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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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Fritz the Horse posted:This doesn't really make any sense except in somehow leading to the conclusion you've expressed several times that authoritarian regimes are handling COVID correctly while liberal democracies in the US and Europe are not. Why is getting the COVID vaccine a choice?
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Sep 17, 2021 22:12
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Vasukhani posted:Why is getting the COVID vaccine a choice? Because our country is filled with jackasses, you cannot begin to comprend how stupid people are until you work in medicine. It shouldn't be a choice, and theirs a reason why many vaccines aren't or weren't until wasps made an issue of it because it causes autism in my kids!!!!! Like seriously that fucker should have been disbarred and forced at gunpoint to retract and apologize for his lovely loving article to sell his snakeoil. It's one of the most distractive things done to modern medicine alongside oxycodone
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Sep 17, 2021 22:14
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Because our country is filled with jackasses, you cannot begin to comprend how stupid people are until you work in medicine. It shouldn't be a choice, and theirs a reason why many vaccines aren't or weren't until wasps made an issue of it because it causes autism in my kids!!!!! This is what I don't get. AFAIK the Polio vaccine was essentially forced on people, literally federal vaccinators walking around. But even on lib and lefty spaces suggesting that with the COVID vacs means I "am not respecting bodily autonomy"
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Sep 17, 2021 22:18
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If you're referring to Wakefield, he did most of his work in the UK and did lose his license. The problem is that the response was too slow and limited, and other people were also funding him- and had financial incentives to pick up where he left off. More broadly, although Wakefield was particularly harmful, the antivaxx movement and the incentives involved predate him.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:19
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Because our country is filled with jackasses, you cannot begin to comprend how stupid people are until you work in medicine. It shouldn't be a choice, and theirs a reason why many vaccines aren't or weren't until wasps made an issue of it because it causes autism in my kids!!!!! Another guy with a name and address who gets to live his life prosperously and peacefully and who will die thinking he did everything right.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:19
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Vasukhani posted:American ideology is based in anti-science beliefs about choice and free will. These are founded in early modern ideas. Americans see themselves as individual actors who must make the correct choice (an anti-political idea) as opposed to elements of the machine that is the community. I'm not opposed to the idea that the American national religion is psychotic individualism, I just don't think religion it's where the divide is. The most glaring example of Protestant brain poisoning I see right now is the cult of work's response to people not working jobs that COVID pushed over the line to intolerable Fallom posted:So was there an explanation for why the FDA didn't find the Israeli data persuasive? This was just an advisory committee sending a decision to the FDA itself wasn't it? I expect an actual report of their reasoning will come out once they formalize it, at least I'd HOPE that one will. UCS Hellmaker posted:How the gently caress is this appropriate or acceptable, how is this even ok in dnd? Seriously this poo poo is why no one that knows this stuff will actively participate It's not, of course, it's been dealt with
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Sep 17, 2021 22:20
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Vasukhani posted:Why is getting the COVID vaccine a choice? Partly because you need an enforcement mechanism to mandate vaccines. China is severely restricting access to public services to try to get people vaccinated, for example. The US is trying to go through OSHA. I mean, you've expressed support for vaccination at gunpoint. I humbly submit that martial law and vaccination by threat of violence will not work very well except in the most totalitarian of states.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:23
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poll plane variant posted:Another guy with a name and address who gets to live his life prosperously and peacefully and who will die thinking he did everything right. Uh no, Wakefield did it because he was trying to discredit those vaccines in order to sell his own and make money. He actively went full hog in because he realized he was chained to the train he took off the tracks and lost his license and was fined I believed. He actively was discredited. He knows he lied through his teeth, his articles were fully falsified. He did it for monetary gain and without any thoughts he was right. There's literally hundreds of books and information about this.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:23
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Fritz the Horse posted:Partly because you need an enforcement mechanism to mandate vaccines. China is severely restricting access to public services to try to get people vaccinated, for example. The US is trying to go through OSHA. The US has a coercive apparatus larger than any "totalitarian" state on earth. And its no more threat of violence than you're "threatened by violence" to pay your taxes.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:26
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Vasukhani posted:This is what I don't get. AFAIK the Polio vaccine was essentially forced on people, literally federal vaccinators walking around. But even on lib and lefty spaces suggesting that with the COVID vacs means I "am not respecting bodily autonomy" Polio was in a different time, and polio was something that honestly none of us have experience or the visceral knowledge of. Polio hit across everything, and would leave someone crippled for life. It's something that was an underlying fear for everyone because most people knew someone on an iron lung or with leg braces from it. And it was a time when people believed doctors and not Sharon on social media that lived at home and read Facebook 24/7
