(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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mila delving into the abyss to fish these gems out for us only for his gifts to be SPURNED
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Sep 10, 2021 06:43
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mila kunis posted:Lenin and ML's in general have done more harm to the left than the right ever could. absolutely atrocious take 
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Sep 10, 2021 10:02
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Judge Dredd Scott posted:are there any english language books about the soviet legal system?? or the PRC one, even it's not what you're asking for but the pamphlet from the 30s that I uploaded a while back, Through Soviet Russia, has a bit where the writer visits a Soviet court (in Ukraine iirc) and it's an interesting little glimpse. Let me find it edit: it's here 
John Charity Spring has issued a correction as of 10:12 on Sep 10, 2021 |
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Sep 10, 2021 10:09
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Judge Dredd Scott posted:are there any english language books about the soviet legal system?? or the PRC one, even John Quigley's Soviet Legal Innovation and the Law of the Western World might hold some interest. It's as much about their law as it is about its ripples in the world at large, though. From the preface: quote:The leaders of the Western world were able to maintain themselves and their legal orders. But to do so, they could not run in place. They parried Lenin’s thrusts to blunt the impact in their realms of his biting critique of their rule. A dialectic developed between the Soviet Union and the West. In its efforts to counter the Soviet Union, the West absorbed many of the ideas it found threatening.
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Sep 10, 2021 14:49
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mila kunis posted:Lenin and ML's in general have done more harm to the left than the right ever could. How is it that I'm autistic and better than detecting sarcasm and joke posts than 90% of forum posters who surely aren'- nevermind
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Sep 10, 2021 20:21
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Anyone familiar with mila kunis' posting knew it was an unsourced quote 
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Sep 10, 2021 20:53
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Deified Data posted:https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1434851140319989764?s=20 to be fair “American patriot” is so vague as to be meaningless. Michael parenti seemed to caution against leftists falling into the trap of making America the problem rather than the capitalists and leadership. which is a rake that the left can never stop stepping on. Torpor has issued a correction as of 21:58 on Sep 10, 2021 |
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Sep 10, 2021 21:56
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the idea that Real Leftists are the greatest threat to phony socialist Regimes like the ussr, china, cuba, venezuela, and coincidentally every other socialist country that has ever existed is really funny because the implication is that socialism is actually wildly popular and an entire country will want to march in lockstep behind you so long as they think you're a socialist, so all you have to do is proclaim your socialism really loudly and you win, and the only reason you haven't won is that some charlatan has gotten there ahead of you to suck up all the socialist-loving oxygen, so of course your primary enemies are the fake socialists who have stolen your rightful place at the top
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Sep 10, 2021 22:21
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Ferrinus posted:the idea that Real Leftists are the greatest threat to phony socialist Regimes like the ussr, china, cuba, venezuela, and coincidentally every other socialist country that has ever existed is really funny because the implication is that socialism is actually wildly popular and an entire country will want to march in lockstep behind you so long as they think you're a socialist, so all you have to do is proclaim your socialism really loudly and you win, and the only reason you haven't won is that some charlatan has gotten there ahead of you to suck up all the socialist-loving oxygen, so of course your primary enemies are the fake socialists who have stolen your rightful place at the top I would argue that the contradictions embodied by isolated socialist regimes that end up repressing workers can lead to workers becoming radicalized in many contradictory directions, even "to the left," hence why Solidarnosc appealed to so many people in Poland for example. Even though the party of Solidarnosc/the nationalist moment that Poland had in the 80s had rightist elements and rightist ends, it also prayed on genuine leftist grievances. It's just more or less a matter of cui bono, and >90% of the time a socialist regime meets fierce left-wing opposition those end up either being co-opted for imperialistic ends or a cat's paw for them in the first place. The one exception I can think of is arguably Hungary in 1956, and foreign actors attempted to pull that in all sorts of directions as well. It just had the exceptional quality of workers literally forming their own soviets before getting crushed by the USSR.
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Sep 10, 2021 22:29
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iirc '56 hungary was the one where soviet claims that they were quashing a fascist uprising were actually entirely credible and then the later one was murkier but i could be mixing them up
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Sep 10, 2021 22:57
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Ferrinus posted:iirc '56 hungary was the one where soviet claims that they were quashing a fascist uprising were actually entirely credible and then the later one was murkier but i could be mixing them up Imre Nagy was a very Gorbachev type figure who wanted to end Hungary's relationship with the Warsaw Pact and free political prisoners whether liberal or far-right, and much of the uprising was centered around him. There was some fascist cardinal who got released and tried to take over the protests, and of course the CIA tried to stir up those anticommunist/far right elements as well. This is most of the basis for that claim I think, but the main base of the movement was in workers who formed councils but were too afraid to try and take over the state themselves. It's kind of a both/and scenario imo. I think the Hungarian working class deserves sympathy for what they tried to do but given that they allowed for a power vacuum to occur, I think there was legitimate reason for the USSR to step in (although granted it was probably more about the Warsaw Pact question than any latent fascism).
