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namesake posted:This is a really limited view of human happiness and desire as simple hedonism. Humanity suffers under capitalism because our productive and creative potentials are crushed by the needs of exploiters and capital accumulation, entering a 'paradise' which still robs humanity of the ability to engage with the fundamentals of its existence and (crucially) work to change them will inevitably create a similar level of discontent, even if 'suffering' is no longer possible. Point 6 addresses hobbies which I imagine would include any creative arts (like music, writing, woodworking, or shitposting) that people tend to try and do when they have spare time and resources.
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Sep 13, 2021 09:51
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namesake posted:This is a really limited view of human happiness and desire as simple hedonism. Humanity suffers under capitalism because our productive and creative potentials are crushed by the needs of exploiters and capital accumulation, entering a 'paradise' which still robs humanity of the ability to engage with the fundamentals of its existence and (crucially) work to change them will inevitably create a similar level of discontent, even if 'suffering' is no longer possible. How about we just have a button that injects you with chemicals that make you feel exactly the way you want, accomplished, engaging with the fundamentals of your existence, whatever, and you can just mash that button as hard as you want over and over. What about that.
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Sep 13, 2021 09:57
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Like gently caress, humanity's had tens of thousands of years to engage with the fundamentals of our existence and look what we did in that time. Hook me up to the hedonism pod and gimme that button to mash, let another species have its chance to become ascended beings and/or ruin everything.
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Sep 13, 2021 10:01
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Paradise matrix can't be a cruise ship because im not rikers beard on the enterprise
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Sep 13, 2021 10:40
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Shame Boy posted:Neo, what if I told you you could gently caress and suck New thread title, please mods.
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Sep 13, 2021 10:49
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Miftan posted:Point 6 addresses hobbies which I imagine would include any creative arts (like music, writing, woodworking, or shitposting) that people tend to try and do when they have spare time and resources. But that's not the crux of the issue. Having capacity to do all of that stuff will satisfy a lot of people but it's still a hedonistic approach to happiness as it's all peripheral to determining the mechanisms of how they live. Take food as an example, the always replenished buffets etc. It's true that abolishing hunger is essential but what about if people get bored of the way the trays are laid out but the Matrix has determined that they're already in the optimal paradise pattern and there's no option to get it changed? Or what about those that enjoy cooking for themselves and others? Should they always succeed in cooking a perfect meal (as it is paradise), if so how is it different from what the buffet offers? If they can mess it up, is it paradise? I'd consider the potential of imperfection or outright failure, giving meaning to human activity itself, is the key to providing happiness and selfworth to humanity. Assuming a fully automated luxury communism or virtual reality it should then be the right and duty of the inhabitants to look at the parts of the process of production and reproduction of society and decide what parts of it they'd rather accomplish themselves more manually, introducing variability and risk into the whole process but also connecting humanity directly into determining how society is reproduced not just through abstract decisions but genuine participation. If the Matrix failed to get that then humanity rejecting paradise is quite reasonable. Shame Boy posted:How about we just have a button that injects you with chemicals that make you feel exactly the way you want, accomplished, engaging with the fundamentals of your existence, whatever, and you can just mash that button as hard as you want over and over. What about that. If that's possible then yeah it'd work but we're discussing what happened in the Matrix and what my view of possible futures are. Reducing happiness to 'what if this thing definitely makes you happy' is kinda skipping the actual problem.
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Sep 13, 2021 10:50
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I'd read it as people can do all that poo poo and they can mess up but not in a way big enough to cause themselves or others to get hurt or sick. The real question here imo being what does it mean to not be able to get hurt? Does it include emotionally hurt from interactions with other human beings? Cus that probably fundamentally undermines (ie. removes) what it means to be human. But I was leaving that aside and focusing on the material side of things. Which like, I still don't think that sounds like something to reject, but instead exactly what we ought to be striving for. Then again, messing up big enough to cause hurt or sick is the only way idiots ever learn to stop being giant idiots (success of learning not guaranteed) and being precluded from having such moments of growth might already be a fundamental undermining of what it means to be human. I don't know I guess it's just all like, very philosophical and like, deep, man. Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 11:20 on Sep 13, 2021 |
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Sep 13, 2021 11:18
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Facebook Aunt posted:Smith may have fundamentally not understood human psychology. If you have no lived experience and consult media records to determine what humans would consider paradise you'll probably come up with a beach resort or a loving cruise ship because that's what large numbers of people desire to do on their vacations. What do humans consider bad? Sickness, death, old age, pain, failure, etc. https://youtu.be/j4IFNKYmLa8
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Sep 13, 2021 11:32
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Humans are the joe biden of the animal world I will not elaborate
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Sep 13, 2021 12:09
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tokin opposition posted:Humans are the joe biden of the animal world Elaboration not required, it's fully explained here
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Sep 13, 2021 12:56
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Shame Boy posted:Like gently caress, humanity's had tens of thousands of years to engage with the fundamentals of our existence and look what we did in that time. Hook me up to the hedonism pod and gimme that button to mash, let another species have its chance to become ascended beings and/or ruin everything. ive been listening to a lot of ancient history stuff (creation of the celts, the aztecs, roman culture, etc) and it really does feel like every once in a while, some cultures do figure it out. thing is, they're massacred by the warrior culture as soon as the two meet. its the "we need to murder and subjugate everyone that isn't us" cultures that spread, mostly because they murder and subjugate everyone that has different ideas
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Sep 13, 2021 13:13
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^^ah, the Outside Context Problem Orange Devil posted:1. loving yeah it’s basically living on a Culture GSV and that poo poo definitely owns indigi has issued a correction as of 13:24 on Sep 13, 2021 |
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Sep 13, 2021 13:21
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Yes, please shove me directly the gently caress into the matrix paradise simulation.
