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I dream of a HOI in wich Germany is not playable. The game already has the AI, just make it not selectable.
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Sep 13, 2021 13:17
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| # ? May 29, 2024 02:32 |
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Mans posted:Paradox release a DLC for surviving Mars and it seems to be reaching a record level low rating only beaten by the leviathan fiasco. It's a shame publishing has no QA department which could have flagged these issues.
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Sep 13, 2021 14:06
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Goa Tse-tung posted:I dream of a HOI in wich Germany is not playable. The game already has the AI, just make it not selectable. They just need to make Germany the lynchpin of the entire events engine just like the Pope in CK2.
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Sep 13, 2021 14:14
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Yeah... It's not like it's obscure or rare random issues. This is stuff one person would have caught in less than an hour of testing. Like the leviathan crap they would have known about if anyone had even bothered to boot up the game even once.
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Sep 13, 2021 14:14
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Darkrenown posted:As far as I know Wiz is a good person and has been supportive to people harassed by their manager. jesus christ, this and the Fredrik tweet after he decided to return and keep this poo poo going..
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Sep 13, 2021 16:13
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DrSunshine posted:They just need to make Germany the lynchpin of the entire events engine just like the Pope in CK2.
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Sep 13, 2021 16:23
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Didn't they release some analytics that says Germany is, to a frankly embarrassing degree, the most-played nation by a longshot? Something like 50% of all HOI games or something ridiculous? Vivid memories of PDXCon 2019 and walking through the HOI area to find nearly everyone was playing... Germany. Again. I think the then-current DLC was Waking the Tiger?
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Sep 13, 2021 16:33
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Drone posted:Didn't they release some analytics that says Germany is, to a frankly embarrassing degree, the most-played nation by a longshot? Something like 50% of all HOI games or something ridiculous? I believe it was 20 percent with the next largest countries being 5 percent each.
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Sep 13, 2021 16:36
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Drone posted:Didn't they release some analytics that says Germany is, to a frankly embarrassing degree, the most-played nation by a longshot? Something like 50% of all HOI games or something ridiculous? This is from a news post released shortly after the Bosporus DLC release. https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/394360/view/2943625250046734388 posted:For starters, we are seeing a big increase in people playing the new countries that is not at all surprising. After release, Germany still leads the list of most-played countries, but it’s overall margin has shrunk quite a bit over the years. After the game’s initial release, some 40% of games were played as Germany, now it is less than 20%. In second place is, unsurprisingly, Turkey with 16%, followed by Greece at just under 10% and the Soviet Union at 7.4 %. Bulgaria comes in a hair below it at 7% of total games played.
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Sep 13, 2021 16:38
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USSR will rise to 100% for the next release, as it should be. 
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Sep 13, 2021 16:57
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Germany is basically the Protagonist Country of HOI, what with their not being hampered by World Tension like non-genocidal regimes are. If I had to implement predictable AI restrictions on NPC nations so they get stronger as you get stronger (to avoid the late-game roflstomp common to 4X games), World Tension is an ideal mechanic. I agree having the Axis be NPC factions and you play as everyone else would make for a stronger game. The storytelling/modding abilities of this game singlehandedly pulled it out of the Will Never Play category for me, as I've not found very many multiplayer games where everyone else is also playing a well-written story with game mechanics to draw you into the fiction of the story.
