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Kerbtree posted:Has that stupid chia shite died off yet, or are drive prices still inflated? chia is now worth 1/6th of its introductory price drive prices are back to about the same as where they were before the chia poo poo (and have been for a while now)
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Aug 26, 2021 14:14
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There's currently a wave of SSD drives being silently changed out with different components: Crucial P2 WD SN550 Samsung 970 Evo plus The P2 is completely unconscionable, switching in QLC in a drive originally reviewed as TLC is complete poo poo. Maybe you could give it a pass on a bottom-performance budget drive -- they did the same thing with 1 & 2 TB sizes of the BX500 a while back and it was like, eh, the only use for that drive is bulk storage for someone going all-ssd or a boomer internet-pc anyways. But the P2 was positioned as value performance. The WD is a definite downgrade, but ehhh... not the worst imaginable. Not enough to bump it from the budget king position it's in. The write speed is still easily enough to handle something like decrypting a steam pre-load or other normal tasks. Restoring a full system image might take 30 minutes instead of 15, which is annoying but still vastly better than QLC drives that would take hours. But anyone that would be impacted on a frequent basis by that change, I'd say should be looking at a better drive with more endurance on the warranty in the first place. OTOH the samsung might be considered an upgrade for many users?  More than doubling the SLC cache at the expense of slower writes to TLC sounds pretty good to me. Also they at least changed the serial number.
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Aug 26, 2021 19:22
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When I was buying a 2 TB M.2 SSD, the Kingston KC2500 was only about $10-ish more than the WD SN550 and seemingly comes with DDR3L DRAM cache on board, so that might be an option for 2TB buyers. The 1 TB version seemed less competitive with the price of the 1 TB SN550, though.
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Aug 29, 2021 11:04
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SSD prices have been coming down, and there are a number of options at or near the SN550's price now. The PNY XLR8 CS3030 is just $100 for a TB on Amazon right now and is a better performer than the SN550 on paper, for one example.
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Aug 29, 2021 11:23
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:SSD prices have been coming down, and there are a number of options at or near the SN550's price now. The PNY XLR8 CS3030 is just $100 for a TB on Amazon right now and is a better performer than the SN550 on paper, for one example. so look at price history -- is the drive consistently at that price? On any given day there may or may not be a drive on sale that is a much better deal. If you are an expert who can look at the specs of drives and reliably sort good from bad, and wait until next weekend if there isn't a good sale on, go with god and make your own choices. OTOH anandtech recommends the QLC Inland Platinum over everything as their budget drive. Maybe it's time we abandon the anti-QLC bias at the low end of the market? Personally I can count on a shop teacher's hand the number of times I'd have been really affected by QLC in large writes.
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Aug 29, 2021 14:44
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Also the PNY XLR8 CS3030 had it's warrantied drive endurance silently reduced by 80% earlier this year, and does not specify TLC in the data sheet. Just "3D Flash Memory" which could be anything. I cannot find any reports from someone who bought it post-change and specifically tested to determine QLC vs TLC. So if I did buy that drive, the first thing I'd do would be write a few 100 GB and see what happens.
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Aug 29, 2021 14:57
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God dammit. Are there any drives that haven't had their components quietly swapped out for inferior ones after reviews?
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Aug 29, 2021 15:06
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:God dammit. Are there any drives that haven't had their components quietly swapped out for inferior ones after reviews? Intel Optane DC-P5800X /s
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Aug 29, 2021 15:11
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Klyith posted:Also the PNY XLR8 CS3030 had it's warrantied drive endurance silently reduced by 80% earlier this year, and does not specify TLC in the data sheet. Just "3D Flash Memory" which could be anything. And yet, for a budget drive, even that 80% reduction is still almost certainly fine: You'd need to be writing 200GB/day 365d/yr for 5 years to hit the 1TB's 360TBW limit (and even then, every time TBW limits have been tested they've been shown to be very conservative unless you're Intel and you simply turn writes off entirely when it hits the magic number). So for a "budget" drive I'm not seeing that as a problem. I mean, the whole "let the reviewers see a drive with one set of parts and then let's swap in cheaper ones later" is still irritating, but the write endurance hit shouldn't be a problem for much of anyone who actually buys those drives.
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Aug 29, 2021 15:41
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IMO it's not just irritating, it fraudulent. I won't buy from a company which does that. Unfortunately that list keeps getting longer.
