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atelier morgan posted:While there are no extant examples in hellworld it is not theoretically impossible to have an intelligence apparatus that is actually concerned with real threats rather than running drug rings and pedophilia rackets There are absolutely intelligence apparatuses that are concerned with real threats to their own power.
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Sep 15, 2021 07:37
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Power, corruption^ (absolute)
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Sep 15, 2021 08:29
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NewMars posted:Or a cheap attempt to try and undercut Vegas, even! Hate Vegas Hate Mormons Love Cowboys Love Mining Unions Simple As
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Sep 15, 2021 18:53
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By the way, for people who are apprehensive about the discord making the thread impenetrable: thread decisions are never made there. In fact, I think the only time the discord ever really affected what was going on in the thread was when we realized that Gladio had a moon base in there, which was immediately reported in-thread as well. But even that aside, we're actively trying to channel energy and discussion back into the thread.
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Sep 15, 2021 20:20
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Excerp from the Workers Weekly Opinion piece by Agripin Antonov - Junior Airframe engineer, unemployed. Comrades! The attack on the Interkosmos Shipyard is an attack on all of us. All who dream of humanity united under the common dream of equality, freedom and prosperity. It is clear that within our society there are still those who would unleash the weapons of the last war upon us indiscriminately, our dreams of lasting peace lay shattered and broken across orbital space. The golden path has been taken from us, but we can still ensure the future for all peoples if we have the strength to act, we must develop weapons of war to ensure peace. To this end I and my comrades at the Kosmonautical Engineering Academy in Moscow have, using new TNE materials available to our student faculty, developed the theoretical prototypes for a multi-purpose airframe that can project force between Earth and Luna and defend us from further attacks from our hated ideological enemies of NATO.  The MIG2, a space superiority fighter. It's main armament is a 10cm infrared laser which allows it to challenge any known ship many times its size even in modest sized squadrones.  The Kestrel, a point defense airframe designed to intercept and shoot down nuclear missiles, even modern ICBM's, using a three barrelled railgun. A single one of these could potentially have saved Interkosmos had it been scrambled during the attack. Both airframes are frighteningly fast, both use the same parts with only their weapons system differentiating their class. Both can be put into production in less than a year with modest investment in developing the theoretical prototype modules. I call for the immediate relocation of resources to the capacity to produce these airframes, about 40 fighter factories would be enough to ensure that either of these fighters could be produced in less than a month.
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Sep 16, 2021 10:04
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How many fighters do we need to build for one... wing? unit? flock? Should they all be stationed in one place, or spread out among the various continents and the moon?
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Sep 16, 2021 11:34
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The following report was prepared by two specialists in the Far East Asian Affairs Bureau of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Soviet Union. Extracts have been published below. The Chinese Political Situation Recent developments in the People's Republic of China have led to two conclusions. First: The "Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution" still retains a grip in the countryside and across multiple organs of state in the countryside, in provincial centers, and in work units in the cities. Second: the top leadership of the People's Republic is unstable, and composed of several ruling factions. It would be facile to assume that there are only two factions in Chinese politics today - as Western European news media used to speak of 'liberal' and 'conservative' factions and with inconsistent applications of both those terms. Chinese media, in publications such as the People's Daily, or the People's Liberation Army Daily tend to flatten out terms into either a kind of 'leftist' and 'rightist' understanding, and these terms were inconsistently applied, given the factional disputes between parties. It is best to understand the interplay of different factions, of the role of the People's Liberation Army, and the struggles for position between different leadership centers in the years since the death of Mao Zedong. Nominally, Hua Guofeng is chairman of the Communist Party of China and Wang Dongxing as chair of the Central Military Commission, but power is not embodied in these titles alone. There are other factions within ministries at the Premier level and below. Other figures, such as Deng Xiaoping or Chen Yun, may be making moves against him. Fundamentalists This category, broadly defined, includes some of the more extreme elements of the Cultural Revolution, believing that the challenges that China faces today can be overcome by sheer willpower and ideological purity. This group is potentially, but not necessarily, anti-urban, anti-bureaucratic, and 'anti-foreign' - read, anti-Soviet or