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StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Danger posted:

science clearly explains this

Well we have to discount supernatural explanations here, God would never lower Himself to talk to a marine

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Danger
Jan 4, 2004

all desire - the thirst for oil, war, religious salvation - needs to be understood according to what he calls 'the demonogrammatical decoding of the Earth's body'

StashAugustine posted:

Well we have to discount supernatural explanations here, God would never lower Himself to talk to a marine

honestly this gets me back to a couple other craws in my side about widely used dismissive aphorisms that come out of liberal positivism or internet atheism or whatever.

like hand-waiving away something “god in the gaps” like God could dwell or emerge from anywhere else; or that in the subsequent emergence of God we should disregard any knowledge that follows.

people stated these more objectively before I did in this thread (taboo against things being for community health without modern scientific evidence.

tmfc
Sep 28, 2006

can someone please reexplain the link between mcdonalds' "the grimace" and les wexner from a couple hundred pages back?? thank you

Danger
Jan 4, 2004

all desire - the thirst for oil, war, religious salvation - needs to be understood according to what he calls 'the demonogrammatical decoding of the Earth's body'
like this tangent all started from a very appropriate reference to From Hell, whose author stated as foundational premise of the work and his broad premise:

“The one place Gods inarguably exist is in our minds where they are real beyond refute, in all their grandeur and monstrosity.”

and this is both true and of material consequence

Karl popper exists as a ghost in your mind

Danger has issued a correction as of 02:30 on Sep 10, 2021

Spergin Morlock
Aug 8, 2009


gah i thought that said North Scrotum Loop Road

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005


Sorry to get all scientific, but Havana Syndrome is probably really mundane rather than some James Bond tech poo poo. In response to Zika, the US started drenching State Department/CIA (is there even a meaningful distinction between the two?) locations in tropical areas with pesticides to the point that personnel stationed there ended up with brain damage. Then they blamed it on communists, mosquitos, and probably also communist mosquitos.
https://neurosciencenews.com/havana-syndrome-pesticides-15025/

This is a good read because
-New physics
-The fact that they feature quotes from a scientist named Zoltan
-This incredibly sinister and awesome picture of Fermilab

GWBBQ has issued a correction as of 04:15 on Sep 10, 2021

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"

Danger posted:

Karl popper exists as a ghost in your mind

No! Noooo!!!

animist
Aug 28, 2018
i would simply give the karl popper in my mind a wedgie

Source4Leko
Jul 25, 2007


Dinosaur Gum

GWBBQ posted:

Sorry to get all scientific, but Havana Syndrome is probably really mundane rather than some James Bond tech poo poo. In response to Zika, the US started drenching State Department/CIA (is there even a meaningful distinction between the two?) locations in tropical areas with pesticides to the point that personnel stationed there ended up with brain damage. Then they blamed it on communists, mosquitos, and probably also communist mosquitos.
https://neurosciencenews.com/havana-syndrome-pesticides-15025/

This is a good read because
-New physics
-The fact that they feature quotes from a scientist named Zoltan
-This incredibly sinister and awesome picture of Brookhaven Labs


Thats Fermilab.

Torpor
Oct 20, 2008

.. and now for my next trick, I'll pretend to be a political commentator...

HONK HONK
people were getting “Havana syndrome” in other locations. it could also be pesticide related

GWBBQ
Jan 2, 2005


Source4Leko posted:

Thats Fermilab.
Don't mind me, just a bit sleep deprived and mixing up my high energy physics labs (thanks for the correction)

Tubgoat
Jun 30, 2013

by sebmojo

Spergin Morlock posted:

gah i thought that said North Scrotum Loop Road
Absolute goddamn same.

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012



nut posted:

I didn’t know anything about it, tho I semi-recently got into some hot tips about some RCMP-Robert Pickton connections

I got a book coming about the investigation maybe there will be something interesting in there maybe not but uh you cant just drop that and not tell.

