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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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They just voted to approve boosters for people over 65, or people at high risk of severe COVID-19. I will remind everyone obesity is a marker for high risk COVID-19 and you can consider yourself obese if your body mass index (body weight and height, https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm ) is 30 or higher. A 5 foot 9 inch person that weighs 205 or more pounds has a BMI of 30 and is at high risk for severe COVID-19. Please stay safe and protect yourself goons.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:24
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| # ? May 23, 2024 06:20 |
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Edit removing as the post above has more data.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:24
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I have to say, I had high hopes for this thread after it got rebooted, especially since the OP is very very good (thank you Professor Beetus), but it looks like it has once again turned into a place where people come to air ridiculous grievances based on poorly written news articles and a complete lack of understanding of scientific principles, shortcomings of evidence based medicine, as well as how the US government operates at various levels and why. Frankly, posts like this: virtualboyCOLOR posted:That is the point. The FDA provided a gift to the anti-vaccine folks (diehards and grifters) to further confuse the public. ...make this thread unreadable. The suggestion that FDA showed a PowerPoint by an anti-vax public commenter in order to further confuse the public is just absolute nuts. The more charitable interpretation, that the public will become more confused because the FDA gave anti-vaxxers a chance to voice their opinions, is not much better. Furthermore, I'm going to go out on a limb and risk a probation by pointing out the elephant in the room because someone has to: there appears to be a fair amount of leakage from the CSPAM covid thread (which I also read sometimes, against my better judgment) to this one. People are bringing idiotic sensationalist material from there to here under the guise of "just asking questions" but what they really want to do is fearmonger and validate their own fears while also bashing the Biden administration. Nothing wrong with that last one (I myself have complained about Biden's hesitation to take more drastic measures) but the tone and language coming from these posters are way over the top. Referring to delays/refusals to approve boosters as "unbelievable failure" and asserting that it contributes to "continued bungling of the virus response" is impossible to take seriously. I would like to request stricter moderation, because there's still potential for this thread to be a place for actual experts to disseminate information and for everyone else to listen and learn from them. I don't mean that to come across as elitist but I think everyone (not just posters but also lurkers) would benefit from a higher signal to noise ratio. Otherwise, the knowledgeable people will get burned out and leave. Case in point: Rosalind posted:I have to say that this thread is a bit exhausting. It feels like any rational discourse is drowned out by people with extreme views. I totally get that this is an emotionally charged and scary topic, but it's tough to engage with this thread from a scientific background. Please stay, Rosalind. You've consistently been one of the best posters in this thread and its previous iteration, and your posts here reach a much wider audience than PMs do. Hopefully the IK (or the mods) can be convinced to take a science-first approach to moderation.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:26
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I will also remind folks that drinking a gallon of water will add 8 lbs to your weight, so please measure your weight carefully and accurately taking into account any liquids you might have consumed just prior.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:27
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covid pro tips: give yourself hyponatremia so you can lie to your doctor about needing a 3rd shot.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:29
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OddObserver posted:Broadly, I kinda wonder about that. Most cases involving public comments actually seem to turn out to be undemocratic, since they give advantage to people with lots of time on their hands (see e.g. all the "grassroots anti-CRT protests").... and, frankly, the point of the FDA is to make professional decisions, so what you and me think isn't likely to be very material? Public feedback can be good, but because it selects for only the craziest people with lots of time on their hands and are easily astroturfed, mostly the effect is to make everybody involved want a beer. I have no idea what the idea was behind this one since afaik the public doesn't get to actually make that call. If you're gonna have them, they should definitely have time dedicated to reading feedback from people who couldn't make it, which there will always be. mod sassinator posted:I will also remind folks that drinking a gallon of water will add 8 lbs to your weight, so please measure your weight carefully and accurately taking into account any liquids you might have consumed just prior. No more of this, please.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:29
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mod sassinator posted:I will also remind folks that drinking a gallon of water will add 8 lbs to your weight, so please measure your weight carefully and accurately taking into account any liquids you might have consumed just prior. Hold Your Wee For A Vaccine
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Sep 17, 2021 21:29
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Mercury is way denser than water so 8 pounds of it occupies far less volume e: sorry, meant to post in the physics 101 thread, I'm trying to delete it
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Sep 17, 2021 21:33