anti-Japanese in recent years. In the material conditions that had produced them, they may superficially resemble anti-foreign elements in the feudal and semi-colonial period of Chinese history. They are the inheritors of Sun Yat-sen's statement of 'self-reliance' 自力更生, of the anti-missionary movement of the 1860s, the Boxer Rebellion of the 1890s, and again in the early stages Cultural Revolution of the 1960s. Many of the younger leaders of this group still continue to publish articles and agitate in their flavor of politics - this the ideologue Qi Benyu, and Wang Li, who has agitated for 'continuous revolution' and the 'proletarianization' of the People's Liberation Army. Nie Yuanzi, a former student leader in Beijing, still holds considerable informal power in the 'dual-track' of institutions that have been established by former rebel militia. Conservatives The second faction in Chinese politics still wishes to engage in the development of the productive forces - through industrialization and the import of advanced technology - but still maintaining the adapations of socialist governance to the agricultural-peasant model of Chinese life. In this way, it is a parallel to previous reforms of the "Chinese Learning as Substance, Western Learning for Application" 中體西用 school. They may wish to maintain the predominant position of the party in life. They wish to continue the pre-split course of foreign affairs and possibly a restoration of relations with the Soviet Union. These leaders may include the party Vice Chariman Chen Yun, the former secretary general of the Central Military Commission Yang Shangkun, and, a Beijing official and current Vice Premier Li Peng. Modernizers The third and likely smallest group, may yet be more tolerant of reforms, accepting foreign influences, and engaging contact with the rest of the outside world. Some may accept the need for a state bureaucracy, others may have advocated for a further devolution of power and establishment of local communes and granting more power to work units. Some have trumpeted the recent example of Xiaogang as a template for the rest of China, superseding the example of the place once held by Dazhai agricultural reforms, however that example has not been widely implemented. Potential leaders here may include Hu Yaobang, Secretary General of the CCP, and Zhao Ziyang, a Vice Chairman of the Party. Coalition Politics Incredibly, one of the most intriguing developments in Chinese politics is a tentative coalition developing between the Fundamentalists and the Modernizers. Hu Yaobang had been photographed making multiple visits to Red Guard factories and institutions, and recent public statements had indicated a possibility of the support of 'transfer of local control' and 'village and commune enterprises' as recurring phrases. This may potentially indicate a reform of enterprises and the agricultural system to the self-management of the Yugoslav or the Hungarian system. While some provinces, such as Anhui and Hunan, have experimented with these reforms, they cannot be said to have been implemented on a national scale. Conclusions While China and the Soviet Union were co-belligerents in the GRW, and contacts continue to exist in terms of work with technical expertise, in communicating the broad strokes of military strategy, and in more frequent civilian exchanges, elite politics remain a black box. Initiatives are proposed at the ministerial level or below, often presented as attempts at cooperation and potentially motivated by internal jockeying. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is at times either a flatterer, saying our diplomats and visiting representatives are 'old friends of China', or that we should take more responsibility or taking the initiative. Sources at a higher level are limited. The future trajectory of the CCP cannot be extrapolated in a single track. Any analysis of China is related to the art of studying leadership photographs, poring over public statements, and deciphering any changes in slogans or stated priorities in Five-Year Plans. Nevertheless, it can be said with certainty that the leadership of the People's Republic of China is in flux, and that the convulsions of the Cultural Revolution have not played themselves out. Kangxi fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Sep 16, 2021 |
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Sep 16, 2021 13:13
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Huh, it seems like china's pretty detached from the comintern as a whole?
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Sep 16, 2021 16:15
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Those fighters are absolutely going to get shredded by anything fielding any sort of weaponry, at 2,000 speed you want to be able to take the hits, and at that size with that armor belt almost every hit is going to pierce hull. Also at 18 hours of fuel time you don't need a month of deployment, make your deployment a fraction of that and put the saved tonnage into engines or something like fuel. Those fighters maaaaybe more viable if you ditch the energy weapons and strap on some box launchers. This would allow the fighters to engage from outside known/contemporary energy weapon ranges and maybe not get shredded by return fire. A flight of fighters armed with missiles can punch exponentially higher than their tonnage, and can keep doing it. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 00:30
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As for Africa, any sort of Pan-Africa organization should be heavily skeptical of any claims coming from what to them is going to appear as a majorly pan-European organization, and I really don't see them engaging with anything heavily unless repreiations for colonialism are implemented.