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Aug 29, 2021 16:01
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DrDork posted:And yet, for a budget drive, even that 80% reduction is still almost certainly fine: You'd need to be writing 200GB/day 365d/yr for 5 years to hit the 1TB's 360TBW limit (and even then, every time TBW limits have been tested they've been shown to be very conservative unless you're Intel and you simply turn writes off entirely when it hits the magic number). So for a "budget" drive I'm not seeing that as a problem. Read the post again. Endurance doesn't matter, but QLC vs TLC does and that's the thing I am wondering if the change represents. 360 TBW for a 1TB drive is pretty QLC-ish. If you can definitively answer that, please do. It might be that they overspecced the endurance all along because they were confident that it never actually matters in practice. Then Chia happened and they were faced with people actually writing multiple TBs per day, so they decided to cut it way down. gently caress miners, fine. But that's a pretty optimistic reading when even quality brands like crucial are doing shenanigans. buffbus posted:IMO it's not just irritating, it fraudulent. I won't buy from a company which does that. Unfortunately that list keeps getting longer. Quite a few years ago Kingston did it, and for a while the OP had Kingston on the avoid list because of it. This time around it almost feels like a conspiracy by all the SSD makers: "If we all do it, they can't get mad at any of us!"
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Aug 29, 2021 16:27
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Klyith posted:Read the post again. Endurance doesn't matter, but QLC vs TLC does and that's the thing I am wondering if the change represents. 360 TBW for a 1TB drive is pretty QLC-ish. If you can definitively answer that, please do. I didn't think there was actually a question about it, though--the massive reduction in write tolerance (from what was clearly a TLC-based value to a value that's very much in line with other QLC drives--the 870 QVO 1TB also quotes a 360TBW limit, for example) combined with the replacement of the tech spec line from "TLC flash" to "3D Flash Memory" absolutely is them allowing themselves to use QLC. Given that they didn't change the part number/SKU, though, it'll be anyone's guess what's actually in a given drive, since as long as the read/write performance stays about the same, they're free to mix and match whatever they want in there based on what chips are made available to them at a given point in time. The Inland series of SSDs have done that for years precisely because it lets them keep the prices very low. I don't think this has much to do with Chia, given the above. Especially when every test on TLC flash has shown that you can get pretty reliable writes out of a TLC drive to at least 5x what the TBW limit is supposed to be--so we'd be expecting failures from a TLC-based PNY XLR8 CS3030 somewhere in the ~7,000TBW range. Not at 360TBW. I think your last point might be more accurate than we all care to admit: they've gotten away with these shenanigans before (as well as with stuff like motherboards), so they've collectively come to the conclusion that they can keep doing it because the minor loss in sales from people who pay attention enough to know what's going on is more than offset by the BOM savings (or the simple ability to have anything at all to sell--in today's hosed up supply chain world, it may be that continuing to source those TLC chips would have been far too expensive to continue selling at that price point at all).
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Aug 29, 2021 17:16
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https://www.extremetech.com/computing/326384-western-digital-pledges-transparency-will-replace-qlc-sn550-for-unhappy-buyers WD is offering to swap QLC SN550s for the original TLC version on request, so at least those who bought it before hearing about the downgrade can switch it out
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Aug 29, 2021 23:07
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Oh christ lol the SN550 switch was actually to QLC as well? The previous articles just sounded like slower flash chips, or less channel bandwidth to the flash. But 390MB/s on a 1TB drive is really fast for QLC though! I wonder if there's been some sort of improvement or new generation of QLC? Because that's way less dire than the sub-100MB/s write speeds that previous drives were known for. If it can sustain that for a long duration write, I wouldn't be all that put out owning a QLC drive. I guess that would explain why everyone seems to be doing that same switcheroo right now. Now I really want a western reviewer to actually get one of these new SN550s and test it out rather than 3rd-hand info translated from china. Because at least one thing doesn't add up: if the SN550 is QLC, why does it still have the same 12GB SLC cache size?
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Aug 29, 2021 23:38
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Klyith posted:This time around it almost feels like a conspiracy by all the SSD makers: "If we all do it, they can't get mad at any of us!" Wouldn't be the first time cartels have been a problem for PC components.
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Aug 30, 2021 01:22
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How do you tell if you got one of the changed ones? I just bought and installed one and am curious as to which version I got. As an unrelated question, is this the right thread to ask for USB flash drive recommendations? I had to use one for a Windows boot/installation and when I tried to turn it back into a normal drive it died on me.
