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Nomnom Cookie posted:it’s been a while since I paid attention to tether but has it ever been proven to operate in any way more complex than “you give us money, we give you a token, we spend the money on ourselves” Yes, they give out orders of magnitude more Tether than they get money for.
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Sep 14, 2021 00:03
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Tom Clancy is Dead posted:Yes, they give out orders of magnitude more Tether than they get money for. makes sense. if holding actual dollars doesn't happen, why should receiving a dollar before issuing a USDT need to happen either. but then why does anyone pay attention to it, sounds like something SAFEMOON level, not a respectable scam you can lose your shorts to without getting laughed at on bitcointalk
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Sep 14, 2021 00:07
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Nomnom Cookie posted:makes sense. if holding actual dollars doesn't happen, why should receiving a dollar before issuing a USDT need to happen either. but then why does anyone pay attention to it, sounds like something SAFEMOON level, not a respectable scam you can lose your shorts to without getting laughed at on bitcointalk well when it's backing/propping up one of the major bitcoin exchanges and helping to make number go up, bitcoiners will support anything
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Sep 14, 2021 00:18
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Nomnom Cookie posted:it’s been a while since I paid attention to tether but has it ever been proven to operate in any way more complex than “you give us money, we give you a token, we spend the money on ourselves” I'm not sure it's ever been shown that anyone actually gave them money
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Sep 14, 2021 00:36
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they have an attestation that at one specific point in time they had a very large amount of money in their account. there merely isn't much evidence that they held on to any money for longer than a day.
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Sep 14, 2021 01:33
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Plorkyeran posted:they have an attestation that at one specific point in time they had a very large amount of money in their account. there merely isn't much evidence that they held on to any money for longer than a day. iirc that's why they're in trouble rn, lying about cash balances to a bank or maybe regulators
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Sep 14, 2021 02:08
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i really hope we find out at some point just how many actual, real dollars tether holds our crimes - quarterly 2022.xlsx
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Sep 14, 2021 02:09
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Zamujasa posted:i really hope we find out at some point just how many actual, real dollars tether holds one would hope it would be calculable by a - (b - c) where a = number of tethers printed b = crypto "market cap" before tether is annihilated by regulators c = crypto "market cap" after tether vanishes like a fart in the wind but I am not dumb enough to ascribe that level of rationality to this market, nor optimistic enough to believe tether will ever actually get what they deserve
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Sep 14, 2021 02:29
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KnifeWrench posted:I'm not sure it's ever been shown that anyone actually gave them money isn't the tl;dr of tether basically 1) we print more tether every time someone gives us real fiat dollars 2) no we will not prove in any way that someone actually gave us the dollars 3) every printed tether is backed by real fiat dollars* * the dollars can actually be random pieces of paper that we claim are worth as much as dollars
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Sep 14, 2021 09:29
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that blog by an investor who bought millions of dollars of bitcoin then took a closer look at tether and ran a thousand miles has some interesting bits about what the printed tether is being used for https://crypto-anonymous-2021.medium.com/?p=f8dcf78a64d3 quote:Talking to Bob changed my perspective on Tether. I no longer viewed Tether as a source of excessive risk. I now viewed it as a highly probable fraud. print tether, give it away in "promotions" to get it into circulation because nobody is actually buying it, probably getting cents on the dollar from the shady exchanges that buy it from you Chalks fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 10:07
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Chalks posted:print tether, give it away in "promotions" to get it into circulation because nobody is actually buying it, probably getting cents on the dollar from the shady exchanges that buy it from you i actually assumed it to be far simpler 1) tether is magicked into existence by tether inc 2) this tether is then given to bitfinex or whatever exchange 3) the exchange uses tether to buy bitcoin to-from its own wallets, propping up the price - since nobody has any insight into the internal trades the exchanges to, then nobody can tell if this wash trading is happening or not also wasn't there this thing that some exchanges only deal in crypto anyway, so in order to trade there you need to exchange your usd to usdt in order to be able to buy and sell. this means that anyone willing to trade there necessarily has to touch tether or any other accepted "stablecoin" really
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Sep 14, 2021 12:43
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definitely, if you've printed billions of tethers, a few hundreds given away is sort of ancillary. open market manipulation is much easier when you're both broker, exchange, and de facto central banker for the crypto "economy."
