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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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Killer robot posted:You missed the part in your hypothetical where the public now associates compulsory vaccination with piles of dead kids. Which is what we're going to end up with now... I'll stop on this topic since I dont want to get thread banned again. Thank you for explaining that the main issue was the late initiation of trials and also the issues with pediatric testing. 3/5ths of a 9/11 today. wisconsingreg fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 23:46
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mod sassinator posted:What exactly is the rule being broken here? You are not allowed to get too upset while reading the thread? Help us understand what your thought process is here because that sounds completely biased and arbitrary to enforce. Last time Vasukhani was in the covid thread they got threadbanned for getting extremely aggressive posters. I'm not talking about rules being broken, I just want to be sure people in the thread can coexist. Sorry if it came across as a bit heavy handed. Vasukhani posted:Which is what we're going to end up with now... You know what, I'm sorry for calling you out like that, but you don't have PMs and I didn't want to assume you wanted them, because some people prefer not to have them as a way to prevent harassment. I didn't mean to make it sound like a threat or anything like that, or to imply that you are on thin ice. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 23:46
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Don't think this has been posted yet: This is great news for my toddlers. It'll be such a relief to have everyone in my family vaxxed.
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Sep 14, 2021 23:46
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Vasukhani posted:Which is what we're going to end up with now... Rsv is currently more an an issue then covid on kids, source main hospital in the area has been dealing with record number of rsv in kids and full, compared to minimal pediatrics getting covid needing hospitalization.
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Sep 14, 2021 23:48
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Mellow Seas posted:reading the OP and reading UCS Hellmaker's great post about the physiological effects of Covid-19 I can't find the post you're referencing about the physiological effects, would you mind quote-linking it please? I'd like to check it out too. I'm sorry for your loss as well, addiction is a gently caress.
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Sep 14, 2021 23:51
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:This is great news for my toddlers. It'll be such a relief to have everyone in my family vaxxed. Same I have a 2 year old and everyone seems very complacent about them contracting covid.
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Sep 14, 2021 23:51
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The trials weren't done in parallel is one reason it's been later. IIRC phase 1 started around when the trial for 12-15s was wrapping up, but phase 3 didn't kick off until summer. Also there was cause to be somewhat cautious and not just slam in adult doses into under 5s. Kids immune systems don't exactly respond the same way as adults, myocarditis incidence looked like it trended up as age decreased, and something spooked Pfizer in the phase 1 trials for under 11s seeing as for 6 months to 5 years the dose they settled on for phase 2/3 was a third of the lowest dose they tried in phase 1 for kids. But with all that in mind yeah they definitely should have started phase 1 for under 12s back when they started phase 1 for 12-15s. They'd be wrapped up and giving shots by now if so.
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Sep 14, 2021 23:53
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Professor Beetus posted:You know what, I'm sorry for calling you out like that, but you don't have PMs and I didn't want to assume you wanted them, because some people prefer not to have them as a way to prevent harassment. I didn't mean to make it sound like a threat or anything like that, or to imply that you are on thin ice. It's okay! I was pretty mad the first time I was in this thread because of the megadeath. But I understand you just don't want it to become a shithole thread like it can when people start to dehumanize themselves and face the bloodshed of all of this. I won't promise to post better but I'll try to be less mad.
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Sep 14, 2021 23:55
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Tomberforce posted:Same I have a 2 year old and everyone seems very complacent about them contracting covid. And even without it affecting them, the fact that they can spread the drat thing, and definitely will, because with all the love in the world children are sticky little disease spreaders, is reason enough to get them vaccinated. The idea that we shouldn't is insane.
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Sep 14, 2021 23:55
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Vasukhani posted:It's okay! I was pretty mad the first time I was in this thread because of the megadeath. But I understand you just don't want it to become a shithole thread like it can when people start to dehumanize themselves and face the bloodshed of all of this. I won't promise to post better but I'll try to be less mad.  Pet tax for the page:  Cat's a big My Pillow fan, what can I say V Check your pms yo V Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Sep 15, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 23:59
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Professor Beetus posted:
Hey Beetus while you're here, can you do gangtags for OP contributors? Or is it just avs/plat?
