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Unsinkabear posted:Nice. Which switches do you have? I got the red switches. They feel good and nice and smooth for gaming. I think they are TTC and not Gateron but I haven't checked and honestly can't tell much difference between Gateron reds I've had in the past.
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Sep 15, 2021 01:54
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puppy party posted:I got the red switches. They feel good and nice and smooth for gaming. I think they are TTC and not Gateron but I haven't checked and honestly can't tell much difference between Gateron reds I've had in the past. Thanks, that's good to know. I'm torn between red and brown. I haven't done enough typing on either to know if I prefer linear or tactile, and since my last keyboard was kind of in-between that doesn't help much either. I just know I don't want blue, lol. Unless it's those soft raindrop bottom-outs, I don't want a keyboard that deliberately makes extra noise. I've noticed most people who game use reds, is there something about tactile that makes it feel worse for gaming, or are you guys legitimately so good that the extra 0.02 milliseconds it takes for the switch to slide over that bump really makes a difference in the response time? Because I know I'm not. 
Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Sep 15, 2021 |
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Sep 15, 2021 02:03
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Unsinkabear posted:Thanks, that's good to know. I'm torn between red and brown. I haven't done enough typing on either to know if I prefer linear or tactile, and since my last keyboard was kind of in-between that doesn't help much either. I just know I don't want blue, lol. Unless it's those soft raindrop bottom-outs, I don't want a keyboard that deliberately makes extra noise. IMO try red over brown. The tactile bump in Browns is usually so light you barely feel it.
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Sep 15, 2021 02:24
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What's the closest 65% equivalent to a GMMK Pro? Tofu65? I love my GMMK Pro so much, I've decided that I want to replace my Anne Pro 2 and Ducky 3 with something that is hot swappable, has an aluminum chassis, and is gasket mounted. I'm afraid I may have to venture into the world of GBs if I want anything suitable. That, or wait for RAMA to open up preorders on a future release. Corb3t fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Sep 16, 2021 |
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Sep 16, 2021 14:37
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Gay Retard posted:What's the closest 65% equivalent to a GMMK Pro? Tofu65? This would be my top recommendation: https://divinikey.com/products/kbdfans-kbd67-v3-gasket-mount-aluminum-case?variant=39388259254337 You'll also have to get a plate and PCB which should be available there, too.
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Sep 16, 2021 15:52
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Speaking of the GMMK Pro, I was tempted by the beautiful volume knob (in spite of the  brand name) so I went through their builder... without selecting anything fancy, I ended up with a completed board that cost $274. Would I be able to save anything by getting equivalent switches and keycaps elsewhere and assembling it myself? What makes this board worth so much money even with just basic keycaps and Gateron reds on it, when compared to something like an $85 RK84 that has a similar feature set? And there are people in the reviews calling this "entry level," lmao.
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Sep 16, 2021 22:22
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Unsinkabear posted:Speaking of the GMMK Pro, I was tempted by the beautiful volume knob (in spite of the The GMMK Pro and the RK84 serve two pretty different markets and, aside from having the same number of keys and being hotswap, are two very different boards. When someone calls the GMMK Pro an "entry level" board, they mean it's entry level for the hobby. THis is because the GMMK Pro has many of the features that are found in hobby-level boards, such as: All aluminum construction (it's MUCH heavier than any keyboard you'll likely find at Best Buy, Microcenter, etc.), gasket mounting system, and the ability to easily (compared to a board like the RK84) disassemble the whole board, swap out the plates, replace the stabilizers, change or remove the gaskets, add or remove foam, etc. The GMMK Pro has these features that you really only see in $300+ hobby-level boards, which puts it in an entirely different class from something like the RK84. And yes, you can find much more affordable keycaps and switches than what Glorious offers when you build the board from them, though their switches and lube service (aside from their stabs) are pretty good.