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Sep 13, 2021 14:17
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Biplane posted:Yes, please shove me directly the gently caress into the matrix paradise simulation. You are already in it.
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Sep 13, 2021 14:26
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Wonder how far away we are from some tech guy saying they're going to solve the climate crisis and food shortages etc by getting people to consent to go into the matrix pods and live in vr except you get in and it looks like second life and unless you pay for matrix premium you just get constant ads at ear splitting volume and you can't turn them off
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Sep 13, 2021 14:28
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I wish I had the brain gene instead of the opposite word gene I wonder if Marie Antoinette had fans as fervent as Elizabeth Holmes seems to I also wish I'd quoted at least one of the relevant posts 6 pages back but, alas, they are now forever lost to this world
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Sep 13, 2021 14:44
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the sex ghost posted:Wonder how far away we are from some tech guy saying they're going to solve the climate crisis and food shortages etc by getting people to consent to go into the matrix pods and live in vr except you get in and it looks like second life and unless you pay for matrix premium you just get constant ads at ear splitting volume and you can't turn them off In a year or so investor funding will dry up and you'll either be unceremoniously ejected from your pod to fend for yourself with your atrophied limbs or just die.
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Sep 13, 2021 14:51
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Or made to do mental and emotional labor to pay for your pods upkeep. And if we ever figure out something like the matrix pods they will be used instead of prisons. Much safer and more efficent.
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Sep 13, 2021 15:15
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Hedonism pod and chemical blocker for formation of short term memories, let's gooo
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Sep 13, 2021 16:07
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Baudolino posted:Or made to do mental and emotional labor to pay for your pods upkeep. In this case, the simulation will just be one counterstrike map with no other players and also no weapons. And we're talking original half life graphics.
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Sep 13, 2021 16:31
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https://twitter.com/nickbilton/status/1437420806317830151 https://twitter.com/MorningBrew/status/1437422715883999246
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Sep 13, 2021 17:01
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the sex ghost posted:Wonder how far away we are from some tech guy saying they're going to solve the climate crisis and food shortages etc by getting people to consent to go into the matrix pods and live in vr except you get in and it looks like second life and unless you pay for matrix premium you just get constant ads at ear splitting volume and you can't turn them off I already live this at work. Windows had an update where now they materialize a giant box that takes up a quarter of my screen with news, weather from Seattle (I live in Ohio), and updates about Microsoft products
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Sep 13, 2021 17:04
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the sex ghost posted:Wonder how far away we are from some tech guy saying they're going to solve the climate crisis and food shortages etc by getting people to consent to go into the matrix pods and live in vr except you get in and it looks like second life and unless you pay for matrix premium you just get constant ads at ear splitting volume and you can't turn them off https://youtu.be/IFe9wiDfb0E
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Sep 13, 2021 17:09
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Business Gorillas posted:I already live this at work. Windows had an update where now they materialize a giant box that takes up a quarter of my screen with news, weather from Seattle (I live in Ohio), and updates about Microsoft products You live in Seattle in ur heart Rent's $5000 a month
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Sep 13, 2021 17:10
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Splicer posted:Humans require icecream This guy gets it.  Orange Devil posted:I also had quite a stretch of sadbrain as a result of among others unemployment so I know exactly what you are getting at but consider: 3. Is because your body isn't actually doing the things you think you are doing. Your cruise ship will never have an outbreak of novo virus because no one is really breathing or pooping on the ship. You're never going to get food poisoning from dodgy seafood because you're not really eating seafood, you're eating nutrient slurry. If you gently caress up your dive off the high diving board you won't crack your skull open, because your skull is safe in a pod somewhere. Saw at your wrists all day if you want, you'll never bleed to death. Spend all day at the open bar, you'll never get alcohol poisoning, heck you'll probably never even get tipsy because the machines won't pump your real body full of recreational neurotoxin. Your actual physical body still exists, pale and moist, and could malfunction but this may or may not be acknowledged inside the simulation. So sadbrains could happen. Heart disease could happen. 6. Yes, in a real resort you could. And some people could meet all their desire for excitement, risk and achievement by sitting around a table playing D&D with their friends. The risk of a TPK can make your heart pound even know you know that you personally are not in danger. Videogames can be very exciting and lead to gamer words and table flipping. But we also know that the "Paradise" simulation failed, so maybe it didn't provide those outlets. A desire to strive for excellence and achievement doesn't have to mean capitalist achievement or the possibility of destructive failure. They could have had a simulation where people are colonizing Mars and there is lots of hard work and struggle and perceived danger (but somehow only the NPCs ever die) and everyone feels great about their imaginary accomplishments without anyone else having to live in a dingy basement. They could have a simulation where you are literally on the Enterprise doing exploration and diplomacy, you and everyone else has nice private quarters and all the holodeck time you want. They could have a simulation where you are homesteaders living in a Little House on the Prairie building a life on the frontier. Maybe the problem was a single simulation will never appeal to everyone. We don't all enjoy the same videogames. Some people like fast paced shooters, some people get satisfaction from rerouting sewage pipes in intricate management games. If everyone on earth was forced to play nothing but Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball for the rest of their lives some people would be unhappy.