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:I have to say, I had high hopes for this thread after it got rebooted, especially since the OP is very very good (thank you Professor Beetus), but it looks like it has once again turned into a place where people come to air ridiculous grievances based on poorly written news articles and a complete lack of understanding of scientific principles, shortcomings of evidence based medicine, as well as how the US government operates at various levels and why. It's really important to use the ignore feature. There's not much more to it.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:33
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Referring to delays/refusals to approve boosters as "unbelievable failure" and asserting that it contributes to "continued bungling of the virus response" is impossible to take seriously. I stand by this position. Israel is a close ally, and has been remarkably transparent through the whole pandemic. They have given us a warning about waning immunity from essentially two months in our own future and I think it is one we would do well to heed.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:33
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I know there's a lot of familiar faces popping up but one of the things I'd hoped to avoid, as naive as it sounds*, , that due to the historic significance of the Covid pandemic, that this could be one place where the idiotic DND/CSPAM dumb bullshit could be clamped down on a little bit. I really don't want to have to go stricter with moderation, which is why I offered incentives and positive reinforcement for participation! I would love if people could put aside their grievances for at least this one truly important topic that is putting a tremendous amount of stress on everyone here in so many different and tragic ways. I will ask once again for people to treat each other like fellow humans, and if folks can't stop themselves, then I will absolutely start probing people who can't turn it down. Morrow posted:It's really important to use the ignore feature. There's not much more to it. Also this. If you truly cannot stand someone and you know that their posting always irritates you, go ahead and put them on ignore. If I irritate you, I'm sorry that you can't put me on ignore due to my IK status, hopefully it's radium code that can be fixed one day. Alas I cannot do anything about people quoting those folks, but nothing's ever perfect. *probably due to the immense weight lifted of my shoulders after going through a near death trauma recently
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Sep 17, 2021 21:34
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haveblue posted:Mercury is way denser than water so 8 pounds of it occupies far less volume You're not thinking quite big enough. How many lead weights can you swallow or cram up your rear end
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Sep 17, 2021 21:35
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bane mask golem posted:Yeah, agreed. This whole last year's been pretty confusing, and the reactions of agencies like the FDA (ie. not even discussing boosters this week) have only added to the fear and confusion. To be honest, it's pretty worrying that the CDC still has mixed messaging about N95 masks on its website. I can't imagine how many deaths have already been caused by trusted medical agencies telling people to wear a cloth mask or surgical mask, or telling vaccinated people not to wear masks, or telling people they don't need a booster shot. Dude trying to make a comparison to a loving prion disease shows you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. The actual symptoms of prion disease take years if not decades to develop, and when they do it progresses rapidly, as in within a month your dead. Prions are an absolute different classification of disease that does not correlate to any other disease the people get. Half the issue in this thread is people making absolute hot take bullshit about stuff they have no knowledge or experience with. The worst of it is people reading bullshit from journalists or even nate silver who don't know anything about what they are doing. And we already know long term covid issues, it fucks your heart kidneys and lungs hard. However it's not like chicken pox, or polio which are able to insert them themselves into dna and be activated later in life. We know the general viral structure of this disease, and it's similar to Sars for Christ sakes. Covid is a coronavirus, something that people did catch well before this. It's just a coronavirus that we specifically did not have immunity for, and it's spike proteins are able to invade our cells extremely effectively.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:36
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idk why they are still rationing it if there is no more shortage. Reeks of protestantism. If it would help an obese person it would also help a thin person.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:36
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Dude trying to make a comparison to a loving prion disease shows you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. The actual symptoms of prion disease take years if not decades to develop, and when they do it progresses rapidly, as in within a month your dead. Prions are an absolute different classification of disease that does not correlate to any other disease the people get. Half the issue in this thread is people making absolute hot take bullshit about stuff they have no knowledge or experience with. The worst of it is people reading bullshit from journalists or even nate silver who don't know anything about what they are doing. As abrasive as UCS Hellmaker tends to be when he weighs in, I would strongly encourage posters here to take note of what he says. He's deeply entrenched on the front lines of all this poo poo and an exceedingly good barometer of just how hosed right now our healthcare workers are, and how much they are hurting. And he still has time to come in here and try to clarify poo poo for laypeople. So thanks again for wading in and offering your POV.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:38