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Sep 17, 2021 22:26
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Uh no, Wakefield did it because he was trying to discredit those vaccines in order to sell his own and make money. He actively went full hog in because he realized he was chained to the train he took off the tracks and lost his license and was fined I believed. He actively was discredited. He knows he lied through his teeth, his articles were fully falsified. He did it for monetary gain and without any thoughts he was right. That's what the fash think is right, to burn everything down to make a quick buck and have a quick laugh. What I was getting at is how hosed up it is that we let people like this just go about their days, show up as "expert talking heads" on mainstream news, etc. Kissinger style.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:27
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Uh no, Wakefield did it because he was trying to discredit those vaccines in order to sell his own and make money. He actively went full hog in because he realized he was chained to the train he took off the tracks and lost his license and was fined I believed. He actively was discredited. He knows he lied through his teeth, his articles were fully falsified. He did it for monetary gain and without any thoughts he was right. I'll be summarizing and reviewing Deer's book on this, eventually, and if I can get a used copy, I may do Wakefield's book as well.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:28
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"Take this vaccine or we shoot you" is probably ineffective, but "take this vaccine or you're locked down and everyone else isn't" has been shown to be effective (and worst case people don't get vaccinated but you still significantly reduce how many people they infect) When one of the primary objections to pushing vaccines is that it's somehow ushering in an authoritarian state, making violence or even arrests the penalty for not getting the vaccine isn't exactly going to pacify the anti-vaxx crowd.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:29
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enki42 posted:"Take this vaccine or we shoot you" is probably ineffective, but "take this vaccine or you're locked down and everyone else isn't" has been shown to be effective (and worst case people don't get vaccinated but you still significantly reduce how many people they infect) I agree. But how exactly is that "you're locked down" part enforced?
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Sep 17, 2021 22:32
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Discendo Vox posted:I'll be summarizing and reviewing Deer's book on this, eventually, and if I can get a used copy, I may do Wakefield's book as well. Used sales just pass up value by offsetting primary sales. Just  that heaping pile of poo poo. Or borrow it from an academic library (and never return it).E: The thing that I never understood about Wakefield's paper is that it was utter poo poo with zero evidence even if it wasn't fraudulent. The lancet never should have published it in the first place, and it never should have received any academic attention. Stickman fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 22:33
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Vasukhani posted:I agree. But how exactly is that "you're locked down" part enforced? Standardized (hopefully non-forgeable) proof of vaccination, requirement that restaurants, large events, salons, whatever really (except probably grocery stores and things that are literally needed to survive) are required to validate that proof before allowing anyone in or face fines / closing. Same way it was rolled out in Israel, France, will be in most of Canada, probably a bunch of other places I'm not aware of. It's not a literal "can't leave your house" lockdown, but still significantly restricted, and a full "self-isolate until the pandemic is over" is probably getting too close to "papers please" to be feasible anywhere in the western world.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:34
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enki42 posted:Standardized (hopefully non-forgeable) proof of vaccination, requirement that restaurants, large events, salons, whatever really (except probably grocery stores and things that are literally needed to survive) are required to validate that proof before allowing anyone in. Same way it was rolled out in Israel, France, will be in most of Canada, probably a bunch of other places I'm not aware of. In the US, people who refuse to comply with present mandates like masks, will just walk in anyway unless physically stopped, which is something most places are unable or unwilling to actually accomplish, and which carries huge liability. How do you stop someone from simply physically entering and demanding service? Long guns and rifle plates are the increasingly ubiquitous daily attire of this crowd as well, which complicates it further. Israel is probably uniquely equipped to do this because iirc armed security is a huge makework program there.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:35
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Most people never realize they hit 90 percent when they were moving around, they just felt weak and short of breath ie a bad flu. Being at 90 at rest and dropping to the low 80s however they noticed, or when even short movement dropped them to the 70s. But again please keep telling me, someone who works ems, worked in an emergency department during covid, and works in an icu exactly how this poo poo works and why my training, schooling and actual experience is wrong You are a CNA last I checked the HCW thread, stop acting like you're some authority on the matter
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Sep 17, 2021 22:36
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lil poopendorfer posted:You are a CNA last I checked the HCW thread, stop acting like you're some authority on the matter This is some pretty incredible bullshit.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:37
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lil poopendorfer posted:You are a CNA last I checked the HCW thread, stop acting like you're some authority on the matter The guy has physically seen a bunch of vital signs and covid cases and that's about all you need to know here.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:38
