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Barudak posted:debating if I was gonna have to shovel a shambler need that cheevo
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Sep 7, 2021 17:48
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Narcissus1916 posted:I finished Masters of Doom and it really gives credit to Carmack's programming brilliance. I did some more research and it looks like some modern game titles (Call of duty, I guess?) are STILL using remnants of Quake 1 or 2's code? is that accurate? IF so, that is absolutely bonkers. It's a Ship of Theseus situation really Can you trace back the lineage of Source, Titanfall/Apex and Call of Duty to the Quake engine? Yes Is there anything of note that hasn't been rewritten from scratch at this point? Probably not
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Sep 7, 2021 17:53
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There's this: https://twitter.com/80Level/status/1404484496884445184 But I'm no programmer so I don't know if it's code exactly or something else.
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Sep 7, 2021 18:10
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it's morse code for "no hl3"
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Sep 7, 2021 18:12
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Quantum of Phallus posted:it's morse code for "no hl3" more credence that carmack is an n-dimensional thought demon
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Sep 7, 2021 18:15
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It seems like it's just the timing, which might be algorithmic, in which case it's probable that they just re-used the same function because it works well enough. But the actual lighting calculations (ie how the light bounces off of the materials in order to illuminate the space) would be entirely different between engines. I'd be curious to see if it is a function. Game devs come up with cool, simple solutions to stuff like that sometimes. Like "take the sine of the current game tic, multiply it by some factor X, and if it's within some pre-defined range of numbers, leave the light on"
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Sep 7, 2021 18:15
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It's from here in the Quake engine https://github.com/id-Software/Quake/blob/master/QW/progs/world.qc#L303 Light flickers are defined as strings of characters, and those old Quake presets have survived in Source because they still get the job done
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Sep 7, 2021 18:18
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bro
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Sep 7, 2021 18:51
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Quantum of Phallus posted:it's morse code for "no hl3" 
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Sep 7, 2021 18:51
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repiv posted:It's from here in the Quake engine Nice find! I like that the brightnesses are just ASCII-encoded.
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Sep 7, 2021 19:00
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What are the chances that games have just been reusing the enemy AI from Quake all these years and no one has noticed?
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Sep 7, 2021 19:29
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if it ain't broke don't fix it
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Sep 7, 2021 20:08
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Dramicus posted:What are the chances that games have just been reusing the enemy AI from Quake all these years and no one has noticed?
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Sep 7, 2021 20:22
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The deeper you dig into a game’s source, the more you find code that is: -so basic and simple that it’s useful in pretty much every game that will ever be created -so abstract and general that it’s hard to call it the signature of a particular project Bungie just posted a tech blog in which they mention that Destiny 2 is using some controller input reading code that’s 20 years old (as in, written for the original Halo engine). And they may have very low-level libraries whose purpose can’t be explained easily to non-coders that are even older. haveblue fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Sep 7, 2021 |
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Sep 7, 2021 20:25
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repiv posted:It's a Ship of Theseus situation really I'd imagine there's probably some very low-level stuff that still exists, so even when they say the IW engine was "completely rebuilt" for version 8.0 I imagine there's some stuff that still exists from iDTech 3 in there, somewhere.
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Sep 7, 2021 20:30
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That is wild and so, so cool. There was an excellent twitter topic a year or two ago where game devs talked about all the ways they fudged programming or game mechanics. I can't recall which but a developer of a beloved PSX-era racer admitted that the stats they showed on the car select screen were entirely bullshit - all the cars were identical.
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Sep 7, 2021 21:00
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relevant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L7WqSUP5ng&t=982s
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Sep 7, 2021 21:08
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The Kins posted:The "dumb" AI Carmack wrote for the original 2D Catacomb game in 1990 was reused in every single game Id put out (Doom and Quake included) until Doom 3 in 2004, with one exception (Q3A). It might have snuck into later games, but we don't have the source to check. drat I didn't know that. I don't know if praise him for doing a good job at Catacomb, or lambasting him for using it still in Quake 1/2.
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Sep 7, 2021 21:21
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Narcissus1916 posted:That is wild and so, so cool. There was an excellent twitter topic a year or two ago where game devs talked about all the ways they fudged programming or game mechanics. Have you even wondered how the subway in Fallout 3 works? https://www.pcgamer.com/heres-whats-happening-inside-fallout-3s-metro-train/
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Sep 7, 2021 21:29
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Dramicus posted:What are the chances that games have just been reusing the enemy AI from Quake all these years and no one has noticed? Incredibly low, especially since the AI in Quake is mostly in QuakeC. It is also pretty stupid and can’t meaningfully navigate the level in anyway at all. It wouldn’t be very useful in any newer engines. Boring stuff like controls or network protocols are what survive 20 years, rarely anything that is gameplay facing.
