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An okay start, with the potential to be incredible. There's a lot of systems I enjoy much more in HK than Civ, it just needs refinement. Worth buying in now? I dunno. The early game is really solid and while the game breaks at the end game, I guess depends on if that sounds worth putting up with to you.
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Sep 14, 2021 05:06
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H13 posted:Sooooo...
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Sep 14, 2021 05:06
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H13 posted:Sooooo... Good game. I'm really enjoying it, despite the balance issues. I hope they take the time to support and perfect it because I'm a huge Civilization fan and this fixes almost everything that bugs me about Civ.
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Sep 14, 2021 05:09
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It's good enough now that I'll probably never play civ 6 again and civ 7 will have to really change some poo poo for me to even think about it and I've played thousands of hours of civ.
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Sep 14, 2021 06:36
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Yeah I'm really enjoying it.
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Sep 14, 2021 06:38
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greazeball posted:It's good enough now that I'll probably never play civ 6 again and civ 7 will have to really change some poo poo for me to even think about it and I've played thousands of hours of civ. That's an interesting point. I've contemplated opening Civ 6 again to see how it feels now- I do love the game- but I'm pretty certain I'll just quit the first time my own units get snarled in a traffic jam, or an enemy invasion force patiently lines up to embark onto lake tiles one at a time to get shot..... Considering the difference between ES2 at launch and ES2 after the expansions (or at least, the good expansions) I'm reasonably confident my remaining irritations with HK will be addressed.
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Sep 14, 2021 08:54
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H13 posted:Sooooo... absolutely good game
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Sep 14, 2021 11:10
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It's pretty entertaining but couldn't keep me playing it because it's too samey and easy to break. And as has been said the last 2 eras only exist as a joke. It has potential but some of the problems stem from bizarre decisions and not just numbers being off. I'm mostly thinking about the weird pacing and how the game tried having characters represent various empires but then made them so uninteresting and fleeting you don't get any kind of story arc to a playthrough.
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Sep 14, 2021 12:34
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Brandfarlig posted:It's pretty entertaining but couldn't keep me playing it because it's too samey and easy to break. And as has been said the last 2 eras only exist as a joke. It has potential but some of the problems stem from bizarre decisions and not just numbers being off. I'm mostly thinking about the weird pacing and how the game tried having characters represent various empires but then made them so uninteresting and fleeting you don't get any kind of story arc to a playthrough. I feel like your own Empire has a better story arc and connection than your Empire in Civ but yeah the other Empires around you don't.
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Sep 14, 2021 13:08
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It would probably help if empires were referred to as "so-and-so's empire" instead of whatever civilization they are at moment
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Sep 14, 2021 13:14
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Thom12255 posted:I feel like your own Empire has a better story arc and connection than your Empire in Civ but yeah the other Empires around you don't. Sure. Haven't played civ so I can't very well compare them but I'm not that impressed by your own story either. I've played a shitload of Crusader Kings though so maybe I'm making an unfair comparison.
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Sep 14, 2021 13:28
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World Famous W posted:It would probably help if empires were referred to as "so-and-so's empire" instead of whatever civilization they are at moment Also if they were a bit more interactive beyond "plz give trade agreement" or "let's not fight/maybe be allowed to fight". Like you've got loads of grievances against me because I razed your favourite porcelain mine, you should be abusing me through diplomatic channels and making threats, not just sitting there going "we don't like what you did" for 100 years and then going "ok never mind".
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Sep 14, 2021 13:44
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there are too many broken mechanics and outright bugs for me to say this game is good, but it is a solid effort and it is interesting at least. i didn't get really burned out on it until i had put dozens of hours in i think the state of the game, especially the completely botched endgame, and all of the delays in production indicate that the design is fundamentally flawed. they tried to figure out how to fix it to make the game playable all the way through, but simply ran out of time well, its an amplitude studios game, so i kinda knew going into it that it would look very great and have some cool ideas while also being wildly unbalanced and broken
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Sep 14, 2021 14:58
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I've only played about 30 hours before putting it up, but I still had a great time with it and when the mood strikes for me to play this kind of game, it's going to be either Humankind or Stellaris for me personally.