Danger
Jan 4, 2004

all desire - the thirst for oil, war, religious salvation - needs to be understood according to what he calls 'the demonogrammatical decoding of the Earth's body'

GWBBQ posted:

Sorry to get all scientific, but Havana Syndrome is probably really mundane rather than some James Bond tech poo poo. In response to Zika, the US started drenching State Department/CIA (is there even a meaningful distinction between the two?) locations in tropical areas with pesticides to the point that personnel stationed there ended up with brain damage. Then they blamed it on communists, mosquitos, and probably also communist mosquitos.


was there anything more to the idea that zika (a very real virus that one should protect themselves from) was also a very fortunate cover for long term health effects from exploitative agribusiness in the area?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Danger posted:

was there anything more to the idea that zika (a very real virus that one should protect themselves from) was also a very fortunate cover for long term health effects from exploitative agribusiness in the area?

I think it was nut that did an effortpost on zika

Stevie Lee
Oct 8, 2007
eating dairy gives me havana syndrome

Excelzior
Jun 24, 2013

havana bad time on the toilet

Pryor on Fire
May 14, 2013

they don't know all alien abduction experiences can be explained by people thinking saving private ryan was a documentary

Muons are the creepiest of particles. Hundreds of them are flying through your body every second and about 20 meters of earth before they get absorbed, they are just constantly raining down from every direction.

You can also detect them to scan solid structures https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XIBUijXx1Q&t=74s

my bony fealty
Oct 1, 2008

Pryor on Fire posted:

Muons are the creepiest of particles. Hundreds of them are flying through your body every second and about 20 meters of earth before they get absorbed, they are just constantly raining down from every direction.

You can also detect them to scan solid structures https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XIBUijXx1Q&t=74s

I thought that was neutrinos

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"

my bony fealty posted:

I thought that was neutrinos

Muons decay in 2.2 microseconds, they may be referring to muon neutrinos but I don't know enough to be sure.

Nope it's muons:

quote:

About 10,000 muons reach every square meter of the earth's surface a minute; these charged particles form as by-products of cosmic rays colliding with molecules in the upper atmosphere. Traveling at relativistic speeds, muons can penetrate tens of meters into rocks and other matter before attenuating as a result of absorption or deflection by other atoms.[10]

Riot Bimbo
Dec 28, 2006


The CIA As Organized Crime is such a huge, scary bummer and it's enraging how useless it feels, how possibly dangerous and yet complete in impotence it feels to rage against what it lays out.

my bony fealty
Oct 1, 2008

Perry Mason Jar posted:

Muons decay in 2.2 microseconds, they may be referring to muon neutrinos but I don't know enough to be sure.

Nope it's muons:

turns out it's both, with 100 trillion neutrinos passing through your body every second :grin:

luckily they don't interact with anything so the particle eggheads say but I feel stronger just knowing the muons and neutrinos both are flowing through me

nut
Jul 30, 2019

Suplex Liberace posted:

I got a book coming about the investigation maybe there will be something interesting in there maybe not but uh you cant just drop that and not tell.

it was actually some documents scanned in a book my mom was reading about RCMP treatments of First Nations and sadly I am driving across the country away from that book, but I will try to find it online when I’m done travelling. if I recall what she said, there was evidence was two rcmp were kidnapping/abusing/killing alongside him, but don’t take my word for it.

I’m gathering some stuff for an effortpost I’ve wanted to look into for forever: grateful dead concerts/acid tests as mass experimentation

nut
Jul 30, 2019

gradenko_2000 posted:

I think it was nut that did an effortpost on zika

ya I did a Zika effortpost to highlight how it is being used to coverup insecticide abuse which, at the least, seems to worsen Zika symptoms. again, I’m on the road so I can’t dig it up but if anyone can that’d be appreciated!

e: bless u PMJ

nut has issued a correction as of 16:01 on Sep 10, 2021

Perry Mason Jar
Feb 24, 2006

"Della? Take a lid"

nut posted:

I can't remember if Zika being used to cover-up birth deformities tied to pesticide overuse in Brazil has been posted about in here yet, but I thought I'd effort post a little because I think it is a really interesting case study to look at the consolidation of mainstream opinion via academia when the conclusions are prematurely accepted as fact.