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Sep 17, 2021 00:49
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Gearman posted:The GMMK Pro and the RK84 serve two pretty different markets and, aside from having the same number of keys and being hotswap, are two very different boards. When someone calls the GMMK Pro an "entry level" board, they mean it's entry level for the hobby. THis is because the GMMK Pro has many of the features that are found in hobby-level boards, such as: All aluminum construction (it's MUCH heavier than any keyboard you'll likely find at Best Buy, Microcenter, etc.), gasket mounting system, and the ability to easily (compared to a board like the RK84) disassemble the whole board, swap out the plates, replace the stabilizers, change or remove the gaskets, add or remove foam, etc. The GMMK Pro has these features that you really only see in $300+ hobby-level boards, which puts it in an entirely different class from something like the RK84. Got it, that makes sense. Thanks for breaking it down. What does the bit about gasket mounting mean? More dumb questions: Royal Kludge suggested some packs of extra switch types as an add-on item, and the only non-clicky choice is the linear Kailh Pro Burgundy. I only found one comment about them in the entire thread history, which was someone being dissatisfied that the spring was heavy at the bottom. But only being heavy at the bottom seems like a good thing if you want it easy to actuate but don't like hand fatigue/pain from bottoming out? So I think maybe I don't understand that either. Has anybody used these enough to comment? Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 00:50
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Unsinkabear posted:Got it, that makes sense. Thanks for breaking it down. What does the bit about gasket mounting mean? The RK84 can come with red switches. I'd order that model first and see how you like them. If you don't like them, order a switch tester and try to find what you like. Kailth Pro Burgandy are probably be fine but this hobby is all preferences. IMO take the plunge and order something like red, brown, or blue switches. Figure out what you like and then branch out from there.
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Sep 17, 2021 01:27
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mariooncrack posted:The RK84 can come with red switches. I'd order that model first and see how you like them. If you don't like them, order a switch tester and try to find what you like. Kailth Pro Burgandy are probably be fine but this hobby is all preferences. IMO take the plunge and order something like red, brown, or blue switches. Figure out what you like and then branch out from there. My girlfriend just got a keyboard with reds, so at this point I'm definitely going with some kind of tactile switch for mine so we can trade off and see which we each prefer (I'll let you know when you're inevitably right and I like the reds more). I just thought it might be interesting to grab a different kind of linear option to play with as well, since hers is a basic board from EVGA that I think uses regular old gat reds iirc.
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Sep 17, 2021 01:47
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If anyone was interested in a KBD67 Lite, they’re in stock on Divinikey. Looks like Bluetooth version only though.
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Sep 17, 2021 19:25
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I'm finding the world of mechanical vs. optical switches kind of confusing. What's the difference between Gateron mechanical yellow and Gateron optical yellow? It seems like the optical ones have a much lower actuation force than the mechanical ones but nothing I can find can fully confirm that. I'm hoping to buy a prebuilt keyboard that feels pretty good out of the box (because I am lazy and staring down the barrel of lubing 100 keys having never done it before feels very daunting) and I really like the 100-key 96% layout. I'm looking at either an Epomaker GK96s or SK96s, but one has mechanical and the other has optical and I have no idea what the practical difference is. Harrow fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Sep 21, 2021 |
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Sep 21, 2021 14:51
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I don't know what's going on with Gat Yellows. Keychron's website has a force curve that clearly shows 50g of actuation and they mention it as 50g actuation. But there also exists other Gat Yellow force curves that clearly show it with 37g of actuation. (Input Club for a specific Gat Yellow variation) Couldn't find much info on optical yellows, sites that sell Gat optical yellow lists the actuation force as 35g. Probably best to email the vendor and ask which actual switch and which variaton they're putting on the keyboard. Optical switches may be a tiny bit smoother because the lack of a metal spring leaf, but you also have less options if you ever want to swap out switches. For that reason, I'd get a mechanical hotswap board so you can swap to other more available non-optical switches.
