 2 seems very high. With the same combo and a 3080 FE I struggle to push it over 65. I have a slim noctua and arctic p12 as top exhaust and 2 arctic p12s as bottom intake along with the fuma 2 as intake. Flipping the fuma 2 does make a small but measurable difference, but only by a couple of degrees Intake favours the CPU and exhaust the GPU, but this effect is mainly pronounced with the FE 30 series cooler designs. Maybe you need to gently caress around with the fan curves? The Scythe fans are really quiet so you can run them quite fast without hearing them over anything else in the case.
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Sep 6, 2021 19:10
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What is the ambient temp in your room? I agree that 85C seems high for the 5600X but if your room is particularly warm that might explain it.Scythe posted:Should I: The first and easiest suggestion is to put a second fan on top. Which board do you have? On some boards (Asus/Asrock) you can fit two full-sized 120mm fans whereas on others (Gigabyte/MSI) the CPU socket is positioned higher so only a slim will fit. The second suggestion is to swap out the Scythe fans for fans with higher airflow. The Scythe fans are limited to 1200 RPM which is great for noise but they won't cool as well as higher RPM fans. You could also do both and turn the Scythe fans into your top exhaust fans (since you get one slim and one full-size) and then get a pair of Noctuas or Arctics to attach to the cooler. Swapping out the cooler seems like overkill. As you said tons of people use a Fuma 2 with the NR200 and it works just fine. It's not actually the best performer because of its limited RPM fans, but people tend to recommend it because it's good value compared to the more expensive Noctua coolers like the C14S or U12A, and it's very quiet. For what it's worth in my testing I found that: 1) Rear intake was superior to exhaust for all tower-style coolers. 2) Top exhaust fans do help to remove warm air from the case and reduce CPU load temps. 3) You don't really need bottom fans. Also if your GPU has a zero-RPM mode where the fans don't spin at idle then you should just ignore the GPU idle temp because it isn't really meaningful. NoDamage fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Sep 7, 2021 |
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Sep 7, 2021 00:52
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Thanks for all the thoughts. The room was a bit hot but I didn't take an ambient temp measurement at the same time I ran the tests and I know ambient is fluctuating pretty dramatically right now (the weather's really changeable here in NYC over the last week so sometimes I have a window open, sometimes I don't, sometimes AC is on, etc.). I'll do that next time I run a test. I like the idea of getting a pair of Noctuas and swapping them in for the Scythe fans in the Fuma 2 (since the Kaze Flexes are supposed to be good airflow for the low RPMs but poor static pressure, right?), then repurposing the Scythes as top fans. (I have a Gigabyte board so one of the top fans needs to be slim.) I also like the idea of positive pressure, so might try flipping the Fuma again to run as exhaust with top fans as intake, or at least try both directions and see which one is better. If I do that, I'll definitely report back. I assume the Noctuas I should grab are a NF-A12x25 and an NF-A12x15, right? Also, NoDamage, good point on the GPU idle temp, my card does have a mode where the fans are stopped.
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Sep 7, 2021 03:19
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NoDamage posted:What is the ambient temp in your room? I agree that 85C seems high for the 5600X but if your room is particularly warm that might explain it. As a note of dissent, while yes top exhaust will remove air, it's worth noting this has nothing to do with convection. Any fan layout, positive or negative, will overcome "heat rises" to the point where the exact placement is a non-factor. I am still a bigger fan of a positive pressure setup for dust reasons. Scythe posted:Thanks for all the thoughts. I like the plan of repurposing the low RPM high volume fans for intakes and using the NF-A's for your actual heatsink fans. The main point is to keep the fin stack fed with fresh air since your GPU seems to be doing just fine on its own. Having the airflow pointed out the rear of the case should work just fine. It's definitely worth measuring the ambient temperature around the case and judging your measurements as dT/ambient to null out the effects of a particularly hot day. I have a thermistor on mine that sits right in front of the radiator intake to judge what temperature the intake air is, since that will affect what is reasonable to expect from my cooling performance. You don't gotta go to that much effort, but knowing what the thermostat says will help you control for that when you're testing one combination vs. another.
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Sep 7, 2021 03:43
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From what I recall about perfect NR200p setups. If you are using the glass side panel you want two bottom fans, two top fans and the cooler running in intake. If you are using the mesh side. You want two top exhausts and the cooler running as exhaust too.
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Sep 7, 2021 07:56
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Warmachine posted:As a note of dissent, while yes top exhaust will remove air, it's worth noting this has nothing to do with convection. Any fan layout, positive or negative, will overcome "heat rises" to the point where the exact placement is a non-factor. I am still a bigger fan of a positive pressure setup for dust reasons. Am just about to start building my own NR200. I've heard a lot about these positive/negative pressure setups, are there any good explainers available for them or is it a matter of more intake vs more exhaust? How does a PP setup reduce dust? Won't the dust is be sucked in?