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Sep 14, 2021 15:54
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Chamale posted:They had extensive beta testing of the early eras, but not the later ones. Maybe have non-emblematic quarters gated behind population. Don't require a pop to "work" the quarter a la Civ, but just a district cap per city? Like maybe it's 5 quarters standard with +10 for capital +5 for researching hospitals or whatever. So sure pound out 5 quarters in 1 turn when you up the cap, but you won't skyrocket to infinite launching 100 Mars rockets within a year of discovering steam.
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Sep 14, 2021 20:16
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Pangea games are interesting ime because land wars are more likely to happen and trade is harder because resources are both more expensive to purchase due to minimal sea routes and because neighbors can easily screw you over by blocking trade routes with wars or demands.
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Sep 14, 2021 23:40
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Danann posted:Pangea games are interesting ime because land wars are more likely to happen and trade is harder because resources are both more expensive to purchase due to minimal sea routes and because neighbors can easily screw you over by blocking trade routes with wars or demands. It kinda gets silly with the sea routes. I've had contiguous land borders with other empires with obviously passable terrain and couldn't trade with them because "there are no routes available".
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Sep 15, 2021 10:40
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i've been playing two-continent games with new world enabled, so the neolithic era is always the wild west. i'm up to whatever the 2nd to last difficulty is, and the ai still gets wrecked by playing intelligently and burning down their outposts. in one game, completely bodied one empire so hard they were still in the neolithic stage while i was hitting classical. then their scouts kept spawning deep in my territory after i killed them, because the game just respawns your scout if you're in the neolithic. and all this is before you get to the ancient era, pick harappans, and immediately steal the ai cities with your 4 stacks of unique scouts. last night played a game where i had 3 cites by turn 34 on ENDLESS SPEED. i didn't even want to keep playing that one because there would have been no challenge to it. all this said, love the game, fun on its own and has tons of potential.
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Sep 15, 2021 19:47
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Is there a good tier list of cultures yet?
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Sep 16, 2021 16:15
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S tier- production civs A tier - some random poo poo like Celts, Myceneans, usually an early civ with a strong unique.
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Sep 16, 2021 20:53
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the ai has got it right - the s tier civ is harappans
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Sep 16, 2021 20:59
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myceneans, harappans, and egyptians are all really strong. celts are great but don't take them if you took harappan, there's not as much value from tripling down on ag civs or on production civs versus taking an excellent ag, an excellent prod, then a milciv or something to be well rounded rather than highly specialized. if you take too many prod civs then you become dependent on building a shitload of districts and its easy to fall behind in money or science or something. likewise, too many ag civs and you'll have a massive pop which you can't put to productive work for lack of districts, or you'll field a giant army you can't afford to maintain like, maya are really good, but so are egyptians, and khmer are insane. of the three, i'd prefer not to take mayans if possible, because then yeah i've got ridiculous production on my cities but i'm starting to lag behind in other things i need and so i have to spend more time spamming districts to make up for the deficiency, which means i have to take care not to let my stability suffer, etc.
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Sep 16, 2021 21:17
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Based on my experience with Humankind difficulty, the Khmer and Turks are S, if you pick anything except those you are probably making a mistake. Production and food are pretty important for the early game, but there's also a lot of value in being well-rounded, so a for a tier list you have to consider what weaknesses you're trying to fill in.
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Sep 16, 2021 21:24
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There are other cultures that are S tier if you want to just conquer a bunch of poo poo like the Huns, Mongols, and Soviets, but yeah it's just all the production cultures. I play a game and I feel like if I don't choose Khmer I'm handicapping myself. This game needs so much work but a balance patch would be super easy. Still fun though.
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Sep 16, 2021 21:27
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Memes aside I think the first two eras have a lot of really strong and interesting choices. It's just the medieval wall of Khmer being way too good and everything else being kind of mediocre. And then for the later eras that dynamic is continued. But like just focusing on the first two eras (ie the ones that really matter I'd do like.  I don't think Harappa is that good to be S, but the Greek and Persians deserve it because the hoplite and immortal are two of the best units in the game that arrive just when you need them. Easy to research, insanely strong especially against the main threat of the era, and both civs have decent bonuses otherwise. Nubia could probably be in B since you'll likely never lose the Egyptians, but they are just a slightly weaker version so they deserve some respect. Zhou is a bit specialized, needing mountains, but they are great at setting up a strong game later on. Carthage is insane but you need to be able to put a harbor in every territory you own, but still those Cothons are only slightly weaker Barays. Rest are whatever, Babylon is neat if you're doing a one city transcend challenge, and I'd only avoid picking D tier stuff as they are so bad, whether in unit or district and you have so much choice.
