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Why the gently caress would you have weighting for a federal PR system lol Anyway going by time in power Canada is barely avoiding One Party state status as is. Given that the red tory apparatus is all dogshit it literally is.
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Sep 14, 2021 02:36
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StealthArcher posted:Why the gently caress would you have weighting for a federal PR system lol iirc there's some constitutional thing that gets in the way of pure national PR but I can't remember what exactly it is at the moment
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Sep 14, 2021 02:43
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ToxicAcne posted:I don't get why the NDP don't hold electoral reform as a precondition for their support for a minority government. Hell even the Conservatives are getting burned by it considering their lovely vote efficiency. Liberals would rather let the Conservatives win than ever agree to this
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Sep 14, 2021 02:45
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x-post I just got a PPC flyer in the mail. Apparently the candidates for Toronto-St. Pauls and Davenport are husband and wife, and they made one leaflet for three ridings. Also, all the candidates and the local campaign group are using free Gmail addresses.
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Sep 14, 2021 02:48
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infernal machines posted:x-post Finally, efficiencies in politics
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Sep 14, 2021 02:55
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:libs are the "safe" party is one i hear a lot “Canada’s Natural Governing Party” 
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Sep 14, 2021 02:57
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FormaldehydeSon posted:Finally, efficiencies in politics i guess we can trust them to be fiscally responsible
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Sep 14, 2021 02:58
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The constitutional thing that keeps away true proportional representation is called the senatorial clause which means that no province can have fewer seats in the house of commons than they have in the senate. It's why PEI has four seats while having the population of a single Ontario Riding. Edit: It's also a preview as to why Constitutional Reform in Canada is so important.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:12
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step 1: abolish senate step 2: mmpr step 3: socdem utopia
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Sep 14, 2021 03:13
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The liberals are Canada's natural ruling party TM and this seems to get more true every election. Congrats on advance to Justin
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Sep 14, 2021 03:16
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congrats to eternal prime minister trudeau
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Sep 14, 2021 03:20
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the liberals' biggest mistake wrt electoral reform was not simply outlawing elections in 2015 could have saved everyone a lot of headache
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Sep 14, 2021 03:25
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https://twitter.com/wereinhellyt/status/1437495350571438084?s=21
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Sep 14, 2021 03:25
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oh wow. lmao
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Sep 14, 2021 03:26
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I have a theory that some people just really like lawn signs. and/or can't say no to people on their doorstep asking "can we put a sign up"
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Sep 14, 2021 03:28
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:step 1: abolish senate Mind you, even this isn't as big of a solution as many Dippers think. Most of Europe and New Zealand have proportional representation and they're still neoliberal hellholes. One thing about MMP I've wondered is that it seems like it entrenches a softer version of the two party system. See Germany with the SPD and CDU with the other parties being junior coalition partners at best. New Zealand is the same.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:29
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To be fair anyone left of neolib gets couped by the cia
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Sep 14, 2021 03:45
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ToxicAcne posted:This country probably produces the most distorted FPTP results in the western world. I don't get how people are OK with it. In March 2004, the Law Commission of Canada proposed a system of MMP,[22] with only 33% of MPs elected from regional open lists, for the House of Commons of Canada[23] but Parliament's consideration of the Report in 2004-5 was stopped after the 2006 election. The New Democratic Party has been a longtime supporter of MMP. The Green Party of Canada has generally been a staunch supporter of a move to a proportional electoral system. A proposal to adopt MMP with closed province-wide lists for elections to the Legislative Assembly of Prince Edward Island was defeated in a referendum in 2005. In 2007, the Citizens' Assembly on Electoral Reform in Ontario, Canada, also recommended the use of MMP in future elections to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, with a ballot similar to New Zealand's, and with the closed province-wide lists used in New Zealand but with only 30% compensatory members. A binding referendum on the proposal, held in conjunction with the provincial election on 10 October 2007, saw it defeated.[24] In June 2016, the Canadian House of Commons Special Committee on Electoral Reform was formed to examine potential changes to the voting system with MMP being one of the options examined. The committee presented its report to Parliament on 1 December of the same year. In early 2017, the Government announced that it would accept only some of the committee's recommendations, and would not pursue the issue of electoral reform any further.[25][26] In a non-binding plebiscite between 27 October and 7 November 2016, Prince Edward Islanders voted for MMP over FPTP in the final round of counting, 52%–43%; however, the provincial government, despite having set no voter turnout threshold, subsequently claimed that the 36 percent turnout was insufficient to change the electoral system.[27] A second referendum, held simultaneously with the provincial election, saw MMP rejected by a margin of 48% in favor to 52% against, with 76% turnout. During October–December 2018, British Columbia held a referendum on proportional representation,[28] promised as part of the election platform of the British Columbia New Democratic Party who took office following the May 2017 provincial election. In the referendum citizens were presented with two questions. The first question asked them to choose whether they would like to keep first-past-the-post voting or change to proportional representation. The second question asked them to rank three types of proportional voting systems in order of preference; one of those was MMP.[29] Citizens could still rank the voting systems even if they selected first-past-the-post voting in the first question. According to official results, voters chose FPTP over PR by 61.3% to 38.7% on the first question. While the first question was not successful for PR, the second question resulted in MMP winning over the two other systems on the ballot. If PR had been successful on the first question, MMP would have been adopted in time for the next provincial election and would have been subject to a second referendum after two election cycles. Quebec's government, supported by 2 of the 3 opposition parties (PQ and Quebec Solidaire), has introduced a referendum on MMP that will be held in 2022.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:53
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the answer is this country is full of soft brained morons. meanwhile over in noway their mixed proportional system means there's at least 3-4 parties to the left of their labour party in government which is going to force the incoming coalition government left on a bunch of issues, because people are free to vote their conscience without worrying about vote splitting
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Sep 14, 2021 03:55
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The Quebec referendum got cancelled too IIRC. The BC NDP just seems like the shittiest caricature of a western social democratic party at this point too. They effectively sabotaged the referendum over there. Edit: But yeah whether due to misunderstanding what MMP is or due to generally liking FPTP, Canadians continue to dissapoint.