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And an example of it loving your hearts, we have seen documented evidence of it, and people that get covid and recover have been show to have significant drops in ejection fractions of their hearts. Whole parts of one patients heart were effectively dead when he recovered from covid recently at my hospital. And kidney damage isn't even a guess or hypothesis, the patients that get covid have extremely reduced gfi and many are in danger of being on dialysis because of it.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:40
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Professor Beetus posted:I hate to do this but since things are getting a little bit spicy why don't put a pin in this for now? It's off base. I actually attend these meetings regularly. It is the normal format for public meetings, and the setup is not remotely confusing. The FDA does not have the ability to prevent people misrepresenting their work in bad faith. OddObserver posted:Broadly, I kinda wonder about that. Most cases involving public comments actually seem to turn out to be undemocratic, since they give advantage to people with lots of time on their hands (see e.g. all the "grassroots anti-CRT protests").... and, frankly, the point of the FDA is to make professional decisions, so what you and me think isn't likely to be very material? It's a (very complex and extensive) legal obligation applicable to almost all regulatory activities. for example, here's a recent EPA docket I grabbed at random. The EPA is going to be required to open the proposed rule for comments for a set period of time. The final rule on this docket is going to have to respond to all of the comments that are related to the subject. Every part of this is dictated by a combination of precedents. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 21:41
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The real root of the problem here in my view is that the FDA (and many in the medical/epidemiology field) are myopically focused on preventing "severe" Covid when they should be giving a significant amount of consideration towards preventing mild and moderate cases. I say that because there is plentiful data out there showing that mild and moderate cases of Covid can really wreck people. Mild cases include anything up to shortness of breath and abnormal x-rays, and moderate includes anything up to needing hospitalization for low SpO2. To make that worse we don't yet know exactly what triggers Long Covid, but we do know it happens to some with mild and moderate cases and can happen to people of all ages. If a 3rd shot improves protection against mild and moderate cases (as the Israeli and Pfizer data pretty definitively shows) it would alleviate a whole lot of suffering.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:42
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You only saw a small level of how bad it is Dr butts, like that tangent was just scratching the surface. Words cannot describe how bad it is, and I'm only in an area of the country that isn't in severe outbreaks. I cannot imagine how people in the south or high impact areas are feeling right now. Again I encourage people go read goon doc, there's healthcare stories and many of us have vented there. You have literally no idea what it's like and we cannot convey how much suffering we all are going through. Stop giving us pizza parties, give me a loving raise and 2 weeks off.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:44
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Vasukhani posted:idk why they are still rationing it if there is no more shortage. Reeks of protestantism. If it would help an obese person it would also help a thin person. Same issue with limiting it only to people with "occupational high risk" vs just high risk. They even asked the chair that question exactly and he said "it's a can of worms" and deflected while admitting that yes a high risk person is at high risk and should probably have a booster, but they can't figure out who is really high risk so they'd rather put an artificial and arbitrary gate of "only people with a high risk job" since it's easy to verify your occupation. Despite the science saying high risk should boost it seems the committee would rather not follow it and instead insert arbitrary and opinionated restrictions.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:44
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I really appreciate the Israeli definition of severe including some that we would call I think mild!
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Sep 17, 2021 21:45
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Shifty Pony posted:The real root of the problem here in my view is that the FDA (and many in the medical/epidemiology field) are myopically focused on preventing "severe" Covid when they should be giving a significant amount of consideration towards preventing mild and moderate cases. You really need to stop talking about mild and moderate. Needing oxygen and some lung x-ray abnormalities can mean anything and there's a massive difference in the progression of the disease. Nor does it take into account the super pneumonia that can or cannot occur which the shots actually don't do anything for. It's a coin flip that goes up if there is massive full lung infiltration from covid, which iss a serious infection. Having low spo2 can mean you at 90% which is lol. Having spo2 that craters to goddamn 75 is what is bad. Being on a nasal cannula is not life threatening, being on high flow and bipap is going to be lasting harm. Again, the misinformation being spread in this thread is the same poo poo endlessly by people that do not understand anything about medicine, pathophysiology of disease, and want to scream into a void because they refuse to actually listen to anyone but armchair loving morons.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:49
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Having low spo2 can mean you at 90% which is lol. Having spo2 that craters to goddamn 75 is what is bad. Being on a nasal cannula is not life threatening, being on high flow and bipap is going to be lasting harm. But won't a third vaccine ALSO reduce the chances of even needing any type of medical intervention? This seems irrelevant with an over supply of vaccines. Or does it literally not do anything?