Really brief literature backgrounder

This is probably too short of a scientific summary, but my goal is to convince you that insecticide use is relevant in trying to understand the Zika microcephaly outbreak. The history of the literature is very push-pull, with I believe the biggest paper implicating the pesticide pyriproxyfen in microcephaly around the Brazilian Zika locus being https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5760164/

imo, the highest impact paper since this argument is by a CDC research team and published in the Lancet Child and Adolescent Health, which argues only Zika infections (some presumed based on self-report or zika-like symptoms along pregnancy) explain microcephaly in the same region https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(18)30020-8/fulltext#tbl4

My biggest critique of this insistence that Zika alone explains the birth deformities (aside from the critiques in the abstract section I posted above) is that the CDC study relies on self-report regarding "toxin exposure". I assume most people would not know if they were exposed, but maybe that's just me!

In defense of the study, they sought to provide up to 2 "control" babies matched by geography (to the same barrio/municipality). With this limited approach to non-Zika factors like toxins, I'd say this paper does a good job of implicating Zika, but a poor job of discounting alternatives.

Last year, a paper was submitted to BioRxiv with an interesting take that ignores the either-or of the history of this literature. Now keep in mind bioRxiv is a pre-print site, so these papers are publicly accessible while they are submitted to peer-reviewed journals. As such, this specific form of the paper has not been peer-reviewed and won't have been until it appears in whatever journal publishes it with review modifications. https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.03.366468v1.abstract

This study is limited by using artificial mouse neurospheres (balls of the progenitors to brain cells in dishes) and transgenic tadpoles, but imo it is pretty smart to look at synergism between the two biggest factors purported to have caused Zika, especially when the earlier two studies I mentioned above are designed to really only isolate the single "most" important factor at the detriment of their ability to test alternatives. But, I guess we will see if these conclusions change by publication.


The Messaging

That's some of the major science up to the present behind the Zika outbreak. I wanted to try and be fair with presenting it to mainly underline that PPF is still highly relevant to the conversation. With meaningful evidence of PPF involvement, let us now, for fun, look backwards to earlier/concurrent papers that sought to discount toxin involvement without question. Often, PPF is discounted by adding it to a list of easily discounted conspiracy terms, so it is interesting to see how these statements hold up with growing evidence of PPF effects on brain development.

Zika vaccine misconceptions: A social media analysis (2016)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5065070/

Zika virus pandemic-analysis of Facebook as a social media health information platform (2017)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27776823/

Conspiracy Theories and the Zika Epidemic (2018)
https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/is_fac/21/

Propagating and Debunking Conspiracy Theories on Twitter During the 2015–2016 Zika Virus Outbreak (2018)
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/cyber.2017.0669

I think this is a good example, also, of how academics who even believe they are doing the right thing and good work compromise themselves by not questioning the basis of their study, particularly when it comes to "classifying" these messages as true or false and then doing all your analysis from there.

Pipski
Apr 18, 2004

my bony fealty posted:

turns out it's both, with 100 trillion neutrinos passing through your body every second :grin:

luckily they don't interact with anything so the particle eggheads say but I feel stronger just knowing the muons and neutrinos both are flowing through me

(A neutrino has a 50% chance of penetrating a light year of solid lead.)

Does anyone know any good books (or podcast eps I guess) that look at the activities of Brian Crozier's 'The 61' group (other than the mf's autobiography?)

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008

nut posted:

I’m gathering some stuff for an effortpost I’ve wanted to look into for forever: grateful dead concerts/acid tests as mass experimentation
Ka pai. It intersects with conspiracies nudging the counterculture towards inner work a la a consumer narcissism. No more attempts to levitate the pentagon, please!

Laterite
Mar 14, 2007

It's Gutfest '89
Grimey Drawer

nut posted:

it was actually some documents scanned in a book my mom was reading about RCMP treatments of First Nations and sadly I am driving across the country away from that book, but I will try to find it online when I’m done travelling. if I recall what she said, there was evidence was two rcmp were kidnapping/abusing/killing alongside him, but don’t take my word for it.

