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King Vidiot posted:I'm, uh, way more willing to forgive Quentin Tarantino than, say, Dan Schneider. This is what I was trying to get at before. Does great art make these transgressions more excusable, somehow? Seems like it does. I mean, whether I agree with that or not, I feel some inherent cultural bias telling me that it's somehow OK or not as bad when truly brilliant/gifted people do this sort of thing as opposed to when some schlub does it.
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 18:43 |
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# ? Jun 7, 2024 13:18 |
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I mean I was more referring to the fact that Dan Schneider is a pedophile, I think that's the bigger issue here.
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 18:45 |
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The only real problem with feet guys the ones who do the pretending it's not sexual and try to insert it into inappropriate situations. Though I assume most feet people understand social boundaries and just don't bring it up in inappropriate situations.kaworu posted:This is what I was trying to get at before. Does great art make these transgressions more excusable, somehow? Seems like it does. I mean, whether I agree with that or not, I feel some inherent cultural bias telling me that it's somehow OK or not as bad when truly brilliant/gifted people do this sort of thing as opposed to when some schlub does it.
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 18:53 |
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I read some interviews on Dusk til Dawn to see if Salma ever brought up the toe sucking, but the most I could find about that moment was Clooney complaining* that he's the one getting degraded by Salma during that sequence. That and she was terrified of snakes and had to be talked into doing it, Tarantino even said something like, "you know Madonna really wants your role", but in the end was happy she stuck it out and got over her fear *with Tarantino responding, "I'm the writer that's why"
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 18:59 |
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Basebf555 posted:It's not really about the fact that he has a thing with feet, it's that he's bringing it into the workplace and using his position as a director to get women to participate in his fetish with him. It's unprofessional at best. The comparison to Weinstein is obviously off-base though. Yeah, but he’s an actor in the film, working on a scene that made it to final cut. You’re misrepresenting the context of the filming of those scenes in a major way. It’s not like Tarantino randomly decided to start sucking Salma Hayek’s toes on-set, or forced her to let him into her trailer so he could demand some quality time with her feet in exchange for keeping her job “because I’m the director”. He didn’t gratuitously shoot foot scenes for his own enjoyment and then not put them in the final movie. Tarantino doesn’t make actresses send him lewd feet pics as a condition of keeping their job or coerce them into casting couch foot fetish situations. If a sex scene, or a sexually explicit scene, or a scene with some kind of fetish thing (bondage, paraphilia, etc) is happening onscreen and it was pre-negotiated, and handled professionally, and it makes it into the final film as a plot beat, and everybody who participated in it feels professionally ok about it having happened then it’s not really inappropriate, is it? Do we feel like Lena Dunham behaved inappropriately on the set of GIRLS by writing sexually explicit scenes between her character and Adam Driver’s? What about Lars von Trier and the production of Nymphomaniac? Did he take advantage of Charlotte Gainsbourg in an unprofessional manner by filming hours and hours of graphic sex scenes? When Michael Fassbender jacks off in Shame, is Steve McQueen being unprofessional in getting that shot? What if he was gay or sexually attracted to men who look like Fassbender, would it be inappropriate then?
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 22:02 |
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He put them in the movie explicitly so he had an excuse to do those things in a way that everyone would accept was legitimate while inside he was probably just super stoked that he got to suck some toes. It’s not difficult to see why that’s gross.
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 22:06 |
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History Comes Inside! posted:He put them in the movie explicitly so he had an excuse to do those things in a way that everyone would accept was legitimate while inside he was probably just super stoked that he got to suck some toes. And you know that because.....
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 22:09 |
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Ghost Leviathan posted:While I get there's weird stuff going on with Tarantino, people seem really eager to stretch for any possible excuse to cancel him.
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 22:09 |
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Ok Comboomer posted:And you know that because..... Why did he write that scene into the film?
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 22:30 |
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:Why did he write that scene into the film? Screenwriters sometimes put things they find sexy into their scripts.
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 22:38 |
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Human Tornada posted:Screenwriters sometimes put things they find sexy into their scripts. And when they write themselves doing those things they find sexy to their co-stars, it’s gross, yes.
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 22:42 |
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History Comes Inside! posted:And when they write themselves doing those things they find sexy to their co-stars, it’s gross, yes. So you’re saying that if Tarantino had written a scene where George Clooney sucked Salma Hayek’s toes instead it would’ve been completely above-board? And you’re agreeing that it was inappropriate for Dunham to write nude scenes featuring herself and her costars then, right?