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Sep 17, 2021 21:54
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UCS Hellmaker posted:You really need to stop talking about mild and moderate. Needing oxygen and some lung x-ray abnormalities can mean anything and there's a massive difference in the progression of the disease. Nor does it take into account the super pneumonia that can or cannot occur which the shots actually don't do anything for. It's a coin flip that goes up if there is massive full lung infiltration from covid, which iss a serious infection. From the data Israel and Pfizer presented it is clear that boosters would help stop even people getting to the 90% SpO2 stage, and that there is almost no risk of mycarditis or other complications. In addition we have already secured ample supply of boosters for the entire population. It appears like a simple decision to reduce the risk of all forms of illness by approving boosters for everyone. It will reduce people who get hit with a simple overnight ER visit (which can still cost thousands of dollars) and it will reduce people who would deteriorate further or even die. I really cannot understand any argument not to approve boosters given this information.
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Sep 17, 2021 21:54
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Vasukhani posted:But won't a third vaccine ALSO reduce the chances of even needing any type of medical intervention? This seems irrelevant with an over supply of vaccines. He hasn't made one single comment about boosters itt that I've seen
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Sep 17, 2021 21:55
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It seems like if the US is too weak/primitive/ delayed by religious fundamentalism to successfully take measures for public health, they should at least allow people to exercise their "choice" and get more vaccines. since they won't be used by the fundamentalist states anyway. Or give them to poorer countries. There basically is a moral imperative to force vaccines right now at gun point if they arent going to allow free access or give them to other places.
wisconsingreg fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 21:58
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Epic High Five posted:No more of this, please. k, just drink a gallon of milk a day for a week or two then. It's bulk season, baby!
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Sep 17, 2021 22:00
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UCS Hellmaker posted:You really need to stop talking about mild and moderate. Needing oxygen and some lung x-ray abnormalities can mean anything and there's a massive difference in the progression of the disease. Nor does it take into account the super pneumonia that can or cannot occur which the shots actually don't do anything for. It's a coin flip that goes up if there is massive full lung infiltration from covid, which iss a serious infection. 90% last year meant going to the ER m8. Infrastructure failing doesn't magically move that to a you're fine categorization.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:00
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I am very concerned that the exact same arguments and reasoning the committee just upheld to deny boosters can and will be used to delay or stop EUA approval of the vaccine for children. How can it be that both "we only need boosted protection for older people and high risk occupations" and "we need to protect children and people of all ages" are true? Aren't these decisions at complete odds with each other? I'm left with far more questions and concerns after this advisory meeting vote.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:00
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Vasukhani posted:It seems like if the US is too weak/primitive/ delayed by religious fundamentalism to successfully take measures for public health, they should at least allow people to exercise their "choice" and get more vaccines. since they won't be used by the fundamentalist states anyway. Or give them to power countries. There basically is a moral imperative to force vaccines right now at gun point. what Also you keep continually bringing up "protestantism" and "religious fundamentalism" and I have no idea what that has to do with any of this except in a very very indirect way.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:02
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poll plane variant posted:He hasn't made one single comment about boosters itt that I've seen Because I haven't, because it's not the focus of anything I'm talking about but he doesn't give a poo poo because he wants to beat a dead horse. My whole point with all of this is the disease itself and the stuff that is being spread in this very thread that is wrong but instead we have people that want to slam posts about poo poo the government does without listening or reading posts by people that want to talk about the actual disease. Because it's not about covid, it's about government inaction to them
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Sep 17, 2021 22:02
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100% the worst outcome is throwing out vaccines, but I do think that more effort (from all countries, but the US seems especially bad) should be put towards shipping out excess vaccines. Most of the world is still at the point where demand far outstrips supply.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:03