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Sep 13, 2021 16:58
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maybe they should lock the ussr and america too so you don't have to deal with their war crimes and community apologists too. hoi where you can only play as minors too pathetic to war crime and at the end of the war game it shows a score that says "here's how well you avoided fighting a war, you are a good and morally just person"
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Sep 13, 2021 17:00
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Drone posted:Didn't they release some analytics that says Germany is, to a frankly embarrassing degree, the most-played nation by a longshot? Something like 50% of all HOI games or something ridiculous? There's a reason for that beyond just the prevalence of wehraboos, even. It's a WW2 game. One of Paradox's selling points for their stuff is that you can play pretty much any country on earth, but it's still a WW2 game. Most people, for their first few games at least, are gonna want to play one of the major WW2 countries. But, if you run through a list of those and what they actually do, you start to see the issue: Poland: steamrolled immediately France: steamrolled immediately Britain: booted off the continent immediately USA: doesn't show up for half the war and has to deal with a lot of intercontinental logistics when it does Commonwealth: the problems of Britain and America combined with a fraction of the power Japan: on the other side of the planet from the part of the war people actually think about, also has to mostly focus on a naval war that it can't actually win Italy: sucks at everything, just constantly gets its rear end kicked by like, Greece and Ethiopia Hungary: people barely remember that they were even in the war So, who have we got left? Well, Germany and the Soviet Union. Pick either one of those and you get to have a fairly straightforward land war in Europe, which is what people are envisioning when they pick up a WW2 strategy game. And of those 2, people will mostly pick Germany. This is partly because a lot of people who play the game are giant wehraboos who would always go for Germany anyway. Part of it is because the Soviet Union has had a terrible focus tree forever and have just generally sucked to play. But a lot of it is also because the Germans are the ones who started the war, which means if you play as them you get to dictate the course of it. If you play as anyone else, you basically just sit there and wait to see what Germany does so that you can react to it. Germany is the driving force behind everything, and being active is more interesting than being reactive. In any other scenario it's a pretty straightforward choice, but unfortunately in Hearts of Iron it means that you end up literally playing as Hitler. Fortunately, over the years, they've updated or added a lot of focus trees so that you can actually be an active force as another country. Unfortunately, the active versions of other countries focus trees often involve playing as Fascists anyway, in which case it's really not much better. It's kind of an unavoidable characteristic of the era: fascists went around starting stupid wars and other countries had to fend them off and put them down.
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Sep 13, 2021 17:03
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I mean obviously everyone wants to play Germany - a big part of the appeal of the game is seeing if you can change history and win the war for the nazis It doesn't signify anything political, it's just about having watched loads of ww2 documentaries and thinking like "if i were hitler i would have simply moved south to the Caucasus". It's just alt history fun.
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Sep 13, 2021 17:03
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:maybe they should lock the ussr and america too so you don't have to deal with their war crimes and community apologists too. hoi where you can only play as minors too pathetic to war crime and at the end of the war game it shows a score that says "here's how well you avoided fighting a war, you are a good and morally just person" I also think it is a bad idea to make any country an NPC in a Paradox Game. The only game where it makes sense is Vicky, since it is literally the entire world vs. the UK most of the time, and it was incredibly unfun to play as the UK in Vicky 2. If we remove the Axis countries, we might as well remove the ability to play as the Soviet Union while we are at it.
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Sep 13, 2021 17:04
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Clearly the biggest mistake Paradox made when developing Imperator was making Rome playable.
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Sep 13, 2021 17:18
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Yeah you gotta separate gameplay and ideology. I mostly play fascist when doing alt history paths because it's usually the tree that lets you war everyone around you and blob a lot. Not a fan of playing world police which ends up with a bunch of nations ideologically allied with but not directly owned by you. Basically the equivalent of me always going Republican Dictatorship in EU3 for the Imperalism CB.
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Sep 13, 2021 17:18
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I'm as much for giving the middle finger to nazis as anyone but it seems kind of pointless to be talking about making warcrime leaders NPC countries. In a series of games such as Paradox's GSGs no less, where Europa Universalis gives you an "Attack natives" button and Victoria has you do the trail of tears. There is a serious discussion to be had about how these games whitewash history and feed into historical myths, but kneejerk suggestions like those do not meaningfully contribute to it.
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Sep 13, 2021 17:20
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Is it worth grabbing Surviving Mars + Green Planet while they're on sale? I don't know ANYTHING about the game, but Green Planet seems like a fun idea for long-term goals in a colony type game. Or is the game too.... Paradox poisoned?