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Sep 15, 2021 00:03
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What I've been kind of curious of as someone dumber than poo poo is that we've got two vaccines approved and being administered into kids between 3-12, Sinovac which is inactivated virus, and Soberana-2 which is "conjugate" whatever that means. Is the problem that kids don't respond well specifically to mRNA type vaccines? If so, should our research be going into J&J or even importing/fast tracking one of these types? Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any data on Sputnik-V on kids, which would be interesting because the first shot in that series is the same adenovirus vector as J&J uses IIRC Unfortunately I think this all is swept aside by vaccines for kids just not really being prioritized as a spread prevention strategy, if not in the medical research community, then in the actual movers and shakers at large. A flu+COVID+RSV virus like they've been talking about would indeed be very nice.
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Sep 15, 2021 00:04
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Platystemon posted:I don’t have any personal doubt that it would easily surpass unfitted surgical masks at stopping virus‐containing respiratory viruses, but, well, we don’t have any actual data saying it does. Any use of EHMRs with exhaust valves for covid source control is based on speculation.
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Sep 15, 2021 00:08
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UCS Hellmaker posted:During any trials on kids is a massive undertaking, any research on pediatrics and pregnant woman is. Doing it in a rushed slapdash manner can and will cause more issues then the current antivax ferver, ie people comparing it to the things mengala did in the 1940s. Like seriously don't spout bullshit when you don't understand the actual things involved with human trials and the sheer effort required to even begin pediatric tests. I am quoting a letter from the American Association of Pediatrics: quote:“This research takes time. If this does not begin soon, it will be less likely a vaccine will be available for children before the next school year,” Dr. Maldonado said. “We know that children can be infected with COVID-19 and can transmit it to others. To reduce the spread of this virus and control the pandemic as well as for their own safety, it’s crucial that children be included in the national vaccination program, and that vaccines are made available to children as soon as possible.” If you think their position is "bullshit" and "slapdash", 1. take it up with them 2. I would love to see the reasoning you have that gives your opinion more weight than the highest association of pediatric doctors in the country.
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Sep 15, 2021 00:12
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BMJ feature is Just Asking Questions about U.S. vaccine policy. Maybe the CHUDs who say “I don’t need your vaccine. I’ve already had the virus” have a point. (ed. note:  )quote:“If natural immunity is strongly protective, as the evidence to date suggests it is, then vaccinating people who have had covid-19 would seem to offer nothing or very little to benefit, logically leaving only harms—both the harms we already know about as well as those still unknown,” says Christine Stabell Benn, vaccinologist and professor in global health at the University of Southern Denmark. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
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Sep 15, 2021 00:40
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Well gently caress. Just got the news from my mom in our family group chat between me, her, and my sisters. Our older (60s) cousin and her husband both died of Covid. He died last week and she died just a little bit ago. Both got the delta variant, both were unvaccinated. That cousin was one of the sweetest and kindest people I knew, always willing to jump and lend a hand if someone needed it, and now they're both dead because they didn't get a drat shot. What a senseless and unnecessary waste. This was in Georgia by the way.
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Sep 15, 2021 00:43
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That's really sad, I'm sorry. The death is so senseless, so unnecessary.
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Sep 15, 2021 01:00
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mod sassinator posted:I am quoting a letter from the American Association of Pediatrics: The FDA you dumb gently caress the same people that stop the doctors associations from giving out things like thalidomide in the US without proper testing. There is a reason that anything pediatric related is heavily scrutinized, and the FDA will gladly step in and shut down any testing that is done in a rough shod manner and doesn't abide by the protocols required. because we have evidence of what happens when a country just lets things happen with little oversight But hey, I don't know poo poo but I know more then you and how testing works because its something we get taught and they slam into you that anything pediatric related takes an insane amounts of paperwork and slamming through an emergency action isn't possible because we don't want to repeat Mengele comparisons because of fear.