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 22:50 |
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History Comes Inside! posted:And when they write themselves doing those things they find sexy to their co-stars, it’s gross, yes. Yes, yes, we all hate Woody Allen
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 22:50 |
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Ok Comboomer posted:So you’re saying that if Tarantino had written a scene where George Clooney sucked Salma Hayek’s toes instead it would’ve been completely above-board? If it was written and filmed to solely enable George Clooney's foot fetish, which I'm not saying exists, it would be equally as problematic. And if Dunham wrote those scenes so she could get nude with her costars, yes, it would be equally as inappropriate.
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 23:13 |
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sponges posted:Tarintino doesn’t come across as a particularly nice person. He mentioned recently that he doesn’t help out his mom financially because she told him not to be a filmmaker when he was a kid. I would bet my life on the fact that he's probably a complete rear end in a top hat or just an insufferable person but having read his statements about that and articles talking about it it sounds like his relationship with his mother was a lot more toxic than her disapproving of his aspirations of film making. Ok Comboomer posted:Yeah, but he’s an actor in the film, working on a scene that made it to final cut. You’re misrepresenting the context of the filming of those scenes in a major way. Did you miss the article someone posted where the very same actor said the producer of the film she was poured her heart and soul into demanded she do a sex scene? Obviously Tarantino isn't anywhere near as bad as Weinstein but he wrote a part for his character to indulge in his own personal fetish on screen. And women very famously have less agency and power in the film industry than men. Especially in the early 90s when that movie was made and she was still up and coming. She similarly had an experience making Desperado where she was terrified of doing the sex scene and has said she cried doing it. It's probably safe to say that she was exploited a number of times in the early days of her career which is the exact problem this thread is about. quote:Though the movie “Desperado” was released more than two decades ago, actress and producer Salma Hayek still cringes at the sex scene in the 1995 film. Maybe making the actor shove her foot in your mouth for no reason that serves the plot or the script is actually bad and creepy especially when they probably don't have enough agency to tell you to gently caress off. I don't think Tarantino is some Weinstein level predator but it's still pretty gross and if you don't at least give something like this the side eye then I don't know what to tell you.
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 23:25 |
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You can enjoy Tarantino's movies while also thinking he's a little bit gross and weird. And also yes, there are plenty of people who go out of their way to let you know that they both don't like him and don't like his movies.
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 23:39 |
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A lot more than usual now.
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# ? Sep 9, 2021 23:41 |
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Jesus Christ shut the gently caress up about feet, Tarantino and Tarantino's interactions with feet.
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 00:15 |
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King Vidiot posted:You can enjoy Tarantino's movies while also thinking he's a little bit gross and weird. And also yes, there are plenty of people who go out of their way to let you know that they both don't like him and don't like his movies. I actually do like his movies but he probably sucks as a person or at the very least is extremely annoying.
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 00:38 |
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oh dear he's really put his foot in it
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 00:42 |
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You are being extremely loving weird about a man you know next to nothing about as a person.
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 00:42 |
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CPL593H posted:I would bet my life on the fact that he's probably a complete rear end in a top hat or just an insufferable person but having read his statements about that and articles talking about it it sounds like his relationship with his mother was a lot more toxic than her disapproving of his aspirations of film making. So you’re comparing one interaction that Salma Hayek had with a specific filmmaker, which she has never described unfavorably, to two other interactions that she had with a different filmmaker and with Harvey Weinstein, which she has explicitly called out. Did you deliberately ignore the part in my post where I said “and everybody involved agrees that it happened professionally and is ok with it” to make your point? Because as far as I know Salma Hayek doesn’t appear to have any quotes about being coerced into doing the toe sucking scene or feel degraded by it. As far as I know she maintains a positive relationship with Quentin Tarantino and hasn’t come out with any interviews about how he specifically exploited her desire to make films in order to shoot a gratuitous foot scene. If you actually want to use your example properly, then isn’t it telling that Hayek has plenty of interviews explicitly naming and describing filmmakers who exploited her and moments from her career where she feels she was exploited, and yet From Dusk Till Dawn never gets mentioned in that list? And it’s not like journalists haven’t asked her about Tarantino or about that scene multiple times over the years, either. You say that the scene doesn’t serve the plot or script, and yet it’s in the final cut of the film. What about it, specifically, doesn’t serve the plot? What makes it more gratuitous than other scenes in the movie? Is it the fact that you find it icky? Icky scenes don’t serve plots? We’re