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Sep 17, 2021 00:53
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Telsa Cola posted:As for Africa, any sort of Pan-Africa organization should be heavily skeptical of any claims coming from what to them is going to appear as a majorly pan-European organization, and I really don't see them engaging with anything heavily unless repreiations for colonialism are implemented. As the Haitian "player" Ive been thinking of having the eventual red Haiti be a hardline anticolonial and a major first world sceptic. After all Africa, New Africa, and Haiti can credibly argue for Europe's two facedness.
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Sep 17, 2021 00:57
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Yeah the fighters are junk and will be hopelessly obsolete in a year but that’s sort of the point. My character is a reactionary and we just got nuked. The main draw of his proposal is the capacity to build fighters at all. Also I tried making the deployment time less but it won’t accept fractions or 0.
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Sep 17, 2021 05:14
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NewMars posted:Huh, it seems like china's pretty detached from the comintern as a whole? They're not detached, but politically all their energy seems to be sucked up by internal issues which is understandable. Most of Europe would probably be the same way if the internal issues they faced weren't so massive that the only sane response is cooperation in international efforts.
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Sep 17, 2021 05:59
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Demiurge4 posted:Yeah the fighters are junk and will be hopelessly obsolete in a year but that’s sort of the point. My character is a reactionary and we just got nuked. The main draw of his proposal is the capacity to build fighters at all. Also I tried making the deployment time less but it won’t accept fractions or 0. What version is this being run on again? I have fighters with .1 deployment in my current run.
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Sep 17, 2021 06:56
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Telsa Cola posted:What version is this being run on again? I have fighters with .1 deployment in my current run. I was using comma's  I updated the designs for 3 day deployments and optimized the engine size vs hull, plus added an extra point of armor. The whole frame comes up to 490 tons now for both fighters, 497 for the Kestrel since it has the missile detector. They do lose some speed but like Bates said in Discord, we're running on basically 1970's designs and this is just a bulky Russian MIG adapted for TNE's and space flight in a week. Reminder this is an RP heavy LP and my character has extreme nuke phobia, hence no box launchers. 
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Sep 17, 2021 07:19
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March 1, 1983 There is a moment of shocked silence in Mission Control on Ascension Island. The moment is shattered by a loud, broken, staticy radio transmission: a desperate request for help, from a worker in a damaged utility shuttle. The night crew - and the day crew, filtering into the room in various states of undress - spring into action, as more and more similar calls come in. Ground-based telescopes are quickly trained on the site, and cross-referencing them with communications from survivors allows a picture of the stricken station's current status to be put together. One of the three massive slipway arms has been sheared completely off, and is currently drifting away in pieces. The rest of the station has been peppered with debris. It is streaming atmosphere in several places, active fires are burning, and the entire massive structure is in a slow lateral spin. If it can be saved at all, it'll be out of commission for months, possibly longer. It is, however, partly intact, and already Ascension is receiving communications from survivors inside the station, desperately fighting for their lives. Interkosmos Station loses a slipway outright, and the remaining two will be unusable for an unknown period of time.  The first victim of the expanding cloud of debris is the Electron sensor platform, currently passing over Europe. A shotgun blast of high-velocity artificial meteors pummels the small space station, badly mangling her outer hull. By some miracle, not only is the pressure hull not breached, but all mission-critical systems report nominal. The crew grimly resume their work after confirming they are not dead. The largest pieces of destroyed slipway have all been knocked into unstable and rapidly decaying orbits and will make their way down to Earth over the next few days. Some of them will likely survive and strike the surface, and a team at Ascension is currently predicting possible trajectories and alerting local emergency services in likely impact locations. The detonation was visible with the naked eye throughout Europe and North Africa and news of it spreads worldwide in seconds. Your forces on the ground in Europe, after recovering their senses, resume fighting with renewed vigor. On the Moon, the Lunar Self-Defense Force receives a message, and comes to a realization: the nuke was bound for their spaceport, which means someone may have been here in Lunagrad city to receive it. Company A, deployed on security duty in the city proper, suits up, eager for revenge. They will hunt. The rest of the day passes in a haze. The Vandenberg summit is still technically happening, and the diplomats try to keep things