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Sep 7, 2021 10:34
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Z the IVth posted:Am just about to start building my own NR200. I've heard a lot about these positive/negative pressure setups, are there any good explainers available for them or is it a matter of more intake vs more exhaust? With positive pressure, air naturally seeks to escape the case. No air will enter it unless you're forcing it in. This means you can choose exactly where air enters the case while making sure it never enters from any other point of ingress. In effect, this lets you make sure that every place air is entering your case from is filtered. Most modern towers use positive pressure, where they have many intake fans and maybe one or two exhaust fans that mainly serve to guide airflow and make sure that warm air doesn't pool behind a tower cooler. With negative pressure, air naturally seeks to enter the case. Negative pressure setups can be quite good depending on the setup, such as if you have a GPU facing a mesh panel. You want to encourage air through that mesh to feed the GPU. This is why the meshlicious typically runs its only two fans in exhaust. If you were to run those fans in intake, air would instead by trying to escape the case through the mesh panels, and your downdraft air cooler(s) on the gpu/cpu would be fighting against the airflow, attempting to suck in air that is trying to leave. Because air is attempting to enter into any crevice it can find with negative pressure setups, this is bad for dust management. You will never be able to filter every point of ingress, it's just not feasible. How much of a downside this is depends on your living environment and how frequently you're okay with taking an air duster to your PC. edit: and yeah, you determine this by pushing in more air than you're actively pulling out for positive pressure or vise versa for negative. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Sep 7, 2021 |
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Sep 7, 2021 10:58
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Z the IVth posted:Am just about to start building my own NR200. I've heard a lot about these positive/negative pressure setups, are there any good explainers available for them or is it a matter of more intake vs more exhaust? As the other post says, positive pressure = more in than out, if you filter your intake fans, only clean air is getting in the case negative pressure = more out than in - dust is going to be sucked through every last random crevice and opening in the case, around your USB ports etc.
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Sep 7, 2021 11:43
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I would actually recommend against replacing the fans on the fuma 2 - the heatsink is optimized for very low noise operation with the fins spaced far apart and I think most testing has found it doesn't scale super well with more static pressure. 82 does sound high on a 5600x unless you're using pbo to raise the default power limit but it's hard to know for sure without knowing ambient temps. Either way it's totally fine for the chip to run that hot. For reference, I'm running a 5800X at 105w ppt (a little above there default 88w on the 5600x) and with 77F ambient temperatures I peak at like 71C on the CPU in p95, but that's without GPU load. I have my fuma 2 set as intake which I believe is ideal in all circumstances and I'm running hard negative pressure - 2x120mm exhaust on the bottom, 2x 120 (1 slim) exhaust on the top with my GPU shroud and fans removed. I think this is the best layout for ultra low noise operation in an air cooled build, but max performance would probably be achieved with GPU fans on and 2 bottom slim fans as intake. The nr200 is great because you can run the case fans very slowly and still get good airflow.
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Sep 7, 2021 14:31
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Conversely, when I set my Fuma 2 fans to intake (which is to say, exhausting *into* the NR200) my non-CPU in-case temps shot up. Stuff like my GPU and m.2 SSD were reporting 5-6 degrees higher than previously and the PSU cage was now hot to the touch. Though tbfI only had two top exhaust fans at that point as my chungus 3080 didn't even allow for slim fans on the bottom of the case
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Sep 7, 2021 14:38
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Oh all exhaust probably only works with vented panel. Glass changes everything.
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Sep 7, 2021 14:38
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VorpalFish posted:Oh all exhaust probably only works with vented panel. Glass changes everything. This was with the vented panel, but granted this was also with the 5900x, a certified Hot-rear end Chip Either way I'm hoping switching to the AIO in the NR200P MAX solves things (not to mention finally having room for bottom intakes since the card will be vertical)
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Sep 7, 2021 14:47
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Cross-Section posted:Though tbfI only had two top exhaust fans at that point as my chungus 3080 didn't even allow for slim fans on the bottom of the case
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Sep 7, 2021 14:48
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Even if you removed the shroud and fans from your 3080? The idea in this setup is to forsake the stock GPU fans and sit your fatass GPU heatsink directly on top of the bottom case fans. This never occurred to me, though I imagine even if it had, I would have been too much of a pansy to even partially take apart my extremely-rare and top-of-the-line GPU lol (though I have since gone as far to remove shroud, fans, and heatsink on other, older GPUs)
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Sep 7, 2021 14:51
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Cross-Section posted:This never occurred to me, though I imagine even if it had, I would have been too much of a pansy to even partially take apart my extremely-rare and top-of-the-line GPU lol (though I have since gone as far to remove shroud, fans, and heatsink on other, older GPUs) It's a pretty neat way to cool your GPU effectively while using your much quieter case fans, but whether you can do it at all or not depends heavily on the model of your card and the case you're using. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUaZVpN51Po
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Sep 7, 2021 15:00
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Funnily enough i just ran cinebench on my 3900X, Running with my underclock at 1.075V and clocked at 4Ghz i didnt see the temp go above 85C But removing the undervolting the temps went to 95C Day to day usage it never goes above 51C idle though When in idle mode i literally cannot hear it. The fans are completely silent.
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Sep 7, 2021 15:01
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CyberPingu posted:Funnily enough i just ran cinebench on my 3900X, 51C idle is  to me.
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Sep 7, 2021 15:17
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Warmachine posted:51C idle is I dont know if we have different definitions of idle but its like day to day temps running all the stuff i need for work. The 3900X is notoriously difficult to control ive found Currently its actually at 41C not 51C sorry, that was a typo The AIO i had could only keep it around 38 idle. CyberPingu fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Sep 7, 2021 |
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Sep 7, 2021 15:25
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CyberPingu posted:I dont know if we have different definitions of idle but its like day to day temps running all the stuff i need for work. Ok, 41C is more sane. I treat anything that would fall into the umbrella of 'light web browsing and checking email' as idle, since it's bare minimum of computing power. I idle somewhere in the 35C range.
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Sep 7, 2021 16:06
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