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Sep 14, 2021 03:56
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im sure the labour party in norway will not just do the same thing every labour party does
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Sep 14, 2021 03:59
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I remember that Ontario referendum, the OLP government sent out the most intentionally confusing voter information kits I've ever seen almost like............ they didn't want people to vote for change??????
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Sep 14, 2021 04:01
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Juul-Whip posted:im sure the labour party in norway will not just do the same thing every labour party does not unless they want to lose a vote of confidence and get booted out they're forming a government with one of their lowest vote shares in their post ww2 history  meanwhile the NDP are so loving weak they won't even demand minor cabinet seats as a price for propping up a liberal government mila kunis has issued a correction as of 04:20 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 04:06
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ToxicAcne posted:The Quebec referendum got cancelled too IIRC. You are correct, and they blamed it on covid lol
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Sep 14, 2021 04:15
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Alberta used to have a bunch of weird electoral stuff like having members for soliders and nurses serving in ww1 and having proportional ish representatives from Edmonton, I think up to 5 from the same jurisdiction
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Sep 14, 2021 08:49
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pokeyman posted:I have a theory that some people just really like lawn signs. and/or can't say no to people on their doorstep asking "can we put a sign up" theres always that person that has one from every party i think its cute
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Sep 14, 2021 12:06
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vyelkin posted:I remember that Ontario referendum, the OLP government sent out the most intentionally confusing voter information kits I've ever seen I remember the ontario effort going like this. There was no side pushing either for or against and people had no clue what they were voting for so chose no or didn't even bother to tick any box
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Sep 14, 2021 14:29
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There was a bunch of FUD spreading around party lists and how you didn't get to directly vote for every MPP, so the next incarnation of Hitler might sneak in on a party list or something. I will say that MMP was a pretty confusing system to go with in the first place. Something like a regional party list system probably would have made more sense (and be more reflective of how government actually works)
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Sep 14, 2021 14:36
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enki42 posted:There was a bunch of FUD spreading around party lists and how you didn't get to directly vote for every MPP, which is hilarious because like 70% of people think they're voting for the premier anyway
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Sep 14, 2021 14:39
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i have been consistent about this for many years now that i think the best system for canada is nationwide mmp where there are no party lists and instead the top-up seats are taken from the losing candidates who came the closest to winning their ridings (balanced by province), that way everybody has to run a local election campaign, every mp is tied to a specific district where they act as a representative, local voters always have the choice to reject somebody even if they're a party bigwig who would be top of a list, and voters' preferences are reflected even in tight races where two candidates are neck and neck
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Sep 14, 2021 14:40
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we should just get rid of representatives and have a peoples assembly of every citizen vote directly on laws over the internet
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Sep 14, 2021 14:45
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Rutibex posted:we should just get rid of representatives and have a peoples assembly of every citizen vote directly on laws over the internet This would be a terrible idea. Throw anonymity into Canadians choice of whether to maintain social policies and you'll get authoritarian austerity with more cops and watch as more and more services are privatized.
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Sep 14, 2021 14:49
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Not to mention requiring internet access to participate in democracy is an accessibility nightmare.
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Sep 14, 2021 14:50
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pr voting doesnt really solve any of the actual issues in this country and just makes voting feel better hth
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Sep 14, 2021 14:52
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lol if you vote
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Sep 14, 2021 14:55
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gj perpetuating the myth of democracy, and being willing pawns of the apparatus of power that the elite wields vote with an ak
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Sep 14, 2021 14:58
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What, like shoot at the ballot 
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Sep 14, 2021 15:00
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vyelkin posted:i have been consistent about this for many years now that i think the best system for canada is nationwide mmp where there are no party lists and instead the top-up seats are taken from the losing candidates who came the closest to winning their ridings (balanced by province), that way everybody has to run a local election campaign, every mp is tied to a specific district where they act as a representative, local voters always have the choice to reject somebody even if they're a party bigwig who would be top of a list, and voters' preferences are reflected even in tight races where two candidates are neck and neck This... sounds pretty good.
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Sep 14, 2021 15:02
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Hand Knit posted:This... sounds pretty good. It's too accountable to voters that's how you know it has no chance
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Sep 14, 2021 15:03
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Hand Knit posted:This... sounds pretty good. yeah, is this system used elsewhere or was it devised by you vyelkin? it tackles the usual talking point of "but what about my REPRESENTITIVE?" quite well (not that local representation even has any place at all in modern canadian parliaments, but politicians like to pretend it does). the only thing i would fear in trying to pitch this would be the complexity involved in explaining it would be an easy target for detractors, maybe moreso than typical pr schemes
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Sep 14, 2021 15:06
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