talking about the scene 25 years later, so if its purpose was to be memorable then it appears to have done its job. Like obviously the history of filmmaking is rife with sexual exploitation going back to the days of Judy Garland. You don’t need to speculate about the toe-sucking scene in From Dusk Till Dawn to make that point. And you don’t even have to point to specific scenes—in many cases you can just point to whether actresses get cast or not. And obviously many nude scenes and sex scenes throughout film history have exploitative or coercive or dishonest production stories. Plenty of actresses have been cast for scenes because a filmmaker or producer wanted to see their tits. Plenty of actresses have shot scenes, coercively or not, because somebody on the production or sales side of the equation thought it would be titillating in a way that could either advance the film’s message or sell tickets and notoriety. Even in films where the entire plot is sex stuff, this happens. Dakota Johnson has expressed regret and discomfort with the production of the Fifty Shades films on multiple occasions. If you’re going to have this conversation be about broader trends of exploitation and consent-violation in Hollywood when it comes to shooting sexually explicit or titillating scenes/films, then I’m all for it. There’s a lot of good debate to be had about the merit of shooting such scenes and films. Should they be made? Can they ever be shot/written/conceived in a way that is truly equitable and non-exploitative? Does a film like A Clockwork Orange or Eyes Wide Shut suffer for not having graphic sex and sexual violence? What about Platoon, is that film better/worse/the same if we don’t see the assault onscreen? Like no film really needs to have nudity or sex or sexual violence depicted onscreen, right? And what does that say about very explicit or extreme films like Nymphomaniac or Antichrist? Can those ever be decoupled from the studio system and patterns of abuse and misogyny? And what about when actress’ bodies are taken out of the films/shows they’re in and placed without context on the internet? If somebody shoots a scene with breasts or explicit sex or a graphic assault, and some NEET screengrabs it and puts it up on a porn streaming site or Mr Skin or whatever, which happens for pretty much every scene like that in a major film or show, should filmmakers go out of their way to avoid giving people like that fodder? Right now it doesn’t feel like you want to have a reasonable discussion about sexual exploitation in filmmaking. It feels like you want to specifically cancel Quentin Tarantino for putting a scene in a film where he sucked on some toes, and you’re willing to compare it to Harvey Weinstein holding funding for FRIDA up on the condition that Hayek get nude in it, while hiding behind the lampshade of “now I don’t think these are equivalent, but they involve the same actress and....” Like, we don’t even know if he’s actually a foot fetishist or not. It’s just been a meme for 30 years, in large part because he shot that scene.
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 00:43 |
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Honestly all this tracks with me because when I was 15 every one of my theater and indie/emo friends went apeshit over Garden State and after watching it I was like “drat Zach Braff really wrote a whole rear end movie just to make out with Nathalie Portman, that is hosed up” and he’s been on my poo poo list ever since.
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 00:45 |
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Ok Comboomer posted:stuff I'm not trying to cancel him at all. I own a copy every single one of his movies (with the exception of his most recent and Death Proof) including From Dusk Till Dawn. All I'm saying it's the foot scene in From Dusk Till Dawn is loving creepy and it seems like he put it in there for his own satisfaction and not for any artistic or entertainment purposes. I could easily be wrong. Having a foot fetish isn't weird. I don't give a poo poo if people have a foot fetish. But doing poo poo like that is weird. And a lot of women on their way up in the industry get taken advantage of. Salma Hayek is one such actor who had been exploited. Even in the story about Desperado where she didn't say she felt abused or taken advantage of she outright says how uncomfortable she was with doing the sex scene to the point where she still doesn't like it and laments that in her early career she was summed up as sex appeal instead of an actor. That's it.
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 01:08 |
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I know it was his first film and all, but Rodriguez should've told them to stuff it instead of making her go through that.
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 02:54 |
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I think we should give a shout-out to Tommy Wiseau and "The Room" for laying bare this dynamic and making it as obvious as possible. I think every writer/director/actor-type is egotistical enough to have impure motives when it comes to this sort of thing.
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 03:43 |
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kaworu posted:I think we should give a shout-out to Tommy Wiseau and "The Room" for laying bare this dynamic and making it as obvious as possible. I think every writer/director/actor-type is egotistical enough to have impure motives when it comes to this sort of thing. loving hell, the on-set stories about those sex scenes totally killed my fondness for that movie and it’s super obvious onscreen too once you know about it Tommy’s so loving gross
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 03:47 |
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Ok Comboomer posted:loving hell, the on-set stories about those sex scenes totally killed my fondness for that movie It's super obvious before you know about it tbh.
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 19:28 |
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porfiria posted:It's super obvious before you know about it tbh. I read somewhere that the sex scene was the first thing they shot for the Room because as soon as Wiseau saw the girl who played Lisa he just about pounced on her. So yeah that takes the fun out of it.