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Sep 7, 2021 22:42
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I think the "reused AI" basically amounts to the routine that determines which direction to walk in case the current direction is blocked.
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Sep 7, 2021 22:54
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Arivia posted:more credence that carmack is an n-dimensional thought demon And feline euthanasia enthusiast.
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Sep 7, 2021 23:08
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Sep 7, 2021 23:40
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Narcissus1916 posted:I finished Masters of Doom and it really gives credit to Carmack's programming brilliance. I did some more research and it looks like some modern game titles (Call of duty, I guess?) are STILL using remnants of Quake 1 or 2's code? is that accurate? IF so, that is absolutely bonkers. I know nothing about programming especially video game programming but iirc the last great FPS Titanfall 2 uses a modified Source engine. Source of course came out of GldSrc, which itself is derived from Quake 1 tech. Makes you think. (Or makes me think)
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Sep 8, 2021 00:00
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Solaris 2.0 posted:I know nothing about programming especially video game programming but iirc the last great FPS Titanfall 2 uses a modified Source engine. And that whole lineage is incestuous, where the Respawn folks are all ex-CoD devs who built the IW engine and launched that franchise. Prior to that the founders of Infinity Ward all worked on Medal of Honor, an id Tech 3 title.
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Sep 8, 2021 05:44
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Respawn being actually really good is bizarre considering the poo poo they started out working on.
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Sep 8, 2021 05:45
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Casimir Radon posted:Respawn being actually really good is bizarre considering the poo poo they started out working on. What do you mean? Their first game was Titanfall, which was amazing.
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Sep 8, 2021 05:47
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MJBuddy posted:What do you mean? Their first game was Titanfall, which was amazing.
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Sep 8, 2021 05:49
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Casimir Radon posted:Respawn being actually really good is bizarre considering the poo poo they started out working on.
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Sep 8, 2021 05:49
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Ok, so forgot that COD mostly started going downhill after Activision fired West and Zampella so they could be screwed out of their bonuses.
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Sep 8, 2021 05:54
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And Respawn before splitting from EA the first time made Medal of Honor so their track is really amazing.
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Sep 8, 2021 05:59
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My understanding is that Half-Life/GoldSrc is a heavily modified Quake 1 (with a couple of network fixes from Quake 2 that ended up getting rewritten in a patch anyway), that they just kept building on for Source. Source went through a bunch of different "branches" over the years for different projects and new features, Titanfall 1 took the Portal 2 branch (since it had PS3 support, you know, before the Xbone exclusivity deal  ) and heavily modified it to fit their requirements and workflow preferences (ie. using Radiant for their editor!), and Titanfall 2 and Apex just keep building on and rewriting bits of that until it's basically its own beast.I could have swore Call of Duty did a big tech rewrite at some point, but they're still crediting Id Tech in their legal crawls as recently as Modern Warfare 2019, so there's probably still a few bits of shrapnel in that particular leg.
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Sep 8, 2021 06:19
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also, regardless of what else you think about them, the cod games are technically excellent. nearly always aiming for 60fps on ps360 gen hardware was commendable
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Sep 8, 2021 07:39
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Yeah, with the awful hardware these consoles had, they looked quite good and ran smooth even on MP (P2P and people having poo poo connections is a different matter). I have no shame to admit that I played the poo poo out of every CoD game up to Black Ops 1 (CoD4, MW2 and Blops with almost 1000 hours each on Xbox360).
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Sep 8, 2021 07:49
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finished the first 2 episodes of DOOM on switch last night, drat it's still good, i never played it through like this before. what a great game 
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Sep 8, 2021 08:10
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Quantum of Phallus posted:finished the first 2 episodes of DOOM on switch last night, drat it's still good, i never played it through like this before. what a great game Doom was, is, and will be absolutely phenomenal. Play through some Doom 2 then quake next. Romero's Sigil for Doom 1 is real good, too, if you want a smooth continuation of Doom 1
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Sep 8, 2021 10:10
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Star Trek: Elite Force and Elite Force 2, among other Star Trek games, have been re-released by Activision (so take it as you will) on GOG to mark both the franchise's 55th anniversary and the 100th birthday of Gene Roddenberry. They're $11 each.
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Sep 8, 2021 11:26
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drat, i loved EF2 back in the day. I didn't even like star trek but i remember playing it at a friend's house and thinking all the interactivity was really cool
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Sep 8, 2021 11:39
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The Kins posted:Star Trek: Elite Force and Elite Force 2, among other Star Trek games, have been re-released by Activision (so take it as you will) on GOG to mark both the franchise's 55th anniversary and the 100th birthday of Gene Roddenberry. They're $11 each. 
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Sep 8, 2021 12:08
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waiting for the Klingon FMV game where Gowron uses the Holodeck to teach you how good HONOUR is Last I tried it in dosbox it crashed a lot, but that was a fair few years ago
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Sep 8, 2021 12:25
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