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poll plane variant posted:In the US, people who refuse to comply with present mandates like masks, will just walk in anyway unless physically stopped, which is something most places are unable or unwilling to actually accomplish, and which carries huge liability. How do you stop someone from simply physically entering and demanding service? Long guns and rifle plates are the increasingly ubiquitous daily attire of this crowd as well, which complicates it further. How frequent is this though? I don't doubt it happens (it happens to some degree everywhere), but the percentage of the unvaccinated that are going to threaten violence so they can get their precious appetizers definitely can't be everyone who's left unvaccinated, it's a very small sliver. Most places in Canada have said it's fine to call 911 in that circumstance, although I don't have a lot of confidence in cops enforcing vaccine requirements. Just like with mask mandates, if you have them and have some degree of enforcement that still stops short of getting the true crazies to comply, it's definitely better than nothing and it's not that hard to get to 95% compliance so long it has *some* teeth to it. I've literally seen one person throughout the pandemic that was fully unmasked in a public indoor setting. A lot more dicknoses for sure, but almost never more than 1 per time I go to the grocery store.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:39
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Stickman posted:Used sales just pass up value by offsetting primary sales. Just I forget the specific circumstances (and will look into it), but as a general rule the prominent outlets (lancet, bmj, and especially science and especially fuckin' nature) that are less specialized or are highly centralized and public facing often have worse effective scrutiny on peer review. This doesn't make the contents of articles in those outlets automatically worthless, but I actually wind up applying more scrutiny toward them than field-specific ones. Part of this is just because they've got more active media/communications and so their output gets more coverage and promotion, but there are also institutional issues. I've got an effortpost lying around somewhere on the review of academic literature, I'll try to dig it up sometime.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:41
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can someone please inform me what the risk is involving prescribing boosters when the benefits may not be needed? Like what negative event is the FDA preventing by limiting boosters?
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Sep 17, 2021 22:42
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lil poopendorfer posted:You are a CNA last I checked the HCW thread, stop acting like you're some authority on the matter Thorn Wishes Talon posted:This is some pretty incredible bullshit. Couldn't have said it better myself, leave that poo poo where it belongs.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:43
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enki42 posted:How frequent is this though? I don't doubt it happens (it happens to some degree everywhere), but the percentage of the unvaccinated that are going to threaten violence so they can get their precious appetizers definitely can't be everyone who's left unvaccinated, it's a very small sliver. Most places in Canada have said it's fine to call 911 in that circumstance, although I don't have a lot of confidence in cops enforcing vaccine requirements. Our security forces are politically unreliable and will not typically fire on or otherwise get physical with whites, especially conservative-presenting whites, even to protect high-level nuclear secrets etc. If you are white you can just walk in anywhere and do whatever you want.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:45
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lil poopendorfer posted:You are a CNA last I checked the HCW thread, stop acting like you're some authority on the matter I mean seriously right, do they realize how many posts we've read on this subject? Get on our level, loser.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:45
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enki42 posted:How frequent is this though? I don't doubt it happens (it happens to some degree everywhere), but the percentage of the unvaccinated that are going to threaten violence so they can get their precious appetizers definitely can't be everyone who's left unvaccinated, it's a very small sliver. Most places in Canada have said it's fine to call 911 in that circumstance, although I don't have a lot of confidence in cops enforcing vaccine requirements. You're working at McDonalds for $14/hr, you hate your job because it's horrible in every way. Yet another maskless 300lb dude with a MAGA hat on and no mask walks up to the counter and starts ordering. What do you do? A: Ask him to put on a mask and risk a confrontation. B: Get your manager, who will go through this same list from the pov of someone making $21/hr C: Take the order so he leaves. This is still our world, so you have knowledge of the fights and shootings that have happened to retail and food service workers over masking confrontations.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:46
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^^^ My point is the answer can be C and still lead to both significant uptake in vaccinations and significant reductions in unvaccinated people at non-essential public spaces. Saying it's not worth doing unless every single unvaccinated person never eats at a restaurant again is making perfect the enemy of good.poll plane variant posted:Our security forces are politically unreliable and will not typically fire on or otherwise get physical with whites, especially conservative-presenting whites, even to protect high-level nuclear secrets etc. If you are white you can just walk in anywhere and do whatever you want. Yeah for sure I don't disagree with you. What I'm saying is even in a circumstance where you let them come in, that's still 90% of people who aren't going to go to the lengths where they ignore orders, unless the U.S. is so different from Canada that there would be a critical mass of people who would just flatly ignore mandates. enki42 fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Sep 17, 2021 |
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Sep 17, 2021 22:47
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lil poopendorfer posted:You are a CNA last I checked the HCW thread, stop acting like you're some authority on the matter thanks for absolutely taking the bait, and not realizing that there is much more to someone then what they post here :clap: Sidenote, I have a bachelors in a relevant field you loving idiot, and more training then the bullshit your trying to pull
