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The best thing I see here is replacing the funding from states for school districts that defy anti-mandate laws.
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Sep 9, 2021 20:48
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Craptacular! posted:As one of those liberals, "calling on all states to vaccinate teachers" isn't exactly the strong arm people here were calling for. Some of this amounts to begging for DeSantis and Abbott etc to do the right thing for the millionth time. I really don't see how those two idiots aren't digging their own graves politically (along with the people who live in their states' graves, actually). DeSantis is basically the Lord Humungus of Florida at this point.
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Sep 9, 2021 20:49
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Professor Beetus posted:I can't say any more than this but I know of one particular org going about with the intent to abuse this because of their anti-vax beliefs, and it's infuriating. This is so incredibly frustrating. We talk about masks and studies and poo poo, but I really wish there was something meaningful we could do about these anti-vax shits.
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Sep 9, 2021 20:49
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-Blackadder- posted:I really don't see how those two idiots aren't digging their own graves politically (along with the people who live in their states' graves, actually). They're both up for re-election next year, so we will find out. They sure seem to have decided that the only way forward for them is through the piled-up bodies of their own base.
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Sep 9, 2021 20:50
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Does the executive branch have the authority to mandate vaccines for, say, sitting federal judges? I mean, it would sure be a shame if a bunch of Republican-appointed judges resigned their office to avoid getting vaccinated.
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Sep 9, 2021 20:55
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-Blackadder- posted:Yeah those Aura's were freaking thick, definitely not fun with two of them, but I ended up not being able to get an elastomeric in time since the flight was so last minute. I might try to order an elastomeric in case I have to fly again though. What's the recommended one currently? Two Auras were where you went wrong I think. A single one would have been plenty, medical staff on Covid wards use the same masks without issue (the only difference between the 1870+ and the 9205+ is the 1870 has slightly higher fluid resistance to keep sprayed bodily fluids off the wearer and has gone through additional testing and paperwork to be cleared for use during surgery). Indeed wearing two probably risks having a bad seal or leakage since the seal the masks create is designed with the pressure gradient from breathing in mind.
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Sep 9, 2021 20:59
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How are u posted:They're both up for re-election next year, so we will find out. They sure seem to have decided that the only way forward for them is through the piled-up bodies of their own base. I really liked your earlier phrasing, because as someone for whom Mr. Hands was relatively local news, filling up their base with horse cream would be relevant in at least two ways to their base and particularly Vice President Pence.
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Sep 9, 2021 21:09
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Desantis's approval rating is still about even. Republicans still love what he's doing.
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Sep 9, 2021 21:13
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CNN claims he's going to force large employers to get their employees vaccinated, or weekly tests, as well: https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/joe-biden-covid-speech/index.html
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Sep 9, 2021 21:18
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Professor Beetus posted:Pardon me if I misconstrued, but it sounded a lot like you were essentially saying something to the effect of "oh well if the government won't do anything we'll just shrug and continue to expose a number of people to additional danger and throw our children to the wolves," and being someone of additional risk despite my vaccination status, that really tends to chafe me. So apologies if I was reading you wrong. Nah, definitely the government should go super strict on requiring vaccinations. There's just an upper limit where the most hardcore, 'find phony doctors, lie to the government on official documents, etc.' can probably slip through the cracks. I think that's just the nature of accommodating disability / religious beliefs, and employment is one spot where I draw the line that outright forcing regardless of disability / religion is going too far (forcing when there's not a legitimate reason is A-OK though) Absolutely it should not be an easy process to be exempted.
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Sep 9, 2021 21:21
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enki42 posted:Nah, definitely the government should go super strict on requiring vaccinations. There's just an upper limit where the most hardcore, 'find phony doctors, lie to the government on official documents, etc.' can probably slip through the cracks. I think that's just the nature of accommodating disability / religious beliefs, and employment is one spot where I draw the line that outright forcing regardless of disability / religion is going too far (forcing when there's not a legitimate reason is A-OK though)  And here are my cutie cats from last page, check last page for the long version:  
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Sep 9, 2021 21:27
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Craptacular! posted:As one of those liberals, "calling on all states to vaccinate teachers" isn't exactly the strong arm people here were calling for. Some of this amounts to begging for DeSantis and Abbott etc to do the right thing for the millionth time. Multiple people, including myself, said that building national policy on the expected actions of those two is foolish and that a more aggressive national policy would still do a lot of good. Do you want me to go back and quote my posts, others, or what?
