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World War Mammories posted:"we don't know yet" does not coalesce into "and then a miracle occurs" But now you've left the door to magic open! In other words, that you have no explanation for or cannot have an explanation for some given phenomenon does not render that phenomenon impossible or unreal.
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Sep 9, 2021 19:02
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Danger posted:i mean this is almost a separate derail from the derail lol. no one was talking about miracles. Danger posted:yes. white chapel, Columbine, 9/11 were blood sacrifices that changed reality, forwards and backwards in time. I don't follow how these two mesh also, I've done some very quick googling to see more about my use of the word "empirical." results like this suggest that "empiricist" has been used to describe marx. dunno if this is commonly accepted, but someone out there thinks it. Perry Mason Jar posted:Honey, I asked for explanation of phenomenological consciousness. that's what I was trying to communicate, perhaps poorly: I have to act as if reality is real because if it isn't, there's nothing to be done. so I therefore have very little interest in "but what if there's stuff that all of our observation and experimentation somehow misses, and therefore efficacious blood sacrifices?" because it's the same thing Perry Mason Jar posted:But now you've left the door to magic open! In other words, that you have no explanation for or cannot have an explanation for some given phenomenon does not render that phenomenon impossible or unreal. at no time have I ever accepted that there "cannot [be] an explanation for" something, dude.
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Sep 9, 2021 19:05
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World War Mammories posted:at no time have I ever accepted that there "cannot [be] an explanation for" something, dude. Yes you did! World War Mammories posted:there's a difference between feeling out the scope of human comprehension and rejecting empirical reality, which exists outside of the human mind, because you can't fit all of it in your head at once. Or are you wanting to pretend it matters if some alien can figure it out but we can't? Or else you never did say there are (human) limits to knowledge and I've misinterpreted you?
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Sep 9, 2021 19:11
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Perry Mason Jar posted:Yes you did! perhaps poor communication on my part. the key you're missing is "at once." we can look at every individual piece and see how they fit together; we can't look at all of it at the same time holistically. just like you can't see a hypercube all at once. the math works out, nothing breaks, but the brain doesn't see in four dimensions, so we have to fudge it with animations to have time substitute for a fourth spatial dimension. or - you can memorize any number of the digits of pi, but you can't memorize pi. e: or, hell, more math - the pythagorean theorem, a^2 + b^2 = c^2. that works in any number of dimensions - two, three, sixteen, a million. no one on earth could create such a thing in four or more dimensions - to look at it 'holistically,' if I'm using that word right - but the math still works out, we can check every step and it's all good. World War Mammories has issued a correction as of 19:20 on Sep 9, 2021 |
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Sep 9, 2021 19:14
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anyway the concept of something "reverberating backwards through time" or whatever doesn't require any of this, just that 1. that there is some mass conception of history 2. that this conception can change in response to other historical events that's it
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Sep 9, 2021 19:20
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World War Mammories posted:perhaps poor communication on my part. the key you're missing is "at once." we can look at every individual piece and see how they fit together; we can't look at all of it at the same time holistically. just like you can't see a hypercube all at once. the math works out, nothing breaks, but the brain doesn't see in four dimensions, so we have to fudge it with animations to have time substitute for a fourth spatial dimension. or - you can memorize any number of the digits of pi, but you can't memorize pi. I think you get my point - that gravity acts on an apple falling from a tree whether you know of or believe in gravity. But you're right with what you said in another post - there is a tendency to inject divinity/magic into knowledge gaps (usually hamfisted and, most importantly, boring!!) that is (most typically) unwarranted and silly. See it a lot with QM these days and Deepak Chopra is odious. I definitely see the world more mystically than you do but there's right and wrong ways to go about it.