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Sep 14, 2021 13:15
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Chalks posted:that blog by an investor who bought millions of dollars of bitcoin then took a closer look at tether and ran a thousand miles has some interesting bits about what the printed tether is being used for see i would have done the second thing before sinking millions of dollars into it, but that's why i'm not an investor i guess
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Sep 14, 2021 14:19
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Chalks posted:that blog by an investor who bought millions of dollars of bitcoin then took a closer look at tether and ran a thousand miles has some interesting bits about what the printed tether is being used for this seems like the most obvious fraud ever! how are they not getting shut down
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Sep 14, 2021 15:51
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This "bitcoin" business is getting so ridiculous lately that even the traditionally-obtuse New York Times is running (good!) op-eds about how ridiculous it is https://twitter.com/BCAppelbaum/status/1437773005430697993 Plorkyeran posted:they have an attestation that at one specific point in time they had a very large amount of money in their account. there merely isn't much evidence that they held on to any money for longer than a day. Penisface posted:i actually assumed it to be far simpler Penisface posted:also wasn't there this thing that some exchanges only deal in crypto anyway, so in order to trade there you need to exchange your usd to usdt in order to be able to buy and sell. this means that anyone willing to trade there necessarily has to touch tether or any other accepted "stablecoin" really The entire reason for USDT's existence is to evade KYC/AML regulations. The exchanges need Tether because they're frozen out of the traditional banking system and need a wildcat bank to issue them fake-dollars that will let them pretend that they're still doing business in "dollars". This is why folks should be wary of getting drawn into bad-faith arguments over Tether's reserves - it doesn't even matter whether their reserves are good or bad, that's besides the point.
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Sep 14, 2021 15:51
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i can't read the actual article because paywall but those tweets sure do make it sound like his biggest complaint is that they're not doing libertarianism correctly, so i'm not sure i agree with you on the whole "good op-ed" bit
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Sep 14, 2021 15:54
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a.p. dent posted:this seems like the most obvious fraud ever! how are they not getting shut down White-collar criminal prosecutions move at a snail's pace, if they even move at all, unless people actually get hit in the wallet - and big numbers of people aren't actually going to get hit in the wallet until the scheme implodes. Jurisdiction over USDT/Tether is fuzzy: they claim they operate outside of the United States and don't have any American customers. (Which is a lie, and New York State went after them because they did business in NY - but they have less power than the feds and found it easier to settle with Tether after Tether agreed not to touch New York citizens ever.) Cryptocurrencies and related tokens are still somewhat new and there's been a lot of ink and pixels spilled by people trying to declare that they're not commodities or securities and thus the feds should leave them alone. (Which is bullshit in Tether's case, I think it's substantively a digital bearer bond being publicly traded on unregistered exchanges). So the SEC or CFTC or any other agency is gonna have to put some effort into arguing that these are in their purview, and mustering up that effort is a slow process in normal times unless someone's been seriously hurt already. Also, these aren't normal times - we're fresh off a 4-year run where the federal government was run by the type of people who are more likely to run their own crypto scam than to push the money-cops to put the brakes on crypto scams.