moving along, but everything is effectively on hold as people process the news and radio their home nations for instructions. GLADIO insurrectionists in over thirty municipalities in Europe do battle with local forces. The fighting is still ongoing by dawn on March 2nd, but one thing is obvious to everyone on both sides: you are winning. Whatever their plan was - and there are many who are eager to find out, now that the nuclear threat has been taken off the board - it didn't work, and the assets they chose to burn for this were not sufficient to fight a conventional war. None seem eager to join them, they are confused and uncoordinated at the strategic level, and those opposing them have their resolve strengthened by rage and indignation. Reactionary fighters are isolated, surrounded, and systematically destroyed, or, seeing the writing on the wall, melt away into the cities and the rural countryside. Fewer and fewer new incidents are reported as the hours go by, although several localized hotspots of intense combat remain active. Mop-up operations will probably take days or even weeks, but that is the phrase already being thrown around by the revolution's generals - 'mop-up'. Comintern liaisons in Japan report the quiet mobilization of sizable Japanese military forces in and around the localities out of which the US Government-in Exile operates. They inform the Interplanetary People's Army through official channels that they intend to move within hours. Every spacecraft in Earth orbit not dedicated to surveillance is pressed into search and rescue duty. Thousands of people are rescued from the Interkosmos Station debris cloud by pretty much everything flying - your Berowra freighters, the Hawaiian and AAA civilian ships, even the Luna and Tranquility are put to work. Damage control teams work to stabilize what remains of the station, to at least hold it together long enough for proper repairs to be made later. Casualty reports from Interkosmos Station start coming in. They're very early and inexact, more educated guesses than actual hard numbers; with the command and control section having been almost completely destroyed and much of the station still cut off from communication, there is still much you don't know. What you do know is that at least four thousand of the approximately ten thousand people aboard are dead, incinerated in the explosion or floating in the empty blackness of space.
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Sep 17, 2021 09:15
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On the fighters, I don't think it's worth pursuing both laser and railgun technology at this stage. Our brave comrades in the research labs already have a multitude of different areas to focus on, many of which can materially improve the lives of millions of workers. For the rudimentary space force we are talking about, picking one multi-purpose weapon system and sticking with it seems like a much more prudent use of our time and energy. While this hypothetical 'laser' might have better armor penetration and range compared to the railgun, we have to be aware these fighters will be obsolete in a few years, so a general-purpose model should do the trick just fine.
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Sep 17, 2021 09:34
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I just don't get what destroying the slipways was intended to gain them. GLADIO doesn't have any spacecraft, militarised or otherwise. This was never going to be a war between space-battleships, so how does reducing our ability to create them advance their cause? This was unquestionably a victory, and I don't think there's another shoe about to drop, but it raises as many questions as answers. I move that the captured weapons have their cores reprocessed into fuel rods for civilian nuclear reactors. Let us beat their swords into ploughshares. The Lone Badger fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 09:43
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They are striking at a symbol of socialist progress. Besides, it seems to be a last-minute plan B with the main target being Lunagrad, the even greater symbol of socialist progress. We suffered a tragedy today, but we only dodged something magnitudes worse by a hair's breadth.
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Sep 17, 2021 09:58
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The Lone Badger posted:I just don't get what destroying the slipways was intended to gain them. GLADIO doesn't have any spacecraft, militarised or otherwise. This was never going to be a war between space-battleships, so how does reducing our ability to create them advance their cause? It was a desperation thing: their original goal was to ship it to lunagrad, but that failed, so they aimed westward, probably at Paris or some major european city, which then didn't work out because of the missile defenses hitting them, so they broke orbit and aimed at the nearest station. Interkosmos, incidentally, is a civilian spaceport. Telsa Cola posted:As for Africa, any sort of Pan-Africa organization should be heavily skeptical of any claims coming from what to them is going to appear as a majorly pan-European organization, and I really don't see them engaging with anything heavily unless repreiations for colonialism are implemented. We did already implement that, actually. Also it's worth noting that this is where Cuba comes in big: they've been backing up the African efforts massively, essentially leading the organization of military and social organization there in a wave of revolutions from north to south. At least that's my understanding.
