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Technically, before the War of the Hundred Years could mean during Hawkwing's empire, but I'm sure that's not Sheriam's intent there. It's just somewhere in the middle of the Third Age. Didn't Manetheren fall during the Trolloc Wars? So Eldrene being an Aes Sedai is evidence of rulers being publicly Aes Sedai in the early middle Third Age. I guess the transition away from that, and toward the Three Oaths, was a more gradual thing during that middle period. (I'm using 'early' for pre-Trolloc Wars, 'middle' for post-Trolloc Wars pre-Hawkwing (or pre-Hawkwing's death), and 'late' for post-War of the Hundred Years.)
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Sep 11, 2021 09:20
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Khizan posted:The Three Oaths meant that nobody trusted Aes Sedai. Their inability to lie meant that every word that came out of their mouth was examined to death. Everybody knew that their words only had to be technically correct and so everybody always looking for the trick. True words spoken out of context to mislead. The important bit that got omitted to change the meaning. There's also an aspect of it where the fact that you had to swear a magically binding oath about it is suspicious in and of itself. There's an implication there that "Aes Sedai must really want to lie, otherwise they wouldn't need to swear that oath". Exactly. The Aes Sedai cling to the letter of their oaths but everyone knows they're manipulative, secretive, and lying in every way but the most literal way. And they bully people and treat them as lesser. The other channeling groups actually do the work of treating people well and working in their community for the betterment of everyone.
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Sep 11, 2021 17:47
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Colonel Cool posted:I'd point to the fact that all the other channeling organizations have smaller spheres of influence They basically only serve their own homogenous societies, where the Aes Sedai are more like the UN. Yeah I think it's important that the Sea Folk, the Aiel, and the other channeler were all afraid of being discovered by the Aes Sedai. They weren't exactly secretive, but they hid their presence from those outside their respective cultures. It indicates the Aes Sedai were feared as a legitimate power I think it's a credit to Jordan that it's such a plausible setup: the Aes Sedai used the Oaths to make themselves less-threatening to non-channelers and to maintain a degree of independence and power instead of being dominated like happened in Seanchan, but with the ironic consequence they were distrusted and even more feared when they couldn't lie or use the power as a weapon. Meanwhile those that didn't take Oaths were more integrated and trusted by their cultures' non-channelers, but were significantly less powerful outside their cultures and more powerful within them because of that trust.
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Sep 12, 2021 01:26
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Khizan posted:The Three Oaths meant that nobody trusted Aes Sedai. Their inability to lie meant that every word that came out of their mouth was examined to death. Everybody knew that their words only had to be technically correct and so everybody always looking for the trick. True words spoken out of context to mislead. The important bit that got omitted to change the meaning. There's also an aspect of it where the fact that you had to swear a magically binding oath about it is suspicious in and of itself. There's an implication there that "Aes Sedai must really want to lie, otherwise they wouldn't need to swear that oath". Egwene was wrong. We know for a fact that the oath ter'angrel was found early during the Trolloc Wars. The casualty rates of that 350ish year war were so horrendous that the Aes Sedai didn't realize that they'd cut their lifespan in half because by the end of the war there was no one left alive who realized that they should be living until 600 instead of 300. The long lifespans of the prewar Aes Sedai were just another mythic lost ability to them. And obviously the Aes Sedai of the Ten Nations were a lot more respected and capable, both politically and with the power. Anyways, here's a map of the Ten Nations. The original one didn't have all the cities we know about, so I edited them in. 
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Sep 12, 2021 05:40
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The Glumslinger posted:I mean, that's basically Shara. They get like a dozen vague references before the last battle and then boom, they're there. Not so sure about the Sharans. I remember from source outside the series sources that the channelers basically run Shara in secret,and the political figureheads are just puppets. It wasn't really until Bao the Wild came along that they were pretty much subverted.