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Sep 9, 2021 21:29
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killer_robot posted:CNN claims he's going to force large employers to get their employees vaccinated, or weekly tests, as well: how are they going to enforce weekly testing. it will just turn into, "we have opted to weekly test our employees... we regret to inform our employees we are unable to find or purchase tests and will forgo this week's tests" every week. there's not going to be a clause that says companies have to shut down if they can't test, that would be suicide with today's supply chain shortages
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Sep 9, 2021 21:58
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-Blackadder- posted:Yeah those Aura's were freaking thick, definitely not fun with two of them, but I ended up not being able to get an elastomeric in time since the flight was so last minute. I might try to order an elastomeric in case I have to fly again though. What's the recommended one currently? DO NOT WEAR TWO N95 MASKS. DO NOT MODIFY OR OTHERWISE gently caress WITH N95 MASKS BEYOND USING A SPLASH COVER STYLE MASK FOR SPLASH PROTECTION. N95 masks are a complete solution for respiratory protection. You should not be putting any other mask above or below them, do not soak them in anything, do not use alcohol on them, do not wash them. Just make sure the seal around your face is good, and the straps are securely in place. That's it. Throw them away when those things are no long true, or the mask becomes soiled. More detailed answer is that the masks are designed to deliver air to a certain standard of filtration (95% or higher across NIOSH tests) at the tested levels of pressure drop. Adding more layers of mask is pretty much only makes pulling in air harder. Your air is already being filtered sufficiently for covid by one of the best N95 masks on the market, you're gaining nothing and losing tons of comfort and risking breaking the seal by having two masks slip around on your face and each other.  Those Aura masks and every other legit 3M mask has been 99%+ filtration in Aaron Collin's setup, filtration on par with p100s in terms of covid protection. The difference between them a elastomeric respirator is the quality of seal, not quality of filtering. And you hosed with the seal by trying to stack two masks. 3M makes very consistently effective masks, please follow their instructions for use.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:02
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mod sassinator posted:how are they going to enforce weekly testing. it will just turn into, "we have opted to weekly test our employees... we regret to inform our employees we are unable to find or purchase tests and will forgo this week's tests" every week. there's not going to be a clause that says companies have to shut down if they can't test, that would be suicide with today's supply chain shortages A lot of this is likely to have spotty enforcement, but it doesn't mean it won't move the numbers.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:10
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killer_robot posted:CNN claims he's going to force large employers to get their employees vaccinated, or weekly tests, as well: Have any of the unions that have been resisting mandated vaccinations without new collective-bargaining agreements responded to these new rules yet?
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Sep 9, 2021 22:13
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wear an aura over every orifice
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Sep 9, 2021 22:14
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Willa Rogers posted:Have any of the unions that have been resisting mandated vaccinations without new collective-bargaining agreements responded to these new rules yet? This is coming through OSHA, not through management. So it's not ceding unconditionally to a demand from the employer. Hopefully that helps for the unions that aren't being led or filled by anti-vaxxers.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:16
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Biden said the federal government will reimburse any educator 100% that had their pay withheld for enforcing mask mandates.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:23
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brugroffil posted:wear an aura over every aurifice
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Sep 9, 2021 22:23
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IK Thread Announcement:Thread has been updated and presence of OOCC has been cleansed. Please feel free to check it out at your leisure, please give feedback if you feel like it. This is the first draft, so grammatical errors and typos are helpful as well, (I am breaking myself of editing too much while I write first drafts). Since it's the first draft I'll continue to take submissions as people provide them. Going to leave it open for a week, then I will pack as many good things into the OP as I can. I'm trying to avoid too many contentious things, and when something makes sense to present a multitude of viewpoints, I will do my best to ensure that happens. And I probably won't add much more about masks since there's active and up to date discussion happening constantly both here and in the CSPAM Covid thread. Thanks again for being awesome.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:26
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How can you enforce any sort of vaccine mandate when there is no meaningful record-keeping as pertains to vaccination? Right now the only proof anyone has of vaccination is a piece of paper - not even laminated - that bears neither a signature nor a stamp or seal of any kind. Not only is this 'proof' trivially easy to fake, but for those too lazy or stupid to do so themselves, cottage industries have already grown up of fascists selling fake vaccination cards to other fascists.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:27
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StrangeThing posted:Data says otherwise: Oregon has a fully vaxxed rate of 58.8% and a population of 4.2 million and here is their report on breakthroughs: https://www.oregon.gov/oha/covid19/Documents/DataReports/Breakthrough-Case-Report.pdf Some highlights: quote:During the week of August 22-28, there were 16,265 cases of COVID-19. 13,673 (84.1%) were And this year they've had 650 hospitalizations and 113 deaths from breakthrough cases, though the vast majority of all cases this year began with the current Delta wave, so I'd estimate around 80% of those numbers are for 1-2 months. I guess you can decide for yourself if that's rare.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:27
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:How can you enforce any sort of vaccine mandate when there is no meaningful record-keeping as pertains to vaccination? It's potentially something they could start doing down the line with boosters and future vaccinations, presumably, if they can somehow find the will to start getting it underway (or have any loving plans to).