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Sep 17, 2021 10:00
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The Lone Badger posted:I just don't get what destroying the slipways was intended to gain them. GLADIO doesn't have any spacecraft, militarised or otherwise. This was never going to be a war between space-battleships, so how does reducing our ability to create them advance their cause? seconded
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Sep 17, 2021 10:11
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In the terms of cold, cruel, dispassionate reasoning, this is essentially the ideal outcome. They could have succeeded in everything, and reignited the war; they could have taken out Paris or Lunagrad, killing millions; and they could have failed utterly, killing nobody. Instead, they were forced to stake everything and won only a single scratch, which gave us a thousand martyrs to invoke every time people claim us to be the villains. They are spent, as an organisation, but we can throw their name around for the next twenty years. "Why, Mr UN Envoy, what do you mean you object to railguns on Lunar soil, we are acting in self-defence! Do you wish for another Interkosmos incident? How many more Comrade Evanses must give their lives before you deem it fitting we live in peace?" etc.
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Sep 17, 2021 10:15
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The question becomes: we've thought it, but are we big enough bastards to actually act like that?
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Sep 17, 2021 10:23
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Do we really have a choice?
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Sep 17, 2021 10:32
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Rubix Squid posted:Do we really have a choice? Of course there is! And no matter which way you go, there are always degrees.
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Sep 17, 2021 10:40
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We might be putting spikes into our big club, but we're still dedicated to speaking softly at length before we swing it.
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Sep 17, 2021 10:43
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Rubix Squid posted:Do we really have a choice? That depends on who we’re negotiating with and their reactions. I’m curious to see if the GiE in Japan have any connections directly though to this. Very curious.
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Sep 17, 2021 10:44
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Not sure it's especially bastardly to cite the very real fact that capitalists tried to reignite nuclear war in an argument for preventing them from being able to do that again.
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Sep 17, 2021 11:34
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That's largely why I feel like we don't have a choice. They won't care how many people they have to kill to claw their way back into power. Powers out of the Comintern are either unable, unwilling, or secretly supporting them. It goes without saying that we'd prefer the Earth to even more scarred by nuclear weapons so we have to the be ones to step up and do something and I can't see a way of going about that that doesn't involved a very large stick. I don't want to use it, but we can't not have it.
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Sep 17, 2021 12:15
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Just posting in here that there is planned legislation for the disarmament of nuclear weapons and banning of nuclear weapons technology when the next congregation of the politburo happens, along with a formalized war crimes council. We at the CWC would look forward to your votes when these bills hit the floor.
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Sep 17, 2021 12:32
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There is always a choice. What has happened here is tragic but it is also important to note what a victory this has been. We've been able to prevent large scale death and destruction, we've been able to ensure that the future we are all working towards can continue to happen, and we have ensured that it is very unlikely that any event of this kind will occur soon. The one thing I hope for is that we can find who has been backing these monsters, at least then we can find out fully what they sought to achieve by killing so many people.
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Sep 17, 2021 12:33
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I mean yes there's a choice, we can choose not to cite the very real fact that capitalists tried to reignite nuclear war in an argument for preventing them from being able to do that again, but if we chose instead to do that, it would not be any kind of underhanded move, it would be entirely in good faith because we don't want capitalists to be able to kill more people with nukes!
