Edgar Allen Ho posted:I had always assumed it was sort of an ongoing "well if it works" thing than a specific attempt. That's pretty much explicitly stated in the book (very minor book spoilers, I guess): Game of Thrones posted:“Oh, indeed. Cersei gave him the wineskins, and told him it was Robert’s favorite
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Aug 29, 2021 19:47
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, Peter Jackson wound up basically destroying New Zealand's ironically Lord of the Rings-revitalized film industry in trying to make The Hobbit, to the point where the NZ government bent over backwards even further to lick Jeff Bezos's boots in order to get Amazon to film the LOTR TV show there, and Amazon still ultimately went "gently caress you, we're filming the rest of this in London" after wrapping on Season 1. Lindsay Ellis' video on The Hobbit dug into this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi7t_g5QObs Pretty interesting (and unfortunate) stuff
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Aug 29, 2021 19:58
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Remember when being stupid had actual consequences? But then they just gave the night king a dragon because they sent all main characters to fetch a wight but then it turned out fine because nk is weak to jumping.
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Sep 3, 2021 15:44
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, Peter Jackson wound up basically destroying New Zealand's ironically Lord of the Rings-revitalized film industry in trying to make The Hobbit, to the point where the NZ government bent over backwards even further to lick Jeff Bezos's boots in order to get Amazon to film the LOTR TV show there, and Amazon still ultimately went "gently caress you, we're filming the rest of this in London" after wrapping on Season 1. You could say Peter Jackson bookended it.
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Sep 3, 2021 17:21
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An insane mind posted:Remember when being stupid had actual consequences? But then they just gave the night king a dragon because they sent all main characters to fetch a wight but then it turned out fine because nk is weak to jumping. This is kind of where I thought the ending was going. That the mistake was playing the "Game of Thrones" at all, and Cersei choosing to sit out would have dire, horrific consequences for her; to whit, all her enemies would unify together, and come together to destroy her completely and utterly. Instead it turns out she was totally right to sit it out. Frankly I thought the message was "you cannot afford to sit out the apocalypse in the hopes someone else solves it; you need to contribute to saving everyone or else you don't deserve to be saved." Instead Dany was the only one who suffered Real Consequences for helping against the Literal End Of The World and it contributed to her going down the trail to crazy town... and we all can see how well the fandom accepted that.
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Sep 3, 2021 18:27
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An insane mind posted:Remember when being stupid had actual consequences? But then they just gave the night king a dragon because they sent all main characters to fetch a wight but then it turned out fine because nk is weak to jumping. He's weak to getting stabbed in the dick to death.
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Sep 6, 2021 15:41
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SimonChris posted:That's pretty much explicitly stated in the book (very minor book spoilers, I guess): It also comes right after they foil a plot to have Robert killed in the melee tournament. It's made very clear they're setting up a lot of potential "accidents", the boar is just the one that happened to work.
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Sep 6, 2021 16:37
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It seems way more northeners should have died during the attack on winterfell. The undead got past the walls, into the inner keep, even into the crypts... How did they still have an army after that?
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Sep 6, 2021 16:44
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Collapsing Farts posted:It seems way more northeners should have died during the attack on winterfell. The undead got past the walls, into the inner keep, even into the crypts... How did they still have an army after that? To say nothing of the fact that there are still Dothraki soldiers at Dany's disposal despite them being slaughtered almost to a man.
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Sep 6, 2021 16:54
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The armies just kind of forgot that all of their soldiers died. 
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Sep 6, 2021 17:51
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:The armies just kind of forgot that all of their soldiers died. I will never get tired of the fact that Danny forgetting about a massive and dangerous navy is loving cannon.
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Sep 6, 2021 18:17
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moosecow333 posted:I will never get tired of the fact that Danny forgetting about a massive and dangerous navy is loving cannon. Especially since they could have got to the same outcome by, for example, Dany sees the fleet, says "I've got dragons I can take them", she gets close and Euron pulls away tarps that were covering the ballistas. Same results but derived from her hubris instead of her lack of object permanence.
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Sep 6, 2021 18:52
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Qwertycoatl posted:Especially since they could have got to the same outcome by, for example, Dany sees the fleet, says "I've got dragons I can take them", she gets close and Euron pulls away tarps that were covering the ballistas. Yeah, or even if they don't cover the tarps just have her be like "they can't hit us!" go in, burn some ships, start to look like she's winning and then one dragon gets heatshot with a lucky ballista and she then flees. The whole "ships come out of nowhere" thing just makes no sense. You can't hide a ship behind a small island from something flying thousands of feet in the air.