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Sep 12, 2021 07:20
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Graendal explains it. I'm not sure how truthful a description it is because, you know, Graendal.Lord of Chaos, ch. 6: Threads Woven of Shadow posted:“The Ayyad, as they call themselves, live in their own small towns, avoiding everyone else, and supposedly never channel without permission or orders from the Sh’botay or Sh’boan. In fact, they are the real power, and the reason the Sh’botay and Sh’boan only rule seven years.”
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Sep 12, 2021 08:17
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Huh, guess I forgot about that I desperately hope we get a new set of maps, this series deserves prettier maps than it has
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Sep 12, 2021 08:35
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The Glumslinger posted:Huh, guess I forgot about that I've always been partial to the map from the inside front cover of The Great Hunt:  The later fancier map has more detail and resolution but I love the illustrated border here.
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Sep 12, 2021 13:52
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Is that supposed to be the Stone of Tear at the bottom? I've always imagine it to look more like this:
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Sep 12, 2021 14:15
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I have never imagined the stone of tear as looking like a giant redstone goatse but thanks for this
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Sep 12, 2021 14:25
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Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Sep 12, 2021 |
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Sep 12, 2021 14:59
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I always imagined the stone of tear to be like Uluru in Australia. 
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Sep 12, 2021 15:03
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Torrannor posted:Is that supposed to be the Stone of Tear at the bottom? I've always imagine it to look more like this: It's the White Tower, you can tell because it's white and has a tower in the middle that's unfortunately right where the page seam is.
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Sep 12, 2021 15:12
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Democratic Pirate posted:I always imagined the stone of tear to be like Uluru in Australia. same for me
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Sep 12, 2021 15:23
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I appreciate the Demotivator format
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Sep 12, 2021 15:44
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Democratic Pirate posted:I always imagined the stone of tear to be like Uluru in Australia. Oh absolutely, but it has battlements and arrow slits and outright windows you can climb to to get into the Stone (if you're the main character), so that TCG art wasn't bad, imho. I admit, I thought Tar Valon was pretty flat, like in that image. But if what I mistook for the Stone of Tear is in fact the White Tower, than the television show's Tar Valon is closer to the source material than I thought. Edit: Here's a really cool article about the differences between books Tar Valon, and TV Tar Valon (as far as we can tell from the like two shots in the trailer): https://dragonmount.com/news/tv-show/adams-wheel-of-television-book-to-screen-tar-valon-r1203/ So they put the White Tower on a hill that didn't exist in the novels, and they reduced the size of the island itself quite a bit. I was amazed by how Tar Valon looked in the trailer, so these changes don't bother me at all. Edit2: It seems they may have flipped the island 180 degrees for some reason. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Sep 12, 2021 |
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Sep 12, 2021 15:56
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one thing i really hope makes it in the show is the theme of characters confidently stating things we either find out later or know at the time aren't true at all. hopefully with smash cuts to drive it home
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Sep 12, 2021 17:36
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Brolander posted:one thing i really hope makes it in the show is the theme of characters confidently stating things we either find out later or know at the time aren't true at all. hopefully with smash cuts to drive it home I mean this is basically Elaida's entire character 
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Sep 12, 2021 19:07
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Brolander posted:one thing i really hope makes it in the show is the theme of characters confidently stating things we either find out later or know at the time aren't true at all. hopefully with smash cuts to drive it home I'm really excited to see how the actress portrays Nynaeve "'I'm not shouting!', she shouted" al'Meara
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Sep 12, 2021 19:19
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That happens in Clue, the movie.
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Sep 12, 2021 19:48
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Great, now I'm picturing Mrs. White as channeling in this scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8d8y4BLWtI Data Graham fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Sep 12, 2021 |
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Sep 12, 2021 19:49
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Democratic Pirate posted:I always imagined the stone of tear to be like Uluru in Australia. Yeah I always figured the Stone was like this, maybe more smoothly shaped - basically the Superdome but made out of rock. I guess it could've been craggier to more closely resemble a mountain but I'm struggling to recall any descriptions of it that suggested the exterior was that rough.