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Sep 15, 2021 01:23
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UCS Hellmaker posted:The FDA you dumb gently caress the same people that stop the doctors associations from giving out things like thalidomide in the US without proper testing. There is a reason that anything pediatric related is heavily scrutinized, and the FDA will gladly step in and shut down any testing that is done in a rough shod manner and doesn't abide by the protocols required. because we have evidence of what happens when a country just lets things happen with little oversight But hey, I don't know poo poo but I know more then you and how testing works because its something we get taught and they slam into you that anything pediatric related takes an insane amounts of paperwork and slamming through an emergency action isn't possible because we don't want to repeat Mengele comparisons because of fear. I know what you're going through and I know the point you are trying to make, but consider stepping away from the thread for a moment. I can give you a probe if you want to remove the temptation; and that's a genuine offer and not a threat.
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Sep 15, 2021 01:30
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Hellmaker's correct on the facts when it comes to pediatric trials. As it stands with the EUAs and departures already in force (for globally administered vaccines, mind, the most high-scrutiny category there is), the FDA's situation is impossibly fraught and the organization's under unimaginable pressure.
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Sep 15, 2021 01:47
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I'm not arguing the trials are being run badly though, it's that they're being run far too late. Read the AAP letter from November last year that I linked, it explicitly says in the quote I pulled that unless we act now there is a major risk child vaccines will not be approved in time for the next school year. They never implied or said the trials should be compromised or reduced in quality in some way they simply said we need to start them now. The people in power took this warning, ignored it, and waited until March to get the trials rolling. And surprise surprise we are now nearly two months into the school year with no child vaccines available or ready any time soon, exactly as the AAP warned. There have been about 60-80 child deaths in the last month alone as school infections have soared to 250k kids a week or more. Almost certainly some of those kids would still be alive had the vaccines been approved and available by now, as the AAP had cried about 10 months ago. There is a body count of children for the inaction on child vaccines and it is growing by the day.
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Sep 15, 2021 02:06
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Epic High Five posted:What I've been kind of curious of as someone dumber than poo poo is that we've got two vaccines approved and being administered into kids between 3-12, Sinovac which is inactivated virus, and Soberana-2 which is "conjugate" whatever that means. Is the problem that kids don't respond well specifically to mRNA type vaccines? If so, should our research be going into J&J or even importing/fast tracking one of these types? Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any data on Sputnik-V on kids, which would be interesting because the first shot in that series is the same adenovirus vector as J&J uses IIRC I don't think there's any evidence that mRNA vaccines wouldn't work in children. I can't think of any reason why not. Sinovac and Soberana were developed outside the US so I assume there's more regulatory hurdles for the FDA to accept Russian and Cuban trial data. As has been mentioned by several posters, anything involving pediatrics involves extra extra layers of regulation and scrutiny.
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Sep 15, 2021 02:09
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Professor Beetus posted:As to misinformation, it's not an official rule or anything but I will absolutely nuke poo poo like someone coming in pushing ivermectin or basequin or whatever the next bullshit is. Is *anyone* on SA endorsing ivermectin non-sarcastically?
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Sep 15, 2021 02:19
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mod sassinator posted:I'm not arguing the trials are being run badly though, it's that they're being run far too late. Read the AAP letter from November last year that I linked, it explicitly says in the quote I pulled that unless we act now there is a major risk child vaccines will not be approved in time for the next school year. They never implied or said the trials should be compromised or reduced in quality in some way they simply said we need to start them now. The people in power took this warning, ignored it, and waited until March to get the trials rolling. And surprise surprise we are now nearly two months into the school year with no child vaccines available or ready any time soon, exactly as the AAP warned. While the Association of Pediatrics is for sure a relevant authority, I do think this is a little bit of a case of competing incentives. The Association is primarily concerned with preventing infection and severe outcomes of COVID in children (which of course is critically important and everyone is concerned with that in some way). I'm sure that they don't want horrible side effects, but their experience is pretty much entirely with medicines that don't have those sorts of side effects, because they've been cleared by the FDA. The FDA is primarily concerned with making sure things are safe. In a vacuum, of course they don't want kids to die, but their entire job as it relates to treatments is making sure they're safe. On the matter of "is it safe to start trials / roll this out to the population", they have *way* more authority than the Association of Pediatrics, because they spend way more time thinking about safety of treatments vs. a doctor's association.