Re: Robert Pickton; I remember reading this way back in the day and it was truly disturbing. Wouldn't be surprised at all at RCMP connections given how the Picktons ingratiated themselves in the community.

Death Farm

"In 1963, Leonard Pickton and his wife, Helen Louise, bought 40 acres of swamp for $18,000, towed their blue-and-white farmhouse to the site, and began raising children and pigs. They had two sons, Robert and David, and a daughter, Linda, who was not brought up on the farm but in the city, where she attended boarding school. Linda eventually married a businessman, and currently lives in the relatively posh neighborhood of South Granville, near downtown Vancouver.

Linda's brothers, Robert and David, remained on the farm, with its poo poo, it smells, its blood and butchery. The boys' father died in 1978 and their mother followed him to the grave in 1979. The brothers, then in their late 20s, inherited the farm with their sister.

In 1994, the Picktons struck it rich. Their farmland, purchased for $18,000 in 1963, was worth $300,000 in 1993. By 1994 it was valued at $7.2 million. In the fall of 1994, they sold a part of their farm for $1.7 million to Eternal Holdings, a townhouse development company. That same year the city of Port Coquitlam also bought a chunk of their land, for $1.2 million, and turned it into a park. In 1995, Port Coquitlam's school district bought a piece of the pig farm for $2.3 million, and built Blakeburn Elementary School on the site.

It was around this time, when the Picktons became millionaires, that the women began to go missing in alarming numbers from the DES. In 1995, Catherine Gonzales went missing; a few months later, Catherine Knight went missing, then Dorothy Spence, then Diana Melnick, then Tanya Holyk, then Olivia Williams, then Frances Young, then Stephanie Lane, Helen Hallmark, Janet Henry--the count didn't cease until 2001.

According to Lincoln Clarkes--a photographer who took pictures of five of the women whose remains would ultimately be found on the farm (they can be seen in his book, Heroines)--another factor contributed to the sudden rise of missing women: After making his small fortune, David Pickton left the family farm and moved a mile or less down the road to a new property on 2552 Burns Road, where he opened a party hall called Piggy's Palace in 1996.

Robert Pickton now had the resources and the freedom to do as he pleased."

"I only went once and I'd never go again," said an unnamed woman in a wonderful short article that was published in the Now (a Port Coquitlam newspaper) a few days after Pickton was served a warrant by the police. "It's a very raunchy crowd, lots of cocaine, lots of really, really bad, badass people.... I did not want to be a part of it."

Piggy's Palace, however, had a double life. Records posted on crimelibrary.com show that Piggy's Palace was a "nonprofit society" dedicated to raising money for "sports organizations and other worthy groups." The long tin shed on 2552 Burns Road was visited by almost everyone in Port Coquitlam. And not just badass people: two mayors, several city council members, local business and civic leaders, ice hockey moms, high school and elementary school students--they all came for "functions, dances, concerts and other recreations" at Piggy's Palace. Port Coquitlam Coun- cillor Darrell Penner, according to the Now, visited Piggy's Palace "a few times," believed that thousands of people had been to the place, and, though he had enjoyed some roasted pork, was certain it did not come from 953 Dominion Avenue, that is, from pigs that had been eating the women murdered on the Pickton farm.

But where else could it have come from?

It's common knowledge that Robert Pickton was, by the mid-'90s, no longer a serious commercial pig farmer. He was a wealthy man. Raising hogs now was more of a hobby. He bought the pigs, fattened them, and sold the meat to friends, or roasted them for the bikers, prostitutes, mayors, and Little Leaguers who partied at Piggy's Palace. The entire city of Port Coquitlam (pop. 53,000), it seemed, was feeding on pigs that had been fed by the suspected serial killer Robert Pickton."

Laterite has issued a correction as of 20:37 on Sep 10, 2021

Another Bill
Sep 27, 2018

Born on the bayou
died in a cave
bbq and posting
is all I crave

Suplex Liberace posted:

@nut what do you know about Clifford Olsen canadas most prolific and well paid serial killer? He was of course an rcmp informant pre killings, arested on sexual assualt charges or other things and let go, and once they monitored him after he was suspected in multiple killings hes still able to kill at least 4 more people. Then after hes arested the feds decide to buy the location of the bodies because they have no case

idk seems kinda weird

https://twitter.com/garethdmm/status/1414640699295817731

This some crazy poo poo about the RCMP and a mass / rampage killing last year.