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Sep 13, 2021 17:20
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HOI basically forces you to play an axis country if you want to play the game. Not doing things is boring for the player and Germany gets to always do things and set the pace of the game. It's also a challenge to win the war as the losers which appeals to players. Friends and I basically only played axis nations in our multiplayer games for this reason. Though the most fun we had was in HOI2 playing as the pan slavic alliance of Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, and Poland, kicking Germany in the balls in 1936, puppeting Italy in 1937 and starting a hell war with the Soviets where the entirety of Eastern Europe ran out of manpower by 1942. Minenfeld! fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Sep 13, 2021 |
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Sep 13, 2021 17:26
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YF-23 posted:I'm as much for giving the middle finger to nazis as anyone but it seems kind of pointless to be talking about making warcrime leaders NPC countries. In a series of games such as Paradox's GSGs no less, where Europa Universalis gives you an "Attack natives" button and Victoria has you do the trail of tears. There is a serious discussion to be had about how these games whitewash history and feed into historical myths, but kneejerk suggestions like those do not meaningfully contribute to it. The big problem with WW2 is that it's a very popular setting for wargames for a reason - it's the last major direct conflict between great powers, before the invention of nuclear weapons basically made the possibility of any future conflict of that scale mean "the extinction of the human race". It's a strategic scenario that people have been going over constantly basically since the moment it ended so there is going to remain interest in playing it out and imagining how things could have gone differently if Country X had done Y and so on. On the other side of the coin, the war is inseparable from the politics that caused it and just as it was the last major modern conflict, it also industrialized human suffering on a scale never seen before or since. So you have a conflict that is strategically fascinating but politically very ugly. The easy solution to this is "fantasy WW2" where you take the technology of the war and remove it from the real world context, but fantasy nations tend to be very poor mappings of real world ones and it's not as interesting to imagine alt-history scenarios for a history that was entirely made up in the first place. Minenfeld! posted:Friends and I basically only played axis nations in our multiplayer games for this reason. Though the most fun we had was in HOI2 playing as the pan slavic alliance of Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, and Poland, kicking Germany in the balls in 1936, puppeting Italy in 1937 and starting a hell war with the Soviets where the entirety of Eastern Europe ran out of manpower by 1942. One of the nice things about HoI4's expansions is that a lot of the focus tree additions allow you to do more stuff like this. There are a lot more options for being the "protagonist" nation of WW2 down the alt-history paths; even if a lot of them are fairly historically implausible, the point is to allow them to bootstrap themselves up to be on par with the Axis/Allies/Comintern with a bit of historical flavour, not really to present a "this could have really happened!" scenario. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Sep 13, 2021 |
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Sep 13, 2021 17:32
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Wouldn't a fantasy ww2 be even worse in this context? As the not-Germany would literally be clean and still attract all the wheraboos just as much as the real, not-clean Germany does? And if you make the not-Germany dirty, then why not just go back to the real setting at that point?
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Sep 13, 2021 17:38
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V for Vegas posted:Just gently caress off with your piles of money and your mentor and coach you fuckwit. After him hiring Swedracula and protecting NWW until the Incident... this is no surprise.
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Sep 13, 2021 17:39
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YF-23 posted:I'm as much for giving the middle finger to nazis as anyone but it seems kind of pointless to be talking about making warcrime leaders NPC countries. In a series of games such as Paradox's GSGs no less, where Europa Universalis gives you an "Attack natives" button and Victoria has you do the trail of tears. There is a serious discussion to be had about how these games whitewash history and feed into historical myths, but kneejerk suggestions like those do not meaningfully contribute to it. GrossMurpel posted:Yeah you gotta separate gameplay and ideology. TwoQuestions posted:Germany is basically the Protagonist Country of HOI, what with their not being hampered by World Tension like non-genocidal regimes are. If I had to implement predictable AI restrictions on NPC nations so they get stronger as you get stronger (to avoid the late-game roflstomp common to 4X games), World Tension is an ideal mechanic.