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Sep 15, 2021 02:22
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HonorableTB posted:Hey Beetus while you're here, can you do gangtags for OP contributors? Or is it just avs/plat? BTW, I realize that I'm 18 months too late, but aren't the "Super Spreaders" and "Yes I Want Coronavirus" gangtags kinda inappropriate for this thread?
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Sep 15, 2021 02:23
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Gynovore posted:Is *anyone* on SA endorsing ivermectin non-sarcastically? I was just using it as an example because it's incredibly obvious and would clearly be not ok in this thread. Misinfo isn't going to be tolerated and if you think anything posted in the op or thread is misinfo please let me know or report it.
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Sep 15, 2021 02:49
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Gynovore posted:BTW, I realize that I'm 18 months too late, but aren't the "Super Spreaders" and "Yes I Want Coronavirus" gangtags kinda inappropriate for this thread? I mean this in good faith: you get that they're jokes, yes?
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Sep 15, 2021 02:54
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HonorableTB posted:I can't find the post you're referencing about the physiological effects, would you mind quote-linking it please? I'd like to check it out too. I'm sorry for your loss as well, addiction is a gently caress. From the first page: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3979298&perpage=40&noseen=1#post517708866 I’m really sorry to hear about your cousin and her husband. 
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Sep 15, 2021 02:56
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Potato Salad posted:I mean this in good faith: you get that they're jokes, yes? I realize that, but that's not carte blanche.
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Sep 15, 2021 02:59
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Idk, the absurdity of "Yes I want covid" *click* is a great inside joke aimed at the absurdity of the idea that we're living in an age where online boomers might as well be signing up for severe respiratory disease like it was a popup scam It's like, the exact opposite of antivaxx sentiment. it's a solidarity statement Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Sep 15, 2021 |
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Sep 15, 2021 03:07
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It's a joke because it was a button you could click on that was meant to say yes I want coronavirus information but the button was sized incorrectly and cut off the information part edit: kinda like this 
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Sep 15, 2021 03:25
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I realize it's not quite the SA that produced tribute.wmv but I can't really ban a gang tag from the thread. I also can't justify banning gallows humor. If you think something really crosses the line, feel free to speak up, but I think in this case it was explained sufficiently well.
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Sep 15, 2021 03:45
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If you want black humor I can go all out and show people exactly why healthcare is burnt out. Also why the one patient got nicknamed hot dog. edit: for less of a shitpost  This is what covid can do, It is an art line gas. 74% spo2 is absolutely dangerous levels and leads to numerous pathological effects, the least of which is your brain and heart start getting angry. But low O2 leads to clotting, and clotting is bad. :edit 2 pet tax and every day I go to work 
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Sep 15, 2021 03:57
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Gynovore posted:BTW, I realize that I'm 18 months too late, but aren't the "Super Spreaders" and "Yes I Want Coronavirus" gangtags kinda inappropriate for this thread? We allow racist, homophobic, and ableist slurs in parts of the SA forums, why wouldn't we allow gallows humor?