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Sep 16, 2021 21:27
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harappa is really good IF you have a lot of rivers, otherwise they're solidly good but not OP. sometimes you have that start thats just a mess of rivers all over and then harappa is a no brainer
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Sep 16, 2021 22:16
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Harappa also depends heavily on how many tribes you pick up before going to the Ancient era as the spike to Runners, and the ability to out-class (or match depending on difficulty) AI is a huge deal as it can ensure you can run around pillaging outposts, out-scout for goodie huts, and just generally gently caress with the AI.
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Sep 16, 2021 22:30
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i think in all cases going into ancient with more scouts is useful, but not as useful as slamming that first pick if you start in river wonderland and want to grab harappa asap the big advantage to runners imo is that all of your scouts immediately upgrade and start doing work instead of having to tech up and pay money or worse, find the correct resources. like its not super hard to get both horses and bronze but its possible to be screwed out of your emblematic unit without some annoying steps, instead of just being gifted a bunch of turboscouts immediately
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Sep 16, 2021 23:02
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Eimi posted:Nubia could probably be in B since you'll likely never lose the Egyptians, but they are just a slightly weaker version so they deserve some respect. Zhou is a bit specialized, needing mountains, but they are great at setting up a strong game later on. Carthage is insane but you need to be able to put a harbor in every territory you own, but still those Cothons are only slightly weaker Barays. More expensive though. Harbor costs scale twice as fast as other districts according to the wiki. Though I guess that doesn't matter if you build them first. What difficulty are you guys that are styling on the AI with runners playing on? On humankind it feels like scouts really aren't strong enough to beat up the AI with. Maybe the +1 strength is enough to make that possible but I suspect you'd still need better units.
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Sep 17, 2021 01:06
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In my opinion, this is the tierlist for Humankind difficulty, based on having won several games against the AI. S tier: Pick this if you have the chance A tier: Very strong. It’s usually best to choose a mix of focuses B tier: Worth taking over A if your terrain gets you a lot of bonuses C tier: Not preferred choices D tier: Terrible The best military culture for each era is marked with an asterisk. Ancient: A: Egyptians (Builder) B: Babylonians (Science), Harappans (Food), Myceneans* (War), Zhou (Science) C: Nubians (Gold), Olmecs (Influence), Phoenicians (Gold) D: Assyrians (Expansion), Hittites (War) Classical: S: Achaemenid Persians (Expansion) A: Celts (Food), Maya (Builder) B: Carthaginians (Gold), Huns* (War), Greeks (Science), Romans* (Expansion) C: Mauryans (Influence) D: Aksumites (Gold), Goths (War) Medieval: S: Khmer (Builder) A: B: English* (Food), Mongols* (War), Teutons (Expansion) C: Aztecs (War), Franks (Influence), Ghanaians (Gold), Norsemen (War) D: Umayyads (Science), Byzantines (Gold) Early Modern: A: Haudenosaunee (Food), Mughals* (Builder) B: Edo Japanese (Influence), Joseon (Science), Ming (Influence) C: Dutch (Gold), Ottomans (Expansion), Poles (War) D: Spanish (Expansion), Venetians (Gold) Industrial: A: Mexicans (Food), Siamese (Builder)* B: Austro-Hungarians (Influence), French (Science), Persians (Builder) C: Germans (War), Italians (Influence) D: British (Expansion), Russians (Expansion), Zulu (War) Contemporary: S: Turks (Food) A: Japanese (Science), Swedes (Science) B: Australians (Builder), Egyptians (Influence), Soviets* (Expansion) C: Brazilians (Food), Indians (Influence) D: Americans (Expansion), Chinese (Gold) Chamale fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Sep 18, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 08:41
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In my experience, the immediate science and gold you will earn from simply picking the British by far outweighs their lackluster district. Their bonus is for all of your incorporated territories, not just the ones linked directly to the capital. Blows the French science bonus out of the drat water, unless you built heavy science already or pick Turks next era, but in either case you won't actually need it. Redcoats are Motherfuckers.