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Sep 21, 2021 15:56
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Harrow posted:I'm finding the world of mechanical vs. optical switches kind of confusing. Here’s my experience with Gateron Optical Yellows that I use on a HK61. They’re very light and also have an overall shorter “throw”. You’ll bottom out fast on them and they actuate quickly too. In my opinion, the opticals are easier to lube since there’s no leaf and bump to worry about. I lubed and filmed my yellow opticals and it turned out great, but I realized I don’t like them on such a small board, so I am thinking of getting some more to outfit a 65% keyboard down the line. It also just comes down to overall feel - standard mechanical switches feel more “natural” compared to a “digital” feeling of the optical switches. Hope this helps! Also, I love the GK96 - if you’re going to go down the route of lubing it, just do it immediately before you start using the board. I waited and when I decided to get down to it, it took me about a week and a half because it was hassle to do it while dealing with work and home life. The board sat on my desk in pieces looking like a mechanical keyboard murder scene.
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Sep 21, 2021 18:49
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I wonder if that's the difference between the Gateron mechanical and optical yellows? The mechanical ones have the 50g actuation force while the optical ones have 35g? Maybe. I can't really tell. I've been using Cherry MX Reds for a while and I like them well enough, but I don't think I'd want to go lighter than that. Slightly heavier than MX Reds, but not as heavy as MX Blacks, seems like it'd be a perfect spot for me, and that's where the 50g actuation force yellows fit. I guess if I'm sure I want those I might need to just buy the switches and a hotswappable board, huh. Though if the GK96 comes with the 50g-weighted yellows that'd be perfect. Harrow fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Sep 22, 2021 |
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Sep 22, 2021 15:12
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Unsinkabear posted:Speaking of the GMMK Pro, I was tempted by the beautiful volume knob (in spite of the Yet again, Gearman hits the nail on the head: Gearman posted:The GMMK Pro and the RK84 serve two pretty different markets and, aside from having the same number of keys and being hotswap, are two very different boards. When someone calls the GMMK Pro an "entry level" board, they mean it's entry level for the hobby. It's difficult to compare the 'features' of a budget consumer mechanical keyboard to the kinds of 'features' you look for in a hobbyist board. Most of the things beginner hobbyists and consumers consider to be features have to do with functionality: Do the switches click? Does it work with my computer? Are there RGB LEDs? Does it have a rotary encoder? Most of the things hobbyists obsess over have absolutely nothing to do with directly producing a functional device. They're the minutia of an obsessive hobby more aimed at fine tuning and customizing the experience of a keyboard. These would be things like the weight of a board, the addition of a brass weight and the placement of said weight, the mounting system of the keyboard assembly, the type of feet used, they quality of the finish (polish/anodization/cerakote and the lack of hook marks from the process), the volume of open space in the board and how it affects sound, the silkscreen of the PCB, even the solder mask material/process of the PCB. There's some over lap somewhere in between the two though. I would say that both groups consider things like keyboard angle, possibly the front height of the board, the use or inclusion of plate foam or other sound dampening materials, the software/firmware that the keyboard uses, etc... GMMK is the perfect example of the intersection of these two segments of the hobby. It exists in that overlap where new hobbyists might have heard of a thing but not necessarily have a full understanding of what that thing is or why it is used, they just make the assumption that the inclusion of a thing is a 'feature' and it's omission is a negative or disadvantage. The GMMK cargo-cults a lot of the things that high end boards like gasket mount, plate foam, case foam, rotary encoder, QMK / VIA, "tuned stabilizers," and so on. It doesn't do that particularly well, but it does do it well enough to produce a functional board that isn't terrible, and that includes all the "features" that people who aren't several-years-and-tens-of-thousands-of-dollars into the hobby have probably heard of. The result is a mediocre board for a cheap (by enthusiast standards) price. It's pretty clear from their marketing materials that they themselves don't even have a full understanding of what they are offering:  Why "CNC Aluminum Case" and "Fully Machined Case" are listed as two separate things, I have no loving clue, but I'm glad they made it a point to let us know that it uses an ARM processor. Unsinkabear posted:Got it, that makes sense. Thanks for breaking it down. What does the bit about gasket mounting mean? Gasket mounting is part of the design of the keyboard construction. It refers to how the plate attaches to the case. In a gasket mounted keyboard, there is some sort of isolation material between the case and the plate, so that there is no direct contact of the switch plate to the case itself. There are various methods for implementing this general concept and they all have specific names (gasket sandwich, half gasket, burger mount, o-ring mount, gummi worm, etc...).