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 22:13 |
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edogawa rando posted:Why are you surprised that she wants her pound of flesh after getting hosed by her own family for so long? Because if she’s going to go at him with both barrels why is he caving? He won the court case, what’s his motivation?
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 22:43 |
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DeimosRising posted:Because if she’s going to go at him with both barrels why is he caving? He won the court case, what’s his motivation? It's possible that the recent surge in awareness regarding the situation has lead to him being cast out of his various show-biz circles because his name is toxic right now
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# ? Sep 10, 2021 23:13 |
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DeimosRising posted:Because if she’s going to go at him with both barrels why is he caving? He won the court case, what’s his motivation? I assume that she/her lawyer is still pushing because he kind of pulled this poo poo once before. There was a whole rush of headlines promising that he was stepping down, then a big backtrack. If they're smart they keep up the pressure until the ink's dry on any deal.
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# ? Sep 11, 2021 03:33 |
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:I assume that she/her lawyer is still pushing because he kind of pulled this poo poo once before. There was a whole rush of headlines promising that he was stepping down, then a big backtrack. If they're smart they keep up the pressure until the ink's dry on any deal. That's what I'm thinking too, and it's the right loving move. Promises from this man mean nothing, until ink is on paper and he legally has NO control over her life or any chance of ever controlling her again they shouldn't give him any wriggle room to once again ruin his daughter's life.
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# ? Sep 11, 2021 08:11 |
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She should continue to sue him until she gets back all the money he forced her to earn for him. Now that the his unobstructed free ride is over, she should be able to outlast him in court.
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# ? Sep 11, 2021 08:13 |
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CPL593H posted:I'm not trying to cancel him at all. I own a copy every single one of his movies (with the exception of his most recent and Death Proof) including From Dusk Till Dawn. All I'm saying it's the foot scene in From Dusk Till Dawn is loving creepy and it seems like he put it in there for his own satisfaction and not for any artistic or entertainment purposes. I could easily be wrong. Having a foot fetish isn't weird. I don't give a poo poo if people have a foot fetish. But doing poo poo like that is weird. And a lot of women on their way up in the industry get taken advantage of. Salma Hayek is one such actor who had been exploited. Even in the story about Desperado where she didn't say she felt abused or taken advantage of she outright says how uncomfortable she was with doing the sex scene to the point where she still doesn't like it and laments that in her early career she was summed up as sex appeal instead of an actor. Honestly, Uma Thurman's feet in Pulp Fiction seems more gratuitous than Selma Hayek's in From Dusk till Dawn. The entire point of the scene was Vampires were in total domination of the situation and stepping on someone is a sign of domination. Uma Thurman's reveal was hiding the face of the woman on the loving movie poster.
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# ? Sep 11, 2021 16:48 |
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Skwirl posted:Honestly, Uma Thurman's feet in Pulp Fiction seems more gratuitous than Selma Hayek's in From Dusk till Dawn. The entire point of the scene was Vampires were in total domination of the situation and stepping on someone is a sign of domination. Uma Thurman's reveal was hiding the face of the woman on the loving movie poster. yeah but nobody shoots and cuts a movie together thinking about what the theatrical poster is going to look like I’d be surprised if Tarantino really had any say in the design of the poster, especially at that point in his career
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# ? Sep 11, 2021 17:05 |
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Skwirl posted:Honestly, Uma Thurman's feet in Pulp Fiction seems more gratuitous than Selma Hayek's in From Dusk till Dawn. The entire point of the scene was Vampires were in total domination of the situation and stepping on someone is a sign of domination. Uma Thurman's reveal was hiding the face of the woman on the loving movie poster. There's also the conversation about foot rubs, and the taxi driver is barefoot. Not sure if Reservoir Dogs has any feet though. No female characters either.
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# ? Sep 11, 2021 18:25 |
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:You are being extremely loving weird about a man you know next to nothing about as a person. I'm not good friends with Dan Schneider either. You wanna leap to his defense too?
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# ? Sep 11, 2021 20:31 |
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I wonder which other directors are foot men, imprinting their worldview on the zeitgeist step by step
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# ? Sep 11, 2021 20:44 |
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# ? Jun 7, 2024 13:18 |
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Unoriginal Name posted:I'm not good friends with Dan Schneider either. You wanna leap to his defense too? Dan Schneider’s been accused of pedophilia for years and Tarantino hasn’t, but do go on with how the scene from From Dusk Till Dawn proves that he’s a sex pest. Because he’s definitely the weirdo here and not you.
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# ? Sep 11, 2021 21:28 |