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I'm not sure where the religious aspect really factors in, you've got white evangelical protestants with like <50% uptake and catholics with almost as much as atheists, both groups that ostensibly have what they consider to be probable cause to refuse citing their faith. There's a lot of movements that use the trappings of the old ways but trying to predict their behavior taking them at their word isn't gonna get you very good results.Omnikin posted:k, just drink a gallon of milk a day for a week or two then. It's bulk season, baby! Careful with this, mention GOMAD too much and the spirit of the mid-aughts bodybuilding.com forums will arise and we will be arguing about how many days there are in a week
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Sep 17, 2021 22:04
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:90% last year meant going to the ER m8. Infrastructure failing doesn't magically move that to a you're fine categorization. Most people never realize they hit 90 percent when they were moving around, they just felt weak and short of breath ie a bad flu. Being at 90 at rest and dropping to the low 80s however they noticed, or when even short movement dropped them to the 70s. But again please keep telling me, someone who works ems, worked in an emergency department during covid, and works in an icu exactly how this poo poo works and why my training, schooling and actual experience is wrong
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Sep 17, 2021 22:05
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So was there an explanation for why the FDA didn't find the Israeli data persuasive?
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Sep 17, 2021 22:07
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Epic High Five posted:I'm not sure where the religious aspect really factors in, you've got white evangelical protestants with like <50% uptake and catholics with almost as much as atheists, both groups that ostensibly have what they consider to be probable cause to refuse citing their faith. There's a lot of movements that use the trappings of the old ways but trying to predict their behavior taking them at their word isn't gonna get you very good results. American ideology is based in anti-science beliefs about choice and free will. These are founded in early modern ideas about souls. Americans see themselves as individual actors who must make the correct choice (an anti-political idea) as opposed to elements of the machine that is the community. This whole experience is showing how obsolete individualism is wisconsingreg fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 22:07
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Most people never realize they hit 90 percent when they were moving around, they just felt weak and short of breath ie a bad flu. Being at 90 at rest and dropping to the low 80s however they noticed, or when even short movement dropped them to the 70s. But again please keep telling me, someone who works ems, worked in an emergency department during covid, and works in an icu exactly how this poo poo works and why my training, schooling and actual experience is wrong As the guy who's seen a ton of covid cases, and is in the medical field, you're telling us getting covid is bad and we want to avoid even "mild" cases and that everyone getting it twice a year as part of "living with the virus" is a bad plan? Regardless of how weird and ignorant people are about the specifics.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:08
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Most people never realize they hit 90 percent when they were moving around, they just felt weak and short of breath ie a bad flu. Being at 90 at rest and dropping to the low 80s however they noticed, or when even short movement dropped them to the 70s. But again please keep telling me, someone who works ems, worked in an emergency department during covid, and works in an icu exactly how this poo poo works and why my training, schooling and actual experience is wrong The 90 guidance was at rest and an oz of Prevention is worth a pounding of your mom. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 17, 2021 22:09
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I don't wanna put words in UCS Hellmaker's mouth but it sounds like they absolutely dgaf about the booster conversation because they're extremely burnt out and frustrated and all the booster chat is navel-gazing from posters who have a very limited understanding of the actual disease, disease progression, situation in hospitals etc.Vasukhani posted:American ideology is based in anti-science beliefs about choice and free will. These are founded in early modern ideas. Americans see themselves as individual actors who must make the correct choice (an anti-political idea) as opposed to elements of the machine that is the community. This doesn't really make any sense except in somehow leading to the conclusion you've expressed several times that authoritarian regimes are handling COVID correctly while liberal democracies in the US and Europe are not.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:10
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:The 90 guidance was at rest and an oz of Prevention is worth a pounding of your mom. How the gently caress is this appropriate or acceptable, how is this even ok in dnd? Seriously this poo poo is why no one that knows this stuff will actively participate
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Sep 17, 2021 22:11
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