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Sep 9, 2021 22:34
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Shifty Pony posted:Two Auras were where you went wrong I think. A single one would have been plenty, medical staff on Covid wards use the same masks without issue (the only difference between the 1870+ and the 9205+ is the 1870 has slightly higher fluid resistance to keep sprayed bodily fluids off the wearer and has gone through additional testing and paperwork to be cleared for use during surgery). jetz0r posted:DO NOT WEAR TWO N95 MASKS. DO NOT MODIFY OR OTHERWISE gently caress WITH N95 MASKS BEYOND USING A SPLASH COVER STYLE MASK FOR SPLASH PROTECTION. I actually did watch some of the mask nerd guys videos before I left and picked up on his point about how critical the mask seal aspect is and how, contrary to what most people assume, seal failure is more often the weak link in the chain rather than filtering. (I also read the CSPAM thread  ). So even though I wore two masks, I did make sure to specifically prioritize the inner mask, making sure it was form fitted to my face and sealed properly, and just allowed the 2nd outer mask to be loose back up coverage, rather than trying to seal them both and having them potentially get in each others way. But both of these points are well made and helpful and a single Aura probably would have been preferable overall. Ironically I was extremely nervous about flying and making plans to try and rent a car to drive there (which would've cost a ton of money) when I came across a tweet from some immunologist double masked on a plane (she was only wearing two surgical masks though so it was more reasonable to be double masked. People were still a bit surprised she wasn't using a KN95/N95 though) that put me more at ease.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:43
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beetus, the only suggestions I'd make about the OP are removing the electronicmaji quote-posts. That person is unhinged enough as it is that we probably shouldn't platform them if we don't have to, and new people coming in or who didn't see it at the time will not really have the right context for why those are funny posts so my feedback is to toss those out. It would also shorten the OP some too, it's fairly lengthy.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:48
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Phigs posted:Oregon has a fully vaxxed rate of 58.8% and a population of 4.2 million and here is their report on breakthroughs: https://www.oregon.gov/oha/covid19/Documents/DataReports/Breakthrough-Case-Report.pdf quote:The Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective at preventing I wouldn't say I'm "happy" with that, but yes, that's rare enough for me to not be very concerned about it.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:57
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mod sassinator posted:how are they going to enforce weekly testing. it will just turn into, "we have opted to weekly test our employees... we regret to inform our employees we are unable to find or purchase tests and will forgo this week's tests" every week. there's not going to be a clause that says companies have to shut down if they can't test, that would be suicide with today's supply chain shortages Certainly isn't a 100% solution but a decent amount of companies will just do it and that can move the needle.