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Sep 10, 2021 23:17
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i have been meaning to find more about the prague spring since it seems like they were trying to do some of the same reforms that killed the ussr when they were done too late, and that worked great for deng and china. hungary was def some fash + spook poo poo though
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Sep 10, 2021 23:34
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Aeolius posted:John Quigley's Soviet Legal Innovation and the Law of the Western World might hold some interest. It's as much about their law as it is about its ripples in the world at large, though. From the preface: Holy poo poo, I was running around unknowingly espousing Soviet legal theory at the age of...twelve? Thirteen? God drat...
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Sep 11, 2021 00:19
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bad news. looks like joe is cancelled Schweinhund posted:Stalin got a 13 year old girl pregnant when he was 35 and abandoned her.
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Sep 11, 2021 02:40
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and if you bring up epstein that would be whataboutism
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Sep 11, 2021 03:04
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Aeolius posted:John Quigley's Soviet Legal Innovation and the Law of the Western World might hold some interest. It's as much about their law as it is about its ripples in the world at large, though. From the preface: this is pretty drat close to what i was looking for honestly, the compare/contrast to western law will do a good job contextualizing it all i think. thank you so much!
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Sep 11, 2021 07:24
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I was looking at this poll of Russians on their preferred system. Apparently a plurality of 49% want to return to the soviet system https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/1436262575839322112 It makes me wonder, are there polls like this for other formerly communist states? Like Poland, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, etc.
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Sep 11, 2021 09:25
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Red and Black posted:I was looking at this poll of Russians on their preferred system. Apparently a plurality of 49% want to return to the soviet system not the most recent data but it’s a popular position in most of the former communist countries last i saw https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2010/04/28/hungary-better-off-under-communism/ A remarkable 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. In no other Central or Eastern European country surveyed did so many believe that economic life is worse now than during the communist era.
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Sep 11, 2021 09:51
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Yossarian-22 posted:Imre Nagy was a very Gorbachev type figure who wanted to end Hungary's relationship with the Warsaw Pact and free political prisoners whether liberal or far-right, and much of the uprising was centered around him. There was some fascist cardinal who got released and tried to take over the protests, and of course the CIA tried to stir up those anticommunist/far right elements as well. This is most of the basis for that claim I think, but the main base of the movement was in workers who formed councils but were too afraid to try and take over the state themselves. At least some of the leaders of armed portions of the movement were likely sympathetic to the old regime. The founder of the Jobbik party was the head of one of the largest groups. Ultimately, there was little love by the Hungarians for the Soviets before 1956, not only were they an ally of the Nazis but some of the hardest fighting of the war was done in Hungary. Budapest was nearly leveled.
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Sep 11, 2021 10:25
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fart simpson posted:not the most recent data but it’s a popular position in most of the former communist countries last i saw Wow  I wonder why Poland loves capitalism so much, did they get the short end of the stick during the Soviet era? 35% is still higher than I think most people would expect in any case
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Sep 11, 2021 11:54
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Poland has a long hatred of Russia and had a crap Soviet government - it's not so surprising they would think anything is better than that.
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Sep 11, 2021 11:57
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Judge Dredd Scott posted:are there any english language books about the soviet legal system?? or the PRC one, even Mieville’s Between Equal Rights deals a lot with Soviet legal theorist Pashukanis in the first half, the second half is application of Marxist theory to the international legal sphere. Actually a really interesting book, still need to write a proper paper based on it.