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Sep 13, 2021 18:41
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Facebook Aunt posted:Your actual physical body How did you know?
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Sep 13, 2021 19:11
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Bismuth posted:How did you know? Am goon.
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Sep 13, 2021 19:13
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https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/1436786912199593987
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Sep 13, 2021 21:53
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Bismuth posted:How did you know? Good idea, you can only keep one body but give everyone's consciousness a time slice on it.
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Sep 13, 2021 22:32
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Shame Boy posted:How about we just have a button that injects you with chemicals that make you feel exactly the way you want, accomplished, engaging with the fundamentals of your existence, whatever, and you can just mash that button as hard as you want over and over. What about that. This guy gets it. We don't want the Matrix, we want The Culture. Suck and gently caress, custom drug glands, live as long as you want, get whatever cybernetic or biotech enhancements you want and swap em out whenever, sassy drone AIs. The Matrix ain't poo poo by comparison.
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Sep 13, 2021 23:58
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Ensign Expendable posted:In a year or so investor funding will dry up and you'll either be unceremoniously ejected from your pod to fend for yourself with your atrophied limbs or just die. Isn't that exactly what happened at a bunch of cryogenic freezing places from the 80s.
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Sep 14, 2021 00:01
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Marenghi posted:Isn't that exactly what happened at a bunch of cryogenic freezing places from the 80s. Those people were 100% already dead though
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Sep 14, 2021 00:02
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The Matrix Reloaded highway scene except from the POV of some dude that's just trying to get to home from work on time for his kids birthday party and some assholes keep jumping on trucks and flipping them over in the next lane
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Sep 14, 2021 00:15
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Ensign Expendable posted:In a year or so investor funding will dry up and you'll either be unceremoniously ejected from your pod to fend for yourself with your atrophied limbs or just die. The series 'upload' addresses this. If you can't pay for your digital room and board you get stuck in the '2 gig floor' where you can only use 2 gigs of data a month which, aesthetically is this horrible bland featureless purgatory. Virtual food is beta tested by the castaways in that realm. Have fun subsisting on Lean Cuisine microwavable Quinoa and Kale wraps!
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Sep 14, 2021 00:51
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BonHair posted:In this case, the simulation will just be one counterstrike map with no other players and also no weapons. And we're talking original half life graphics. I have no mouth and I must scream (slurs) Hollandia has issued a correction as of 01:38 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 01:18
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If I have access to an all-powerful and accurate simulation it will keep me entertained for 100 years at least before I needed a memory wipe
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Sep 14, 2021 11:57
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BonHair posted:In this case, the simulation will just be one counterstrike map with no other players and also no weapons. And we're talking original half life graphics.
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Sep 14, 2021 12:17
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The Nastier Nate posted:The Matrix Reloaded highway scene except from the POV of some dude that's just trying to get to home from work on time for his kids birthday party and some assholes keep jumping on trucks and flipping them over in the next lane Falling Down 2077
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Sep 14, 2021 12:34
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Panfilo posted:The series 'upload' addresses this. If you can't pay for your digital room and board you get stuck in the '2 gig floor' where you can only use 2 gigs of data a month which, aesthetically is this horrible bland featureless purgatory. thats just my current life but with extra steps
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Sep 14, 2021 13:08
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*banging on the pod door* let me gently caress and suck the machines!!!
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Sep 14, 2021 21:12
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