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Sep 6, 2021 19:02
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Sky Shadowing posted:This is kind of where I thought the ending was going. That the mistake was playing the "Game of Thrones" at all, and Cersei choosing to sit out would have dire, horrific consequences for her; to whit, all her enemies would unify together, and come together to destroy her completely and utterly.
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Sep 6, 2021 19:08
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Baron von Eevl posted:He's weak to getting stabbed in the dick to death. Heck, same
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Sep 6, 2021 23:33
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That last season just felt so deeply insulting to me, as a viewer. And given how much I really adored the show and mythology at one point, I thought I could forgive drat near any crappy direction this show could possibly go in. But I didn't take into account that I could feel fundamentally disrespected by a TV show, but there you go. I will say that GoT created a somewhat unique situation. I really can't think of many other IPs that experienced such an extreme and severe drop in quality, certainly not any recent ones. I also used to think that the "journey" always counted more than the "destination", and I thought that any show that was good for a period of time would always be good no matter how bad it got by the end. Boy, was I wrong about that one - now I know that a show ABSOLUTELY can get bad enough at the end to completely eviscerate any enjoyment that could possibly be gleaned from those early seasons. I truly never knew that a franchise could deteriorate to such an extreme degree. Like, I remember back in the summer of 2017, Twin Peaks: The Return aired first and then Season 7 of Game of Thrones started up as well, and I remember thinking at the time that I had an approximately equal degree of interest in keeping abreast of both shows as they aired week-by-week, which now seems.... utterly insane, that I could have even had them in the same folder on my computer at one point.
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Sep 6, 2021 23:36
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kaworu posted:That last season just felt so deeply insulting to me, as a viewer. And given how much I really adored the show and mythology at one point, I thought I could forgive drat near any crappy direction this show could possibly go in. But I didn't take into account that I could feel fundamentally disrespected by a TV show, but there you go. The end of the show does make rewatching it pretty difficult. You have this sense of dread, especially in season 5, not of main characters dying... mostly because by that point they stopped (in any kind of elegantly written way), but because you know the show is about to make you horribly angry. With a show like Game of Thrones that's really rough. I can skip watching some season 7 episodes of Star Trek TNG if I watch through, because nobody really needs to see Masks or Sub Rosa for a 20th time. Even if I absolutely hate the episodes and whatever. Game of Thrones not only has the problem of hating later episodes which isn't an uncommon problem, they exacerbated it by limiting the number of episodes and squeezing as much as they did. It's just doubly bad.
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Sep 7, 2021 00:12
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Vichan posted:To say nothing of the fact that there are still Dothraki soldiers at Dany's disposal despite them being slaughtered almost to a man. My favorite little detail of badness is that when she's making her speech in the final episode, she's delivering it in High Valyrian to her army, 2/3rd of which likely has no idea what she just said to them.
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Sep 7, 2021 02:14
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:My favorite little detail of badness is that when she's making her speech in the final episode, she's delivering it in High Valyrian to her army, 2/3rd of which likely has no idea what she just said to them. lol now I'm picturing a bunch of people in an army milling around uncomfortably trying to figure out whether it's time to clap or cheer or whateva
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Sep 7, 2021 02:20
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Lena Headey is the one to blame for Cersei being a bad character in the show. She was so good in the role and so god drat charismatic both in the show and real life, the character became a symbol in pop culture for being a #girlboss. The whole reveal that Cersei is a sociopathic idiot narcissist who only succeeded because her lack of a conscience made it easy for her to sabotage allies, but incompetent at actually ruling or winning, would not have gone over well with a huge segment of the viewership. It's the same reason they had to start removing all the subplots about how she doesn't care about being faithful to Jaime in the slightest. Or where in the early seasons the fact she has incest babies with her brother is treated as horrifying and a sign of her being unhinged, but then in the back half they suddenly decide that no, incest is good and Cersei is brave and noble for doing it. And all of a sudden Jaime and Cersei's relationship is treated as romantic star-crossed lovers instead of some hosed up poo poo Jaime needs to get over.
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Sep 7, 2021 09:57
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Super Deuce posted:
Such is the problem with this golden age of TV. You cut Game of Thrones into the good half, you have 40 or so episodes of good TV. Cut The Simpsons into quarters as this point and you have 150 good ones.