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Sep 22, 2021 16:36
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:The GMMK cargo-cults a lot of the things that high end boards like gasket mount, plate foam, case foam, rotary encoder, QMK / VIA, "tuned stabilizers," and so on. It doesn't do that particularly well, but it does do it well enough to produce a functional board that isn't terrible, and that includes all the "features" that people who aren't several-years-and-tens-of-thousands-of-dollars into the hobby have probably heard of. The result is a mediocre board for a cheap (by enthusiast standards) price. It's pretty clear from their marketing materials that they themselves don't even have a full understanding of what they are offering Thanks for the expanded answer. This was part of what I was wondering, I had a very strong hunch that this was the case (when you work in marketing you get an unfortunate amount of experience with people who think they don't need to understand a product to sell it, and the subtle talking-down-to-the-audience vibe that their bullshit has) but not enough knowledge in the area to pinpoint why. I'm somewhere in between. I definitely care about the sound and feel of a board and I'm willing to tinker some, but that still needs to be balanced against cost and I'd rather buy a one-and-done that's as close to my ideal as I can get than spend a significant amount of time and resources inching closer to perfection. I appreciate that there are so many of you brave goons blazing a trail by doing the latter, so the rest of us can just pick your brains and do the former. 
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Sep 22, 2021 17:17
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I'm happy to blaze that trail for you, I just hope you wind up liking where it goes. The hobby for me is the journey, not the destination. So like when I've finally got a board "figured out" or about as perfect as I think I can get it, I tend to not use it any more. Things I generally look out for when recommending a board to people: VIA or VIAL support. I have some qualms with VIA but certainly nothing that would prevent me from recommending it to someone. Just the opposite in fact. A lot of people are not interested in writing code to be able to use their keyboard and just want to be able to swap a couple keys or program a few macros or whatever, in a nice pretty interface. VIA is great for that. VIAL is still in its infancy but it's comin up fast and has rotary encoder support baked in. Boards with a proven track record. I try to avoid pushing people into boards that haven't run before because if there are issues then there won't be much information on them for a while and they'll likely have to join discords and work directly with designers to get them figured out. Avoid overly complicated boards. I try to keep it simple for newcomers, for obvious reasons. If you've never built a keyboard before and don't have an understanding of all the components and what they do and how they work then it's probably going to be a difficult, and probably not fun experience. Boards like the Vega65 are good, but there's a lot of parts to them and they can be difficult for people that aren't practiced and know the little tricks of keyboard assembly. Also I always throw out that you don't necessarily have to build a board to enjoy it. A lot of people have zero interest in doing it themselves, but want something more than just "a good keyboard for gaming." In that case, there's almost TOO many people out there willing to build the board for you. A number of them are even willing to do it for free. You're welcome and encouraged to look at services for yourself but if it's overwhelming then you can always ask me directly. I know a number of builders and can ask around for you. when it comes to budget; take what you think is a reasonable number and then double it. Because that is probably much more likely to be what it will take to get you the keyboard you want, and if you don't spend all that much then congrats! now you have money for a deskmat or some keycaps or something.
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Sep 22, 2021 19:54
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I did an Epomaker 108key hotswap RGB build. Like every other board ive gotten with their branding the thing flips out occasionally requiring me to 'reboot' it. Fail.
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Sep 23, 2021 14:10
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:I'm happy to blaze that trail for you, I just hope you wind up liking where it goes. Well my RK84 that I bought as a starting point (before we started talking about this, heh) came in already, and so far I love it. The subtle tactility of the browns is definitely an improvement over the straight-up linear Kailh silvers my partner has. It's the best board that I've personally touched so far, pretty close to my old Nopre in both sound and feel, and for $75 after coupon seems like a rock solid deal. I think there's a little room for improvement in feel (I think I would maybe like an even softer bottom-out sensation) but I'd say it's 90+% of the way there. The only real con is that the RGB lighting seems to use PWM and is a little hard to look at on full brightness (disorienting whenever your point of focus moves quickly) but full brightness is kind of overkill anyway. On the two lowest brightness settings this effect disappears, and you just get these beautiful soft colors that come through. I'm sure I'll have to replace the keycaps at some point since they're not PBT, but for right now I'm digging the minimalist all-white + soft RGB vibe. I don't think it supports VIA or VIAL (at least, I couldn't find any info indicating that it does), but for now I'm content with the stock config. Will report back if impressions change.