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Aug 30, 2021 04:42
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Hyper Inferno posted:How do you tell if you got one of the changed ones? I just bought and installed one and am curious as to which version I got. extremely half-assed & unscientific, but should be definitive test: 1. put your new SN550 in a system with a 2nd SSD (sata is fine) 2. get crystaldiskmark, a basic HDD/SSD speed test program 3. In crystaldiskmark, select your SN550 in the drive dropdown and run the test "SEQ1M Q8T1" by pressing the green button with that label. (the green button labled "All" runs all tests, but we don't care about random performance now.) record your results with file -> save image. 4. turn off Windows Defender antivirus real-time protection temporarily 5. copy ~100GB from your 2nd SSD to the SN550. large files are better than a million tiny ones for this, so if you have mp3s or videos on the 2nd SSD those are good. many video games are large files but some aren't, so if using games look at the folder properties first. 6. watch the copy progress like a hawk 7. as soon as the copy is finished run that same test again in crystaldiskmark. this will show you the SN550's performance with the SLC cache for sure exhausted. record your results. If the write performance is still relatively high (600-800+ MB/s) you have the old version. quote:As an unrelated question, is this the right thread to ask for USB flash drive recommendations? I had to use one for a Windows boot/installation and when I tried to turn it back into a normal drive it died on me.
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Aug 30, 2021 05:42
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For the SN550 it's easy, use CrystalDiskInfo to check the firmware version The original version begins with 21 and the nerfed version begins with 23
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Aug 30, 2021 11:23
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:God dammit. Are there any drives that haven't had their components quietly swapped out for inferior ones after reviews? Maybe enterprise drives like PM983? Hopefully? No one looks at those tho. I think my 4TB M.2 PM983 has advertised TBW of 5400. Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Aug 30, 2021 |
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Aug 30, 2021 12:32
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Ihmemies posted:Maybe enterprise drives like PM983? Hopefully? No one looks at those tho. I think my 4TB M.2 PM983 has advertised TBW of 5400. Enterprise ones won't swap parts because there's all sorts of hilarious contractual stuff that enterprise customers use them for that would flip their poo poo out if that happened. But now you're paying $$$ for an enterprise drive when you could be paying $$ for a simply higher-tier consumer drive and end up with better performance at a lower cost anyhow. I don't like silent spec-swaps as much as the next guy, but at the same time, this is happening at the rather low end of the market where the loss in theoretical performance will never matter. So enough for this thread to probably start recommending other drives to people, but they're still good drives for mom and dad. Just a shame the companies decided to be shady fucks about it instead of just dropping a legit QLC line and letting people make an informed (or, well, less ignorant) choice.
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Aug 30, 2021 14:20
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repiv posted:For the SN550 it's easy, use CrystalDiskInfo to check the firmware version Cool, I just checked mine and it started with 21. I guess the stock hadn't been depleted of the older ones yet when I ordered it two weeks ago.
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Aug 30, 2021 15:21
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DrDork posted:Enterprise ones won't swap parts because there's all sorts of hilarious contractual stuff that enterprise customers use them for that would flip their poo poo out if that happened. But now you're paying $$$ for an enterprise drive when you could be paying $$ for a simply higher-tier consumer drive and end up with better performance at a lower cost anyhow. Thanks, that is reassuring to know! My M.2 PM983 was 550€ for 3.84TB. PCIE 3.0. So it is 143€/TB. Samsung 2TB consumer NVME's aren't really cheaper per TB, and I don't think they make 4TB consumer drives. At least that was the situation when I was looking for a larger NVME drive.
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Aug 31, 2021 18:08
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:God dammit. Are there any drives that haven't had their components quietly swapped out for inferior ones after reviews? intel explicitly told extremetech they have never pulled these shenanigans https://www.extremetech.com/computing/326521-crucial-responds-to-bait-and-switch-allegations-and-the-p2-ssd shame intel drives are "mediocre QLC for consumers" or "hilariously expensive datacenter stuff" with nothing in-between
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Sep 1, 2021 15:24
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repiv posted:intel explicitly told extremetech they have never pulled these shenanigans RIP Intel 750  Their
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Sep 1, 2021 15:56
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My Lenovo laptop rocks an old 1TB Intel 760 NVME drive (still TLC) and it’s plenty fast for me. I’ve felt zero desire to replace it. Shame Intel gave up that dream. https://www.anandtech.com/show/16890/sk-hynix-releases-2tb-version-of-gold-p31-ssd I didn’t see it in the thread so forgive me if everyone knew this already. SK Hynix finally released the wicked late 2TB option for the Gold P31. It’s even in stock on Amazon at the moment.
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Sep 1, 2021 16:33
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priznat posted:RIP Intel 750 Hey now, all my 750s are kicking rear end to this day. Fast as anything out there for normal stuff.
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Sep 1, 2021 17:41
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redeyes posted:Hey now, all my 750s are kicking rear end to this day. Fast as anything out there for normal stuff. Oh no I meant they stopped making them. They were (and are!) awesome drives. I have a stack of dead ones though because we abuse the poo poo out of drives at work, need to RMA them and see what they send as replacement (fingers crossed for 5800Xs! Not likely!)