Rimjob Rodeo
Apr 29, 2004

Another Bill posted:

https://twitter.com/garethdmm/status/1414640699295817731

This some crazy poo poo about the RCMP and a mass / rampage killing last year.

The Night Time podcast has been doing a weekly Portapique episode with Paul Palango, one of the only journalists still covering it at this point. It's been a little slow the last few weeks but it's an excellent explainer of all the inconsistencies in the RCMP's narrative so far.

https://www.nighttimepodcast.com/nova-scotia-rampage

Rimjob Rodeo has issued a correction as of 05:06 on Sep 11, 2021

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



Laterite posted:

Re: Robert Pickton; I remember reading this way back in the day and it was truly disturbing. Wouldn't be surprised at all at RCMP connections given how the Picktons ingratiated themselves in the community.

I remember reading in the Globe and Mail (Canada's largest newspaper) that the RCMP had no evidence Pickton committed almost half of the 49 murders he was accused of. It made a convenient way to wrap up every missing woman case in Vancouver and they don't give a poo poo about finding the real killers. The informant repeatedly pushed him into talking about trying to commit 50.

nut
Jul 30, 2019

don't forget the RCMP openly applying to destroy hundreds of exhibits from the Pickton trial, something even Pickton has come out and spoke against

https://vancouversun.com/news/robert-pickton-speaks-in-court-to-oppose-destruction-of-rcmp-exhibits

Suplex Liberace
Jan 18, 2012



yah the pickton case is super hosed up and the rcmp really bungled that one on purpose probably. Im more into the money angle in the Olsen case, the province of bc and the feds paid that guy 100000 bucks for information on bodies and it was his idea. Kaplain (building CSIS out of the Security Service at this moment) the solicitor general at the time just hand waved the weirdness of it by claiming the rcmp must be true to its word. Theres probably nothing there and its just the rcmp being like less work sure and the government just wanting this case to go away but idk.

my bony fealty
Oct 1, 2008

ok folks what's the recommended reading list for 9/11 crack pinging? I remember The Looming Tower being a decent "jfc the intelligence agencies are so incompetent" one

Cached Money
Apr 11, 2010

my bony fealty posted:

ok folks what's the recommended reading list for 9/11 crack pinging? I remember The Looming Tower being a decent "jfc the intelligence agencies are so incompetent" one

just listen to the trueanon 9/11 series

inconsequential
Feb 6, 2004
https://covertactionmagazine.com/20...need-to-end-it/

Good 9/11 article by Housetrotter from the 9/11 Trueanon ep, Aaron Good and Peter Dale Scott.

This is the best thread on the internet and I loved the previous derail about magic and the terrible evil permeating Earth’s most rotten moments.

The Voice of Labor
Apr 8, 2020

Cached Money posted:

just listen to the trueanon 9/11 series

any options for people who can't stand bryce?

nut
Jul 30, 2019

bryce…this mfer….

inconsequential
Feb 6, 2004

The Voice of Labor posted:

any options for people who can't stand bryce?

I like TrueAnon but I really would get a lot more out of it with 50% less jokes and bad asides.

I haven't read these books but they're on my to do list after being recommended by other, wiser people:

Disconnecting The Dots: How 9-11 Was Allowed to Happen by Kevin Fenton
The Road to 9-11: Wealth, Empire and the Future of America by Peter Dale Scott
Crossing the Rubicon by Michael Ruppert
Another Nineteen by Kevin Robert Ryan
New Pearl Harbor by David Ray Griffin

If you want to get real down in some rabbitholes, there's a doc on youtube called The New Pearl Harbor, as well as Press For Truth dealing with the victims families seeking answers.

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TheIncredulousHulk
Sep 3, 2012

Bryce Bolden

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