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Sep 23, 2021 20:14
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I read the OP and the last 7 or 8 pages of the thread and have learned alot about keyboards that I never knew existed until now. I'm currently shopping for a keyboard for my home office set up that will also be used to game in FPS's regularly like Destiny, Warzone and other FPS's. I would like a wired 100% (so full size yes with some space between the numpad and the rest of the keys?) solid quality mechanical keyboard between $100-$150 ish dollars. I looked into the different colour ratings that are used in this space and considering I have a dog that I would like to not annoy and let her sleep, I think silent red or brown with tactile switches would be the best? Can someone please point me in the right direction? I was eyeing the RK100 if i can't find something decent with the space between the arrow keys and the numpad. e: if some other size is standard for gaming i guess i would also be interested in knowing a bit about that
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Sep 23, 2021 22:19
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you can make yourself the perfect keyboard my dude welcome 2 hell
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Sep 23, 2021 22:49
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Casual Encountess posted:you can make yourself the perfect keyboard my dude welcome 2 hell I have glimpsed the abyss and have no wish to stare, I'll stick to Warhammer 40,000 lore
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Sep 23, 2021 22:51
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https://www.pcgamingrace.com/products/gmmk-full-brown-switch Regular GMMK with Brown switches is $110.
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Sep 23, 2021 23:09
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wife is now jealous of da board and wants one of her own she's debating TKL vs 75%. most of the fun is making it so does anyone have a good DIY TLK recommendation at a reasonable ish price? Soldering appreciated.
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Sep 24, 2021 02:36
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Does switch choice matter in terms of dealing with repetitive stress injuries? If so, what matters? Activation force, peak force, linear vs tactile, other factors? For context, my faithful Topre Type Heaven ZA0100 is giving up the ghost, and whatever I replace it with needs to be something that's easy on my hosed-up wrists. I have a heavy keystroke that I've never been able to rid myself of despite years of trying, and it occurs to me that a heavy keystroke may not play nicely with Topre's weird switches and RSIs. The boards on Deskthority's ergonomics page seem to use a lot of Brown, but are also kinda all over the place. I'd love recommendations in general for replacing a Topre Type Heaven, too, as I love its quiet sound, smooth feel, and total lack of LEDs. I do a great deal of typing, and my gaming is mostly slow-paced strategy/simulation stuff. If I can get a prebuilt solution that's ideal, but if the best option is assembling it myself, I can manage that. Kestral fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Sep 24, 2021 |
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Sep 24, 2021 05:43
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oh no. I found a $3 deskmat at goodwill and now the wife wants it for her desk, and also a keyboard to match. Little does she know I have like 3 on the way that will match nicely. Sure hope she likes 40's.  
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Sep 24, 2021 05:55
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Kestral posted:Does switch choice matter in terms of dealing with repetitive stress injuries? If so, what matters? Activation force, peak force, linear vs tactile, other factors? I don't know how much of a difference the switches make. If I had to guess I'd say not much. For me the main thing that prevents pain is being able to split the keyboard and angle the two halves, ideally tenting the halves, so that I have a neutral wrist angle. I also use home row mods so my fingers aren't stretching as much. I have a Levinson from keeb.io and I've found it very comfortable, even though it's nowhere near the most ergonomic design around. They have a bunch of other split keyboards that seem popular. It's mostly DIY though. Other than that I know of the ergodox and the moonlander, both split boards.
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Sep 24, 2021 06:21
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:oh no. I found a $3 deskmat at goodwill and now the wife wants it for her desk, and also a keyboard to match. Little does she know I have like 3 on the way that will match nicely. I need it.