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Sep 17, 2021 08:55
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Veryslightlymad posted:In my experience, the immediate science and gold you will earn from simply picking the British by far outweighs their lackluster district. Their bonus is for all of your incorporated territories, not just the ones linked directly to the capital. Blows the French science bonus out of the drat water, unless you built heavy science already or pick Turks next era, but in either case you won't actually need it. Redcoats are Motherfuckers. That's true, but the new era should be a frenzy of cranking out emblematic districts, which means the French will quickly eclipse the British in science. Emblematic districts are so important, and the British one is not possible to build at all in many games.
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Sep 17, 2021 09:07
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Expansion also does no favor for fame score which comes naturally for Food/Science/Industry (and Money if you have cultures specced for it) and favored fame stars yield a lot more fame score especially later in the game.
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Sep 17, 2021 09:29
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The way math works, if you're not in a position to put the districts down immediately, say, everywhere in your empire, within the first few turns, Britain will still earn more science. France is playing catch-up and needs to either far surpass Britain's output or surpass it within only a few turns, or it won't equal the total science, even if it winds up with a higher number. Any advantage revolves around actually building France's districts. And if you're in a position to immediately build all that, or if the 10% science matters immediately to the same degree the science per territory would, you are already way out in front. This is why I can't see France as higher tier than Britain, and can't see Britain as low tier. France's advantages only really exist when you don't actually need them. Picking Britain will give you an enormous, immediate advantage, frequently enough to unfuck your science or gold if you hosed either up. In a single turn. Tldr; France will build on an existing lead, Britain can give you the lead. Put it this way: picking Britain will absolutely carry you through an entire era in two of the major resources on the first turn of the era, and you will never have to build a single emblematic district to do so. Their district sucks because they very literally do not actually need it. And then they have Redcoats, who, again, are motherfuckers.
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Sep 17, 2021 09:50
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Chamale posted:Based on my experience with Humankind difficulty, the Khmer and Turks are S, if you pick anything except those you are probably making a mistake. Soviets can pretty easily add 40-50 strength to every single unit. You can just conquer whole continents with one unit stack without losing any, sure Turks can have a lot of science but Soviet archers can one-shot tanks
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Sep 17, 2021 09:50
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Petition to rename "S-tier" to "Khmer-tier"
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Sep 17, 2021 09:59
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I'll make some saves to compare the British and French benefits.Pyromancer posted:Soviets can pretty easily add 40-50 strength to every single unit. You can just conquer whole continents with one unit stack without losing any, sure Turks can have a lot of science but Soviet archers can one-shot tanks This is true, although you still need to build grievances to fully conquer people. The Turks can end the game outright in 15 turns, the Soviets can win a war against everybody in 15 turns.
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Sep 17, 2021 10:02
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Carthage is a B if most of your provinces have coasts. The Cothon is like an actually balanced version of the Baray.
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Sep 17, 2021 10:04
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So based on thread recommendation, I bought the game. Game is indeed great! It's an evolution of Civ, with...pretty heavy balancing issues and some harsh RNG. It's got potential to be absolutely brilliant here. I love how the combat works and how your Civ evolves is really cool too. Why is there not an early restart option. Why is this always forgotten about?! Still trying to figure out the best way to grow my Civ. I actually found Olmec super useful at the start. That influence spike I found really helpful in order to drop down outposts and quickly turning them into cities. That being said, I think my priorities are wrong in general. Is it better to specialise cities or generalise them?
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Sep 17, 2021 10:15
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 21:12 |
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H13 posted:
I read this in the snarky narrator's voice. Finally close to finish one game since I "need" to do that to move to the next difficulty. Last 3 eras have been mostly mashing the end turn button and I'm itching to go back to the Neolithic again. Turns do seem to be a lot faster on my laptop than Civ 6 though.
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Sep 17, 2021 12:50
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