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Sep 12, 2021 20:04
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Data Graham posted:Great, now I'm picturing Mrs. White as channeling in this scene Absolutely sounds like a male channeler describing saidin tbh
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Sep 12, 2021 20:12
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Rarity posted:I mean this is basically Elaida's entire character haha yes I just like the macro memories/legends/myth vs us watching it happen in micro. the purple monkey dishwashered reports of rand's doings, falme, etc. and there's a ton of small examples like what people believe about the aiel. "trollocs arent real silly" Brolander fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Sep 12, 2021 |
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Sep 12, 2021 20:33
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It's a really nice touch how Jordan mixed in things that are happening offscreen with all the warped rumours
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Sep 12, 2021 20:38
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bob should have hired a pro for his maps. caemlyn is a good example, a massive city that's not on coast or by a river
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Sep 12, 2021 20:58
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important thread https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/60t4n8/stats_for_braids_tugged_skirts_smoothed/
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Sep 12, 2021 21:01
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ChubbyChecker posted:bob should have hired a pro for his maps. caemlyn is a good example, a massive city that's not on coast or by a river It's actually over a big underground river/cistern thing...
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Sep 12, 2021 21:10
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ChubbyChecker posted:bob should have hired a pro for his maps. caemlyn is a good example, a massive city that's not on coast or by a river I've read (phoneposting; can try to track down a link later) that RJ didn't plan on having a big continent map in the books. Then, once everything was agreed on, the publisher said “Oh, and the map. Gotta have a map, right? Everybody has maps!” So RJ drew one up on short notice, with mountain ranges running perfectly north-south and east-west, and giant swathes of nothing between some countries. It worked out reasonably well, given that. But yeah, Caemlyn's weird.
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Sep 12, 2021 21:16
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Vavrek posted:I've read (phoneposting; can try to track down a link later) that RJ didn't plan on having a big continent map in the books. Then, once everything was agreed on, the publisher said “Oh, and the map. Gotta have a map, right? Everybody has maps!” The giant swathes of nothing between countries were at least referenced.
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Sep 12, 2021 21:24
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Yeah, that's what I meant by “worked out reasonably well”: blank sections of the map became evidence of how unpopulated some places were, and of how limited the reach of a monarch's or council's authority was. The mountain ranges got a far more “I don't know, a wizard did it (thousands of crazy wizards did it)” answer, which fits the story being told (even if it might be nice to see more chaotic mountain ranges because of the Breaking).
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Sep 12, 2021 21:43
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ChubbyChecker posted:a massive city that's not on coast or by a river I feel like in a world where witches can magic up water at the drop of the hat this isn't quite so much of an issue
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Sep 12, 2021 21:47
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Through all of this, remember who Padan Fain is: I can't wait.
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Sep 13, 2021 01:15
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Sep 13, 2021 01:15
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Torrannor posted:Edit: Here's a really cool article about the differences between books Tar Valon, and TV Tar Valon (as far as we can tell from the like two shots in the trailer): My big beef with the white tower is no bannisters anywhere, how many sisters do they lose every year by inadvertently taking a plunge off the side?!
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Sep 13, 2021 01:31
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Chomposaur posted:My big beef with the white tower is no bannisters anywhere, how many sisters do they lose every year by inadvertently taking a plunge off the side?! 20% of the tower or more is black ajah. They basically have defenestration classes with novices.
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Sep 13, 2021 01:36
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The capital of Kandor, as seen in the graphic novel that was made of the prequel "novella"    
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Sep 13, 2021 09:35
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ChubbyChecker posted:bob should have hired a pro for his maps. caemlyn is a good example, a massive city that's not on coast or by a river To be fair, it's pretty much the only city not on coast or by (or in) a river.
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Sep 13, 2021 11:11
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Torrannor posted:To be fair, it's pretty much the only city not on coast or by (or in) a river. It's on a river, the river is just underground.
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Sep 13, 2021 12:07
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wasn't it just an underground aqueduct for the inner city, and not a river for ships needed for commerce
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Sep 13, 2021 12:38
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