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Sep 24, 2021 07:30
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Nam Taf posted:I need it. Great news
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Sep 24, 2021 08:05
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Waroduce posted:I read the OP and the last 7 or 8 pages of the thread and have learned alot about keyboards that I never knew existed until now. I'm currently shopping for a keyboard for my home office set up that will also be used to game in FPS's regularly like Destiny, Warzone and other FPS's. I would like a wired 100% (so full size yes with some space between the numpad and the rest of the keys?) solid quality mechanical keyboard between $100-$150 ish dollars. I looked into the different colour ratings that are used in this space and considering I have a dog that I would like to not annoy and let her sleep, I think silent red or brown with tactile switches would be the best? https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=26 If you just want to simply pick up something that catches your fancy, it's hard to go wrong with Ducky, Leopold, Filco, or Varmilo boards here. They're all offered in a variety of switch choices and tend to fit the 100-150$ price range. The GMMK is also a good value, and it's what I would get if you wanted to mess around with boards a lot more to try out different switches and modding, but I wouldn't say the stock build quality is quite as good as some others, and I kinda hate the keycaps that they include by default. For a barebones build that you're going to mess with and put in your own keys and caps, though, it's good.
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Sep 24, 2021 14:44
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Must resist the temptation [GB] PHASE ONE 65 GASKET MOUNT MECHANICAL KEYBOARD DIY KIT $468.00 https://kbdfans.com/collections/group-buy/products/ic-phase-one-65 
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Sep 24, 2021 16:15
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Must resist the temptation Go ortho and you’ll have a lot less temptations.
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Sep 24, 2021 17:15
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The Ginkgo65 is currently available as a GB, not the worst price for an aluminum chassis: https://ginkgo65.com 
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Sep 24, 2021 18:24
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If I wasn’t already holding out for the Maja GB or taking my chances at getting a Frog TKL in October, I would be getting this to replace my KBD67 Lite. Love that green and black case.
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Sep 24, 2021 19:25
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LochNessMonster posted:Go ortho and you’ll have a lot less temptations. I haven't even gotten to try an ortho board yet
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Sep 25, 2021 02:04
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I recently impulse bought some new keycaps for my Ducky and Drop accidentally sent me someone else's order instead, then told me to keep it. I'm now the owner of two sets of switches (Everglide Aqua and Dark Jade) that I'm not really sure what to do with. I could just resell them I guess but whatever. I've never built a keyboard and I don't own one with hotswap switches, but this seems like an opportunity to try things out! Are there any recommendations for 65-85% hotswap boards? I'd rather spend $150 on something nice-looking and solid than $50 on something I won't want to keep, but also I'm not looking for the be-all end-all . What's the story with lubing and stickers and stuff, are those things I need to know about or is that Advanced Level? (I ask because when I googled these switches to figure out what they were I read people saying "they're much better if you lube them").
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Sep 25, 2021 17:49
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mayday mayday posted:I recently impulse bought some new keycaps for my Ducky and Drop accidentally sent me someone else's order instead, then told me to keep it. I'm now the owner of two sets of switches (Everglide Aqua and Dark Jade) that I'm not really sure what to do with. I could just resell them I guess but whatever. I've never built a keyboard and I don't own one with hotswap switches, but this seems like an opportunity to try things out! You hit the jackpot with those dark jades, they are excellent and I've held off on buying more of them entirely because they're so expensive. For 65% in your budget, this is my recommendation well above anything else: https://divinikey.com/collections/keyboards/products/kbdfans-kbd67-lite-mechanical-keyboard-diy-kit It's got all of the features of hobby-level boards, comes with a case, coiled cable, and rgb if that's your thing. The stock stabilizers are actually pretty good too, though I do highly recommend doing the usual lubing for them like most stabilizers.
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Sep 25, 2021 18:30
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LochNessMonster posted:Go ortho and you’ll have a lot less temptations.  my moonlander is endgame because there's just not much else out there. i don't use the thumb keys much so maybe one of the compact DIY boards would work better for me but this is nice because i can still use it for gaming, whereas those compact ones get so compact you would have to pull out a macropad to play ff14 or something the one thing i'm on the lookout for is a low profile split ortho board. that would get me to drop another stupid amount of money.
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Sep 25, 2021 19:27
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Must resist the temptation Ah gently caress, I can't believe you've done this.
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Sep 26, 2021 15:20
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