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Sep 7, 2021 09:59
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galagazombie posted:Lena Headey is the one to blame for Cersei being a bad character in the show. She was so good in the role and so god drat charismatic both in the show and real life, the character became a symbol in pop culture for being a #girlboss. The whole reveal that Cersei is a sociopathic idiot narcissist who only succeeded because her lack of a conscience made it easy for her to sabotage allies, but incompetent at actually ruling or winning, would not have gone over well with a huge segment of the viewership. It's the same reason they had to start removing all the subplots about how she doesn't care about being faithful to Jaime in the slightest. Or where in the early seasons the fact she has incest babies with her brother is treated as horrifying and a sign of her being unhinged, but then in the back half they suddenly decide that no, incest is good and Cersei is brave and noble for doing it. And all of a sudden Jaime and Cersei's relationship is treated as romantic star-crossed lovers instead of some hosed up poo poo Jaime needs to get over. I'd have put the responsibility for the creative bankruptcy of the writers at the feet of the writers instead of the actors, but I get where you're coming from.
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Sep 7, 2021 10:23
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The writers were just too cowardly to properly emphasis the real theme of the story - that bitches all be crazy.
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Sep 7, 2021 10:37
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galagazombie posted:Lena Headey is the one to blame for Cersei being a bad character in the show. She was so good in the role and so god drat charismatic both in the show and real life, the character became a symbol in pop culture for being a #girlboss. The whole reveal that Cersei is a sociopathic idiot narcissist who only succeeded because her lack of a conscience made it easy for her to sabotage allies, but incompetent at actually ruling or winning, would not have gone over well with a huge segment of the viewership. It's the same reason they had to start removing all the subplots about how she doesn't care about being faithful to Jaime in the slightest. Or where in the early seasons the fact she has incest babies with her brother is treated as horrifying and a sign of her being unhinged, but then in the back half they suddenly decide that no, incest is good and Cersei is brave and noble for doing it. And all of a sudden Jaime and Cersei's relationship is treated as romantic star-crossed lovers instead of some hosed up poo poo Jaime needs to get over. If that's true, how come they made Dany go crazy? She had a bigger fan following than Cersei
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Sep 7, 2021 11:14
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One of the more well liked plots in the second half of the books is Jaime becoming a better person without Cersei’s influence while she gets worse, but they send him on a stealth mission to Dorne instead.
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Sep 7, 2021 12:55
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Never forget
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Sep 7, 2021 14:05
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I'm mad the show took away
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Sep 7, 2021 14:15
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It's really funny they hosed over their chance at Star Wars by speedrunning the end when HBO would've let them go as long as they wanted and they did it specifically to move on to Star Wars and their slavery show.
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Sep 7, 2021 14:18
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galagazombie posted:Lena Headey is the one to blame for Cersei being a bad character in the show. She was so good in the role and so god drat charismatic both in the show and real life, the character became a symbol in pop culture for being a #girlboss. The whole reveal that Cersei is a sociopathic idiot narcissist who only succeeded because her lack of a conscience made it easy for her to sabotage allies, but incompetent at actually ruling or winning, would not have gone over well with a huge segment of the viewership. It's the same reason they had to start removing all the subplots about how she doesn't care about being faithful to Jaime in the slightest. Or where in the early seasons the fact she has incest babies with her brother is treated as horrifying and a sign of her being unhinged, but then in the back half they suddenly decide that no, incest is good and Cersei is brave and noble for doing it. And all of a sudden Jaime and Cersei's relationship is treated as romantic star-crossed lovers instead of some hosed up poo poo Jaime needs to get over. Why can likable/charismatic people not be unhinged narcissist sociopaths, exactly?
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Sep 7, 2021 15:01
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Drunk in Space posted:Never forget It's how this fucks Brienne that really burns my biscuit. If her relationship with Jaime is strictly platonic then her writing in the White Book about him is her honouring the one person who actually respected her, which is knightly as hell. But instead it's a scorned woman pining for her lover, and it's awful.