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Sep 9, 2021 19:26
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World War Mammories posted:I don't follow how these two mesh quote:also, I've done some very quick googling to see more about my use of the word "empirical." results like this suggest that "empiricist" has been used to describe marx. dunno if this is commonly accepted, but someone out there thinks it. quote:that's what I was trying to communicate, perhaps poorly: I have to act as if reality is real because if it isn't, there's nothing to be done. quote:so I therefore have very little interest in "but what if there's stuff that all of our observation and experimentation somehow misses, and therefore efficacious blood sacrifices?" because it's the same thing
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Sep 9, 2021 19:36
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quote:“In any case, non-philosophy did not invent ‘the real, or the One, or man (every philosopher can take some credit for the latter), or even the idea of a ‘radical immanence (there is Michel Henry and perhaps others as well –Maine de Biran? Marx? [Deleuze]). On the other hand, non-philosophy exists because it invented the true characteristics of the latter, because it took the requirements of radicality seriously and distinguished between the radical and the absolute.” quote:“Ultimately, I see non-philosophers in several different ways. I see them, inevitably, as subjects of the university, as is required by worldly life, but above all as related to three fundamental human types. They are related to the analyst and the political militant, obviously, since non-philosophy is close to psychoanalysis and Marxism –it transforms the subject by transforming instances of philosophy. But they are also related to what I would call the ‘spiritual type –which it is imperative not to confuse with ‘spiritualist. The spiritual are not spiritualists. They are the great destroyers of the forces of philosophy and the state, which band together in the name of order and conformity. The spiritual haunt the margins of philosophy, gnosticism, mysticism, and even of institutional religion and politics. The spiritual are not just abstract, quietist mystics; they are for the world. This is why a quiet discipline is not sufficient, because man is implicated in the world as the presupposed that determines it. Thus, non-philosophy is also related to gnosticism and science-fiction; it answers their fundamental question –which is not at all philosophy’s primary concern–: “Should humanity be saved? And how?” And it is also close to spiritual revolutionaries such as Müntzer and certain mystics who skirted heresy. When all is said and done, is non-philosophy anything other than the chance for an effective utopia? Let me begin in traditional terms: what is the essence, what are the possibilities of non-philosophy? From the outset, it originated from four concerns that were coupled two by two; and hence from dualities.” François Laruelle, A New Presentation of Non-Philosophy
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Sep 9, 2021 19:42
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I just wish Bill Gates would stop putting all these drat cytokines in me.
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Sep 9, 2021 19:53
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Leaked and confirmed. Grimace is a tastebud (wtf!!!!) 
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Sep 9, 2021 20:24
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i always just assumed he was a huge, anthropomorphic chicken nugget that is purple for whatever reason
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Sep 9, 2021 20:28
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Danger posted:There is nothing miraculous about it. They killed a bunch of people. but it didn't change the past. it certainly changed people's perceptions in the present, which affects present material conditions - people's actions are part of material conditions, I'd say, right? - but it didn't go "backwards in time." if you want to make an artistic flourish, okay, but with all the woo floating around you don't want to trip and fall into a pile of that stuff. quote:This article doesn't make any kind of argument that Marx was an empiricist. Marx absolutely valued the empirical, but that is a separate thing than empiricism. For Marx, et al, the empirical is more than what can be observed by the senses and includes the relations between things and phenomena. then I sincerely ask you to help me out on the distinction by explaining like I'm five, because this is the text I'm referring to, in the opening paragraph: quote:Some interpreters have found him to be essentially an empiricist... the latter is essentially what I mean when I say "empirical," but it seems pretty likely I'm running off a meaningfully different definition than you are, and I'm not sure what it is. quote:there is 'stuff' that our observations and experimentations miss because our observations and experimentations are immanent to the 'stuff'. certainly. there's no reason to believe that "magic" means anything or that blood sacrifices "do" anything to reality other than make people react - which does change material conditions, but forgetting the intermediate step means you tumble down the stairs of superstition. --- Perry Mason Jar posted:I think you get my point - that gravity acts on an apple falling from a tree whether you know of or believe in gravity. But you're right with what you said in another post - there is a tendency to inject divinity/magic into knowledge gaps (usually hamfisted and, most importantly, boring!!) that is (most typically) unwarranted and silly. See it a lot with QM these days and Deepak Chopra is odious. I definitely see the world more mystically than you do but there's right and wrong ways to go about it. well, I am satisfied enough with this response, I guess. it's just the same thing with kinases, or cytotoxic t-lymphocytes (that one wasn't you, a different person months ago, just sticks in my mind as a bio nerd). the response to "we don't know everything" is not "well, our current tools probably can't solve that, let's find some new ones in the New Age section at Blockbuster." and it irritates me when we as a species do know something but someone assumes, implicitly or not, that their ignorance is universal. think in mystical terms if you want - it can help people "flatten" ideas that can't fit into the human head, just like animated gifs can "flatten" four-dimensional hypercubes into something you can actually look at. those animated gifs are definitely helpful for getting people to understand something that they cannot visualize. but that's demonstrably not how reality actually works - reality's not a looping gif, it's a hypercube, and if you try to do hypercubic math as if it's in 3D space you will get nonsense. --- skewetoo posted:Leaked and confirmed. Grimace is a tastebud (wtf!!!!) what the gently caress
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Sep 9, 2021 20:55
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World War Mammories posted:well, I am satisfied enough with this response, I guess. it's just the same thing with kinases, or cytotoxic t-lymphocytes (that one wasn't you, a different person months ago, just sticks in my mind as a bio nerd) No, I can't let it stand - it was me, I have to confess. Well actually I dropped a twitter thread I thought interesting but didn't look through carefully and that's what it said - I quietly accepted your correct response. But I was more linking it and interested in it regarding its investors and interested parties, not the science stuff which I (clearly) just glossed over.