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Sep 11, 2021 12:46
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There's also this study from two years ago which seems to show a large uptick of support for the market economy in formerly communist states since 2010 https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/10/15/european-public-opinion-three-decades-after-the-fall-of-communism/  e: also this 2009 poll https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2009/11/02/end-of-communism-cheered-but-now-with-more-reservations/  which seems to contradict the poll that was taken just a year later. Unless you can simultaneously feel things were better economically during communism than under capitalism, and still prefer capitalism Red and Black has issued a correction as of 12:54 on Sep 11, 2021 |
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Sep 11, 2021 12:51
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Red and Black posted:There's also this study from two years ago which seems to show a large uptick of support for the market economy in formerly communist states since 2010 I guess you you could add the ability to travel to the West and the collapse of the intrusive policing system under the headline of "change to capitalism"
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Sep 11, 2021 13:02
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e
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Sep 11, 2021 13:22
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genericnick posted:I guess you you could add the ability to travel to the West and the collapse of the intrusive policing system under the headline of "change to capitalism" Yeah, also looking at this age comparison chart gives me the impression that the older generations more sympathetic to socialism are simply dying off, leaving a younger generation that's grown up under capitalism.  from 2019:  
Red and Black has issued a correction as of 13:32 on Sep 11, 2021 |
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Sep 11, 2021 13:29
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the only response you'll get to that is "they're old, they don't know what they're talking about!" or something about nostalgia etc which has as its underlying premise that young people are these perfectly rational beings unaffected by growing up in a capitalist society (probably living in a frictionless vacuum too) whereas the olds have holes in their brains
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Sep 11, 2021 18:34
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I love how this same journo immediately tries to spin the numbers Nate Silver 2016 GOP primary style - https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/1436266538160504832?s=19
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Sep 11, 2021 20:17
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what was up in 08, were the people excited for medvedev.
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Sep 11, 2021 20:47
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has there been any marxist analysis written on the rise of support for social democracy over the last 10 years, specifically bernie, corbyn etc? i want to know the class forces behind why support for social democracy has risen, especially in inner-city areas of the west. there's an emphasis that it's a purely working class movement but i'm not convinced of that all, my (very) rudimentary hypothesis is that it's far more based in middle-class/bourgeois opposition that's attempting to win over the working class in contrast to established support of neoliberalism in the bourgeoisie. also wondering if overaccumulation in capitalism is creating a crisis of faith in neoliberalism or not. i'd love to do more reading on this because i think it's an important topic to understand, especially going forward now that neo-keynesianism social democracy has more or less fallen completely flat in the west with its defeat/inevitable co-option.
Hefty Leftist has issued a correction as of 09:06 on Sep 12, 2021 |
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Sep 12, 2021 08:58
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I know you mean the 'support' and not whether or not they took power but thinking about Corbyn and Bernie just makes me depressed wrt the end of those projects/movements
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Sep 12, 2021 11:44
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a couple of bag of bones socdems were the only tolerable opposition bourgeois ‘democracy’ allowed as long as they didn’t threaten to directly control any lever of power. they became popular because they were the only ones available in the traditional political career paths with ideas for when the failures of capitalism became impossible to ignore any longer
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Sep 12, 2021 11:48
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I know you mean the 'support' and not whether or not they took power but thinking about Corbyn and Bernie just makes me depressed wrt the end of those projects/movements I dunno conclusively proving that electoral reformism is a dead end is useful at least. granted it was fairly obvious but it’s nice to have experimental proof
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Sep 12, 2021 11:51
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reactionary right is out there spreading carbon copied nazi propaganda and it feels like it isn’t alarming as many people as it should I also can’t understanding those who believe or make this stuff but I guess that’s why I’m not a reactionary 
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Sep 14, 2021 08:11
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Currently really struggling to read through Losurdo's Liberalism, a counter history. Is Losurdo as clunky and difficult in the original Italian? I'm starting to think that verso deliberately hosed up the translation due to Losurdo's well know Stalin centrism.
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Sep 14, 2021 23:24
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misterevilcat posted:Currently really struggling to read through Losurdo's Liberalism, a counter history. Is Losurdo as clunky and difficult in the original Italian? I'm starting to think that verso deliberately hosed up the translation due to Losurdo's well know Stalin centrism. you know i wonder if that might be the translation. ive found Losurdo is usually pretty breezy imo but i remember Liberalism was noticeably less so than the other stuff i've read.
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Sep 14, 2021 23:27
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Raskolnikov38 posted:I dunno conclusively proving that electoral reformism is a dead end is useful at least. granted it was fairly obvious but it’s nice to have experimental proof it's not a dead end but if people want to bring it about it's a multi-generational project. even the new right had complete electoral failures for decades before it came into being and was able to seize institutional power, and it never faced the same kind of institutional hostility the way any kind of nascent left would. i think what people underestimate if enough people do decide to go that route and commit to building something that will take 40 years to grasp power is that a lot of your movement can probably be bought off with mild social democratic reforms
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Sep 14, 2021 23:29
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not sure why you'd assume the premise - the dynamic is people talk revolution during non-election years and then over-invest in the left candidate on an election year it's happened every single time even in CSPAM and i expect it to happen again in 2024 whether it's deathbed Bernie or "Tax the Rich" AOC
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Sep 15, 2021 00:07
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rip gonzalo and norm
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Sep 15, 2021 00:17
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platzapS posted:rip gonzalo and norm 
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Sep 15, 2021 00:19
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