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Sep 1, 2021 18:36
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Sony’s next update for the PS5 will finally enable the second drive slot. Finally drops tomorrow https://www.engadget.com/sony-ps-5-ssd-storage-expansion-firmware-update-ps4-remote-play-135032853.html
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Sep 15, 2021 03:20
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I still don’t believe ps5s are real cuz I’ve never seen one!
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Sep 15, 2021 03:28
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Adata is now selling their XPG Gammix S70 in a PS5-friendly form factor with a thin heat spreader instead of their previous massive, ineffective heatsink for $150 MSRP it seems: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093DP3X4H?tag=eurgam-df-us-20&th=1 That's a really good price for the speed, PS5 or no. Tweaktown reviewed it and liked it: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/9923/adata-xpg-gammix-s70-blade-2tb-ssd/index.html
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Sep 15, 2021 03:32
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How long until they replace all the critical parts with cheaper garbage though?
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Sep 15, 2021 12:42
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As soon as they get them reviewed by all the standard influencers on youtube.
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Sep 15, 2021 14:09
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Those really are good prices, especially with the gamer angle to it. Sad I think the same part switcheroo will happen
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Sep 17, 2021 18:14
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LaptopGun posted:Those really are good prices, especially with the gamer angle to it. Sad I think the same part switcheroo will happen Then just get it during the first month, I guess.  (Stupid capitalism!)
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Sep 17, 2021 22:18
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Well, as soon as they noticed people were buying it in droves, they rose the price to $170/$330 lmao
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Sep 18, 2021 00:19
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Well, as soon as they noticed people were buying it in droves, they rose the price to $170/$330 lmao Though for the PS5 thing, TBQH the real bandwidth (disregarding data compression) on the PS5 internal drive is ~5500 MB/s. And the XboSX is well less than that. So a lot of people are overbuying if they're getting WD SN850s or this new Adata. With that data point, IMO the Sabrent Rocket Q4 is a perfectly cromulent drive for a PS5 upgrade. It does 5000 MB/s so it's pretty much identical to the native performance a game will expect. And QLC doesn't matter at all for the purpose at hand.
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Sep 18, 2021 00:46
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Agreed, most people are overpaying, but the Blade at $150 was still a good deal. $170, less so. The Sabrent Rocket Q4 at $140 for a TB is also a good deal, but you'll probably want an aftermarket heatsink for the PS5 (sony recommends one, at least). The Corsair Force MP600 is also around $150 for 1TB, and it comes with a heatsink that just barely fits in the PS5 apparently. And I've tried to tell people that 5000 MB/s is all you really need, but everyone's going out and buying SN850s and 980 Pros anyway.
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Sep 18, 2021 01:06
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:but you'll probably want an aftermarket heatsink for the PS5 (sony recommends one, at least) Sony says to put the metal cover back on after installing a drive, which turns the drive bay into a tiny enclosed m.2 coffin. Almost certainly this is just because their FCC interference rating was with the cover on. So yeah I'm sure a heatsink (or at least a spreader with more W/mK than the sticker foil) is sorely needed, sticking a drive in there. Or you could not bother with a heatsink and leave the cover off. The drive bay is right near the fan intake, the whole area under the plastic shell is a duct for the fan, so it'll pick up plenty of incidental air movement. I'd lay even money that a drive with no heatsink & cover left off will be cooler than the official method.
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Sep 18, 2021 01:50
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Klyith posted:Though for the PS5 thing, TBQH the real bandwidth (disregarding data compression) on the PS5 internal drive is ~5500 MB/s. And the XboSX is well less than that. So a lot of people are overbuying if they're getting WD SN850s or this new Adata. I think Sony recommends the addon drive be faster than the internal one to compensate for the custom flash controller (or whatever, not gonna pretend I know how this works). From Cerny's presentation I think the implication was that the drive should be ~7000MB/s.  e:I don't remember if he gave a specific number actually. I did find this quote, where all he says is "a little extra speed": "We can hook up a drive with only two priority levels, definitely, but our custom I/O unit has to arbitrate the extra priorities - rather than the M.2 drive's flash controller - and so the M.2 drive needs a little extra speed to take care of issues arising from the different approach" Rinkles fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Sep 18, 2021 |
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Sep 18, 2021 02:17
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Sony's guidelines now they're actually shipping m.2 support just say the drive should read at 5500 MB/sec or better, so they've backed off a bit since Cerny's presentation
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Sep 18, 2021 02:51
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