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Sep 14, 2021 16:04
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that all makes sense, thanks for the info a friend was trying to convince me that jp morgan is doing "really interesting stuff" with blockchain tech, so i went to check it out. maybe already posted in this thread but wow, this is incredibly stupid even by bitcoin standards https://www.reuters.com/article/us-jpmorgan-blockchain-space-idUSKBN2AO1GL quote:JPMorgan Chase & Co has recently tested blockchain payments between satellites orbiting the earth, executives at the bank told Reuters, showing that digital devices could use the technology behind virtual currencies for transactions. totally, man. that's what "decentralised" means - far away spatially. maybe we could make things even MORE decentralized by doing payments to mars
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Sep 14, 2021 16:20
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uggggg i'd gone months without hearing about or thinking of the I N T N E I G O * S F H R T N E T
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Sep 14, 2021 16:30
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Shame Boy posted:i can't read the actual article because paywall but those tweets sure do make it sound like his biggest complaint is that they're not doing libertarianism correctly, so i'm not sure i agree with you on the whole "good op-ed" bit For what it's worth, the article came right up for me and I'm definitely not a NYT subscriber, maybe try the private window trick? That said, you probably don't need to read the whole thing, it's probably not going to tell you anything new. (But maybe you should before declaring that I'm wrong and actually it's bad?) I just reread it and if he is one of those libertarians, then I think that's mostly incidental to his post, which is just a decent summary of some of the reasons why bitcoin is stupid. I don't think it covers much new territory for regular readers of this thread, but IMO it is good that a "bitcoin is stupid and not the answer to anything" message is getting out to the lame-o NYT subscribers who haven't already read divabot's compendium of anti-bitcoin forums posts e: personally I think his "cosplay libertarians" line is good because bitcoin is so fantastically stupid that it doesn't actually solve any of the (fake) problems that libertarians obsess over, but so many "libertarians" love it anyway because it has the same appeal to the gently caress-you-got-mine mindset e2: added the middle quote, which I think suggests this dude is probably not the typical brain-diseased libertarian NYT posted:Bitcoin, for the uninitiated, is a technology that purports to solve a host of problems with old-fashioned national currencies. It is designed to safeguard wealth against the depredations of inflation, public authorities and financial intermediaries. NYT posted:The rigidity of Bitcoin’s design also makes it dangerously impractical as a replacement for national currencies. It is part of a long tradition of trying to prevent politicians from making bad economic policy decisions by preventing them from making any decisions. The gold standard is an older example of this disastrous concept. NYT posted:But until this month, I wasn’t all that worried about Bitcoin. The current frenzy is sometimes compared to other famous bubbles, like the Dutch tulip craze of the 17th century. One key commonality is that both involve a relatively small group of investors with money to burn. Most Dutch didn’t buy tulips; most Americans don’t own Bitcoin. Blotto_Otter fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 16:36
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Blotto_Otter posted:I just reread it and if he is one of those libertarians, then I think that's mostly incidental to his post, which is just a decent summary of some of the reasons why bitcoin is stupid. I don't think it covers much new territory for regular readers of this thread, but IMO it is good that a "bitcoin is stupid and not the answer to anything" message is getting out to the lame-o NYT subscribers who haven't already read divabot's compendium of anti-bitcoin forums posts That was my takeaway as well. We've heard it all before, but a lot of people haven't, and this is going to reach some of them.
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Sep 14, 2021 16:53
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step 1: make a currency so that satellites can send money to each other step 2: make intelligent satellites that need to send money to each other
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Sep 14, 2021 17:07
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my satellite lost all its money in a ponzi scheme, it can't do anything any more
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Sep 14, 2021 17:25
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Blotto_Otter posted:For what it's worth, the article came right up for me and I'm definitely not a NYT subscriber, maybe try the private window trick? That said, you probably don't need to read the whole thing, it's probably not going to tell you anything new. (But maybe you should before declaring that I'm wrong and actually it's bad?) i wasn't really declaring you were wrong, just that it seemed real suspect. sorry if it came off hostile or something, i didn't mean anything like that  with the context you provided it seems a lot less suspect fwiw
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Sep 14, 2021 17:30
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a.p. dent posted:
i really like that the takeaway from "they made satellites use bitcoin" is apparently "digital devices could use it" finally, i can get rid of my analog bitcoin wallet
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Sep 14, 2021 17:33
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before i even read the rest of the article, i thought "i bet they just bought a tiny slice of time on a timesharing satellite, ran a single transaction and then started on the press release" and quote:To run the space experiment, the bank’s blockchain team did not send its own satellites into space, but worked with Danish company GOMspace, which allows third parties to run software on its satellites. yyyep e: lmao god there's so much good poo poo in that article quote:Back on earth, examples of IoT payments that could become a reality sooner include a smart fridge ordering and paying for milk on an ecommerce site, or a self-driving car paying for gas Farooq said. y'know you can get a fridge that does that right now if you're that much of an idiot. that's a thing you can go out and buy, and it doesn't even need a blockchain! quote:Blockchain, which first emerged as the software underpinning cryptocurrencies, is a shared digital ledger of transactions. Financial companies have invested millions of dollars to find uses for the technology hoping it can reduce costs and simplify more complex IT processes, such as securities settlement or international payments. we've invested millions of dollars trying to find a nail in need of this hammer but as of now all we have are screws. we're really hopeful that we might find a single actual use some time in the next decade with more investment. Shame Boy fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 17:35
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quote:JPMorgan has been one of the most active banks in blockchain, announcing it had created its own distributed ledger called Quorum in 2016, which was sold to blockchain company Consensys last year. The bank also developed a digital coin called JPM Coin and in 2020 created Onyx. so close to generating revenue! look we just need a few more tens of millions of dollars and we'll be able to find that golden egg-laying goose, we swear!