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Sep 17, 2021 22:47
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enki42 posted:Standardized (hopefully non-forgeable) proof of vaccination, requirement that restaurants, large events, salons, whatever really (except probably grocery stores and things that are literally needed to survive) are required to validate that proof before allowing anyone in or face fines / closing. Same way it was rolled out in Israel, France, will be in most of Canada, probably a bunch of other places I'm not aware of. The great part is the paper's please part can now be done completely discreetly with the willing participation of the citizen due to tech. God was a dream of good government -- and we have the technology to build god today.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:49
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poll plane variant posted:The guy has physically seen a bunch of vital signs and covid cases and that's about all you need to know here. There's more than one? God help him
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Sep 17, 2021 22:50
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Vasukhani posted:The great part is the paper's please part can now be done completely discreetly with the willing participation of the citizen due to tech. God was a dream of good government -- and we have the technology to build god today. If you really want to combine every single anti-vaxx conspiracy together, you might as well inject the tech along with the vaccines.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:50
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enki42 posted:Yeah for sure I don't disagree with you. What I'm saying is even in a circumstance where you let them come in, that's still 90% of people who aren't going to go to the lengths where they ignore orders, unless the U.S. is so different from Canada that there would be a critical mass of people who would just flatly ignore mandates. It is, in fact, that different from Canada. Fascists find nothing more amusing than disobeying a rule which is not enforced immediately with lethal force. They see tormenting the weak as a moral imperative and more importantly extremely funny. Many, many Americans are simply sadists.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:51
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goethe.cx posted:There's more than one? God help him 
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Sep 17, 2021 22:51
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A big flaming stink posted:can someone please inform me what the risk is involving prescribing boosters when the benefits may not be needed? Like what negative event is the FDA preventing by limiting boosters? They never addressed this directly in the entire meeting. The voting members in their rationale kept talking about theoreticals like, "well does this mean we have to boost every 6 months?" or just fell back on "I need more data". No one seemed to make a simple cost-benefit analysis of the risk of boosting vs. the impact of reducing disease and transmission.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:52
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poll plane variant posted:It is, in fact, that different from Canada. Fascists find nothing more amusing than disobeying a rule which is not enforced immediately with lethal force. They see tormenting the weak as a moral imperative and more importantly extremely funny. Many, many Americans are simply sadists. I dunno, this just feels like "we can't be perfect so why even try". I guess at the end of the day I can't really say, but it doesn't seem like the differences between our two countries are SO extreme. We have nazis here too, even some of your more prominent ones are from Canada.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:53
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enki42 posted:I dunno, this just feels like "we can't be perfect so why even try". I guess at the end of the day I can't really say, but it doesn't seem like the differences between our two countries are SO extreme. We have nazis here too, even some of your more prominent ones are from Canada. We should use overwhelming physical force including a proliferation of armor-defeating weapons in the hands of private individuals. We can be perfect, but it will not be bloodless. edit: I forgot my actual point here so here it is - this isn't going to stop until we see a few of these chuds dead on the floor of a McDonalds getting laughed at on the evening news.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:54
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goethe.cx posted:There's more than one? God help him  lmao
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Sep 17, 2021 22:55
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poll plane variant posted:We should use overwhelming physical force including a proliferation of armor-defeating weapons in the hands of private individuals. We can be perfect, but it will not be bloodless. https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/17/1038392877/new-york-tourists-attack-hostess-restaurant-vaccine quote:Three tourists were arrested after allegedly assaulting a restaurant hostess in Manhattan after she asked for proof of their vaccination status before they could be seated. Footage obtained by NBC New York shows an intense scuffle outside of Carmine's Italian restaurant on the Upper West Side on Thursday evening. The three tourists, who are from Texas, are alleged to have begun repeatedly punching a 22-year-old hostess after she asked them to show proof they were vaccinated before entering the restaurant, in accordance with local regulations.
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Sep 17, 2021 22:55
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mod sassinator posted:They never addressed this directly in the entire meeting. The voting members in their rationale kept talking about theoreticals like, "well does this mean we have to boost every 6 months?" or just fell back on "I need more data". No one seemed to make a simple cost-benefit analysis of the risk of boosting vs. the impact of reducing disease and transmission. So there isn't actually a potential negative event being prevented? There's no legit medical risk that over-prescribing boosters presents?
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Sep 17, 2021 22:55
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