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Sep 9, 2021 21:00
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Whoever recommended The Outlaw Bank, thank you!
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Sep 9, 2021 21:06
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lol that jeffrey epstein was obviously murdered and all the recordings in his safe seem to have disappeared down an FBI black hole
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Sep 9, 2021 21:41
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Spergin Morlock posted:lol that jeffrey epstein was obviously murdered and all the recordings in his safe seem to have disappeared down an FBI black hole Idk I assume they ended up in someone else's safe.
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Sep 9, 2021 21:46
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World War Mammories posted:thread, please don't loving convince yourself of the efficacy of magic rituals and poo poo. jesus christ. you're supposed to be leftists. focus on material conditions, not the frothiness of the semen some rear end in a top hat bonesman ejaculates into a coffin ok dude, i'll be praying for u
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Sep 9, 2021 22:03
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World War Mammories posted:but it didn't change the past. it certainly changed people's perceptions in the present, which affects present material conditions - people's actions are part of material conditions, I'd say, right? - but it didn't go "backwards in time." if you want to make an artistic flourish, okay, but with all the woo floating around you don't want to trip and fall into a pile of that stuff. Lenin actually wrote very clearly on this as well when he went back to Hegel: 'Vladymir Lenin' on Hegel posted:Logic is the science not of ex-
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Sep 9, 2021 22:41
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skewetoo posted:Leaked and confirmed. Grimace is a tastebud (wtf!!!!) I thought he was a gallstone.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:46
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World War Mammories posted:so I therefore have very little interest in "but what if there's stuff that all of our observation and experimentation somehow misses, and therefore efficacious blood sacrifices?" me whenever someone dares try to tell me that fMRI is not telling me what the brain do
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Sep 9, 2021 22:58
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the bbc did an article on Havana syndrome and lol. it's like it's coming from INSIDE the CIA! https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58396698 quote:Mr Zaid questions why the US government has been so unwilling to acknowledge a longer history. One possibility, he says, is because it might open a Pandora's Box of incidents that have been ignored over the years. Another is because the US, too, has developed and perhaps even deployed microwaves itself and wants to keep it secret. 
Ramrod Hotshot has issued a correction as of 23:11 on Sep 9, 2021 |
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Sep 9, 2021 23:08
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World War Mammories posted:there's no reason to believe that "magic" means anything or that blood sacrifices "do" anything to reality other than make people react - which does change material conditions, but forgetting the intermediate step means you tumble down the stairs of superstition. Hi can you please point out in the thread where anyone said there were efficacious blood sacrifices as opposed to the properly cynical response of "these idiots believe this blood magic poo poo and actually have the resources to kill people for it," I think I missed it. Regulus74 has issued a correction as of 23:35 on Sep 9, 2021 |
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Sep 9, 2021 23:15
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzMlFFQ2oqQ Aristotle, the first true great master of dialectics, is an empiricist first and foremost (contra the rationalist Plato), and suggests that the past always already teleologically arrives from the future (that's teleology). Although Marx is not a teleological thinker, dialectical materialism has nothing to say about the causal flow of time (whether backwards or forwards). Our most advanced theories of quantum gravity posit that at the fundamental level time ceases to have any material reality at all for God's sake. That's materialism, even if Hegel was right about time all along. Even then Marx, as a hard-nosed materialist, argues that immaterial concepts such as hurrr durrr VALUE have real effects in the material conditioning of our world. To deny that would be reactionary. The elites decide how reality is going to be "in the future" (really!) and then the "present" conforms to it
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Sep 9, 2021 23:23
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I simply create my own reality 
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Sep 9, 2021 23:25
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boy, that jeffrey epstein sure was a character eh?