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Sep 17, 2021 13:07
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GLADIO was one dice roll away from nuking tens of millions of people, just as the opening fireworks show for their attempt to kill millions more, and had a worldwide network entirely willing to press the button that we only (mostly) defeated through sheer luck. If we hadn't gotten lucky on the roll to find the Revenge, Vandenberg would have gotten nuked and then been quickly followed by most of Europe and we couldn't have done poo poo about it. If we hadn't gotten lucky on the roll to sneak up on the Revenge, and then again if we hadn't gotten lucky on the crew rolling to mutiny, it would have been destroyed instead of captured and we wouldn't have known to go looking for the missing warheads until cities started turning into craters. If we hadn't gotten lucky on the rolls to find all the missing nukes, if we hadn't gotten lucky on the rolls to neutralize the GLADIO cells before they could set off their nukes, if we hadn't gotten lucky on blowing the Buran's cover and then winging it with a SAM. No offense to our brave and spooky comrades in the intelligence services but this wasn't skill or preparedness, it was sheer utter luck, a run of half a dozen favorable rolls where any one going a different way would have killed millions of people. We can't rely on that for next time. And there is definitely going to be a next time, GLADIO burned some assets but this isn't the last of them, hell it's probably not even the last of their current nuclear stockpile - when a superpower collapses it's basically impossible to stop some warheads going missing in the chaos, they've got more somewhere somehow I guarantee it. I'm not trying to be the hard man making hard decisions while hard over here, but a surveillance state and a bunch of railguns ready to shoot down any flying object in the Earth-Luna system on a second's notice isn't paranoia it's the only thing we currently have access to that could have actually reliably stopped this attempt. We got lucky this time but I refuse to rely on half a dozen rolls all going the exact right way the next time GLADIO tries something, that's going to end in a nuked Paris eventually.
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Sep 17, 2021 13:14
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A surveillance state? No. A unified surveillance service on the other hand, would be much more workable. Realtalk, though, what we need is a general tightening up of our ability to run a nation: much of this happened because of the general collapse of the world state. There are a billion little cracks that GLADIO could just slip away into and widen. Through unification, reconstruction and education we can remove the areas of physical and social turmoil that provide their shelter and breeding ground, without having to resort to ridiculously overempowering any kind of state sec.
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Sep 17, 2021 13:18
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NewMars posted:A surveillance state? No. A unified surveillance service on the other hand, would be much more workable. Quite right. We're currently pouring a lot of resources into the socialist aid program but as soon as there's no more refugee camps and people living in directly hazardous conditions we should pivot into something like an operation rising tide to ensure every citizen have more or less equal access to the fundamentals of a decent life.
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Sep 17, 2021 13:26
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One thing we can do immediately: launch an operation to get every single nuke accounted for immediately. Our arsenal, India's arsenal, Israel's arsenal, everybody's. Not a single weapon whose location is unknown.
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Sep 17, 2021 13:45
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That probably ends with "lol so turns out the Americans lost like 200 warheads and nobody has any idea where they are now," if we can even get records on what their pre-war arsenal was and what was expended during the war. But an inventory of as much as we can manage is definitely a good idea, I'm just expecting the final conclusion to be "so we have all the COMINTERN nukes tagged but zero idea what happened to a bunch of the capitalist ones or even exactly how many the capitalists had in the first place."
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Sep 17, 2021 13:57
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Crazycryodude posted:That probably ends with "lol so turns out the Americans lost like 200 warheads and nobody has any idea where they are now," if we can even get records on what their pre-war arsenal was and what was expended during the war. But an inventory of as much as we can manage is definitely a good idea, I'm just expecting the final conclusion to be "so we have all the COMINTERN nukes tagged but zero idea what happened to a bunch of the capitalist ones or even exactly how many the capitalists had in the first place." There's one place we can find those records for sure though: the spiro agnew presidential bunker, located somewhere in the district of columbia.
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Sep 17, 2021 14:15
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Time to declare a War on Terror. Let's invade Alabama.
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Sep 17, 2021 14:15
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Crazycryodude posted:That probably ends with "lol so turns out the Americans lost like 200 warheads and nobody has any idea where they are now," if we can even get records on what their pre-war arsenal was and what was expended during the war. But an inventory of as much as we can manage is definitely a good idea, I'm just expecting the final conclusion to be "so we have all the COMINTERN nukes tagged but zero idea what happened to a bunch of the capitalist ones or even exactly how many the capitalists had in the first place." Converting a nuclear warhead to a demolition munition is actually a pretty major task. They're usually specifically designed to not work when trying to use them outside whatever specific conditions they were designed for - e.g. an ICBM warhead has internal sensors that expect to feel strong acceleration, then free fall, then deceleration accompanied by heat and pressure. If any of these measured values are not within the expected ranges, the detonator will not fire. Changing this can be done (and we know for a fact that GLADIO has done it) but it requires pulling the warhead apart and rebuilding some quite important parts of it. We could possibly look for workshops and personnel capable of doing that?
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Sep 17, 2021 14:27
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