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Sep 15, 2021 04:40
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empty whippet box posted:We allow racist, homophobic, and ableist slurs in parts of the SA forums, why wouldn't we allow gallows humor? gently caress off with this, we don't need to drag other parts of the site to dnd in an attempt to cause drama. Take it to qcs or pm an admin if you want to talk to a brick wall
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Sep 15, 2021 05:11
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I get the extra caution before starting clinical trials on kids, what I don't get is the mindboggling contrast between that and the blasé attitude almost our whole society has toward exposing kids to covid-19 because "eh kids can't get it" We have to be ultra careful that the mRNA we're injecting into them doesn't cause some terrible reaction, okay sure yes fine, but then we're just sending them to school and letting them breathe in clouds of virus that infect their cells and force them to crank out all kinds of proteins that have never undergone clinical trials in humans at all E: not to like call you our or whatever, just I don't see how both these things can be true How are u posted:I definitely think it would have been nice to hold off in-person schooling for kids in age ranges ineligible for the vaccine, but like the whole of the voting public has been for opening schools. Democrats, Republicans, blue states, red states. There hasn't been some huge culture war over it, everybody seems to have wanted them open. How are u posted:We want to be careful with our kids. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Sep 15, 2021 |
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Sep 15, 2021 05:16
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UCS Hellmaker posted:gently caress off with this, we don't need to drag other parts of the site to dnd in an attempt to cause drama. Take it to qcs or pm an admin if you want to talk to a brick wall  I wasn't arguing about it man. It is what it is. We allow these types of humor here. Gangtags and avs laughing about covid are pretty tame in that context, is all I'm saying.
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Sep 15, 2021 05:16
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VitalSigns posted:I get the extra caution before starting clinical trials on kids, what I don't get is the mindboggling contrast between that and the blasé attitude almost our whole society has toward exposing kids to covid-19 because "eh kids can't get it" Absolutely this. I'm all for a slow and cautious approach to vaccinations for kids since the repercussions of side effects are so large in the short and long term, but the open-er-up attitude to schools is insane. I get that there's a lot of push from parents against continuing exclusively remote education and it's not just from antimaskers/antivaxxers, but it feels like previously reasonable people are throwing precautions out altogether and just acting like it's 2019 again. Also, gently caress it, I've lost people including my father and my aunt to this, and I'm still keeping with some gallows humor about all of it. Not the wishing actual people to die part or making light of those who do, but it's all too big and absurd not to get some mockery in where we can. The jokes I've seen in this thread and the previous are mostly hard to mistake for anything but.
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Sep 15, 2021 05:31
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Killer robot posted:Absolutely this. I'm all for a slow and cautious approach to vaccinations for kids since the repercussions of side effects are so large in the short and long term, but the open-er-up attitude to schools is insane. I get that there's a lot of push from parents against continuing exclusively remote education and it's not just from antimaskers/antivaxxers, but it feels like previously reasonable people are throwing precautions out altogether and just acting like it's 2019 again. It's because there are more things to consider regarding kids than, "COVID, yes/no." There's long term educational achievement, long term social development, the government sponsored daycare aspect, the monitoring of at risk kids, the providing of care to at risk kids... The outcomes of each of these must be weighed against the outcome of the others. Do we risk several hundred to several thousand kids dead of COVID to stave off creating the next generation of algorithm driven incels and Alt-Right pick up artists? Do we risk several thousand to tens of thousands of kids with some amount of Long COVID in order to bolster slipping educational achievement in the lower middle and poor kids while the upper middle and rich kids have basically gotten tutored remote private school? In the places where better mitigation methods are taking place - new ventilation systems, consistent testing, significant vaccine uptake in the general population (as kid infections likely mirror that of the general population) - are the places where these questions are being asked and likely the places where it could be reasonably safe. In the places where nobody gives a poo poo or who think COVID is a hoax or who are providing uhhhhhh heartgard or some poo poo to students (this hasn't happened to my knowledge), they're not going to listen to good ideas nor make those decisions, and these are the places where things are likely not safe. In my area, schools have been open for three weeks. The local religious school apparently isn't handling it well, but the public schools (with required weekly and with on-demand, free, testing) are doing fine, with the occasional group out on quarantine for a few days. Our COVID numbers are dropping from our plateau (which was about half our winter peak) all while this is happening. Schools can open safely for the overwhelming majority of students and their families (as we have a high vaccine uptake) in this situation - but that's not everybody's situation.
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HelloSailorSign posted:It's because there are more things to consider regarding kids than, "COVID, yes/no." I understand a lot of the non-insane arguments driving the push to reopen, but even in light of those a whole lot of places aren't using "better mitigation" methods and they're getting limited pushback even from people who should know better. That's the part I'm boggling at.
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