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Sep 9, 2021 23:26
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I get people being snarky about the seemingly specific thread title, but the thread has grown pretty organically to include an examination of the "deep state" or the "parapolitical" as has been called recently. Also it is absolutely useless to consider the Epstein scandal or Epstein's life itself as some atomized observation of criminal acts. As such, events like the Epstein scandal, Columbine, 9/11, etc absolutely exist as material reality in their relations to other social actors and events and not solely in the observations of their discrete outcomes. As anyone claiming to eschew liberalism, how can they not?
Danger has issued a correction as of 23:33 on Sep 9, 2021 |
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Sep 9, 2021 23:30
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Danger posted:I get people being snarky about the seemingly specific thread title, but the thread has grown pretty organically to include an examination of the "deep state" or the "parapolitical" as has been called recently. Also it is absolutely useless to consider the Epstein scandal or Epstein's life itself as some atomized observation of criminal acts. sure, just not whatever the last 2 or 3 pages have been. cuz lmao
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Sep 9, 2021 23:31
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@nut what do you know about Clifford Olsen canadas most prolific and well paid serial killer? He was of course an rcmp informant pre killings, arested on sexual assualt charges or other things and let go, and once they monitored him after he was suspected in multiple killings hes still able to kill at least 4 more people. Then after hes arested the feds decide to buy the location of the bodies because they have no case https://archive.macleans.ca/article/1982/1/25/100000-soaked-in-blood posted:The break in the case came when Olson had been in jail six days. His first offer of a deal wasn’t for money but, instead, a guarantee that, if convicted of the murders of the missing youngsters, he would do his time in the security of a mental hospital instead of a penitentiary he felt would be filled with inmates ready to kill a child murderer. After lawyer Robert Shantz advised him that the police had no control over sentencing, Olson shifted his demands to money, offering a package deal: $10,000 for every body found. The police were interested: “The prime consideration in recommending the $100,000 plan was to locate bodies which would be solid evidence necessary to prove that Olson was indeed responsible,” the Mountie report reads. idk seems kinda weird
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Sep 9, 2021 23:33
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"materialists" need to understand that if they actually read up on the most advanced theories of causality and time itself then they would realise that neither really have any real existence in those theories, i.e. as fundamental causal explanations of phenomena (if they're anything "real" at all). We don't live in a Newtonian billiard-ball causal world any more, even Hume realised this lol. Marx knew this (that's literally DIALECTICAL materialism) And now the elites know this, and this is how they are able to retroactively determine the world we live in. Be vigilant comrades
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Sep 9, 2021 23:37
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Suplex Liberace posted:idk seems kinda weird I didn’t know anything about it, tho I semi-recently got into some hot tips about some RCMP-Robert Pickton connections
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Sep 9, 2021 23:38
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Spergin Morlock posted:sure, just not whatever the last 2 or 3 pages have been. cuz lmao A lot has been written about vulgar materialism - it's always useful for Marxists to pause and discuss the finer points of the science, especially in the interest of analyzing the machinations of the ruling class as this thread intends.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:44
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:the bbc did an article on Havana syndrome and lol. it's like it's coming from INSIDE the CIA! it would not shock me in the least if misconfigured /something/ being deployed to Us Embassies was causing problems that the US is blaming on other countries.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:50
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my guess years ago was that station chiefs had a new tool to make people they didnt like quit or transfer
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Sep 9, 2021 23:53
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because jeffery loving epstein didnt have a god drat magic temple on his island
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Sep 10, 2021 01:21
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The Saucer Hovers posted:because jeffery loving epstein didnt have a god drat magic temple on his island Isaac Newton was an alchemist John Dee was an occultist https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1380117005261537283?s=19 These people materially determine our world
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Sep 10, 2021 01:33
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it’s like I said earlier. whether or not we can visibly see what sort of material effect the blood sacrifices do. fact of the matter is that the people who blood sacrifice seem to get everything they want in life.
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Sep 10, 2021 01:41
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The_Rob posted:people who blood sacrifice seem to get everything they want in life. 
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Sep 10, 2021 01:44
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multistability posted:Isaac Newton was an alchemist uhh so ur telling me they weren’t neuroengineers?
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Sep 10, 2021 01:45
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https://twitter.com/brooklynmarie/status/1436103057838796826?s=20WESH posted:Judd said Riley was at his friend's home picking up the first aid kit around 7 p.m. Saturday in the area of North Socrum Loop Road. e: reader beware, it gets a lot worse from here
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Sep 10, 2021 01:55
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science clearly explains this
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Sep 10, 2021 02:04
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