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Sep 13, 2021 17:41
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I understand not wanting to make a Holocaust Simulator, and throwing giant depressing text screens at the player every ten seconds TNO-style would just annoy people rather than teach them stuff but yeah, they should probably make a little more effort to show the Literal Nazis as, you know, terrible people Edit: of course saying that, once Victoria 3 launches I'm going to wage horribly brutal colonial wars in order to jumpstart my European countrys' industry so like maybe it's just hopeless? DaysBefore fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Sep 13, 2021 |
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Sep 13, 2021 17:50
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The difference is precisely that the other games actually include that poo poo, while HOI pretends like it didn't happen. It is not a knee-jerk suggestion to not want Paradox to promulgate actual (post-war) Nazi propaganda, which is what HOI currently does. But I just gave an example of picking ideology based on the gameplay and not the other way around. I'll gladly make the whole world communist if that focus tree is more fun.
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Sep 13, 2021 17:51
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:maybe they should lock the ussr and america too so you don't have to deal with their war crimes and community apologists too. hoi where you can only play as minors too pathetic to war crime and at the end of the war game it shows a score that says "here's how well you avoided fighting a war, you are a good and morally just person" you're pathetic
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Sep 13, 2021 18:08
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Goa Tse-tung posted:you're pathetic
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Sep 13, 2021 18:14
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There's a purge button when you're playing the USSR.
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Sep 13, 2021 18:17
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:maybe they should lock the ussr and america too so you don't have to deal with their war crimes and community apologists too. hoi where you can only play as minors too pathetic to war crime and at the end of the war game it shows a score that says "here's how well you avoided fighting a war, you are a good and morally just person" I can assure you there is no state small enough to not commit war crimes
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Sep 13, 2021 18:23
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GrossMurpel posted:But I just gave an example of picking ideology based on the gameplay and not the other way around. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:So should it be ignored that Stalin also genocided some ehtnic minorities or....? Yes, Germany was the worst but that doesnt make Stalin all squeaky clean or make the fact that the USA imprisoned people for being Asian.
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Sep 13, 2021 18:29
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Gaius Marius posted:I can assure you there is no state small enough to not commit war crimes Once your Andorran size any war crimes become simple municipal matters
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Sep 13, 2021 18:30
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is this the same thread that is excited for victoria 3? lmao. it's warcrimes and genocide all the way down, friends
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Sep 13, 2021 18:33
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Goa Tse-tung posted:you're pathetic dude you had the extremely stupid suggestion to make germany unplayable, no throwing stones in glass houses
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Sep 13, 2021 18:37
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HOI4 is only good as a platform for mods, the base game is very unfun and shallow
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Sep 13, 2021 18:43
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A Buttery Pastry posted:"But what about these other crimes against humanity", in the context of people putting a spotlight on the crimes of Germany during WW2 (and in this context, the Clean Wehrmacht version the game portrays), is like the classic move of Holocaust deniers though. Anyone doing that is lumping themselves in with Holocaust deniers, so getting called pathetic is getting off lightly. Germany's industrialized genocide was actually a unique evil, which is probably the exact reason why Paradox just pretends like it didn't happen. Germany was by far the worst but most people know about it (and far too many deny it) meanwhile Stalin gets treated as a gentleman that was friends with FDR in history books. All this to disagree with "Germany should not be playable in HoI". I'd rather see events like Romania gets for its King's lifestyle, but worse, where Hitler suddenly diverts resources for something bad. Make players sign an affirmation of "Yes I understand that Hitler and Nazi Germany committed mass murderer on a horrific scale" to get the flavor text about genocide to go away. I dunno, something needs to be done.
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Sep 13, 2021 18:48
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:is this the same thread that is excited for victoria 3? lmao. it's warcrimes and genocide all the way down, friends Vicky 3 is profoundly unlikely to ignore/whitewash these things, and it will be nice to play a game as mechanically deep as HOI or EU4 without the game being primarily about mass murder and death.
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Sep 13, 2021 18:49
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HOI5 should just be a war crimes clicker idle game.
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Sep 13, 2021 18:49
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Let's compile a list of worst crimes against humanity! 1 Germany 2 USSR 3 Japan 4 USA 5 China Any additions?
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Sep 13, 2021 18:49
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GrossMurpel posted:Let's compile a list of worst crimes against humanity! In WW2 context? UK. (Also outside, but then you need to talk about Belgium, and the Ottomans, and Pol Pot, etc.)
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Sep 13, 2021 18:53
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