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Sep 14, 2021 17:44
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to be fair running a buttcoin on a satellite is as close to the moon as it'll ever get
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Sep 14, 2021 17:44
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my wallet wont work without a clear view of the southern horizon and a phased antenna array
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Sep 14, 2021 17:47
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quote:The Solana blockchain has come to a halt due to a bug, and last txn was an hour ago. After the bug, team shut the network down themselves. 100% centralised It's even called SOL.
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Sep 14, 2021 17:52
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Zamujasa posted:to be fair running a buttcoin on a satellite is as close to the moon as it'll ever get
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Sep 14, 2021 17:54
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KnifeWrench posted:one would hope it would be calculable by let me make a small prediction. if tether goes down (big if), the price of bitcoin will actually rise, because it will be so much harder to buy (until the next stablescam steps in anyway). remember, everything is good for bitcoin!
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Sep 14, 2021 18:02
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gschmidl posted:It's even called SOL. the sound I made is called a lol
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Sep 14, 2021 18:02
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Blotto_Otter posted:This "bitcoin" business is getting so ridiculous lately that even the traditionally-obtuse New York Times is running (good!) op-eds about how ridiculous it is From wiki: While, according to its 2021 settlement with the New York Attorney General Letitia James, "Tether represents to users that any holder of tethers can redeem them from Tether the company at the rate of one tether for one U.S. dollar,"[5] Tether Limited as of 2017 stated that owners of tethers have no contractual right, other legal claims, or guarantee that tethers will or can be redeemed or exchanged for dollars.[6] Lol
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Sep 14, 2021 18:03
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Blotto_Otter posted:White-collar criminal prosecutions move at a snail's pace, if they even move at all, unless people actually get hit in the wallet - and big numbers of people aren't actually going to get hit in the wallet until the scheme implodes. Also when it comes to federal prosecutions they have a relatively large budget, and contract out doc review to a pretty sizable team of contractors. Personally familiar with prosecutions where doc review itself took like 2 yrs by itself or more
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Sep 14, 2021 18:07
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Shame Boy posted:so close to generating revenue! look we just need a few more tens of millions of dollars and we'll be able to find that golden egg-laying goose, we swear! and that's revenue. they're not even bringing in any money, much less a number greater than it takes to bring in, let alone enough to pay off the investment in a timely manner.
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Sep 14, 2021 18:21
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Shageletic posted:Also when it comes to federal prosecutions they have a relatively large budget, and contract out doc review to a pretty sizable team of contractors. Personally familiar with prosecutions where doc review itself took like 2 yrs by itself or more the wheels of justice grind slowly, but they do grind
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Sep 14, 2021 18:23
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reminder that Theranos was founded in 2003, was exposed as fraud in 2015, and only now in 2021 is going to trial. and people were questioning the "tech" behind Theranos from the start.
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Sep 14, 2021 18:48
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kw0134 posted:reminder that Theranos was founded in 2003, was exposed as fraud in 2015, and only now in 2021 is going to trial. and people were questioning the "tech" behind Theranos from the start. I actually interviewed there in 2012, got an incredibly weird vibe, and totally forgot about it until, like, halfway through the meltdown
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Sep 14, 2021 19:15
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kw0134 posted:reminder that Theranos was founded in 2003, was exposed as fraud in 2015, and only now in 2021 is going to trial. and people were questioning the "tech" behind Theranos from the start. Personally surprised this wasn't settled before trial.
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Sep 14, 2021 19:19
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