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Sep 7, 2021 15:21
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galagazombie posted:Lena Headey is the one to blame for Cersei being a bad character in the show. She was so good in the role and so god drat charismatic both in the show and real life, the character became a symbol in pop culture for being a #girlboss. The whole reveal that Cersei is a sociopathic idiot narcissist who only succeeded because her lack of a conscience made it easy for her to sabotage allies, but incompetent at actually ruling or winning, would not have gone over well with a huge segment of the viewership. It's the same reason they had to start removing all the subplots about how she doesn't care about being faithful to Jaime in the slightest. Or where in the early seasons the fact she has incest babies with her brother is treated as horrifying and a sign of her being unhinged, but then in the back half they suddenly decide that no, incest is good and Cersei is brave and noble for doing it. And all of a sudden Jaime and Cersei's relationship is treated as romantic star-crossed lovers instead of some hosed up poo poo Jaime needs to get over. It got talked about either here or in the Book Thread, but it's as much the fault of the directors, producers, cinematographers, composers, etc., as anybody else for GoT's Girlboss* problem. Yes, Lena is one of the greatest actors (male or female) ever and even when her only material was to look scared of a distant CGI dragon she did the best anyone could have done, but she didn't position the cameras to make her look like a badass, or arrange and direct triumphant music to play over her sociopathic actions, or directing herself in a way that made suburban wine moms to want to share memes of her. She was given a script, direction, actors to play off of, and sets/costumes, just like any of the other actors. I think it just goes back to bad writers not having material to work with while simultaneously cherry-picking material that they wanted, while their obsession with character deaths pared away at any possible tension**. *and you know, we complain about Girlboss Syndrome, but it's really just female characters being given the same power fantasies that have always been traditionally bestowed to male characters. **Lord deliver me from the modern obsession with "stakes" in modern fantasy being interpreted as having the highest possible death toll thanks to GoT.
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Sep 7, 2021 16:42
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:There is basically no way for GRRM to get to the ending, namely why the gently caress would Bran become king, without rushing it almost as badly as the show. Unless he either extends the series to like 10 books or does a 5 year jump after all. I forgot that Bran became the king. Stupid.
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Sep 7, 2021 17:01
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Really the smartest thing Tyrion could do after the finale scene is have Bronn immediately assassinated, because Bronn will absolutely keep betraying and murdering people.
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Sep 7, 2021 17:08
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Van Dis posted:Really the smartest thing Tyrion could do after the finale scene is have Bronn immediately assassinated, because Bronn will absolutely keep betraying and murdering people. Easier said than done. Besides, does Bronn betray anyone but Cersei?
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Sep 7, 2021 17:14
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Van Dis posted:Really the smartest thing Tyrion could do after the finale scene is have Bronn immediately assassinated, because Bronn will absolutely keep betraying and murdering people. You mean the guy that threatened to murder him and punched him square in the nose who frequently reminds him that he’d kill him if someone else paid more? Anyways, the move actually makes total sense for Tyrion. Keeping an enemy close is a great idea. Making him master of coin is... not. Unless he wants him to take the future fall when the Iron Bank comes calling?
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Sep 7, 2021 18:19
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Bronn getting literally anything at all made no sense. He did the fantasy equivalent of kidnapping a presidential candidate's chief of staff and demanding a promise to be made governor of texas
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Sep 7, 2021 18:25
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I mean if you're gonna make Bronn something, make him Master of War or give him the City Watch again and bump it up to a Small Council position. You know, poo poo he'd be really good at but no, GoT has to make him Master of Coin because funny joke!!!
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Sep 7, 2021 19:20
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The fact that Bronn's character arc was snipped off at the finish line is really near the top of the poo poo Mountain for me. Seven seasons having a mercenary rear end in a top hat develop a genuine friendship with his employers and rise to a position of authority and wealth where he could stand on equal footing to them through genuine merit, only to have him end on a stick-up worthy of a spaghetti western having learned nothing from it all. The thing that really pisses me off about it is that there was even a way to salvage that whole stupidity in my mind because when Bronn brings up what a sham Lordship is to justify why they should buy him with it, he's not only right, but he's talking to the two men in all of Westeros that should know it better than anyone, the scions of the house of Lann The Clever, who became a lord by stealing House Casterly's castle, gold and eldest daughter. You could have gotten to the same ending point without betraying Bronn's character with just a little bit more effort and attention to the established world and themes. But then again you can write that same sentence and replace Bronn's name with a lot of characters, because every character who didn't end up in a completely stupid place ended up in a defensible place stupidly.
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Sep 7, 2021 19:37
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Bronn only existed by the end because of fan popularity.
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Sep 7, 2021 19:48
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That scene where Qyburn gives the crossbow to Bronn always bugged me. It was such a cheap-looking scene. It felt like it took place inside a cheap set of an empty room in an empty city.
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Sep 7, 2021 19:50
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