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Sep 9, 2021 22:59
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Yeah, a lot of the benefit of mandates is it lets decent companies with chud employees deflect the blame to the government.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:09
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The testing exemption is just going to mean that companies will tell their employees to pay for the tests themselves or get the gently caress out Unless there's a mandate that companies pay for them that I missed
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Sep 9, 2021 23:22
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Fallom posted:The testing exemption is just going to mean that companies will tell their employees to pay for the tests themselves or get the gently caress out I'm finding it hard to care if a free vaccine is the alternative.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:24
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jetz0r posted:This is coming through OSHA, not through management. So it's not ceding unconditionally to a demand from the employer. Hopefully that helps for the unions that aren't being led or filled by anti-vaxxers. It's not just police or firefighter unions opposed to vaccine mandates; SEIU for one and the NYC teachers' union for another. I imagine that neither is "led or filled by anti-vaxxers" which is why I asked.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:33
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I'm glad a lot of this stuff is finally happening but holy poo poo it took an unacceptable amount of time for it to happen. Like PTO to get vaccinated shoulda happened months ago!
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Sep 9, 2021 23:39
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:How can you enforce any sort of vaccine mandate when there is no meaningful record-keeping as pertains to vaccination? Most people are not going to go through the effort (or be willing to face the consequences) of faking a vaccine card. Most hesitant people will shrug their shoulders, say "blah this sucks, i guess I have no choice" and go get the shot.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:42
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I've got a normally intelligent friend who's big on the "Natural immunity after reinfection is better than vaccine immunity" train right now. "Every study that I've seen shows higher antibodies, higher t-cells, etc". Does anyone have any strong science based studies on this? Of course googling showed me a ton of results saying vaccine antibodies are better than natural immunity, but I'm curious if there's anything factual behind his position.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:43
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Medullah posted:I've got a normally intelligent friend who's big on the "Natural immunity after reinfection is better than vaccine immunity" train right now. "Every study that I've seen shows higher antibodies, higher t-cells, etc". So why not stack the deck and get both? Have some sort of large, super antibody army swimming around inside you.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:44
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How are u posted:Most people are not going to go through the effort (or be willing to face the consequences) of faking a vaccine card. Most hesitant people will shrug their shoulders, say "blah this sucks, i guess I have no choice" and go get the shot. Diehard Trumpists might go through the effort of obtaining a fake card or just ignoring every single recommendation to keep them at arm's length from their death cult deathwish, but most people are just sorta dumb and afraid. COVID is new, this vaccine is new, and they haven't gotten sick from this virus thing in a year and a half (other people they know got sick and someone died, but not them), so why risk getting a shot of something they heard makes you feel bad? That amount of soft resistance to getting vaxxed crumples when their employer says get vaccinated or get fired.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:52
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Willa Rogers posted:It's not just police or firefighter unions opposed to vaccine mandates; SEIU for one and the NYC teachers' union for another. That's why i mentioned the source, and a reason why non-chud unions would want to oppose employer vaccine mandates. Doing ANYTHING the employer wants without getting something in return weakens their future bargaining powers, and is still agreeing to follow management's rules with any negotiation, effectively bypassing the union. The union needs to keep it's say in the rules its members follow, so they want to bring the mandate to the negotiation table. Maybe its changing some dates, maybe it's adding some PTO or sick days to recover from shots, they want to get to make the sure the plan meets their standards (whatever those are) before agreeing to it. Now that the order is coming from OSHA, it's no longer a union vs management issue. It's OSHA vs union, and unions usually follow OSHA standards because those standards exist to protect workers. Since it's no longer a political issue in the struggle between management and workers, the unions that were refusing for non-ideological anti-vax reasons will hopefully agree now. But no, I haven't seen anything yet.
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Sep 9, 2021 23:53
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Ah, good point about OSHA leading the charge!
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Sep 10, 2021 00:03
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:So why not stack the deck and get both? Have some sort of large, super antibody army swimming around inside you. This. Introduce him to the newest MMO, it's called IRL and is all about "min/maxing titers!". Honestly, do any of these types of people ever change their minds until just before the vent is being lowered onto their face? Arnold's is still the most succinct, laymen accessible argument I've seen. If that logic doesn't work for them, let them roll the dice and possibly end up cursing Facebook/Twitter in vain while drowning in their own lung fluid, their last thoughts being that they're about to die because they thought former stand-up comedian and UFC commentator, Joe Rogan knew more about virology than basically every actual virologist. -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Sep 10, 2021 |
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Sep 10, 2021 00:08
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